Houseruling the Elementalist

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So as most of Char Op agrees, the Elementalist is resoundly underwhelming.  If you are one of the few that like it, that's great for you, but from a char op standpoint I think it is significantly underpowered.  The absence of Dailies, better encounters, and utilities just completely makes it obsolete in my eyes for any type of combat that you'd like to stay relevant at and do your job as a striker.

That being said, this isnt a thread to berate Elementalists but rather I wanted an opinion from the Char Op vets (and the like), on a house rule I'm thinking of implementing with my group.  As such Elementalists would be just the same as Sorcerers written as the following:

Show

Spell Source:
Elementalist Magic
Elemental Power:
You gain a bonus to the damage rolls of arcane powers equal to your Constitution modifier. The bonus equals your Constitution modifier + 2 at 11th level and your Constitution modifier + 4 at 21st level.
Elemental Resilience:
While you are not wearing heavy armor, you can use your Constitution modifier in place of your Dexterity or Intelligence modifier to determine your AC.
Elemental Specialty: You gain an elemental prowess of your choice (Choose from Air, Fire, Water, or Earth)
      Take the Elemental Bolt At-Will (Mandatory at will power)
      Your second At-will becomes a choice of 2 based on the elemental specialty you have.
      Gain all other Specialty associated powers as written

You can choose to take the Elemental Escalation as an Encounter. 


As some usually say; 2 cp for your thoughts? 
Thats a good idea but what if you use a power point like system similar to some psionic classes, on the levels they were supposed to gain encouter powers they gain an extra sorcerer at-will, up to 3, or can replace one, and at certain levels they gain an extra use of the elemental escalation, the augment factor, and they get thier dailies back, but those can not be augmented, as normal.
First biggest thing they're missing: resistance piercing.

Second biggest thing they're missing: meaningful daily powers to give them some kind of nova.

Unfortunately, your proposed house rules address neither of those flaws.
There's a wonderful homebrew forum that would be a more adequate arena in which to field this particular concern.
The Elementalist, while probably boring, is definitely an adequate class. A good built elementalist can easily reach over 45 DPR at level 16, which is something not all classes are able to. Fortunately Arcane Admixture solves also the resistance/immunity problems, while in a costy way.

Chauntea/Lathander/Torm Cleric since 1995 My husband married a DM - καλὸς καὶ ἀγαθός

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/14.jpg)

wow ur right they actually have no way to pierce resistances which i dont get, pyromancer mages literally ignore resistance to fire when using fire powers, and they get this from level 1, and even dragon sorceres ignore resistance up to there resistance level, but elementalists have to deal with resistances, that makes no sense.
Doubly so because every Striker except the Vampire and played-as-intended Bladesinger hit that benchmark with trivial ease, too.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
like ur DPR needs to be somewhere near amazing to justify having no novas
this class seems like half made or desperatly in need of a buff to be playable they lost so much and at the end of the day what they got in return did not cover what they lost they got nothing that made them better at their job
The Elementalist, while probably boring, is definitely an adequate class. A good built elementalist can easily reach over 45 DPR at level 16, which is something not all classes are able to. Fortunately Arcane Admixture solves also the resistance/immunity problems, while in a costy way.



Just having OK DPR at a certain level isn't enough to make a class good, Naus. Particularly since classes without novas need their DPR well above "OK" to make up the difference.



You are right, but i was judging it as "adequate". And, well, yes. Nova is an issue. But a 200-ish AP nova isn't so bad.

Chauntea/Lathander/Torm Cleric since 1995 My husband married a DM - καλὸς καὶ ἀγαθός

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/14.jpg)

Has anyone looked at Elementalist DPR in comparison to a Slayer that doesn't abuse the charge package or KAM?

I have a feeling they'll be pretty close.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Hmm, I can average 85-114 DPR with a L16 elementalist without APs (close to a standard per round, which is plenty fast enough for normal play). I wouldn't be surprised if you could Op up a tiefling fire elementalist to do more, maybe take a theme to add vulnerability or extra damage.

Ability to nova can vary a bit - stuff like getting a Speed Dagger can help Also, you're solid bait for a warlord to grant attacks to, with no restrictions on your striker bonus damage and solid range.

Higher level elementalists can also daze(&prone), slide(&blind) 2-3 enemies every single round, which is solid control. Some of which can make you very likely to get opportunity attacks or white lotus ripostes.
Keith Richmond Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
First biggest thing they're missing: resistance piercing.

Second biggest thing they're missing: meaningful daily powers to give them some kind of nova.

Unfortunately, your proposed house rules address neither of those flaws.



