How to Abuse Rapid Shot

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So I'm a lover of Hybrids and was looking at the feat Archery Mastery which would allow me to snag Rapid Shot, I'm just curious how to get the most out of it.

My initial thought was to lay in Seeker and use all of my enc and at-wills with one attack which could be pretty nasty.

What are some other options?

As far as I can tell I have to Hybrid Ranger if I want to get the at-will prereq for Archery Mastery. I suppose I could also do Half-Elf but it's much later in life to get the extra power to the at-will level.
I enjoy Half-Elf Diletantte the skald at-will that gives +2 atk bonus. MC Master of Stories for Skald Aura and just toss out +2 power bonus to attack rolls to the entire party. 
So Ranger|Seeker\Bard?
Another popular option is Invoker, and Power of Skill which turns Divine Bolts into a ranged basic.  Divine Bolts is fun because it can have two targets, and has the Lightning keyword natively for Mark of Storms goodness.

Bargle wrote:
This is CharOp. We not only assume block-of-tofu monsters, but also block-of-tofu DMs.
 

Zelink wrote:
You're already refluffing, why not refluff to something that doesn't suck?
Seconded the Invoker option. You can hybrid or be a half-elf and trigger it in Paragon by MCing Ranger for the feat to trade the at-will for Archery Mastery. There has been a debate on whether you can trade it in Heroic just by having the Ranger power, despite using it only once per encounter. That's extremely cheesy though, so if you want to be safe, it's 11+ or hybrid.
I have a Ranger|Wizard hybrid who spams Magic Missile through Rapid Shot.  She's quite effective, too.    Her only complaint is that it's not a real burst, so Swarms will still take half-damage from it. 

But at Paragon, I'm thinking of going War Wizard of Cormyr and retraining Magic Missile for Nightmare Eruption.  Then WWoC will let me use that power as a Basic Attack, so I can then spam Nightmare Eruption, doing lots of splash damage on each hit.    And the splash damage is party friends, so even if I have to roll against an ally or two, they won't take the resulting splash damage from hitting the bad guys around them. 
What other classes offer some ranged basic at-wills?


I was also looking at a Rogue|Ranger\Seeker (for Primal Eye) which gives me an RBA at 1d8+15 for clumped enemies, otherwise I go into the basic Rogue tactic of one-on-one hitting and moving.
Warlock - Eldritch Blast, Eldritch Bolt
Wizard - Magic Missile
Avenger - Avenging Shackles
Invoker - Avenging Light, Sun Strike, Divine bolts (via Power of Skill)
Psion - Kinetic Trawl (unaugmented), Mind Thrust (unaugmented)
Seeker - Biting Swarm, Grappling spirits, Guardian Harrier
Sorcerer - Energy Strobe, Acid Orb, Elemental Bolt (unleveled power, not sure it can be taken)

I think that is most, if not all of them.
Tesla returns.
Rapid shot says "You make a ranged attack with a weapon...".  How are you using Divine Bolts or Magic Missile with it?  Does it apply if you're using a weapliment?
"...you might be eaten by a Grue."
Yes, it does.

Biting Swarm is probably the best power to cheese out Rapid Shot.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Yes, it does.

Biting Swarm is probably the best power to cheese out Rapid Shot.



War Wizard of Cormyr.  Nightmare Eruption.  
Mm, yeah, WWoC makes things BAs doesn't it.  Gets a bit interesting with the number of classes you need to get all the components together (particularly because your probably want Primal Eye for damage), but there's some definite potential there.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Mm, yeah, WWoC makes things BAs doesn't it.  Gets a bit interesting with the number of classes you need to get all the components together (particularly because your probably want Primal Eye for damage), but there's some definite potential there.



Well, you have to be a Wizard to qualify for War Wizard of Cormyr (also have to have Cormyr as one of your backgrounds.)  Primal Eye, you have to be a Seeker.  So, you might be able to hybrid Ranger|Seeker or Ranger|Wizard and pick up the other class as a MC feat.

I think I might try that with my Ranger|Wizard.  I could take the Seeker MC feat at level 11 when I pick up my paragon path.  I think Primal Eye applies to all ranged basic attacks, right?  Or does it only apply to weapon RBAs? 
Pretty sure it's just plain old RBAs.

