Master of Alara-UBR control

32 posts / 0 new
Last post
Well after stop-whining decided to teach me a lesson, I have changed up my first quality deck. It's modern legal, mostly cuz I like the art after modern better I think I may just take this to a tourney!

Note:this is not the first time I've posted this list, but it's had several serious changes, and I'd like to hear from y'all again

The Conceited King

--creatures--
4x gatekeeper of malakir
1x wurmcoil engine

--spells--
4x lightning bolt
4x thoughtseize
4x geth's verdict
4x terminate
4x mana leak
3x slagstorm
4x jace beleren
2x liliana Vess
1x Karn liberated
2x nicol bolas, planeswalker

--land--
4x blood crypt
4x watery grave
4x crumbling necropolis
4x dragonskull summit
2x drowned catacombs
3x creeping tar pit
2x scalding tarn

--sideboard--
3x grafdigger's cage
2x inquistion of kozilek
4x surgical extraction
4x rune snag
1x damnation
1x phyrexian obliterator

Ok some odd choices right? geth's verdict? Bolas? 4x Jace 1.0? Only 23 land?! This man done lost his mind right?

Nope!

Ok first, i have this IRL. It's been playtested...ALOT. It works. Here's the breakdown how.

Gatekeepers. Trip black can be rough in tricolor, but my mana base is robust and deep black. This is never an issue. I get a 2 power body, u lose something. I love to drop after I sweep your tokens or whatever aggro chaff u run.
Wurmcoil-recent addition. Late game threat, gets me life back from early aggro and my shocklands.

Bolt-obvious
Tseize-same as bolt
Verdict-with this I have 8 sac effects. I've tried blade...dismember, gftt. It's all blah. I could go counter/sweeper, but my MAIN concern is creature based attack. This stops hexproof, regen, and pro People can hate on verdict all they want. It's so solid here. I LOVE this card. Color me crazy
Leak-obvious
Slagstorm-over damnation for 2 reasons. Cheaper CMC and walker hits. Used to run 4, but found 3 was plenty.
Jace- really, little jace. And 4 to boot! Here's why. First, jtms is banned. Realizing I really need draw, I need something. I prefer the steady dig here vs forbidden alchemy or whatever cuz its all I got, I'm out of room. He allows me to run retarded amounts of hate. And I don't even mind his +2. Crazy? I know! Why? Cuz of...
Liliana Vess and Karn Liberated!
Her discard is just great with jace +2. By the time they are both in play, opponent is low on cards and I typically have caused them to draw once to my 4. I can live with that. And with Karn out, his +4 can potentially turn their draw into my advantage if I restart the game. Yes it's a looooong set up, but this deck generates allllllll kinds of time.
Bolas-8 mana, doesn't "end the game right now" why waste the slots? Cuz when he drops, the game is pretty much already over and I ENJOY doing it to opponents. His ult is retarded good. His +3 can kill enchantments! Something UBR can never do (minor I know, but it's just so freakin cool!) pop 2 lands then kick ultimate. Most just concede.

Land-obvious, tar pit is great anti-walker

Sb is where the beauty lies.

Cage-cuz persist/undying/gravecrawler and bloodghast all make me cry.
IoQ and snag give me 10 anti-control cards, 14 if u count extraction, which I do. Extract leak from another control deck. Or a snapcaster. It's HILARIOUS! Blows their tempo like smoke in a hurricane.
Damnation-idk..had one? Kills bigger stuff? Sure why not
Obliterator-anti RDW and pretty much any deck that is heavy on turning cards sideways and not much removal.

I love this deck

Was thinking about swapping damnation for evacuation? Could be tech. Resets my gatekeepers, slows them down...but 5 is realllll steep. Idk. Here she is again! Hope y'all don't hate too much! ;) adios muchos!!! AYE YI YI YI YI!!!

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/12.jpg)

Jace Beleren is ok but with second ability of Jace, the Mind Sculptor would be better or maybe even the first and third ability of Jace, Memory Adept would be best especially when you combo those abilities with Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind.
with Jace, Memory Adept and Niv-Mizzet together you draw three cards, deal three damage, put 2 cards back, tap Niv to draw again for one damage. so its like draw 2 cards and deal 4 damage a turn. that adds up fast. or with the memory adept you get to 7 loyalty then play niv-mizzet and then use the 3rd ability to draw 20 cards while dealing 20 damage.
I think I'd still prefer Jace Beleren to Jace, Memory Adept in this deck - even though you can draw cards til the cows come home with Jace V3, that 5 mana cost is actually restrictive (if you play him on turn 5 you're leaving no counter mana up for any serious threats your opponent could play). Jace, the Mind Sculptor is obviously the best of the trio, but a lot of players avoid him in casual due to how good he is, and I think that's fine.