I'm surprised this thread was rekindled, I thought it just kind of died and I was going to let it.  Anyway, that being the case, you're completely correct on the first point, resistance piercing.  Unfortunately not sure what would be an accurate countermeasure without overpowering them.  However your second point (meaningful daily powers), is handled by my custom version, because my version works as the standard Sorcerer now, just using the points I mentioned as the new spell source.  No new at-wills earned, at the cost of instead acquiring Dailys from the normal Sorcerer attack pool.
My Elementalist Houserule

Step One:  Give "level 1" to all of the newly printed at-will powers, so the standard Sorcerer can take them.

Step Two:  Turn Elemental Magic into a source for the PHB2 Sorcerer, with resistance at first level and resistance piercing, +con to damage, con for AC, etc.

Step Three:  Add Elemental Magic riders onto Elemental Bolt that cause the Enhanced Elemental Bolt damage type changes.  Add other riders based on the other souls to Elemental Bolt to change it to appropriate damage types:  Dragon Magic causes the type you chose for Dragon Soul; Wild Magic causes either randomly determined on cast (like Energy Strobe) or whatever your Wild Soul is at the moment, haven't decided yet; Storm Magic gives a choice of either lightning or thunder (can't be changed); Cosmic Magic gives the type matching the resistance granted by your current phase.

Step Four:  Elemental Escalation can be chosen as an encounter power at any level you could choose an encounter power.  It can be taken multiple times but does not auto-scale in damage or effects.  Paragon and epic versions are distinct and isolated.  No longer adds another target to the attack (This is necessary to pull down total power output due to the presence of dailies).


Doing this would open up the juicy at-will powers to the rest of the Sorcerers, giving them a much needed bump, provide resistance piercing that's necessary for element-focused play to work, maintain daily power novas, and still maintain the 'simple' option for people who want it.

Of course, since I'm a DM for my local group and nearly all my VT play is LFR, I'll never get to actually play one, but hey.  It's a useful exercise in class design.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
yeah sorcerers do need a boost cause wizards just crush them, the ability to ignore resistance is just to good to just get at level 1

I wouldnt make the elementalist powers level 1 powers i would leave them as elementalist only powers and then change the way they level to be similar to a power point class so they can gain and change sorcerer at-wills at the same levels power point classes do, up to 3 without paragon path or racial ability, and they gain an extra use of the elemental escalation power at the levels where power points are gained, also they get the use of sorcerer dailies, and i would say they get to ignore resistane to thier element up to there resistance and change the wording of the resistance to say if you already have resistance to that element it is increased by 5 or something.  Also maybe add the rider for elemental bolt to all elementalist powers of your elemental focus, but that might be really op so im not sure.
Hmm, I can average 85-114 DPR with a L16 elementalist without APs (close to a standard per round, which is plenty fast enough for normal play). I wouldn't be surprised if you could Op up a tiefling fire elementalist to do more, maybe take a theme to add vulnerability or extra damage.

Ability to nova can vary a bit - stuff like getting a Speed Dagger can help Also, you're solid bait for a warlord to grant attacks to, with no restrictions on your striker bonus damage and solid range.

Higher level elementalists can also daze(&prone), slide(&blind) 2-3 enemies every single round, which is solid control. Some of which can make you very likely to get opportunity attacks or white lotus ripostes.

If possible, could you post that build?

Also, I would imagine that there's a bit of Op potential in an elementalist based around Rapid Shot.
yeah sorcerers do need a boost cause wizards just crush them, the ability to ignore resistance is just to good to just get at level 1


You do realize non-elementalist sorcerers get resistance piercing at level 1, right?
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Hmm, difficult to do now (was never in char builder), though if I get time I can try and toss something together.

But, some easy routes:
Feats: Appropriate Superior Implement, Appropriate Expertise, Dual Implement Spellcaster, Feat Damage Bonus, White Lotus (Master) Riposte - probably Energy Admixture, maybe Sorcerous Blade Channeling if you intend to set up OAs
PPath Academy Master (plenty of other solid options, but it's direct)

RBA Spammer
Add on Devastating Critical
At 16th, considered Melegaunt's Darkblade +4, and either a Speed +3 or generic +3, Eagle Eye Goggles +2, Bracers of Perfect Shot +4, Gloves of Blood +4

Burster
Add on Resounding Thunder, Echoes of Thunder - probably War Wizardry 
At 16th, considered Staff of Ruin +3, either Speed +3 or generic +3, Executioner Bracers +2d6, Gloves of Blood +4, Ring of Giants

I mean, not hardcore optimization. I also counted the escalate 2nd target as .75 of a target for the spammer, so technically higher if you count it for full value but harder to predict that.

