Cavalier: Is It Good?

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I have heard it said that Cavaliers are not the best, mechanically.  I haven't had a chance to play one myself, but I'm about to be making a new character, and Cavalier fits the concept.  I skimmed it in HotFK, and didn't think it looked terrible.  Not astounding, but not terrible.  

So, my questions are:

- Where does the Cavalier really shine?

- Where does the Cavalier stink?

- How good is it as a Defender?

- Does it play nice with a second Defender in the group?

- Would I just be better off reading up on Straladin stuff?

 
Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven. You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool.
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4enclave, a place where 4e fans can talk 4e in peace.
It shines as a hybrid with warlocks in heroic, since it doesn't take up your actions.

It fails in that there isn't as much support for the defender aura as there is for divine challenge.

Not very good

I'd say it plays pretty well with a second defender - especially another aura defender.

Probably. 
Not to sound like everyone else here, but there is a handbook for it. It color-codes what the cavalier's strengths and weaknesses are.

I have never played one, but it seems appealing. Auto-aura that acts as a mark. Auto damage for enemies ignoring your mark.

It gets wrecked against forced movement though.

You might want to look up tge knight as well. Similar, but i prefer the knight's build options.

To answer your last question- straladins are ballin'
There is no reasonNOT to look it up, unless you wish to play the less complicated essentials version (the cavalier)
Not to sound like everyone else here, but there is a handbook for it. It color-codes what the cavalier's strengths and weaknesses are.


I've gone over the handbook.  It's a nice handbook, doubtless of great use if I decide to play a Cavalier.  But I found it was only moderately useful in trying to decide if a Cavalier is actually what I want to play, and not useful enough in that arena to prevent me opening a discussion on it.
Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven. You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool.
Knights of W.T.F.- Silver Spur Winner
4enclave, a place where 4e fans can talk 4e in peace.
Unless your in a char-op game, cavalier is still plenty playable.

Now... if your playing with builds that are on the DPR chart, or are in someone's sig around here, then yea.. It won't keep up.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Cavalier is decent, but horrendously squishy.  It is also exceptionally easy to disable the cavalier's mount, particularly as you start heading further out in tiers.  It requires item support, and that's at your DM's discretion.

Forced movement is a cavalier's bane as well; either shore up those saving throws, or expect someone to attempt to push you off your mount at least once during an encounter.  Holy Smite on a MBA is nice, but if you're running lazy leaders you've likely got a striker that's pulling much more amazing DPR through basics.

I was able to make my cavalier perform some decent action denial, have good positioning and still redirect and protect decently through immediate interrupts, but overall it's Paladin Lite.  The bonuses given through Holy Smite, Righteous Defense and your mount don't nearly make up for the lack of feat support and encounter powers.

There's not nearly enough feat support for MBAs for cavalier vs paladin to justify dropping encounters like you can do with a Knight vs Fighter.

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Our party's cavalier was....allright....then we got a brand new player who never played 4e before who made a warden. The warden's clearly better at pretty much anything tha makes the cavalier good...while being tougher.


The problem is the cavalier has all of the paladin's flaws with very little of its upsides, and lacks acces to many of its good feats imply due to not having the same features, or having a tanked wisdom.


I'm actually in the process of trying to convince the cavalier to switch to paladin for the  good of the party.     
I have similar questions as pashalik, except it being a primary defender and the last question does not apply. Instead of cavalier, I'm wondering about beserker.
The Cavalier is so bad as a defender that if your DM is obeying your aura with standard monsters, you should smack him for condescension.


Ummm... Not really? Sure, a Cavalier's aura doesn't have the support that Divine Challenge has... But it's an opportunity action and requires no action to put up. Especially in heroic and low paragon, a Cavalier's aura can be extremely potent. A Cavalier's aura with no feat or item support is substantially better than a Divine Challenge without feat or item support. And the damage is not inconsiderable; especially when spamming mass radiant vulnerability, you can churn more damage out of an aura than you can out of a Divine Challenge with equal investment. You can trigger it easier and more frequently than Challenge, and it makes you a good deal stickier.

