Geralf's Messenger/Fume Spitter Question

2 posts / 0 new
Last post
Quick question.  If I control a Geralf's Messenger with no counters on it and it dies and comes back with a +1/+1 counter on it.  After it returns if I control a Fume Spitter and sacrifice it putting the counter on Geralf's Messenger, does he then have a +1/+1 and -1/-1 counter on him or does he lose the +1/+1/ counter so he could die once more and come back again with a counter the second time?  I'm confused because some peopel are saying that is why players are playing Fume Spitter, to reset Geralf's Messenger to get undying twice and he basically does 6 lose of life instead of just 4.  Is this correct, please help! 

Yes - when state based actions are checked, one of the actions is to cancel out +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters until only one kind out of the two exists on the permanent. So if Geralf's Messenger has a +1/+1 counter on him, and then you put a -1/-1 counter on him, the next time SBAs are checked (almost immediately) both types of counters will be removed.

However, it's important to note that both do exist for a short period (until that SBA is checked), so it's possible to not bring the Messenger back even via -1/-1 counters - for example, if he's a 4/3 (thanks to the +1/+1 counter) and you Black Sun's Zenith for x=3, he'll be sent to the graveyard at the same time as the counters would get cancelled out - meaning the last time he was on the battlefield he still had the +1/+1 counter, meaning undying wouldn't trigger.
I'm all about super-control in MTG. If you're able to stop my shenanigans, then there aren't enough shenanigans. Lv 1 Judge Current Decklists Sweeping Beauty (Casual) A Vision of Clones (Casual) Coming soon... more decks! :-O
Sign In to post comments