Most of the cards seem fine, but to make a few points:

*Only 4 counterspells - it's the one of the best parts about playing blue, and against combo decks having only 4 Leaks may cause issues (though Thoughtseize certainly helps).
*No 4 drops, so your mana curve is certainly not smooth - there are plenty of awesome four drops, be they more control options (ie. Cryptic Command, Rewind, Foresee) or more wincons (Abyssal Persecutor, Bloodline Keeper).
*2 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker - I love him too, he's awesome - but at 8 mana you really only want one.
*Only 23 lands - you're playing a heavy control deck topping out at 8 mana. You want 25-26, and then some card draw/filtering (like scry) to hit your bombs. Sensei's Divining Top is awesome (but expensive), Preordain, Ponder, Brainstorm, Impulse and Lim-Dul's Vault are all solid draw options.
*Skinrender or Flametongue Kavu might be better options than Gatekeeper of Malakir just because they're so less restrictive in terms of cost.
*No Cruel Ultimatum makes me sad. :-(

PS - out of curiosity, does anyone actually know how to link Lim-Dul's Vault? 
I'm all about super-control in MTG. If you're able to stop my shenanigans, then there aren't enough shenanigans. Lv 1 Judge Current Decklists Sweeping Beauty (Casual) A Vision of Clones (Casual) Coming soon... more decks! :-O
well Thoughtseize is a great card....especially when you combo it with Extirpate makes it easy when you get rid of one of there win conditions or at least one of there combo cards...........
Some kickback answers:

Jtms is BANNED! That's why he's not played. Jace 3.0, as Jason said, is cost prohibitive. That leaves 3.
Jace is how I get around not having draw spells cuz i have zero room.
ponder and preordain- banned
flametongue kavu-nice, but can't hit hexproof. Trip black is not an issue. Neither is quad for oblit. Deck never has an issue.
No 4 drops-that's where jtms was b4 ban hammer. Now it's bleak and desolate. Besides, I don't really need to curve perfectly. My main spells cost 1 or 2 mana.
Vs combo/control and my lack of main board counters-it's called g2/3, and the tech is in the sideboard ;)
Nivvy is sweet, but too costly

The land-all I can say is build it and play it yourself. Most control decks need to drop land every turn for their plays and countermagic. This deck is NOT built like that. I need 2 land to start. Fine with 23 land. Then I just need to stall and draw. Once I hit 3, which is typically t3 statistically, I get my draw engine jace, and then with 2 a turn, I find either land to grow or spells to stall. It just works. Cant explain it. My thinking is that for conventional control, u need the land. But maybe not always!
No ultimatum cuz I have little need for the cards, life, or creature return. Conversely, I don't care about their life total, they should be low on cards, and should have zero creatures by the time I play it.
I could drop a Bolas...would net me a land or I could go back to 3 liliana or 4 slagstorms...hmm

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/12.jpg)

Some kickback answers: Jtms is BANNED! That's why he's not played. Jace 3.0, as Jason said, is cost prohibitive. That leaves 3. Jace is how I get around not having draw spells cuz i have zero room. ponder and preordain- banned [c]




true these cards are banned but this was never meant to be tournament legal right? since this is a casual deck area....... if it was meant to be legal deck then i take back everything i said
I'm keeping it modern legal just in case I do take it to a tourney. Plus, i don't like the look of the older cards, haha!

