There are over 20 "I parry the attack" Interrupts in D&D, which one is your favorite?

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If you got DDI, go on the compendium and search for "Parry". There are 28 results, a few just have parry in the flavor text but the majority are "Interrupt an attack to gain a defense bonus" and some fighter exclusive "halve damage taken"

Some additional effects include "Shift away" "target grants CA" "you gain Temp HP (Ranger gets this one)" "counter attack the guy"

So, do you think we really need 20+ powers to represent this ability across multiple martial power source classes, or is there a way to consolidate them into two or so powers?

We need 28 powers for the same reason we need 2 threads for pretty much the exact same topic.
The other thread is for everything from sucking people into dimensional vortexes to grabbing a minion as a bodyshield. My only mistake was using the word 'favorite', instead of making the title more clear. I guess you didn't actually read the thread's content though.

This is specifically for stuff that follows the flavor of "I parry an attack", with the goal of seeing if these 20+ powers could just be consolidated into one or two powers. This is the main focus and I'm gonna post a fat list of moves that should be on page 1.


Here's the parries, they fall into 3 types
standard attack- you gain a defensive bonus and/or counterattack until next turn
entering a stance- you gain a defensive bonus
interrupt- you raise your defense
reaction- you take half damage

shifting, sliding, granting CA, gaining temp HP's are other effects added on.



After delivering a solid blow, you move to a defensive position and adjust your grip to place your gythka between yourself and your enemy.


Encounter      Martial
Free Action      Personal


Trigger: You hit an enemy with a gythka.


Effect: You shift half your speed and gain a +2 power bonus to AC and Reflex against the triggering enemy until the end of your next turn.


---


Spinning your lotulis, you ward off an incoming attack.


Encounter      Martial
Immediate Interrupt      Personal


Trigger: You are hit by a melee or a ranged attack while wielding a lotulis.


Effect: You gain a bonus to AC and Reflex against the triggering attack equal to your Wisdom modifier.


---


You ready your off-hand weapon to deflect incoming attacks.


Daily        Martial, Weapon
Standard Action      Melee weapon


Requirement: You must be wielding two melee weapons.


Target: One creature


Attack: Strength vs. AC (main weapon)


Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage (main weapon).


Effect: You gain a power bonus to AC equal to your Wisdom modifier until the end of your next turn or until you attack with your off-hand weapon.


----


Rogue Attack 1Guarded Attack

Striking quickly, you remain ready to parry.


Encounter        Martial, Weapon
Standard Action      Melee weapon


Requirement: You must be wielding a light blade.


Target: One creature


Primary Attack: Dexterity vs. AC


Hit: 2[W] + Dexterity modifier damage, and if the target makes a melee attack against you before the start of your next turn, you can make a secondary attack against it as an immediate interrupt.


  Secondary Attack: Strength vs. AC


  Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage, and the target takes a –2 penalty to the triggering attack roll.


-----


Ranger Utility 2Unbalancing Parry

You deftly block your enemy’s strike and turn his momentum against him, causing him to stumble to the side.


Encounter        Martial, Weapon
Immediate Reaction      Melee 1


Trigger: An enemy misses you with a melee attack


Effect: You slide the enemy three squares into a square adjacent to you and gain combat advantage against it until the end of your next turn.


--


Sohei Utility 2Sohei Parry

Divine guidance helps you place your weapon in the path of an attack.


Encounter        Divine
Immediate Interrupt      Personal


Trigger: You are hit by a melee or ranged attack while you are holding a weapon.


Effect: You gain a +2 power bonus to the defense targeted by the attack until the end of your next turn.


--


Fighter Attack 3Parry and Riposte

You parry an attack and quickly counter with your own, throwing your foe off balance.


Encounter        Martial, Weapon
Immediate Reaction      Melee weapon


Trigger: An enemy misses you or an ally with a melee attack


Target: The triggering enemy


Attack: Strength vs. AC


Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage, and the target grants combat advantage to you and your allies until the end of your next turn.


--



Rogue Utility 6Swift Parry

You deflect your enemy’s attack, causing the force behind its blow to send it off balance and leaving it vulnerable to your next attack.


Encounter        Martial, Weapon
Immediate Interrupt      Personal


Requirement: You must be wielding a light blade.


Trigger: You are hit by a melee attack


Effect: You gain a bonus to defenses against the triggering attack equal to your Charisma modifier, and you gain combat advantage against the attacker until the end of your next turn.