Some variance depending on race and theme chosen.
Keith Richmond Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
Well, you get four Escalations by then, so for four rounds out of an encounter you're getting an extra target (well, as long as there is a second target) and more damage.  Didn't someone do an analysis at some point about typical combat lengths?
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
yeah they levl 1 non elemental sorcerers get resistance piercing at level 1, which is another argument for why elementalists shoudl get it, however its only up to their resistance level pyromancer and necromancer wizards literally ignore all reistance to thier element at level one they dont pierce it they just ignore all of it.
Just noticed, wouldn't the feat "Sorcerous Reserves" work for Elementalists in a brutal fashion?  It basically gives them a free +1 to attack, because they lack any daily attack powers.  Anyone else think this would be a permanent +1 to stack on top once they hit paragon?
If you don't have any daily attack powers, they can't be expended.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
And here I was thinking I found a clever loophole.  Le' sigh.

I really want the elementalist to be better, or at least just match purely the power of a O-Sorcerer.  Such a shame.  That resistance piercing thing really is such a pain. 
Sadly it shows up in just about every elementalist discussion, but yeah, no 

You want to know the really depressing part?  Even without resistance piercing the Elementalist is ahead of the Sorcerer.  It's not like Sorcs had any decent novas to begin with.  Losing dailies isn't a big deal.  I played a 5th level Elementalist on the VT recently, mildly optimized, and the damage output was actually rather significant.  Better than the sorcerers I had played before.  Now, I did pick Air, which gets around much of the resistance issues, but there isn't too much in the way of resistances at heroic anyway, and by Paragon you can admix them to oblivion.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Sorcerous Reserves doesn't work, but arcane spellfury definitely does. But hitting is not a problem, especially since you have all the RBA package: at level 16 i had +26 to hit.

The big issue is nova. Today Erachima made me change my mind about this subclass: it definitely needs an extra punch.

Chauntea/Lathander/Torm Cleric since 1995 My husband married a DM - καλὸς καὶ ἀγαθός

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/14.jpg)

The DPR Kings thread uses 2-round, 5-round, and 10-round benchmarks. And yeah, you get 4 escalations plus your paragon path powers.

The Elementalist and O-Sorc are comparable enough, though an optimized sorcerer should move ahead a little bit from 25+ due to dailies. Though I think people tend to not give the sorcerer enough credit on these boards. An O-Sorc might do 500-800 damage with a Cloak of Winter Storm or Entropic Whirlwind, and there's nothing wrong with that
Keith Richmond Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
you can admixture but thats a few feats u shouldnt really have to take, every other sorcerer gets piercing why dont you, I honestly think they at least should get that, maybe not the dailies element escilation gets pretty good at the higher levels, but i could honestly still see an argument for giving them the dailies.  I just feel like they need something extra to push them into the realm of mattering and not having certain, and very common situations just cripple them
First biggest thing they're missing: resistance piercing.

Second biggest thing they're missing: meaningful daily powers to give them some kind of nova.

Unfortunately, your proposed house rules address neither of those flaws.



I'm surprised this thread was rekindled, I thought it just kind of died and I was going to let it.  Anyway, that being the case, you're completely correct on the first point, resistance piercing.  Unfortunately not sure what would be an accurate countermeasure without overpowering them.  However your second point (meaningful daily powers), is handled by my custom version, because my version works as the standard Sorcerer now, just using the points I mentioned as the new spell source.  No new at-wills earned, at the cost of instead acquiring Dailys from the normal Sorcerer attack pool.

I'd keep the Elemental Escalation, just due to the fact that it's pretty vital to the concept of the class.  I'd give them dailies back (since they never really got anything in return for giving them up), and give them a real Spell Source feature with piercing.

Another idea I had in place of dailies was a power similar to EE that allowed you to use an at-will as a minor. You'd gain uses of this in place of daily powers. It would keep the whole at-will spamming concept intact, and help their nova capablity as well. But it might be a little tougher to write up than just giving them regular dailies.
you can admixture but thats a few feats u shouldnt really have to take, every other sorcerer gets piercing why dont you, I honestly think they at least should get that, maybe not the dailies element escilation gets pretty good at the higher levels, but i could honestly still see an argument for giving them the dailies.  I just feel like they need something extra to push them into the realm of mattering and not having certain, and very common situations just cripple them

 You're an elementalist, not a sorcerer. You get different features. Like an extra 4 damage on top of your arcane powers and better and more at-wills, that sometimes turn into better encounters. And some extra movement modes, cause teleporting half your speed at-will is fun. And random bonuses vs ongoing and defense bonuses, etc.

But you lose dailies and piercing, which is a big deal, it's true. Your nova capability is lower, though you're in very good shape if combats do actually go 3-5 rounds instead of ending in 1 or 2.

