Poll: When making an attack, who rolls the dice?

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Who rolls the dice?

a) The attacker always rolls.  (4e style)
b) The defender always rolls.
c) Both the attacker and the defender roll (opposed rolls). 
d) Depends on the attack (Basic attack rolls, saves vs spells).
e) The DM always rolls.
f) The player always rolls.

[sblock totals as of post 82]
a) 13
b) 
c) 2
d) 7
e)
f) 14



Yuffie) -3
Cait Sith) -2 +1

[/sblock]

It's fairly easy to switch between systems.  Just add or substract 10 to the non-roller's defense/attack.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

a
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f

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

The attacker always rolls.
has it really come to this
has it really come to this



What's wrong with this question?

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

a.


As a DM I always make my rolls behind a screen.  This is because I like to run tough combat that keeps the players on the edge of their seats.  Rolling behind the screen allows me to fudge the results a bit in players' favor so that I keep them worried about their chances of survival without actually killing them.
While a poll could be nice, it's better done in another format.

What do people think about c) opposed rolls?  Do you like them or dislike them?  Do your feelings ever change based on circumstances of the attack in question?
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
has it really come to this



What's wrong with this question?



its just obvious that 'a' is going to win the poll, so its like asking 'should fighters be in 5e?'
While a poll could be nice, it's better done in another format.

What do people think about c) opposed rolls?  Do you like them or dislike them?  Do your feelings ever change based on circumstances of the attack in question?



i think they suck, and if they are 5e ill really hate it. im guessing they are since youre asking it and youve seen it
has it really come to this



What's wrong with this question?



its just obvious that 'a' is not only going to win the poll, but even if it didnt, in 5e the attacker will roll to hit no matter what the poll says. its like a poll saying 'do you get a bucket of fried chicken with 5e?', its pointless


I thought you said this was just a retro-fest, and that 4e ideas wouldn't ever show up?
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
has it really come to this



What's wrong with this question?



its just obvious that 'a' is not only going to win the poll, but even if it didnt, in 5e the attacker will roll to hit no matter what the poll says. its like a poll saying 'do you get a bucket of fried chicken with 5e?', its pointless


I thought you said this was just a retro-fest, and that 4e ideas wouldn't ever show up?



like you didnt roll to hit in 1e? are you being serious. wait dont answer that mand, i dont give a crap
While a poll could be nice, it's better done in another format.

What do people think about c) opposed rolls?  Do you like them or dislike them?  Do your feelings ever change based on circumstances of the attack in question?



I dislike them because they add another potentially too-swing element to the combat.  If you're having a colossal run of bad luck on attack rolls, that's bad enough.  If you're having a colossal run of bad luck on attacks *and* your defenses are in the gutter as well, that's a recipe for no-fun.

It also (roughly) doubles the number of die rolls and computations necessary, which would fit my definition of 'too much effort for too little payoff'.


like you didnt roll to hit in 1e? are you being serious



Spells rarely, if ever, required attack rolls; if there was a roll involved, the target of the spell always made it.
duh lola. the poll is about ATTACKS or are you too snarky to freaking read?
duh lola. the poll is about ATTACKS



And if I am casting a damaging or otherwise dangerous spell at an opponent, I am attacking them.
duh lola. the poll is about ATTACKS



And if I am casting a damaging or otherwise dangerous spell at an opponent, I am attacking them.



its hard to keep responding to you since i have you blocked but no, if youre not rolling to hit im not calling it an attack, especially in the context of a poll asking who rolls the attack. in 1e spells the answer is nobody rolls to attack, therefore it is pointless
It is, in fact, very relevant.  The question is, who rolls the dice?  In 1e, it was a mix.  Sometimes the attacker rolled the dice, sometimes the defender did.  This continued up until 4e, where the attacker rolled all the dice.
has it really come to this



What's wrong with this question?



its just obvious that 'a' is going to win the poll, so its like asking 'should fighters be in 5e?'

Well.. since this mostly is the 4e forms, it probably will.

But i feel the player rolling all the dice has alot of merit.

Not only does it let the player feel like he's the one in control of his destiny, it off-loads some work from the DM.  Thus, it would make the game more fun (for the players at any rate), and faster.

As far as crits, rolling a 1 on defense means you got crit.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Depends... 

If we get dangerous attacks and spells such as level drain, attribute drain, disintegrate etc I vote "d", since I like important rolls to be made by defender.

If we only get attacks that turns into a balanced blur such as damage, 1 round stuns, Slowed save ends etc, I vote for "a" so the battles run faster.
  