--


Callidyrr Dragoon Utility 6Dragoon Parry

Subtle changes in the enemy’s bearing reveal its intentions, allowing you to parry and throw the foe off balance.


Encounter        Martial, Primal
Immediate Interrupt      Personal


Trigger: An adjacent enemy hits you with a melee attack while you are wielding a melee weapon.


Effect: You gain a +2 power bonus to AC and Reflex against the triggering attack. In addition, you gain combat advantage against the triggering enemy until the end of your next turn.


--


Fighter Attack 7Savage Parry

With predatory speed, you violently parry, extorting pain as the penalty for your foe’s impudent attack.


Encounter        Invigorating, Martial, Weapon
Immediate Interrupt      Melee weapon


Trigger: An enemy hits an ally with a melee attack


Target: The triggering enemy


Attack: Strength vs. AC


Hit: Strength modifier damage, and the ally takes only half damage from the triggering attack.


  Weapon: If you’re wielding an axe, a hammer, or a mace, your attack deals extra damage equal to your Constitution modifier.


--


Fighter Attack 7Iron Bulwark

You parry one blow after another, denying your foes the satisfaction of getting a solid hit.


Encounter        Martial, Weapon
Standard Action      Melee weapon


Target: One creature


Attack: Strength vs. AC


Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage.


Effect: You gain a +1 power bonus to AC, or a +2 power bonus if you’re using a shield, until the end of your next turn.


--


Blade Dancer Attack 11Cross-Body Parry

As your foe swings, you quickly cross your blades to parry, then scissor those blades brutally into your attacker.


Encounter        Martial, Weapon
Immediate Interrupt      Melee weapon


Trigger: An enemy makes a melee attack against you


Requirement: You must be wielding two melee weapons.


Target: The triggering enemy


Attack: Strength vs. Reflex (main weapon and off-hand weapon), two attacks


Hit: 1[W] damage per attack. If both attacks hit, the target is weakened until the end of your next turn.


  Weapon: If you’re wielding two light blades, two heavy blades, or a heavy blade and a light blade, each attack deals extra damage equal to your Dexterity modifier.


--


Kensei Utility 12Ultimate Parry

With a whirl of your weapon, you expertly deflect an enemy’s attack.


Daily        Martial
Immediate Reaction      Personal


Trigger: You take damage from an attack


Effect: The damage is reduced by an amount equal to your level.


--


Longarm Marshal Utility 12Whirling Spear

Using your spear’s haft like a staff, you deftly parry incoming attacks.


Daily        Martial, Stance
Minor Action      Personal


Requirement: You must be wielding a spear.


Effect: Until the stance ends, you gain a +1 bonus to AC, or a +2 bonus to AC when wielding a spear with two hands.


--


Rakehell Duelist Utility 12Main Gauche Parry

Lesson twenty-three of the tempest technique—a well-timed parry with a light blade can save life and loin.


Encounter        Martial
Immediate Interrupt      Personal


Requirement: You must be wielding two melee weapons, one of which is a light blade that has the off-hand property.


Trigger: An enemy hits you with a melee attack


Effect: You gain a +4 bonus to AC and Reflex until the start of your next turn.


--


Shock Trooper Utility 12Assault Footwork

With the poise of a seasoned sailor on a storm-tossed deck, you hold your weapons ready to parry, while remaining coiled to dodge.


Daily        Martial, Stance
Minor Action      Personal


Effect: Until the stance ends, once during each of your turns when you miss with a melee attack, you can either shift 1 square or gain a +1 power bonus to AC until the end of your next turn.


--


Fighter Attack 15Masterful Parry

You catch the enemy’s attack with your off-hand weapon and drive your main weapon into your enemy’s unprotected body


Daily        Martial, Reliable, Weapon
Immediate Interrupt      Melee weapon


Requirement: You must be wielding two melee weapons.


Trigger: An enemy marked by you would hit you with a melee attack.


Target: The triggering enemy


Primary Attack: Strength + 2 vs. AC (off-hand weapon)


Hit: You take half damage from the triggering attack and make a secondary attack against the same target.


  Secondary Attack: Strength + 2 vs. AC (main weapon)


  Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage, and the target is dazed (save ends). You can shift 1 square.


  Miss: Half damage, and the target is dazed until the end of your next turn. You can shift 1 square.


--


Ranger Utility 16Ranger's Parry

You use your off-hand weapon to deflect an enemy attack.


Encounter        Martial, Weapon
Immediate Interrupt      Personal


Requirement: You must be wielding two melee weapons.