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/12.jpg)

Phyrexian Crusader tech? Alternate win condition against those enchantment heavy/lifegain decks, can block a whole lot of threats well (especially persist) and resistant to removal.
My forum good deeds. Fortunately, left unpunished:
Show
"Incidentally, everytime you post in of these (mine or anyone else's) you have really great advice." -Tigerguy786 "Thanks Stop-Whining, your suggestions have been gold." -RedRollinS "You are probably the best person who has explained a certain concept to me so far, thank you VERY much for the information, it helps me out a ton. I can't wait to play this deck and use some cards for a deck of my own. Cheers!" -SpaceLincoln "In short, you good sir, are made of win advice. And I am actually going to be taking pretty much all of it." -jeremyc13
phyrexian Crusader over phyrexian obliterator. U have good points. Lower power, but unless it says "6" in the right hand column, dismember eats it regardless. It is resistant to bolt and path to exile, does give me a third win con in infect...hmm. It could work. Id honestly have to playtest for the feel. Obliterator is just so darn sexy tho! As for win cons, I have had an infinite life gain go off on me. It was painfully slow, but I actually used jace 1 to grind him out of a library. Just controlled the board till I did it. But the 3rd win in infect is not to be laughed at. Hmm.
The question is simple:which one covers a greater depth of responses? I honestly don't know.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/12.jpg)

You can always put both in the SB. Most people will board out some creature removal against your deck after G1. Probably too many slots. I will say that if I'm running an infinite life combo, I'm running big E or somethingless dramatic to ensure it's you who ends up decked and not I. Also, you definitely do not want to drop slagstorm when obliterator is out. No such qualms with crusader. 

I will endorse Cryptic Command, but the UUU looks troublesome for your land to handle in a timely fashion. Despite protests to the contrary, I recall you suffering from mana screw in the past. Even if you don't have the opportunity to counter, it's a cantripping unsummon or sleep effect as their turn ends. I think the versatility could aid you. 

Familiar's Ruse is quite interesting with Gatekeeper. It would basically 'require' you to run Clique and/or Snappy though, so you'd be moving towards U/B prominently. Granted, I think your R is pulling the least weight anyways. 

 
My forum good deeds. Fortunately, left unpunished:
Show
"Incidentally, everytime you post in of these (mine or anyone else's) you have really great advice." -Tigerguy786 "Thanks Stop-Whining, your suggestions have been gold." -RedRollinS "You are probably the best person who has explained a certain concept to me so far, thank you VERY much for the information, it helps me out a ton. I can't wait to play this deck and use some cards for a deck of my own. Cheers!" -SpaceLincoln "In short, you good sir, are made of win advice. And I am actually going to be taking pretty much all of it." -jeremyc13
Many of those cards are great. I think the trip for CCommand is too rough for me to pull. The mana base as is now is far more geared for black. Yes, I used to suffer from mana screw, but I wasn't running any shocklands. That changed everything. I like familiar's ruse alot, but you are right, I would need some type of flash creature to ensure I have a way to pay the additional cost. It also means I have to have mana up, which means I need to change the way I play/build and up the land count, something I'm not prepared to do. Plus, I'm against running anything that is dealin with faeries or elves! Makes my inner gamer upset! Haha!

Red is doing the least, so to speak, but I do love what it provides nonetheless. I do like how the crusader is resilient to my main sweeper and won't make me sac perms like hitting an obliterator will...I still think the only way to know for sure is playtesting.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/12.jpg)

So playtesting is going EXTREMLY well vs...well everything. But modern is a very vast format. What am I still weak to that's not a total fringe deck? I'm trying to prepare for most possible/popular decks, but it's tough. Control is a hard nut to crack when facing such diverse threats. Any thoughts?

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/12.jpg)

Honestly- the deck has a bad manabase (they are all good land cards, but fairly incoherent together), and it has a great dependency on your opponents playing creatures worth spot removing or spells that can get ruined by Leak. The frustrating bit though is that the deck is essentially dead to card advantage, since most functions are just 1f1s.
IMAGE(http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af108/acatan/sigwynzermancopy.png) Signature by IMAGE(http://www.poke-amph.com/heartgoldsoulsilver/sprites/258.png)
Why do you feel the mana base is lacking? It tests perfectly fine to me. The CiPT lands are offset by shocks, and most time my tempo isn't bothered by missing out. Going 1 for 1 is the point really. It's all designed to stall while the walkers comes out and do work. Main deck is for creature builds, which are most common in the format. Going 1 for 1 there is ok by me, plus I can sweep. This doesn't play like a typical control deck looking to eek out CA and play a bomb ASAP. Not my goal. Vs control...well u have the sb, which janks control just fine. Leak and snag stop spells all through the curve, save a t5 1CMC spell or something...but by then who really cares? Bigger/badder cards are out. The extractions handle more counters/combo pieces, and the extra discard picks up whatever else it needs.
I must say again I'm a bit miffed at why you think the land base is bad. Now obviously it's my deck so I've sleeved it and tested it out so I know what it does/doesn't do. My question is why it's bad to you and what drew you to that conclusion.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/12.jpg)