The Character Initiative


Every time you abuse the system you enforce limitations.
Every time the system is limited we lose options.
Breaking an RPG is like cheating in a computer game.
As a DM you are the punkbuster of your table.
Dare to say no to abusers.
Make players build characters, not characters out of builds.




Well.. since this mostly is the 4e forms, it probably will.

But i feel the player rolling all the dice has alot of merit.

Not only does it let the player feel like he's the one in control of his destiny, it off-loads some work from the DM.  Thus, it would make the game more fun (for the players at any rate), and faster.

As far as crits, rolling a 1 on defense means you got crit.



The DM is a player too, and players like to roll dice.


I like the idea of having players roll as many dice as possible, but if you're asking the DM to play totally diceless, you're going to find yourself with very, very, very few DMs.
The difference between madness and genius is determined only by degrees of success.
Primarily f.  Secondarily d.

There are a few times when I would actually like to roll the attack or save/defense as the DM, as a tension building event, but in the vast majority of cases having the other players always roll is simply more efficient and more exciting for them.

Somnia, the Evanescent Plane -- A 3-set Block
Set 1 — Somnia
Set 2 — TBD
Set 3 — TBD
Planeswalker's Guide to Somnia

Build Around This
A weekly MTG Cards and Combos forum game.
Build Around This #1 - Sage's Starfish Wish
BAT #1 was built using the Legacy format with Spiny Starfish, Sage's Knowledge, and Make a Wish. Winner: Dilleux_Lepaire with Fishy Starfishies. Runner-Up: JBTM
I like the idea of having players roll as many dice as possible, but if you're asking the DM to play totally diceless, you're going to find yourself with very, very, very few DMs.


Note this poll is "when making an attack" -- there are many more instances than the d20 attack roll where the DM rolls dice (the nearest next dice roll often being damage).

Somnia, the Evanescent Plane -- A 3-set Block
Set 1 — Somnia
Set 2 — TBD
Set 3 — TBD
Planeswalker's Guide to Somnia

Build Around This
A weekly MTG Cards and Combos forum game.
Build Around This #1 - Sage's Starfish Wish
BAT #1 was built using the Legacy format with Spiny Starfish, Sage's Knowledge, and Make a Wish. Winner: Dilleux_Lepaire with Fishy Starfishies. Runner-Up: JBTM
Well.. since this mostly is the 4e forms, it probably will.

But i feel the player rolling all the dice has alot of merit.

Not only does it let the player feel like he's the one in control of his destiny, it off-loads some work from the DM.  Thus, it would make the game more fun (for the players at any rate), and faster.

As far as crits, rolling a 1 on defense means you got crit.

The DM is a player too, and players like to roll dice.


I like the idea of having players roll as many dice as possible, but if you're asking the DM to play totally diceless, you're going to find yourself with very, very, very few DMs.

A bit of a hyperbole, but probably true for some.  (including yourself)

Other's might appreciate the lighter load.  (i know i would).

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I favor the idea of a roll off.  A nice and simple roll off.  Which if you look at the math is incredibly easy to do in both 3.5 and 4e.  That little 10 in front of your AC and defenses, go ahead and replace that 10 with a die roll.  Thats what all of the defenses are in 4e and AC is in 3.5, a check where it is assumed that you always take a ten. You always take a ten because you are always allowed to and statistically that's eventually going to become a better option than rolling all the time.  However I dig games of chance and would love to see a formally supported roll off mechanic in place.  So for this poll I have to go with C.
duh lola. the poll is about ATTACKS



And if I am casting a damaging or otherwise dangerous spell at an opponent, I am attacking them.



its hard to keep responding to you since i have you blocked but no, if youre not rolling to hit im not calling it an attack, especially in the context of a poll asking who rolls the attack. in 1e spells the answer is nobody rolls to attack, therefore it is pointless


Now you're just being intentionally antagonistic.  Even in 1e, someone rolls to see if a spell works or not.  In 4e that's called an attack, in 1e it's called a save.  The label is irrelevant to the question of which person at the table is doing something when it happens.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
I'm not sure which version I like the most...

Players cheat on die rolls. Sometimes it's as silly as the "magic hand" and they explain that if they let others see the die roll, it screws up their mojo and the magic hand doesn't work anymore... More often, players just roll when it's not their turn and keep whatever die roll they like. So players rolling all the time is not that great of an option.

DM are about as bad. Way too often, these guys are control freaks and will roll their die behind the screen ignoring the result. The die roll is just to make players think it's random. These are some of the worst types of dungeon masters and anything in the rules that let them get away with this is bad.   