Trigger: An enemy hits you with a melee or a ranged attack


Effect: You gain a +4 bonus to AC and Reflex against the attack, and you gain 10 temporary hit points.


--


Rogue Utility 16Vigilant Footwork

You parry and dodge close-quarters attacks with amazing focus, never hampering your offense.


Daily        Martial, Stance, Weapon
Minor Action      Personal


Requirement: You must be wielding a light blade.


Effect: Until the stance ends, you gain a +1 power bonus to AC and Reflex against melee attacks.


--


Swordmage Utility 16Unerring Parry

With a quick flick of the wrist and a spell on the lips, you can guard yourself against the worst attacks.


Encounter        Arcane
Immediate Interrupt      Personal


Trigger: A melee attack damages you


Effect: The triggering attack deals half damage to you.


--


Avenger Attack 17Vengeful Parry

You parry your enemy’s attack and make a riposte infused with holy power.


Encounter        Divine, Weapon
Immediate Interrupt      Melee 1


Trigger: An enemy adjacent to you hits or misses you


Target: The triggering enemy


Effect: The target takes a -2 penalty to the attack roll. Make the following attack against the target.


  Censure of Unity: The penalty to the target’s attack roll equals your Intelligence modifier.


  Attack: Wisdom vs. AC


  Hit: 2[W] + Wisdom modifier damage. You shift 1 square and then slide the target 2 squares to a square adjacent to you.


--


Blade Bravo Attack 20Vicious Parry

Batting aside your enemy’s attack, you drive your weapon home.


Daily        Martial, Rattling, Weapon
Immediate Interrupt      Melee weapon


Requirement: You must be wielding a light blade.


Trigger: An enemy hits you with a melee attack


Target: The triggering enemy


Effect: The target is weakened and grants combat advantage until the end of its next turn.


Attack: Dexterity vs. AC


Hit: 3[W] + Dexterity modifier + Strength modifier damage.


Miss: Half damage.


--


Wandering Swordmage Attack 20Heritage of Blades

Iridescent blades of force surround you. They parry for your allies and cut your foes.


Daily        Arcane, Force, Stance
Standard Action      Personal


Effect: Your allies within 2 squares of you gain a +1 power bonus to AC and Reflex defense.
    You can use a minor action once on your turn to deal force damage to an enemy of your choice within 5 squares. You deal force damage equal to 2d6 + your Wisdom modifier.


--


Monk Utility 22Supreme Parry

Your weapon blurs as you spin it around you in an impenetrable barrier.


Daily        Psionic, Stance
Minor Action      Personal


Effect: You assume the supreme parry stance. Until the stance ends, you add the proficiency bonus of your main weapon as a power bonus to AC and Reflex.


--


Fighter Attack 23Turnabout Riposte

You make a quick parry on your ally’s behalf, take a swift jab at his assailant, and then spin into a new position.


Encounter        Martial, Weapon
Immediate Interrupt      Melee 1


Trigger: An enemy adjacent to you hits an ally with a melee attack


Target: The triggering enemy


Attack: Strength vs. AC


Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage, and you can shift 2 squares and must end adjacent to the target.


Effect: The ally takes only half damage from the triggering attack.


--


Fighter Attack 29Force the Battle

Your skill with your weapon is so great that every thrust, parry, and counterattack takes its toll on your foes. Some of your attacks are so ingrained within you that they require almost no effort.


Daily        Martial, Stance, Weapon
Minor Action      Personal


Effect: You assume the force the battle stance. Until the stance ends, your fighter at-will and encounter weapon attack powers deal 1[W] extra damage. In addition, once per round when an enemy starts its turn adjacent to you, you can use a fighter at-will attack power against it as a free action, but only if you are able to make opportunity attacks.



you can't just search the word parry in the compendium =)

Force the Battle, just uses it in the flavor text;  it is clearly not a defensive adjustment.  Displacement is a parry fluffed as magical interference, and rerolls are both more and less than a straight defensive bonus (not to mention cooler).  Other powers completely negate the hit instead of just halve it, and some are Free Actions and even No Action.  Some powers allow the status effects through while handling the damage, and some strip the status effects off and leave the damage untouched.  Our warlock used some power all the time that forced the attack to target a different defense entirely.

I would rather keep class, role, and power source flavor than distill parries down to a small handful of choices.