All in all, if you're not planning on optimizing your defender punishment at the expense of everything else, Hybrid Cavalier is better for Charisma melee builds than Hybrid Paladin. Straight-up Cavalier, on the other hand, is little more than a novelty.

I like Cavaliers, but I do think they are far better as hybirds.

Warlock | Cav is a decent comob due to White Lotus shenanigans.

Battlemind | Cav Tiefling is suprisingly good, especially if your DM is willing to let you have the aura up at the start of combat (Speed of Thought right into some bad guys, Samaurai if you need a bit extra movement to get there). Three to four turns of mass making through Divine Sanction powers. Lightning Rush + Aura take care of any issues after you've run out of mass marks.

I've been playing wiht a Warlord  | Cav build that utilizes Samurai and Battlefront Shift to get the same effect as Speed of Thought, but it's a bit of a wonky combo. Good stats for a lazy lord, though. You could techicavlly never attack at all.
Paladins in general seem to do better being a hybrid than its own class (especially compared to other classes) whether it is the cavalier, blackguard, or the original which is hilarious if you consider how difficult it was to do something similar in earlier editions...
Not to mention once up, DC/DS takes no action to punish. You can be stunned and the monster will still take the damage.


Also, why would a paladin not invest in support for their defender feature?  


Also, why would a paladin not invest in support for their defender feature?  



You know, I've often wondered that about the Paladin in my Scales of War group, who just hit 21, and has neither Bitter Challenge or Weakening Challenge, preferring instead to drop radiant vulnerability on our enemies.  I'm not really sure why the DM obeys his DC/DS in the first place.


"You can always judge a man by the quality of his enemies." -The Doctor, Remembrance of the Daleks


Also, why would a paladin not invest in support for their defender feature?  



You know, I've often wondered that about the Paladin in my Scales of War group, who just hit 21, and has neither Bitter Challenge or Weakening Challenge, preferring instead to drop radiant vulnerability on our enemies.  I'm not really sure why the DM obeys his DC/DS in the first place.





Well, with radiant vulnerability they are more vulnerable to DC/DS anyway.
Not to mention once up, DC/DS takes no action to punish. You can be stunned and the monster will still take the damage.


Also, why would a paladin not invest in support for their defender feature?  


That's an argument that people bring up fairly frequently but is never very well thought through. DC and RR are both temporarily halted by stun and other aspects of action denial. With DC, if you can't engage a target, you lose all of your defender features for a round, though you don't lose DC until you end your turn. With RR, you lose your punishment (but not the penalty to attacks) as soon as you can no longer make opps. But you regain it as soon as that condition falls away, and you don't need to take an action to make yourself a defender again. So Cavaliers and OPaladins are affected for about the same duration when afflicted with action denial, but Cavaliers recover from it more efficiently and maintain the -2 the entire time.

Also, it's best not to group DS in with DC for the purposes of this discussion. Cavaliers can access DS just as easily as OPaladins and can actually benefit substantially more because it differs so much from their Aura. Tactical application of Valorous Smite or Paladin's Wrath can help cope with some of the Defender Aura's range issues and greatly reduce the total defending time lost when dazed or stunned.

And of course you're interested in finding support for your defender feature; otherwise, you wouldn't be playing a defender. But Hybrids especially find that they simply don't have the feats and the gold to pump up a defender feature that, initially, is fairly underpowered and ignorable. So when they can turn to a Cavalier and pick up a perfectly serviceable, little investment required Defender Aura that's remarkably action efficient and excellent at constant crowd control... There simply isn't much choice.

But just to toss it out here, there's certainly support for RR; you won't find it conveniently labeled, but it's certainly around. Lancing Gloves (now in common!) work wonders for late Heroic, and radiant vulnerability can really make your aura threatening in Paragon. Rayous is working on a Monk|Cavalier build in the Pictsies thread that makes use of Blistering Flourish and sundry vulnerabilities to reliably deal mid to low-level striker damage with RR to multiple targets.
If a paladin can't engage the target, DC is down for a round, not DS.  It can also get a couple of nice mass DS'ing powers as encounter powers, which the cavalier can't.