While it's still struggling with itself, Modern is still a pretty broad and scary format, so there's quite a bit to consider when throwing this deck into a vacuum, most notably that cards which create any kind of card advantage (such as tokens or decent yield draw) start pushing you out pretty quick. Conceptually you're ttrying to make 1f1s non-stop to get a Planeswalker or Wurmcoil Engine to do the work for .you, but even against something like tokens, game 1 is just a flop unless your opponent is just trying to mash creatures, and even then it's kind of iffy if their aggro is strong. The manabase relies on ShockFetching and CIPT duals which means sure on t5 you'll have all of the tools to cast the lower costing spells, but the deck punishes you by always keeping you a turn behind unless you've already been a turn or two behind in the first place which is terribly punishable by blitzing aggro and denial-based control. This leaves your deck strong against combo, but in a bind everywhere else. I'm not saying that Bolas decks are without potential, but in the context of Modern, you aren't building enough value to justify putting yourself so far behind.
IMAGE(http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af108/acatan/sigwynzermancopy.png) Signature by IMAGE(http://www.poke-amph.com/heartgoldsoulsilver/sprites/258.png)
1/3 of the land roughly has to CiPT, which does hurt, but the shocklands allow the other duals to enter untapped which is nice. Aggro has yet to be a problem, tho FLashback tokens would be problematic. I'm sorta going with the results of recent PTQ's tho and tokens are a no show. Still with the great majority of decks basically just turning guys sideways, you still yield great MU against most anything. P/t are irrelevant most of the time, hexproof (which is bonkers these days) is something I can handle quite well.
Vs superior CA off control/combo I don't mind the dig they do-the card they play will get countered or killed so I don't mind too much. Getting 2 per turn off Jace isn't anything to scoff at either. 3+ turns of steadily drawing 2, while cutting off the advantage they get via Lilly is subtle, yet it really adds up in CA power over time, which is my overall goal. I haven't seen anything really dangerous in the early game to me yet. Affinity is gnarly, but it's big engine can be thoughtseizeed. Same with tempered steel. Sure they could go land/chrome mox/mox opal/memnite t1 but that would be a ridiculously good hand. Unlikely to happen. Again, I haven't seen any aggro t3 or less kills that can't be disrupted by any of my T1 plays. So thats what I'm asking-what is out there that I don't know that's popular. I can't worry about the fringe too much, cuz it won't be played in the higher tiers most likely.
I concede the tokens tho, as I said earlier.
Aggro tho im just not seeing the threat, at least from what deck lists I've seen.
The control MU is pretty easy I think (not much of that anyways)
Combo again isn't too hard in g2/3
So really the problem is aggro.
So what aggro do I have to stop is the penultimate question, making the ultimate question...what can't I stop?

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/12.jpg)

Speaking as someone who loves aggro, I actually think you have it pretty well covered. Why? Cause' when I get my one drop bolted and my two drop terminated, its really hard to recover the lost tempo and time. Also note that you cover zoo well, just terminate  or thoughtseize  tarmogoyf.
Woot! Go RED! I love red! Red is awesome! Did I mention I love red?
those personality things
Suprisingly enough, in that test, I'm not red I am White/Black
I am White/Black
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/21.jpg)

Boss smileys: Come check out the Expanded Multiverse Project for great stories and a great community
quotes
56778328 wrote:
Why did you post it here? "Hey, all you guys who play this game! I'm not gonna play it!" "Umm... Ok, dude."
Oh well thank your Mr. Monoredburn! That was my thinking!
As an aggro player-or simply someone who plays magic period, lol-what other archetypes do I need to worry about? I think ive covered my bases, but you never know!

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/12.jpg)

what can't I stop?



