Question about the armies of Iuz

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I did a search on the forum but didn't found anything related so here's the question:

Reading at the sourcebook "Iuz the Evil" and "Living Greyhawk Gazzetteer" I was surprised to see that the armies of Iuz are only of 30.000 at 591 AC. Now, I know Iuz took heavy losses at the Great Northern Crusade, but then again isn't that number a bit low? Even without accounting the fiends (thanks Rao), it seems to me that the numbers are too low.

Anyone can illuminate me? I know that as a DM I can make the numbers that I want, but then I was just wondering.

The units listed in Iuz the Evil only include those at specific strongholds.  Being unable to imagine a chaotic evil nation concentrating its forces, I take this to mean there are significantly more forces scattered throughout the empire.
Yes, that's right, but the "30,000" figure is from the Gazzetteer, and it clearly says that this are the total estimated forces. I mentioned the "Iuz the Evil" sourcebook as a comparative to say that the number of 30,000 seems low even with the losses.

Now I think that the total should be more like 50-60,000 total, considering that Iuz has many fronts open and forces streched thin to cover all the territory.
The Living Greyhawk Gazetteer has more elves in Nyrond, Ahlissa, Keoland, Furyondy, and the Duchy of Ulek then it has in Celene.  Ahlissa must be the center of halfling culture in the Flaneass with all of them running around.  Zief has nearly 3 times the number of orcs as the Bone March.  Nyrond has more half-orcs than Iuz. 

All kinds of funky demographics in that book.  I wouldn't give too much credence to how many soldiers it says Iuz has at his disposal.
Hummm, good point. I never read all the gazetteer, only the entries for the Empire of Iuz and Furyondy. Well, as always I will use the information that suits me, and discard the other.

Thanks for the help OleOneEye!
I never really looked at the numbers in the Gazeteer, but in Iuz the Evil and The Marklands books, set before the Great Crusade, Iuz had about 450,000 orcs, about 150,000 hobgoblins, and bunches of other followers. His armies were very nearly 1 million, but it was scattered from the Vesve to Bone March. He lost a lot of his muscle when the Bandit Kingdom went rogue and abandoned him, along with a lot of barbarians. There's still half a million evil things running around up north, they just aren't all following Iuz any more. 
Well, I read those two books, and by adding the troops, the armies of Iuz pre-Great Crusade couldn't be larger than 100,000 total. The numbers you say are far too large. With an army that size, even scattered, Iuz would have conquered Furyondy completely, even without the demon hordes. Maybe you are taking into account the non combatants (women and children), but even then seems too much. If i have the time i will do the maths an post it there.
I'm paraphrasing accual published material. I'm looking for the exact source myself, but I know I've seen in a published sourcebook the kinds of numbers I mentioned. Just in the Horned Society there's 55,000 nonhumans (Iuz the Evil, page 36.) On page 17 same book, there's 135,000 orcs, 20,000 goblins, 4000 hobgoblins, 1000 gnoll, 1000 hill giants, 500 fomorians, and 1500 hill trolls just in the Lands of Iuz.
The sourcebook does tell on page 80 why his huge army can't overrun Furyondy. The biggest reasons listed are that 2nd edition priests of Iuz don't have healing sphere but the good-guy priests do; the good guys have a lot better supply lines; Iuz's troops are often using inferior equipment compared to Furyondians; the bad guys are attacking fortified locations; but most important the forces of Iuz are C-H-A-O-T-I-C. They fight each other, kill each other, refused to leave the warm caves and strongholds during the winter of 583-584, on and on.  A lot of his troops have been used as occupation forces, not as attack troops. Basically, they're slavedrivers and prison guards.

A lot of that information would be out of date if the game is set in 591, though. Parts of the Shield Lands and most of Furyondy have been recovered, the Bandit Kingdoms have abandoned Iuz, several groups of barbarians abandoned him, he lost most of the fiends from the Crook of Rao, etc. etc.

But back to the original posting... I think you said that you mainly just read the Gazetteer listings for Furyondy and the Lands of Iuz. Read the listings for The Shield Lands, Horned Society, Bandit Kingdoms, the Vesve forest, Felreev forest, and some other areas. They don't just give estimates of troop numbers, they explain why those areas ally with, or are at war with, Iuz. If you have or can get some older 2nd edition stuff, like The Marklands, Iuz the Evil, From the Ashes box set, or the Wars box set then you can draw up a more accurate picture of Iuz's armies. Or a more confusing picture, if you notice the discrepancies between books.
I read Iuz the Evil and the Marklands, as I said on my previous post. And as I said before, I think the totals of population that the book "Iuz the Evil" gives includes non-combatants as women and children. Even in humanoid populations a great percentage of it won't be warriors, so as exposed before, the numbers are too big.

The entry at the Gazetteer for the Empire of Iuz includes all the subject territories, and the total population is of 700,000 (which includes obviously the non combatants) and then on the description it says the armies Iuz has at his disposal are of 30,000 (all combatants). Even accepting that the numbers of the Gazetteer are a bit of in other entries as OleOneEye wisely said, it is clear that the entry for population is for the total population. not just soldiers.

Then, on Iuz the Evil is exactly the same, the numbers on the description of the territories are for total population, not just soldiers. And then there's a chapter on military forces that summarizes the forces of some garrisons, but not all of them. But accepting a gross sum of three times the numbers given on the garrisons added, it's more in the 100,000 troops, pre-Crusade.
Whenever possible, ignore the stats in the Gazetteer in favor of what you can deduce from reading earlier sourcebooks.  The Gazetteer was just written with different priorities in mind.  If you want to increase the size of Iuz's armies, as I actually have done in my own campaigns, you can just say that the Old One had been doing new recruiting, perhaps with a new plan introduced by one of his other allies.  It would be quite a threat to Furyondy, and the other bordering lands, and inside the Fellreev Forest in particular I doubt there were many losses to the humanoid and monster populations in the wars.  New tribes could have established dominance there, perhaps even under the leadership of old enemies of Iuz out of the Horned Society.  They might try to cut into his influence, or sabotage the discipline of his armies during battles he gets into with Furyondy, etc..

This said, it is crucial to distinguish between "typical" orcs and hobgoblins, who don't have any class levels, and Iuz's elite forces.  How many common soldiers does he have, and how many elites?  If you want to, you can flesh this out, along with creating a stable of NPC's to represent parties of evil adventurers and mercenaries who serve him, or lieutenants in his armies.  Iuz will not be wasting his time.  He will be gathering NEW armies, especially to make up for his loss of fiends to the Crook of Rao.

I'd love to hear how things go in your campaign.      
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