Also, D-auras do nothing if you are simply pushed out of the way by another mob (or earlier attack if the enemy spends an action point).  If you're stunned the guy can just shift 1 square, or heck, even just walk, out of your little aura. Also if your Dazed, Unconcious, Dominated, Removed from play, you can't punish, but DC can...even if you can' sustain it the next turn. Note that for RR as soon as you are disabled by a condition or movement, you're useless. DC doesn't expire until the end of your next turn.


Auras also do nothing against teleport. An enemy could teleport infinite squares away and still tak a -2 penalty to attack rolls and take radiant damage for not attacking the paladin. Yes, the next turn, DC might be down for a round, but it still works.


Then you also have nicely buffable heals like lay on hands, access to another daily power.
The Cav is basically all the bad parts of the paladin (paltry mark punishment, very hard to hit otherwise, not terribly threatening) with none of the good bits (easy, ranged mass-marking access; no-action punishment, punishment support, marking and punishing at range).

It's pretty stinky.  The only good bit is the horse.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
With DC, if you can't engage a target, you lose all of your defender features for a round, though you don't lose DC until you end your turn.


Uh, DC's penalty round for failing to engage was errata-ed out a LONG time ago.

Anyway, the only Essentials Defender that works is the Knight, and that only because they can slow with their punishment (Defend the Line). The Cavalier punishment pales in comparison damage-wise and has nothing to add on top of such piddly damage. For the same action cost as the Knight's punishment, at that.
Berserkers can punish solidly at Paragon with Lashing/Dragging/Flail Expertise and either a triple headed flail or a spiked chian.  Slide+Prone is probably better than slow for a mark punishment.  But through heroic they aren't that hot at preventing damage to the party.  Though they can still do the slow/prone WSG thing thanks to Run Down.

They nowhere near as good as Knights through heroic, though.

But yes, the key thing that would make them really work would be making the fury switch work in both directions.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Berserkers who try playing defender in paragon are at best just inferior Knights.



Now, Berserkers who use their defender feature as a striking boost, they're roided strikers. It's funny how it works, that. It's pretty much the reason why the class will be pretty broke if it gets a way to recover their defender aura - being able to spam Barb powers, drop a target, and recover defender hax would be crazy. I can't even begin to imagine the hijinks of a Berserker hybrid if it wasn't nerfed quite heavily.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
Berserkers who try playing defender in paragon are at best just inferior Knights.


LOLWut?  Every played one?

A paragon tier arid berserker with Battle Awareness, a spiked chain, flail expertise, lashing flail, dragging flail, and striking resurgence is a black hole with an event horizon of 8 squares.  24 1/day when you use the martial daily power that expands their aura by 1.

Be a dwarf, take dwarven defender as your paragon path... yeah, you're not going anywhere, and neither is anyone that gets close to you.
Berserkers who try playing defender in paragon are at best just inferior Knights.


LOLWut?  Every played one?

A paragon tier arid berserker with Battle Awareness, a spiked chain, flail expertise, lashing flail, dragging flail, and striking resurgence is a black hole with an event horizon of 8 squares.  24 1/day when you use the martial daily power that expands their aura by 1.

Be a dwarf, take dwarven defender as your paragon path... yeah, you're not going anywhere, and neither is anyone that gets close to you.

Brb, grabbing popcorn.
The only one of those things the Knight can't do is take Battle Awareness. Which it doesn't need to anyway, because it's already a Fighter.

The best thing the Berserker has going for it as a defender over the Knight is its full complement of encounter and daily powers, but apart from the D9 that expands your aura (uselessly, if you don't have Reach), using the best of those disables your defender mechanics.
The Cav is basically all the bad parts of the paladin (paltry mark punishment, very hard to hit otherwise, not terribly threatening) with none of the good bits (easy, ranged mass-marking access; no-action punishment, punishment support, marking and punishing at range).

It's pretty stinky.  The only good bit is the horse.