Melira Pod did very well at the the Pro Tour in Lincoln (2 top 8's) and hoses your deck still. It's not an auto-lose, but I wouldn't be surprised if your MU was something like 85/15 against a good pilot, which will make it really hard to finish well in higher level events, especially given the widespread play. I drafted last Friday at my shop and a pretty good player there was building it. It's going to get some love after those top finishes. 
My forum good deeds. Fortunately, left unpunished:
Show
"Incidentally, everytime you post in of these (mine or anyone else's) you have really great advice." -Tigerguy786 "Thanks Stop-Whining, your suggestions have been gold." -RedRollinS "You are probably the best person who has explained a certain concept to me so far, thank you VERY much for the information, it helps me out a ton. I can't wait to play this deck and use some cards for a deck of my own. Cheers!" -SpaceLincoln "In short, you good sir, are made of win advice. And I am actually going to be taking pretty much all of it." -jeremyc13
Explain the MU, I'm not terribly familiar. In my eyes..G1 is a loss, fine.
g2. You get your cages so no more neg CA from all those recursions. You counter/seize pod.
Now we are back to facing a normal mid range deck, where i kill your stuff, stall, and throw walkers at you.
Now this is what it seems to me-Melira Pod must have other trickery I don't know about. So I got my pen ready to be learned real good.
*is waiting patiently for mystical teachings...ok that was a bad joke...lol.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/12.jpg)

Explain the MU, I'm not terribly familiar. In my eyes..G1 is a loss, fine. g2. You get your cages so no more neg CA from all those recursions. You counter/seize pod. Now we are back to facing a normal mid range deck, where i kill your stuff, stall, and throw walkers at you. Now this is what it seems to me-Melira Pod must have other trickery I don't know about. So I got my pen ready to be learned real good. *is waiting patiently for mystical teachings...ok that was a bad joke...lol.



Well for one thing you're over simplifying it for one thing. I can say something like, "well JNP doesn't have much agression at all, as long as I play around Mana Leak for the 1 turn I cast it, I should get my Door To Nothingness online pretty easily." See? I think you're making molehills out of mountains here. 

The whole deck is utility creatures with either recursion or enter/leave the battlefield effects and sometimes both, inlcluding buggers like Acidic Slime. Even if you mulligan to draw a cage and play the long game, they're going to get rid of it before too long, and your deck is frankly quite bad at mulliganing anyways. I theorize that they might start boarding more Krosan Grip or maybe Harmonic Sliver which was MB already.

Although the deck does have a few nasty combos with Melira, I do think you'll be able to disrupt the pieces so they won't pull that off too many times. However, their resilient aggro plan B will win more often than not, imo.

Looking over the top 8 decks from that event, I wager that Vargas' UW Tron list is an equally terrible matchup for you. He runs a total of four creatures and as soon as he knows what your deck is like, is going to make sure it's Emrakul he drops and that's pretty much all she wrote, especially given the speed he was able to do so in the tourny. 

The two affinity matchups look decent for you, despite Ravager being a real pain against traditional removal. The modular and quick clock might be enough to beat you more often than not, I'm not sure. Consider it fair at least, though.

The mono U fae list looks pretty annoying to play against, but I don't think it would blow you out: Should be a good match. I look for Cryptic Command, Vendilion Clique, and damnable Mutavault to be their MVPs and your downfall should it happen.

You actually do have a decent matchup against the deck that won the whole thing, imo. Decent, all things considered. However, Raven's Crime and Seismic Assault with his land recursion make me hesitant to say you have the definitive edge.

I would fully expect your brew to drop the majority of games against those lists. Sure, they won a tournament, but that is what you need to expect to play against. Going to something like a Grand Prix means you may very well have no time stomping on some of the equally rogue decks (Don't get me wrong, I'm firmly on Team Rogue) but I don't like how you size up against the majority of the successful field without some kind of shift away from the 1for1 engine, as good deck builders and players are going to punish you for it, as they won't be playing by that assumption. 