There's probably a build there.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Somewhere along the line, Primal Eye was errata'd to Dex or Strength, not Dex or Int.  Sad.  I like that idea.

EDIT:  Nevermind, a Ranger | Wizard / Seeker would still have good Dex..
I always liked trying to throw rapid shot on a ranged Slayer, of course you then have no use for any of your encounter powers and will only be making basic attacks.
Yes, it does.

Biting Swarm is probably the best power to cheese out Rapid Shot.


Since Biting Swarm's penalty is untyped does that mean if you hit an enemy with it twice they get -4 to attack rolls?
No.  Game elements do not stack with themselves.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
No.  Game elements do not stack with themselves.



But Nightmare Eruption's splash damage can be dealt over and over with each hit. 
Half-Elf Avenger MC Seeker.

Switch a ranger at-will for Rapid Shot, and at paragon you can oath your primary and have RBA + Dex (again) + Wis dmg. Not great, but it's something.
I would love to actually see a Half-Elf Avenger Versatile Master their Dilettante'd Twin Strike, only to pay a feat to swap it for Rapid Shot.
I would love to actually see a Half-Elf Avenger Versatile Master their Dilettante'd Twin Strike, only to pay a feat to swap it for Rapid Shot.



Could you retrain it to Careful Attack at 11, then swap it?  Then you wouldn't feel as bad about it.

Cry Havoc!  And let slip the hogs of war!

Bugbear Ranger|Rogue\Seeker gives me 1d8+17 for an RBA at +19 v Reflex.

Going Ranger|Exe\Seeker gives me the 1d12+17 at 18v Ref, but I can tack 4d10 for the Assassin Strike, 2d8 for Venom Hand Assasin, 2d8 for Attack Finesse, and still have Twin Strike should the need arise!
No.  Game elements do not stack with themselves.



This isn't quite true as a general rule.  There is, however, a specific rule that says penalties from the same named game element do not stack.
Ahem...  RC, p3.09.  "Bonus"
Bonuses that have no type are called untyped bonuses.  Such bonuses are cumulative.  however, untyped bonuses from the same named game element (such as a power or a feat) are not cumulative; only the highest applies.

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima

Rapid shot says "You make a ranged attack with a weapon...".  How are you using Divine Bolts or Magic Missile with it?  Does it apply if you're using a weapliment?

Yep. I have a sample build of this in my .sig somewhere.

It's ridiculously overpowered.
Ahem...  RC, p3.09.  "Bonus"
Bonuses that have no type are called untyped bonuses.  Such bonuses are cumulative.  however, untyped bonuses from the same named game element (such as a power or a feat) are not cumulative; only the highest applies.


Actually, the relevant bit here is page 29. All penalties are untyped and stack, except for penalties from the same named game element.
Yep.  Bonuses and Penalites alike.

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima

For DPR calcs, how many targets should I assume?

At 3 targets, I'm getting about 100DPR on my first attack.
I'm a fan of one of the builds I helped my boyfriend with...he plays a Dragonborn Sorc | Ranger and does a lot of Dragonfrost + Rapid Shot shenanigans. Since it pushes, he uses Draconic Arrogance to do more damage on a push. It makes for some awesome flavor.

He's set  up with some Eagle Eye Goggles to augment the penalty to attack. Needless to say, when he runs out of encounter powers nobody complains when he starts spamming this.

Honestly, sometimes we prefer him to spam it in the beginning of an encounter if enemies are clustered (or near dangerous terrain)!
Would the War Wizard of Cormyr version work with Hypnotism?  Specifically, would you be able to use Rapid Shot as a way to attack your allies with it?  Because that would be pretty sweet.  Make the enemies in the area attack each other and make your allies attack them too.  Especially now that melee basics can be so good.  You'd be like a super warlord (at-will anyway and without any healing).
No. WWoC only modifies a power with a target of One creature. Hypnotism has a target of One enemy. You might be able to talk your DM into it but it would not work for LFR.
Good point.  Thanks!
Even if the RAW allowed you to use WWOC on hypnotism, it'd still only target enemies, so you can't use it on your mates when you'd rapid shot.

But if you do want to talk your DM into a rapid shot hypnotism anyway, be sure to note that "one enemy" is a subset of "one creature." It fits the RAI neatly that way, it just doesn't hit the RAW squarely on the head.
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