Fine in heroic:  The mounts are fun.  They are always good for a daze or two per encounter.  Most builds I've seen in action are just standard charge kits. 

I'm always tempted to try one in paragon but the rap they get scare me off.

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Actually, you could make the argument being able to take Battle Awareness is a point in favor of the Berserker over the knight.  It's one source of off-turn attacks the knight can't get, and it can pop on the same turn triggering action as Vengeful Guardian should the Berserker so desire.  No reason for the berserker not to sink its multiclass into that (unless you really want spiked chain training, but reach isn't quite as nice when your have an aura 1).

Both classes have defender aura.

Both classes have great AC.

Both classes punish shifts.  Knight gets a pittance of damage on a miss, berserker get striker bonus damage on a hit.

Both classes qualify for the fun martial feats ouf the box.

Knight gets a slight edge on HP and healing surges.

Berserker may have slight edge on initiative.  (It's probably a wash in paragon.)

Both classes need to spend a feat to poach the best Fighter encounter powers (and can only do it once).

Knight is more accurate out of the box.  (What fighter isn't?)

Berserker has dailies.

Berserker can choose to say, "F this, I'm playing a striker," whenever they want.

Yeah, I'm not really seeing anything that makes the berserker so inferior to the knight in paragon tier.  Most of the things that benefit a striker - accuracy, off-turn attacks, static damage boost - benefit a defender just as much.

Which doubles back to my original point - ever played one?  Based on the hyperbole... I'm betting no.  A defender-oriented berserker is more than capable of holding its own in paragon tier.
I've never played one, so I guess you can ignore this, but I'm pretty sure you left out the bonuses Knights get from stances, weapon choice, and the accompanying upgrade to Power Strike or w/e it's called for Knights.  I get the impression those things are pretty important to a Knight's tactics.

As for the OP's question, I have to agree with those that say the Cav just falls behind with respect to mark punishment.  Divine Challenge has extensive support that really is needed to keep Paladins viable, and they have much easier access to DS as well.  I'd recommend playing a Paladin (or a hybrid Paladin, which I'd prefer to a hybrid Cav).
Note how the Cavalier doesn't even enter into the conversation of essentials defenders who might be able to keep up with non-essentials defenders.

The Knight and the Berserker both have some interesting tricks, but the Cavalier is really left in the dust. You could probably play it and have fun, if your heart is set on it, but you should probably inform your DM that you've selected to take a class that is terribad, and the DM should adjust the threat level accordingly.

(Oh look, the party is being attacked by gumdrop golems again!)
the D9 that expands your aura (uselessly, if you don't have Reach).


Just for the record, the D9 is still useful without reach; it allows you to shift one square before you punish whilst it is active.  More useful WITH reach, but nonetheless.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Not to sound like everyone else here, but there is a handbook for it. It color-codes what the cavalier's strengths and weaknesses are.


I've gone over the handbook.  It's a nice handbook, doubtless of great use if I decide to play a Cavalier.  But I found it was only moderately useful in trying to decide if a Cavalier is actually what I want to play, and not useful enough in that arena to prevent me opening a discussion on it.




Look, if your game is heavily optimized, you want a straladin or something. If it's normal game, anywhere from un-optimized to moderately optimized, the cavalier will do ya fine, and it does play differently than the straladin.

I prefer the cavalier, personally, warts and all. To me, it's a more engaging and fun class to play.
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I had a lot of fun with a Runepriest|Cavalier hybrid that used the Word of Diminishment at-will to make Righteous Radiance more scary (vuln 5 against OAs). It wasn't the only trick of course, the Hybrid Talent was Runemaster, so his staying adjacent to the targets not only meant defending but leading too, and had this awesome "forsaken nightly order" feel about it, thanks to the combination of his powers... And probably also because he was a Bahamut-worshipping Vryloka

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Campaigns and Characters:
Zendikar: Covenant of The Forgotten Relics
- Cylonea: Merfolk (Elemental Priest) Shaman(World Speaker)/Artificer --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff
- Vurokk Dahvre: Shade (Escaped Slave) Blackguard of Fury --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)
Nature's Allies
- Carwyn Sihderfein: Half-Elf (Tuathan) Blackguard of Domination / Binder of Gloom --> Sheet, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)

Word of Diminishment's vulnerability applies only to Opportunity Attacks.