Ohh and Blood Moon was only present in 6 copies total in the top 8, but you can be sure it will be in mine, and other players as well , and that's going to strain your mana base to the limit, so find a solution that isn't "I'll just counterspell it," as your deck isn't running enough to rely on that, methinks.
My forum good deeds. Fortunately, left unpunished:
Show
"Incidentally, everytime you post in of these (mine or anyone else's) you have really great advice." -Tigerguy786 "Thanks Stop-Whining, your suggestions have been gold." -RedRollinS "You are probably the best person who has explained a certain concept to me so far, thank you VERY much for the information, it helps me out a ton. I can't wait to play this deck and use some cards for a deck of my own. Cheers!" -SpaceLincoln "In short, you good sir, are made of win advice. And I am actually going to be taking pretty much all of it." -jeremyc13
I'm tracking on the possible plays other decks can make. Thx for that. My question, or really observation, is that all decks have answers to other decks. But they can't have every card they need every opener, and it can take time to find cards even with draw. I've played games where I have a playset of ponder, a playset of another spell im trying to find, played all 4 ponder and still never found it.
Some cards are terrible for everyone, like blood moon. If that resolves early before I have anything, I'm done for. But knowing stuff like game 2 can help you watch for it, like with more counters/discard/extractions. Depending on how aggro the deck is, it should work. Now if not, and it's like a RDW kinda deck that just runs the moon, I may well be SOL. But you can't be perfect against everything. The very decks you listed have their own flaws to the other decks, do they not? Like where is the balance gonna come from?
Sidenote:how can you be "bad" at mulligans? I mean...u reshuffle and draw...not following.
Everytime an opponent (or you) has to sb in an answer, it slows the deck down. Now for pod they can't go viscera seer/melira, sylvok outcast/murderous redcap cuz they have to deal with what you played first. Now there tempo is slowed down, something you are tryin to do anyways. Now you have time to bolt melira, or have some other response. Slime/sliver/whatever now have to hit your cage instead of maybe disrupting your land base, again buying you time. And while krosan grip is uncounterable, it again costs mana, and keeps there T3 redcap off the table, allowing you to kill melira and prob seer too.
Vs this tron thing...well Emmy is always a bad thing-but there has got to be some way to disrupt him from getting Emmy so fast...or the deck would be unstoppable, right? Either creature based or non-creature based cheating-both of which must have answers, right? I don't know this deck so I cant say for sure.
Ravager and fae are always annoying..but if it's in the lineup, no decks are gonna be pushovers, lol.
As for the 1-1 engine...I mean, what else ya supposed to do? Just cast damnation all day? The spot removal to me seems to be key in removing the core out much of this combo stuff. No melira/pod? See ya later. No cheat engine for Emmy? Goodbye. They might get some other chaff up to beat, but it's gonna be second rate compared to the decks main way of winning isn't it? That buys me time. And time is good.
I guess what I really need is to see the lists in action. Where can I find these builds? I'll proxy em all up and have my buddy back home play VS me.
I guess this lil home brewer just doesnt understand anything

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/12.jpg)

He's saying you're bad on the mul because every mul is a -1 for you, and when your deck primarily 1f1s, it will get ugly quickly if they keep sticking threats or trading counters.

Also keep in mind that we're being brutally honest about the deck, not your skill as a player or artistry as a deckbuilder. We all start a deck with a few blinders on and fall in love with our creations; the potential is always there, but there are many things that make this a nice deck in testing, but a bad deck in play. I don't foresee you getting beat up by Knight of the Reliquary so much, which is good, but Modern is simply too large to chalk up the strongest creature in it as the only real legitimate threat (sort of like in Standard, when people flip out as soon as Huntmaster of the Fells hits the board and waste removal they might not have otherwise had to use to off a 2/2 with a potential to become a mini Flametongue Kavu.)
IMAGE(http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af108/acatan/sigwynzermancopy.png) Signature by IMAGE(http://www.poke-amph.com/heartgoldsoulsilver/sprites/258.png)
I appreciate the honesty. Yes I do love the deck. It's my first control deck ever and it's always been good to me. I've piloted it a lot and MU are really good to a lot of stuff. Where people see bad MU's I kinda see the odds differently. Control made up like...12% of decks last modern. Not much. So many of these top decks either didn't face one or didn't face one like mine. I appreciate the heads up, it's what I need. I guess Im having trouble seeing WHY I'm wrong in the build. I dont think Im that off, yet it seems to be the consensus. I need to understand why before I can effectively make changes. Like i said previously, this doesn't play like typical control, and while the constant 1-1'ing may seem noobish, my play testing has seemed very different. The constant disruption just makes the other guy have no clue what plays to make or what to do. Now I haven't tested everything. Most homebrews I beat. Most aggro I beat. Played vs a nasty heartless Transmuter deck, beat that. Elf ball with the nettle sentinels and all that jazz. U get the drift. So all these "autolose" matches just don't seem that cut and dry to me. Im just trying to figure out either where I am wrong, or what interactions I can do that maybe you guys missed vs other archetypes. Just trying to get better.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/12.jpg)

Responding from points top to bottom:
These decks clearly have a good matchup against the majority of modern decks, otherwise they would not have made it through over a dozen rounds against a variety of opponents. At least twice, most likely as Pro Tour attendance doesn't come with the rain. They're also quite consistent, both in observation and theory. 