INSIDE SCOOP, GAMERS: In the new version of D&D, it will no longer be "Edition Wars." It will be "Edition Lair Assault." - dungeonbastard

It may be 28 powers, but it is for 17 classes across 15 different levels. Only 3 classes have more than one choice and only one class has two choices at the same level. So yes, in 4e design, we do need 28 different parry variants.
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
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Force the Battle, just uses it in the flavor text;  it is clearly not a defensive adjustment.


the threat of a counter-attack is itself defensive. You'll notice some of these parries don't even raise your defense, they just work on a miss. The flavor text is enough, as this is about how the mechanics deliver the flavor, the flavor being "I parry!"


It may be 28 powers, but it is for 17 classes across 15 different levels. Only 3 classes have more than one choice and only one class has two choices at the same level. So yes, in 4e design, we do need 28 different parry variants.



In current 4e design, yeah, this thread is to challenge that setup. Such as "what if every power source shared a move pool? With differences set by class ability" Sort of like picking a color in M:tG.
The threat of a counterattack may arguably be a tertiary defensive effect, but that still doesn't make Force the Battle a parry anymore than the threat of damage from standing in a Cloudkill or Hunger of Hadar does.

Remember, flavor text means nothing mechanically.  It doesn't matter if the default flavor text implies that a power does something, because flavor text can be fluffed to be whatever the player wants it to be - as long as the new flavor text carries the verisimilitude of being able to produce the mechanical effect. 

INSIDE SCOOP, GAMERS: In the new version of D&D, it will no longer be "Edition Wars." It will be "Edition Lair Assault." - dungeonbastard

The threat of a counterattack may arguably be a tertiary defensive effect, but that still doesn't make Force the Battle a parry anymore than the threat of damage from standing in a Cloudkill or Hunger of Hadar does.

Remember, flavor text means nothing mechanically.  It doesn't matter if the default flavor text implies that a power does something, because flavor text can be fluffed to be whatever the player wants it to be - as long as the new flavor text carries the verisimilitude of being able to produce the mechanical effect. 



...and this is about how the mechanics deliver the flavor, the flavor being "I parry!" You're agreeing with me in a way that reads like you aren't, hahah.
no, I'm disagreeing completely.  Force the Battle doesn't even meet your criteria of what a parry is:
Here's the parries, they fall into 3 types
standard attack- you gain a defensive bonus and/or counterattack until next turn
entering a stance- you gain a defensive bonus
interrupt- you raise your defense
reaction- you take half damage 



Force the Battle isn't a counterattack.  It does the exact same thing on an enemy miss as it does on an enemy hit - nothing.  It doesn't interfere with the chance to hit, reduce or remove damage or conditions, provide an answering attack, or remove the fighter from the area.  it works if the fighter is standing next to a Stunned, Sleeping, Unconcious or Petrified opponent that can't make an attack at all.  It works if the fighter just moved next to an enemy, the enemy moved next to the fighter, or they were forced moved in some combo that left them adjacent.  It works if the fighter fell down a pit and just happened to land next to an enemy, assuming the fighter survived the fall.  The only remotely defensive effect it has is if its meager damage actually kills the enemy before it gets to act, and only then if the enemy was going to attack and not just move away or surrender.

At least use Unyielding Avalanche as the example.  It's even already flavored as a defensive stance.  (that's one of the quirks of the compendium, searching 'parry' will not pick up 'parrying' or 'parries' and such)

I think the idea of cleaning up out-of-turn actions has real merit, but you can't just lump them all together and call them parries.  At least not without coming up with a tighter definition of parry besides "anything offensive or defensive that happens at all anywhere during an encounter." ;) 

INSIDE SCOOP, GAMERS: In the new version of D&D, it will no longer be "Edition Wars." It will be "Edition Lair Assault." - dungeonbastard

In current 4e design, yeah, this thread is to challenge that setup. Such as "what if every power source shared a move pool?

Then this thread probably belongs in the homebrew forum, not D&D general. In that forum, you will get more what if  replies than what it is  replies.
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />Force the Battle isn't a counterattack.


The flavor says parries, that's why it's here.

Remember, flavor text means nothing mechanically.


I listed it because it's quite different from every other parry (and doesn't fall into what I typically expect of parries), and is an ultimate level 29 fighter ability.


Thanks, didn't notice there was a homebrew forum all the way down the list.
It may be 28 powers, but it is for 17 classes across 15 different levels. Only 3 classes have more than one choice and only one class has two choices at the same level. So yes, in 4e design, we do need 28 different parry variants.

In current 4e design, yeah, this thread is to challenge that setup. Such as "what if every power source shared a move pool? With differences set by class ability" Sort of like picking a color in M:tG.