But if I had to chose, I would chose the classical attack rolls and saving throws. As a side note, didn't the game designers already announce that this would be the case?


@frothsof: There's an arabic saying that applies to you. If what you have to say is less important than silence, then don't say it.
d

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a
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- ) Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right.
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quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?[/quote]
Players cheat on die rolls. Sometimes it's as silly as the "magic hand" and they explain that if they let others see the die roll, it screws up their mojo and the magic hand doesn't work anymore... More often, players just roll when it's not their turn and keep whatever die roll they like. So players rolling all the time is not that great of an option.

DM are about as bad. Way too often, these guys are control freaks and will roll their die behind the screen ignoring the result. The die roll is just to make players think it's random. These are some of the worst types of dungeon masters and anything in the rules that let them get away with this is bad.  



This is why, at my games, all die rolls are public, including my own.

Players cheat on die rolls. Sometimes it's as silly as the "magic hand" and they explain that if they let others see the die roll, it screws up their mojo and the magic hand doesn't work anymore... More often, players just roll when it's not their turn and keep whatever die roll they like. So players rolling all the time is not that great of an option.



I don't think it's fair to assume that every player is as... decietful as the ones you seem to know.
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Players cheat on die rolls. Sometimes it's as silly as the "magic hand" and they explain that if they let others see the die roll, it screws up their mojo and the magic hand doesn't work anymore... More often, players just roll when it's not their turn and keep whatever die roll they like. So players rolling all the time is not that great of an option.



I don't think it's fair to assume that every player is as... decietful as the ones you seem to know.

Agreed.  Although as rampant as these examples are invoked, it makes me wonder sometimes... and sorry more times.

Regardless, if these are the types of people that others are playing with, there are far greater issues than where you roll your dice.  The problem is obviously with who is rolling them.  Cheaters would be looking for a new game really quick if they sat at my table. 

Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept. Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new. Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept. Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept. Default module =/= Core mechanic.
Tough one.

I like rolling to attack (attack roll),

but i like rolling to defend too (saving throw). 

So my answer would depend on the type of attacks (Melee/Ranged attack vs Spells) 

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Attacker rolls

It's more intutitive, it cuts down on complexity, and it lets you crit with a fireball. 
I could definitely get behind F.  The only 'problem' is that you don't get around the fact the DM needs to roll dice for damage anyway if it hits, so it's simpler for the DM to have a chart with all the player's ACs and then roll for both.  

Opposed rolls are really time consuming and slow the game up.  I've played in systems with them, and it's really, really, really annoying.   
Attacker rolls

It's more intutitive, it cuts down on complexity, and it lets you crit with a fireball. 


+1 and QFT.
a

Attacker should roll since you can roll damage at the same time.  Plus if you know the defenses of whatever you are hitting (if you are the DM and have player cards, or if you are a player and the monster defenses are known), you can skip the whole "does 24 AC hit?" step and go right to "orc #3 takes 15 damage".  Huge time savings.

Honestly I think they could easily publish rules for both ways, it's just a question of if you add 10 or add d20...
I want consistent treatment. If the spellcaster is assumed to be so good that it's up to other creatures to dodge the effects of his spells (target rolls saving throw) then the weapon-swinger should be assumed to be so good that it's up to other creatures to dodge his weapon (target rolls saving throw).

But in general I favor the person whose creature is making an attack is the one to roll the dice and the person whose creature is being attacked is the one who determines if the attack hits. That's because the former person is in a better position and has more incentive to track attack bonuses, while the latter is in a better position and has more incentive to track defense bonuses.
"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
Whoever is taking an action should be the one to roll. If the DM requires a secret check roll, he should tell the player to roll the d20 but not tell him what it's for. The DM should have all the player's secret-rollable bonuses on a chart. Spot, Listen, Sense Motive, Ref and Fort saves. Anything missing from that list?

Also I don't like the idea of spells as attacks by default. Automatic hits are part of being magic.
A generally, but I also quite like F. Helps keep players engaged.

I don't like the magic/attack split, seems like a pointless mechanical difference just to be different. 
Who rolls the dice?

a) The attacker always rolls.  (4e style)
b) The defender always rolls.
c) Both the attacker and the defender roll (opposed rolls). 
d) Depends on the attack (Basic attack rolls, saves vs spells).
e) The DM always rolls.
f) The player always rolls.

[sblock totals as of post 35]
a) 4
b) 
c) 1
d) 4
e)
f) 3
[/sblock] 



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