It has 2 vulns.
1 generic vuln.
1 OA specific vuln.

But yea, you only get the smaller vuln, since it's not an oppertunity attack.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Word of Diminishment's vulnerability 5 applies only to Opportunity Attacks. Righteous Radiance is not an opportunity attack, it is an opportunity action, and the vulnerability does not apply. So, yeah, things do tend to get somewhat better when you cheat, but that's not much of a point in its favor.


Cheating??? Please don't report me for going personal, here's it's objective truth: Erachima, I wouldn't be surprised if you were an advanced Artifical Intelligence: you just parse the words and calculate logic conclusions, Rules As Intended being what, a system error to you? Come on now, tell me what in the nine hells wouldn't make Righteous Radiance an Opportunity Attack, since it deals damage. I guess you also don't consider Monk's Flurry an attack right? Features have been officially if not completely made into powers and Powers divided into Attacks and Utility, and what deals damage is an Attack. We're playing a pen and paper game, not a digital game where each action should be validated by a word parser: Righteous Radiance is by all means an attack, and being an Opportunity Action, it is an Opportunity Attack. If it didn't do damage, I'd agree with you completely, but no. Can you say "RAW is not as right as RAI sometimes?"?

Join the Zendikar D&D Campaign Setting group: discover the fantastic world and contribute to make Zendikar a playable setting!
   - Warning! Spectacular visuals and lore ahead! ... Take a look...
Play-by-Post and my D&D blogging!

*All my latest rolls!*

Campaigns and Characters:
Zendikar: Covenant of The Forgotten Relics
- Cylonea: Merfolk (Elemental Priest) Shaman(World Speaker)/Artificer --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff
- Vurokk Dahvre: Shade (Escaped Slave) Blackguard of Fury --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)
Nature's Allies
- Carwyn Sihderfein: Half-Elf (Tuathan) Blackguard of Domination / Binder of Gloom --> Sheet, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)

Except for the part where an Opportunity Attack is a defined power. Also, the knight has far more reason to make the argument than a Cavalier does since it is wholesale doing the same thing as an opportunity attack while it still not actually using it.
Except for the part where an Opportunity Attack is a defined power. Also, the knight has far more reason to make the argument than a Cavalier does since it is wholesale doing the same thing as an opportunity attack while it still not actually using it.

Again, RAW are not as right as RAI sometimes. They're attacks, they're opportunity. Ask Customer Support, let's see if they don't tell you it's ok to consider them Opportunity Attacks. In the very improbable case they'd tell to stick to RAW, I think it's obvious that they would take note and fix that in a later update. What really matters is recognizing that for all extents, RAI differ from RAW here, and the former are more logic, and, most importantly, how the game is meant to be played. 

EDIT: The case of the Knight actually exposes the obviousness of the Rule as Intended, and constitutes a solid analogy and basis to consider Righteous Radiance an Opportunity Attack.

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- Cylonea: Merfolk (Elemental Priest) Shaman(World Speaker)/Artificer --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff
- Vurokk Dahvre: Shade (Escaped Slave) Blackguard of Fury --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)
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This has ceased to make any logical sense, this conversation.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Whats RAW and RAI?
Whats RAW and RAI?


Rules As Written & Rules As Intended
This has ceased to make any logical sense, this conversation.


Because of something I said? Please point out what would that be in particular if you think that's the case, because on the contrary I don't see any logic in not considering Righteous Radiance an Opportunity Attack, especially for the sake of a simple rule such as Vulnerability. 

