Islands Dredge

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4 Serum Powder
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Cephalid Coliseum

4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug

2 Putrid Imp
4 Faithless Looting
1 Careful Study
1 Desperate Ravings

4 Breakthrough

3 Cabal Therapy
2 Dread Return

4 Narcomoeba
2 Ichorid
4 Bridge from Below

1 Sadistic Hypnotist 

SB
4 Phantasmagorian
3 Leyline of the Void
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Nether Shadow
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Gigapede
1 Angel of Despair
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

Slave of Tibalt. Currently trading for foils of my bro. PM me. Tarmogoyf on Twitter. Follow me. Team GFG Guns, Fame, Glory Those that require a sig for the ego simply haven't had enough kind words thrown his or her way. Currently looking for prerelease Plains! People who have mailed me rares:
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Malpheas: THANK YOU FOR THE FOIL TIBALT, YOU BEAUTIFUL GUY, YOU! Suudsu2200: Armageddon! Sèance, Dominating Licid, Words of War, Gaea's Anthem, Momentous Fall, Nyxathid PM me to make it happen. Your username will end up here, as the cards you sent me. I reserve the right to order your usernames by the cards I liked the best. Oh, and if you send me some Islands in the package, I'll sign them and mail them back.
I'm no Dredge expert, but don't you really, really want to have all 4 Careful Studys because it gives you two dredges and then you get to discard the two cards you dredged up?  It seems having Serum Powders for free mulligans and mana you don't use is just worse than having the extra chances to dredge.
This should be in the Ichorid thread. This should also have some discussion with it.

I've been playing dredge for over a year, and I have some concerns here. This build seems to be under the illusion that dredge's critical turn is the first turn. It's not, at all. 

You use only four gold lands and four Petal, how do you plan on casting Pimp, Looting or Therapy with any sort of consistency? Petal is awful, to be blunt. It's just not necessary. You want LED for the first turn win, not Petal. After turn one, you want to tap again with lands, not be empty boarded because of Petal. You aren't using Mine because it only gets three taps (I'm guessing), but you'll use Petal which only gets one? Gemstone Mine is the best gold land. Except for the long games you grind with Thug and Narco, you tap maybe twice. There's no reason not to play it. Your manabase is a huge step backwards.

Serum Powder, why? There's no Bazaar here. The only reason it could be useful is to mulligan to LED, but you shouldn't be so reliant on a single card in the first place. Besides, actually using SP and exiling any flashback card or Bridge or free dude is an unnecessary setback. 

Less than twelve dredgers is wrong. There are exactly twelve cards in all of MTG that dredge for 4 or more. In a dredge deck, you use them all.

Putrid Imp is your best card games two and three for fighting hate. Max those out. A close second would be sideboarded Tireless Tribe, but you can't cast those very reliably.

Desperate Ravings is better than Deep Analysis, but I dunno why you'd play either since they both depend on you drawing LED. The whole reason people switched from LED to Tribe in the past was because those types of draw spells couldn't be cast from hand. You're going backwards here.

Less than four Therapy is wrong. Quote me on that. All these recent lists placing well at SCG events are suboptimal. Quote me on that too. Therapy is the best token generating card. It has even more stress placed on it when you only use 2 Ichorid.

I can see your heavily invested in comboing turn one, but why bother beyond LED? I've cut DR and FKZ from my list entirely. If you go off, shredding your opponent's hand with Therapy is more than sufficient to win the game. That's especially true against combo, the matchup you'd want FKZ. Besides, just dredging Therapy is much more likely than hitting DR and your 1-of FKZ.

I severely dislike this build. It has no advantage over LED or Tribe lists, and is strictly worse from what I see.
I'm no Dredge expert, but don't you really, really want to have all 4 Careful Studys because it gives you two dredges and then you get to discard the two cards you dredged up?  It seems having Serum Powders for free mulligans and mana you don't use is just worse than having the extra chances to dredge.



You don't need a full set of Study anymore with Looting.

I'll go into Powder in depth.

 
I've been playing dredge for over a year, and I have some concerns here. This build seems to be under the illusion that dredge's critical turn is the first turn. It's not, at all. 

 

I've been playing Dredge for many years in both Vintage and Legacy and have won some events with it.

Vintage Dredge's "critical" turn is the first, even if that isn't always the turn you kill.

In the past, Legacy Dredge's "critical" turn wasn't on the first turn because it was an impossibility with the card pool.  This is no longer the case.

Just because you can do broken things the first turn, doesn't mean you are lackluster subsequent turns.

 
You use only four gold lands and four Petal, how do you plan on casting Pimp, Looting or Therapy with any sort of consistency? Petal is awful, to be blunt. It's just not necessary. You want LED for the first turn win, not Petal. After turn one, you want to tap again with lands, not be empty boarded because of Petal. You aren't using Mine because it only gets three taps (I'm guessing), but you'll use Petal which only gets one? Gemstone Mine is the best gold land. Except for the long games you grind with Thug and Narco, you tap maybe twice. There's no reason not to play it. Your manabase is a huge step backwards.



Petal is tremendous here.  In a build more focused on LED, you won't be seeing that second land.  City over Gemstone is true and the Cities are relics of a different board plan.  That will be remedied.

 
Serum Powder, why? There's no Bazaar here. The only reason it could be useful is to mulligan to LED, but you shouldn't be so reliant on a single card in the first place. Besides, actually using SP and exiling any flashback card or Bridge or free dude is an unnecessary setback. 