Basically, your deck functions more on not losing rather than winning. The majority of the cards in your deck are tasked with destroying creatures. That's the most prevelent element to your deck. When opponents run decks with especially few or especially resilient creatures, your opposition has a significant advantage before the decks are even shuffled. Most high placing decks are not so slanted in this format, as it is hard to play with the inevitably that makes such a long term strategy as profitable as others, or with the degree of protection needed to make it an excellent investment.  

Blood Moon is not terrible for everyone. many decks run enchantment destruction and/or higher basic land counts. Or are more red. It's a good hosing card that is more effective against some decks. Yours being one of them, hence why I mentioned it.

A pod deck that has it's Melira 'doombladed' has not suffered a major setback against your deck. It's likely going to win with undying/persisting beats anyways and you both traded 2 mana and a card. Since pod decks may run acceleration like Viridian Emissary, the loss may even have been yours. While the card is certainly a threat, you haven't won some great victory eliminating it. 

Mr. Vargas' deck is interestingly designed loosly like yours. He runs several counterspells, spot removal, and board wipes, doing its best to stall the game to around turn 5. Then it goes on the offensive with cards like Emrakul. It's vulnerability is more the very fast decks, as its turn 5 (this is the average, in the pro tour there were times it was quicker) threat is much more dangerous than yours and harder to deal with. Most of the acceleration is land based, with some artifacts making it difficult for your deck to slow it down efficiently. 
 
I think ravager and fae are certainly 'annoying' as well, but in my opinion they are actually better matchups for you, as the two previous I listed are likely lurking around the 75% win rate against you. I'd be more interested to see fae and affinity played out against you. 

Google Lincoln Modern Decklists may be of aid. My intention is not to 'put you off' of playing your deck. In fact, I think you could fare well against some Pro Tour top 8 decks, which is no easy feat. However, is it not better to play for 1st place, by improving your deck's versatility?
My forum good deeds. Fortunately, left unpunished:
Show
"Incidentally, everytime you post in of these (mine or anyone else's) you have really great advice." -Tigerguy786 "Thanks Stop-Whining, your suggestions have been gold." -RedRollinS "You are probably the best person who has explained a certain concept to me so far, thank you VERY much for the information, it helps me out a ton. I can't wait to play this deck and use some cards for a deck of my own. Cheers!" -SpaceLincoln "In short, you good sir, are made of win advice. And I am actually going to be taking pretty much all of it." -jeremyc13
Indeed it is. Creature light decks are certainly almost always a loss g1 barring horrible luck from them. I think my sb options for the following game is significant for them, but that's my opinion.
The comment on playing not to lose vs win is very true and in context. It seems to be working, but I see what you mean about the Tron's turn 4/5 being way stronger than my own. I wonder tho by continuing my "not to lose" strategy in that turn which is usually where combo/control try to take over, if I garner some advantage by not trying to. While they drop their bomb, I'm holding up mana for it. The Emmy example is good, but let's say it's his only creature out (u said he runs 4), and he drops it. Could I not respond with a geth's verdict? Sure id have to it..just as he would have to have Emmy. But it would, in my continuation of "not losing" buy me time, at least I think in theory.
I guess im seeing my disadvantages as potentially advantageous. I thought my SB was very versatile, enabling me to shift from anti-critters to anti-anything else. This may not be the case after all. I'm trying, but idk what else to do. Is Grixis control just not gonna fly with so many crazy threats runnin around? Perhaps only the swinging comboing techy stuff has a shot. :/ so sad

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/12.jpg)

The Tron list also runs cards like Gifts Ungiven to get him the pieces he needs, where you're much more a slave to your draws and without significant blue to be able to stop all of his/her non-creature spells. Given how a ramp deck like that works (somewhere between linearally and exponentially), I would bank on similar odds of your opponent having a counterspell and the mana to use it before rushing out the threat. Also, your opponent still time walks you and given their tutor package, even if you do kill it, there's decent, but not great odds they can retrieve said threat from their library again. With all of the mana he has, he could safely run pact of negation if he was really concerned about it. But he's not, because he feels that archetype isn't much of a threat to him and I'm fairly inclined to agree with him. Overall, if they hit that T5-T7 threat and wait for the protection there's good odds it'll resolve before you get that Karn or Bolas to help out. Control is by no means a dead horse (see T8 fae deck in pro tour) but I don't think a completely reactive deck is the best way to do it. 