Sharing powers is something they started doing at the end of 4e.

Slayer's share all the fighter utils.
Bladesingers share all the wizard utils.
Thiefs share the rogues utils.
ect...

And yes, this could of been done earlier, (runepriest sharing cleric utils) but it wasn't.  So it won't be changed.

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

If you got DDI, go on the compendium and search for "Parry". There are 28 results, a few just have parry in the flavor text but the majority are "Interrupt an attack to gain a defense bonus" and some fighter exclusive "halve damage taken"

Some additional effects include "Shift away" "target grants CA" "you gain Temp HP (Ranger gets this one)" "counter attack the guy"

So, do you think we really need 20+ powers to represent this ability across multiple martial power source classes, or is there a way to consolidate them into two or so powers?





Is there something wrong with having more powers? I really wish someone would explain why "bloat", as it's usually called, is a bad thing.


But, if we are, for some reason, making it a goal to pair down the power list...

I'd say that parry powers can't really be consolodated down to less than...6 powers. There's the defensive, divert the attack so it isn't deadly, but doing so still takes it out of you powers. The ones that reduce damage taken, but don't make the attack not happen.

Then, there's the outright, "your attack does nothing/didn't happen" powers. Counters are fun.

Speaking of the word counter, there are also the counter attack powers. Rogues have a couple where you do a normal attack, and then you can counter attack if someone attacks you. They also have a daily (at least one) that puts them in a stance that allows counter attacks against most/all attacks for the rest of the encounter.

Powers like this are very fun, effective and make the character play different than a character that has normal standard/minor action attacks. If multi-attacking wasn't so broken via stacking damage boosts, it wouldn't even be too powerful.

One of my favorites is the monk attack that triggers on being hit, is more accurate and does more damage if in response to a charge, then deals damage and slides the target far enough away that most targets won't be able to still make the attack. It's a daily, and it deserves to be. Combine that with a couple rogue parry powers, and you've got a parrying master monk|rogue.

Fun, effective, but at least in a normal party, not broken.

So, there are probably some that are basically the same, and if the martial classes pulled from the same list of powers, which I think is a terri-bad idea*, could be replaced with one power, but most of them are different enough to justify remaining unique, even in a shared power list.


*I can't see it accomplishing much of value. What it will accomplish is to reduce the level of variety in power creation. 4e powers can be as unique as they are, and they definately are, because each power is balanced within it's class, rather than having to be balanced for every martial character, or ever caster, or every nature magic using class, or every character with a longsword.
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So, there are probably some that are basically the same, and if the martial classes pulled from the same list of powers, which I think is a terri-bad idea*, could be replaced with one power, but most of them are different enough to justify remaining unique, even in a shared power list.


*I can't see it accomplishing much of value. What it will accomplish is to reduce the level of variety in power creation. 4e powers can be as unique as they are, and they definately are, because each power is balanced within it's class, rather than having to be balanced for every martial character, or ever caster, or every nature magic using class, or every character with a longsword.

No reason you couldn't have some availible to everyone, and some class specific.  4e already has some with skill/racial powers.  Just expand that a bit.

"quick parry: +4 to AC"  must wield a heavy blade.
"quick dodge: shift 1 square" must be a rogue.

It would still reduce bloat.

Or perhaps...

"quick doge: shift 1 square
     *Rogue: shift 2 squares, and you get combat advantage.
     *Fighter: The target is marked
     ..."

* could be done as class features...  i.e.  "when you shift away from an enemy, you get combat advantage", and "when you shift away from an enemy, you mark him". 

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

So, there are probably some that are basically the same, and if the martial classes pulled from the same list of powers, which I think is a terri-bad idea*, could be replaced with one power, but most of them are different enough to justify remaining unique, even in a shared power list.


*I can't see it accomplishing much of value. What it will accomplish is to reduce the level of variety in power creation. 4e powers can be as unique as they are, and they definately are, because each power is balanced within it's class, rather than having to be balanced for every martial character, or ever caster, or every nature magic using class, or every character with a longsword.

No reason you couldn't have some availible to everyone, and some class specific.  4e already has some with skill/racial powers.  Just expand that a bit.

"quick parry: +4 to AC"  must wield a heavy blade.
"quick dodge: shift 1 square" must be a rogue.

It would still reduce bloat.

Or perhaps...

"quick doge: shift 1 square
     *Rogue: shift 2 squares, and you get combat advantage.
     *Fighter: The target is marked
     ..."