You Powder things away in Vintage Dredge - that doesn't make Powder bad.  You simply update the gameplan.  There wasn't a card like Looting before to allow you to be so reliant on LED.  Powder not only finds you those explosive LED/Land//Petal hands, but it ensures you always have access to Leyline from the board and it gives you nine chances in your first seven to set up the Phantasmagorian/Gigapede plan on the draw.  

It didn't have a place in Legacy before because Looting didn't exist.  It's absolutely insane now and Leyline consistency along with the solid spellless plan is bonkers.

 
Less than twelve dredgers is wrong. There are exactly twelve cards in all of MTG that dredge for 4 or more. In a dredge deck, you use them all.

 

There was a time when this was the case.  People have been performing well with lists as light as ten Dredgers now.  

 
Putrid Imp is your best card games two and three for fighting hate. Max those out. A close second would be sideboarded Tireless Tribe, but you can't cast those very reliably.



It isn't at all.  It's good in the MD as an outlet/food/a body.  It's inferior to the Powder-based spell-free board strategy against hate.  Otherwise, yes, I'd be packing more.  

 
Desperate Ravings is better than Deep Analysis, but I dunno why you'd play either since they both depend on you drawing LED. The whole reason people switched from LED to Tribe in the past was because those types of draw spells couldn't be cast from hand. You're going backwards here.

 

You are spot on.  Consider that slot updated along with the Mines.

 
Less than four Therapy is wrong. Quote me on that. All these recent lists placing well at SCG events are suboptimal. Quote me on that too. Therapy is the best token generating card. It has even more stress placed on it when you only use 2 Ichorid.



I generally really, really, really like a set of Therapy.  This is the first Dredge list I've ever played without a full set.  I'm satisfied with three here.  I've tested with four and I've tested maining three and boarding one and I like the three.  You dig a lot deeper a lot faster with this build.  You find your Therapy consistently.  I may go to a forth, but testing hasn't warranted it at all in this build yet.

On Ichorid, I'd like to board a third and I probably will eventually.  

 
I can see your heavily invested in comboing turn one, but why bother beyond LED? I've cut DR and FKZ from my list entirely. If you go off, shredding your opponent's hand with Therapy is more than sufficient to win the game. That's especially true against combo, the matchup you'd want FKZ. Besides, just dredging Therapy is much more likely than hitting DR and your 1-of FKZ.



I'm still using Zealot because I like an I-Win button.  It is what it is - an out that wins me game when nothing else will suffice.  I'm considering playing a Hypnotist because it will often also win in those siutations as well as feeding Ichorid. I also really, really like Dread Return.  I play two due to Powder.  It is an effect I cherish in redundancy.  In many matchups, a fat GGT is enough.

 
I severely dislike this build. It has no advantage over LED or Tribe lists, and is strictly worse from what I see.

 

I hope I made a strong enough case for you to test it.
Slave of Tibalt. Currently trading for foils of my bro. PM me. Tarmogoyf on Twitter. Follow me. Team GFG Guns, Fame, Glory Those that require a sig for the ego simply haven't had enough kind words thrown his or her way. Currently looking for prerelease Plains! People who have mailed me rares:
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Malpheas: THANK YOU FOR THE FOIL TIBALT, YOU BEAUTIFUL GUY, YOU! Suudsu2200: Armageddon! Sèance, Dominating Licid, Words of War, Gaea's Anthem, Momentous Fall, Nyxathid PM me to make it happen. Your username will end up here, as the cards you sent me. I reserve the right to order your usernames by the cards I liked the best. Oh, and if you send me some Islands in the package, I'll sign them and mail them back.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the reason why everyone was so excited over Faithless Looting in Dredge was that it's copies 5-8 (5-12 if you count flashback) of Careful Study (which was considered the best card in the deck).  Why would you take a step backwards and only run 5 copies of that effect?  It seems like having more Careful Studys is just better than having any number of Desperate Ravings/Deep Analysis.  You get the same number of draws and more discards (which aren't random).  Plus, Dredge decks seem to be more blue based because of Cephalid Coliseum, so having an "on color" effect seems like it's a lot better.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the reason why everyone was so excited over Faithless Looting in Dredge was that it's copies 5-8 (5-12 if you count flashback) of Careful Study (which was considered the best card in the deck).  Why would you take a step backwards and only run 5 copies of that effect?  It seems like having more Careful Studys is just better than having any number of Desperate Ravings/Deep Analysis.  You get the same number of draws and more discards (which aren't random).  Plus, Dredge decks seem to be more blue based because of Cephalid Coliseum, so having an "on color" effect seems like it's a lot better.

This. All the way.

Inconsistent build. Unless you mathematically explain why Powder is good here, I dislike and question its existence. I would up the consistency by using 1-3 lands more and surely 3 Careful Studies more.
Bearing in mind I've never piloted Dredge:

Since you're going for pure speed, could Rites have a place along with a maindeck Iona? It requires a non-LED source, but it's definitely a legitimate way to oops all over the table.

@Careful Study: Study is great, but what makes Looting amazing is that it's a Study that can be cast off LED. Dredge it and still need to keep digging? K. Open with it but no lands? K. Need 2 Studies? Don't even bother drawing the second.

I miss the third Therapy as well, but I can see it with silly hands like LED-Colosseum-Petal-Looting.

You have 1 Grudge listed twice in SB. Typo, or are you running 2 of them?

And now from the inexperience, sideboard Leyline?


...You and your Powder, John. =P
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