It's much more beneficial to have your own strong way of winning the game, rather than just shutting down your opponent with the majority of your resources. The reason control decks with a lot of hard control elements like stasis, countertop, fae, etc. are successful is because they're actually building their own board presence and executing their wincons while disrupting the enemy. I actually have, imho, a pretty nasty control gameplan waiting in my own SB that I bring in against creature light/empty control decks seeking to take advantage of the creature heavy meta. It shuts them down. A lot. Remember, you're not the only 1 with a sideboard!

Lingering Souls. Fun card. Strong card. Definitely not banned material. Impossible for you to 1 for 1, unless they rush out all 4 spirits or you start picking off tokens with Karn/Bolas. Memetastic Storm Crow can eliminate every spirit they play for 1 card, but your competitive deck cannot.

An exaggeratory example, but there is a price to be paid for an empty board, and I think it'll will come back to bite you if you seek to move to that next level of play.
My forum good deeds. Fortunately, left unpunished:
Show
"Incidentally, everytime you post in of these (mine or anyone else's) you have really great advice." -Tigerguy786 "Thanks Stop-Whining, your suggestions have been gold." -RedRollinS "You are probably the best person who has explained a certain concept to me so far, thank you VERY much for the information, it helps me out a ton. I can't wait to play this deck and use some cards for a deck of my own. Cheers!" -SpaceLincoln "In short, you good sir, are made of win advice. And I am actually going to be taking pretty much all of it." -jeremyc13
I could move a few ratchet bomb into the sb, and I could replace wurmcoil engine with consecrated sphinx, giving me a flyer and draw. The life gain off the Wurm is really nice tho, as well as making a good beater.
How would you propose to run this better then?

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/12.jpg)

Well, I'm a bit protective of my current brews, so what I would do will remain a mystery to the interwebs as a whole, but I can give some general advice. I think Sphinx is a decent card pre-board but quite good post, especially if your opponent doesn't see any gatekeepers. They're like to out their creature destruction. Bomb can be rather nice, and gives you non-creature permanent destruction before CMC 7, which is certainly an aid. My friend may or may not have a pretty a sick R/W control build with no creatures. That is a headache of a matchup (esoteric granted,) but bomb could help a bit. I will say that there is a reason cards like Cryptic Command are more expensive than mana leak or geth's. Versatile CA rocks. 

If you're looking for ideas you could always *shudder* look at some netdecks. Might find an interesting combo or card worth playtesting. 
 
My forum good deeds. Fortunately, left unpunished:
Show
"Incidentally, everytime you post in of these (mine or anyone else's) you have really great advice." -Tigerguy786 "Thanks Stop-Whining, your suggestions have been gold." -RedRollinS "You are probably the best person who has explained a certain concept to me so far, thank you VERY much for the information, it helps me out a ton. I can't wait to play this deck and use some cards for a deck of my own. Cheers!" -SpaceLincoln "In short, you good sir, are made of win advice. And I am actually going to be taking pretty much all of it." -jeremyc13
Maybe ill give that a whirl then. And if I see you one day on the circuit, GL HF

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/12.jpg)

Maybe ill give that a whirl then. And if I see you one day on the circuit, GL HF



A pretty good sized group of us (skill levels being all over the map) will be making our GP debut in Columbus. Should be fun!
My forum good deeds. Fortunately, left unpunished:
Show
"Incidentally, everytime you post in of these (mine or anyone else's) you have really great advice." -Tigerguy786 "Thanks Stop-Whining, your suggestions have been gold." -RedRollinS "You are probably the best person who has explained a certain concept to me so far, thank you VERY much for the information, it helps me out a ton. I can't wait to play this deck and use some cards for a deck of my own. Cheers!" -SpaceLincoln "In short, you good sir, are made of win advice. And I am actually going to be taking pretty much all of it." -jeremyc13
I'm trying to make that as well, but I don't think I have enough points. Hopefully by summer. I'll be itching for a fight! Haha!!

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/12.jpg)

Sign In to post comments