* could be done as class features...  i.e.  "when you shift away from an enemy, you get combat advantage", and "when you shift away from an enemy, you mark him". 



I have no particular issue with the existence of shared powers. I just don't want to see that become the baseline of the game. Unfortunately, I'm probably out of luck, and next will probably be a bit tedious for me in terms of character creation.
Skeptical_Clown wrote:
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
104340961 wrote:
Pine trees didn't unanimously decide one day that leaves were gauche.
http://community.wizards.com/doctorbadwolf/blog/2012/01/10/how_we_can_help_make_dndnext_awesome
Methinks OgreBattle is either a WotC spy, or thinks gathering info from other forums will make the D&D Next threads not suck somehow.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
The logic of sharing powers is that it makes each power more memorable through repetition. Which may be true - I has played with m group for a year and can't tell you what most of their powers are named. Of course, this sort of assumes the "I cast magic missile on the darkness" pattern for skill resolution - in out group were likely to say "I shoot an arrow and it explodes into a swarm of bats" or "seeing you'll miss, I shoot an arrow at him. It hits, winging him, and he stumbles into your lasso". I can't tell you what the names of my friends powers are, but I bet I can describe a lot of them. (well excePt I know "fey jump shot" because we didn't understand why the seeker was doing a jump shot - images of jumping to get more height before releasing the arrow were funny, but confusing. Then we got that it was a"fey jump" shot, so we remember that name at least)
and next will probably be a bit tedious for me in terms of character creation.


Rangers and Fighters have different class lists is tedious for me... so I made a Fighter|Ranger hahah.
It's just how I like to approach things, a core (martial) that branches into "Fighter, Ranger, Warlord", vs many different seperate trees of "Fighter, Ranger, Warlord". 

The logic of sharing powers is that it makes each power more memorable through repetition.


Yeah, that's part of the idea.

 I figure another part of it is I just like playing fighting games a lot, and in those you have a core set of mechanics (attack, block, parry, super art, etc.) that characters share, while still maintaining their own special moves. Having entirely separate powers for rangers and fighters feels more like a computer game where you click 1-9. Basically, I like Street Fighter/console gameplay more than Warcraft/PC games. This is my own vague, personal explaination. 

 having the 'parry button' be the same for rangers and fighters just helps click with me. Then it's up to class abilities on how the parry is customized, with Ryu going parry->dragon punch while the trenchcoat robot man goes parry->grab n' slam



 
Did you just suggest that if we have d&d be more like street fighter, it'll feel "less like a computer game?". As for combining lists, the other benefit is that splat books can be smaller while still giving more options. Still, I loved that when I multiclassed to paladin, I got a whole rack of powers to look through. So, it doesn't appeal to me, but glad it appeals to you.
I like different classes having different powers.  A Rogue is going to parry differently than a fighter or warlock. Even if the effect is mechanically the same, you're using "Somersault Dodge" or somesuch instead of just "Parry." It adds some personality to the class.

I don't really agree with the 'memorable' argument. If the rogue does the same "parry" action that the fighter's been doing, you're just going to picture him doing what the fighter always does. Rather than make it memorable, it makes it generic and makes the classes all feel the same.

Of course, good roleplaying can fix that, and the rogue can certainly describe his parry however he wants. But 4e seems to have been angled at folks who were new/less experienced at RP, and giving them named powers helps them to immerse. This doesn't hinder seasoned RPers from adding plenty of flavor of their own.

Lastly, everyone sharing generic pools of action choices sounds a lot like older versions of D&D to me. Which are still around and no one is stopping you from playing them.
Did you just suggest that if we have d&d be more like street fighter, it'll feel "less like a computer game?".



Yeah, it's using a controller with a d-pad and motions like "quarter circle forward->punch" to input special actions
vs "hotkeys 1-9" and clicking things with a mouse.


Lastly, everyone sharing generic pools of action choices sounds a lot like older versions of D&D to me. Which are still around and no one is stopping you from playing them.


and in those systems the fighter, barbarian, and monk can just equally suck at tripping people instead. 4e's basic rules (fort/ref/will defense, utilities, etc.) are also what I like. I'm pretty much making my image of D&D5e at this point, with a strong focus on interrupt actions.


love ripostes.
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />Force the Battle isn't a counterattack.


The flavor says parries, that's why it's here.



So if there was a strike that autohit, and the flavor text was:

The fighter lashes out with a mighty blow that no mortal can dodge or parry 

It would end up here?

Because duuuuuuuuddeeeeee 
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