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Campaigns and Characters:
Zendikar: Covenant of The Forgotten Relics
- Cylonea: Merfolk (Elemental Priest) Shaman(World Speaker)/Artificer --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff
- Vurokk Dahvre: Shade (Escaped Slave) Blackguard of Fury --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)
Nature's Allies
- Carwyn Sihderfein: Half-Elf (Tuathan) Blackguard of Domination / Binder of Gloom --> Sheet, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)

Opportunity Attack is a specific power, period.
It has nothing to do with different powers that eat the same Action Type. It would be the same claiming that any Interrupt power is a Combat Challenge attack, because they're both Interrupts, so I can use every CC feat on a random Interrupt power. Makes no sense, ever.

The Knight doesn't make a case, at all, and it was wrong mentioning it. Its punishement eats an Opportunity Action but it's NOT an Opportunity Attack. An Opportunity Attack is *that* power, with *those* conditions.

Customer Support is not a rule source. Wizards itself never stated anything like that. Claiming you can ask CS for rules clarification would be the exact same as asking a random guy along the street, their authority is equal - which means, zero.
Opportunity Attack is a specific power, period.
It has nothing to do with different powers that eat the same Action Type. It would be the same claiming that any Interrupt power is a Combat Challenge attack, because they're both Interrupts, so I can use every CC feat on a random Interrupt power. Makes no sense, ever.

The Knight doesn't make a case, at all, and it was wrong mentioning it. Its punishement eats an Opportunity Action but it's NOT an Opportunity Attack. An Opportunity Attack is *that* power, with *those* conditions.

Customer Support is not a rule source. Wizards itself never stated anything like that. Claiming you can ask CS for rules clarification would be the exact same as asking a random guy along the street, their authority is equal - which means, zero.

Hahahah! You guys crack me up. You want to play the game according to rules that are made incoherent by little more than typos, without caring about what the developers had in mind when designing the game. Fine with me. It's like saying you go inside a car and touch every control in the way your car manual says but then don't actually go anywhere cause the manual doesn't say you can actually do that!
Last thing I'll say, the case you made is completely different, if not opposite: you're implying I'm making a general rule more sepcific (Any Immediate Interrupt = Combat Challenge) while I'm saying exactly the opposite (Any Righteous Radiance or Opportunity Action using Defender mechanic that deals damage = Opportunity Attack). So it was your reasoning that didn't make sense, not mine.
Another point that gives logic to my reasonment is that Opportunity Attack is a named power just because everyone should be able to perform it, but that's the general rule, overridden/flanked by any more specific rule (aka power) your character might have. Just as the Basic Attack and the powers that can be used as Basic Attacks. They didn't specify it clearly for the Opportunity "Action Attacks", because they probably thought nobody would have been as nitpicky as you are, but I'm sure the developers would gladly specify that if they witnessed this misunderstanding of such a simple concept. You say it's speculation? Then you're also implying we could discover the truth by asking. But "strangely enough" you said CS is not a source of rulings! If you want to protect your digitally-parsable perfect rules world, go ahead. I'll have fun in the meantime and be totally sure I'm playing the game as it was intended by the developers.

Last note: remember that Rules As Written change and are updated to match Rules As Intended, the reverse thing never happens.


Join the Zendikar D&D Campaign Setting group: discover the fantastic world and contribute to make Zendikar a playable setting!
   - Warning! Spectacular visuals and lore ahead! ... Take a look...
Play-by-Post and my D&D blogging!

*All my latest rolls!*

Campaigns and Characters:
Zendikar: Covenant of The Forgotten Relics
- Cylonea: Merfolk (Elemental Priest) Shaman(World Speaker)/Artificer --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff
- Vurokk Dahvre: Shade (Escaped Slave) Blackguard of Fury --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)
Nature's Allies
- Carwyn Sihderfein: Half-Elf (Tuathan) Blackguard of Domination / Binder of Gloom --> Sheet, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)

Opportunity Attacks and Opportunity Actions have been around since the very start of 4e. They are well defined and distinct. Are you really arguing that they simply haven't gotten around to updating them yet?
hybrid cavalier and monk, use blistering flourish, add cha to your aura punishment again, profit.

Its sad, but cavalier is one of the best hybrid classes but i would never play a non hybrid version.