Quick Question About Who Gains Control of...

7 posts / 0 new
Last post
The other day I was playing a casual game with a couple of friends. One had a It That Betrays while I had a creature with Persist. He attacked with it, and I had to sacrifice the creature with Persist. Now does it come under my control? (because of the Persist ability) Or does it go under his control because of  It That Betrays ability?
I'm pretty sure that as the player owning the card, you get to choose what order the abilities trigger on the stack.  As such you could order them in such a way as to have it come back in under your control.

I could be wrong though since I'm not up to date on all the layers.

@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

The abilities would go onto the stack at the same time, so they are put there in APNAP order. Since he's attacking with It That Betrays, it is your opponent's turn, so his trigger goes on the stack first, then yours on top. Your trigger (persist) will resolve first, thus the creature returns under your control, and your opponent won't get anything. If it is your turn instead when the persist creature dies, the order would be reversed and your opponent would get the creature (without the -1/-1 counter).

Straight up rules question like this belong in the Rules Q&A forum, for future reference.
When triggered abilities from different players need to go on the stack at the same time, they do so in APNAP order: Active Player, Non-Active Player. So first, the active player (who must be the controller of It That Betrays, since he's attacking) puts his triggered ability on the stack, then the non-active player (you) puts yours on the stack. Since your trigger is on top, it will resolve first. Your opponent's triggered ability will do nothing when it resolves, because the creature card will not be in the graveyard at that time.

Standard Answer to all 5E rules questions: "Ask your DM."

When triggered abilities from different players need to go on the stack at the same time, they do so in APNAP order: Active Player, Non-Active Player. So first, the active player (who must be the controller of It That Betrays, since he's attacking) puts his triggered ability on the stack, then the non-active player (you) puts yours on the stack. Since your trigger is on top, it will resolve first. Your opponent's triggered ability will do nothing when it resolves, because the creature card will not be in the graveyard at that time.


For It That Betrays it actually doesn't matter where the permanent ends up due to the sacrifice. What does matter is, that it left the zone it went to before its trigger resolved. Just a clarification.
When triggered abilities from different players need to go on the stack at the same time, they do so in APNAP order: Active Player, Non-Active Player. So first, the active player (who must be the controller of It That Betrays, since he's attacking) puts his triggered ability on the stack, then the non-active player (you) puts yours on the stack. Since your trigger is on top, it will resolve first. Your opponent's triggered ability will do nothing when it resolves, because the creature card will not be in the graveyard at that time.


For It That Betrays it actually doesn't matter where the permanent ends up due to the sacrifice. What does matter is, that it left the zone it went to before its trigger resolved. Just a clarification.

actually, it does matter where the card goes
eg. It That Betrays' trigger couldn't find a Progenitus that was sacrificed (unless he was sent to a public zone for some reason like the commander replacement or he was affected by a Sudden Spoiling)
400.7d Abilities that trigger when an object moves from one zone to another (for example, "When Rancor is put into a graveyard from the battlefield") can find the new object that it became in the zone it moved to when the ability triggered, if that zone is a public zone.

but Novacat is correct because of this rule
603.6c Leaves-the-battlefield abilities trigger when a permanent moves from the battlefield to another zone, or when a phased-in permanent leaves the game because its owner leaves the game. These are written as, but aren’t limited to, "When [this object] leaves the battlefield, . . ." or "Whenever [something] is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, . . . ." An ability that attempts to do something to the card that left the battlefield checks for it only in the first zone that it went to. An ability that triggers when a card is put into a certain zone "from anywhere" is never treated as a leaves-the-battlefield ability, even if an object is put into that zone from the battlefield.

DCI Certified Judge & Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJ
DJ Vortex

DCI Certified Judge since July 13, 2013
DCI #5209514320


My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out

 

Taking offers on my set of unopened limited edition full art judge foil basic lands, message me if interested.
 

I'm pretty sure that as the player owning the card, you get to choose what order the abilities trigger on the stack.  As such you could order them in such a way as to have it come back in under your control.



This answer would have been correct if we were talking about Prevention and/or Replacement effects.
Persist and Betrays' are triggered abilities, producing one-shot effects.


609.1. (...) When a spell, activated ability, or triggered ability resolves,
it may create one or more one-shot or continuous effects...

610.1. A one-shot effect does something just once and doesn’t have a duration.
Examples include dealing damage (...), and moving an object from one zone to another.

616.1. If two or more replacement and/or prevention effects
are attempting to modify the way an event affects an object or player,
the affected object’s controller (...) or the affected player chooses one to apply...

   

It's not Logic, it's Magic!