Resistance, though, it's really not a big deal. Ignition, Deluge, and Erupting Earth are untyped damage, storm sorcs do lightning or thunder. Decent chance you want admixture Thunder for your burst _anyways_ to work with Resounding Thunder. Earth does acid, untyped, and thunder, for example, and you can snag 1 or 2 other at-wills. You'll be fine.
Keith Richmond Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
Elementalists do get things in exchange for the dailies.  Enhanced Elemental Bolt shouldn't be overlooked, the powers themselves are straight up superior, and Elemental Escalation is vastly more powerful than nearly any Sorcerer encounter power due to the additional target line.  The elementalist damage bonus is also stronger than the sorcerer damage bonus.

Is it enough in exchange for dailies?  Well, not compared to the high-DPR strikers, no.  But as far as non-multiattack strikers go, the Elementalist is no slouch.  I'd put it solidly above most Warlock builds, to use its closest analogue.  It's definitely higher DPR than a standard Sorcerer over a modestly-long fight where you're not spamming dailies.  If you just granted dailies to the Elementalist, it would be much stronger than the Sorcerer.

I'd argue that Elementalist+Dailies is what the Sorcerer should have been from the start, but characterizing the Elementalist as not having gotten any benefit for losing dailies is rather inaccurate.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
I'd have to see some hard numbers defending how much better EE is than regular encounter powers like Flame Spiral (which admittedly is probably the best of them).  Plenty of sorcerer powers give movement and whatnot, so the real comparison is the damage they can do, and how it's distributed.

In the end, you have a class that can't focus fire very well and can't really nova, which is always going to put them in the lower ranks of strikers around here. I'll admit that they do indeed receive things for what they've lost - but I don't believe they get enough to justify what they lose.  You wanna blow up that BBEG that just walked in the door? Well, too bad. Your best trick just does an extra d10 to him.

Personally, I'd play one as-is, because the folks I play with aren't optimizers and don't care about DPR. I like the class, but from an Op perspective I think it struggles to do what a striker is ideally supposed to do.
with like a quick glance, I think elemental escalation at level 27 is like 5d10+mods and sorcerer encounter powers, two highest i saw, are like 4d10 or 3d12 +mods at the same level yeah its one dice+4 more damage at the minimum but thats not really enough to justify the loss of the dailies
Don't forget to add Con.

The fact that you get "toughness" for free and double the surges should be counted.

As as nova...  revenant + star-favored champion (+ reliable auto-missing encounter power) = 4 RBA's per turn.

Or load up on quickshot crossbows. 

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

"not as good as overpowered-to-the-point-of-bent forced movement damaging zone abuse" is not my criteria for something to compare to.

Are we really to the point where anything that isn't un-errata'd forced movement+damaging zone, charge-spam, KAM-ing multiattackers is "bad"?

The elementalist is solidly in the middle of the 'normal' striker builds that don't utilize the things we as CharOp know are the remaining loopholes in design.  That's a good target for any new class to be aimed at. 

Does anyone really think that a fresh, new class should compete with the top-tier, exploitative builds?  Does anyone really think the presence of those builds is good for the game?
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
As far as I'm concerned, the Elementalist has the same problems most essentials classes do - it's all at-will optimization at the cost of any versatility or nova-round capability. It's neat to play with and reasonably middle-of-the-road optimizable but I'll cross my fingers they release a hybrid before they stop publishing 4E content.
I'll second that.  Hybrid Hexblade, Berserker and Elementalist would be damn nifty.

Probably not going to happen, though.  They don't want other classes getting access to pact weapons, so the hexblade already had its shot.  And there aren't that many new builds, so I don't see a second hybrid/multiclass article being viable.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Are we really to the point where anything that isn't un-errata'd forced movement+damaging zone, charge-spam, KAM-ing multiattackers is "bad"?

Some char-oppers definatly have that opinion.

But i agree.  Nothing wrong with the elemenalist as is.
(piercing would of probably been good, but meh, it's more then the witch gets).


And more so, it's plenty optimizable.  Like half-elf + divine bolts + power of arcana.  Direct the strike warlord.  Eagle eye goggles...

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Half-elf Rapid Shot burst bolt looks fun enough.
And I second the OP potential. While not as cheezed out as MBAs, RBAs have more leg room than a regular ranged attack power. Its only lacking cause its not through a bow, but hey, moonbow dedicate fixes that.
Half-elf Rapid Shot burst bolt looks fun enough. And I second the OP potential. While not as cheezed out as MBAs, RBAs have more leg room than a regular ranged attack power. Its only lacking cause its not through a bow, but hey, moonbow dedicate fixes that.


It's not going to be much better, if at all, than just using a Greatbow on a Hunter MC Seeker.  Same damage die, but the Hunter can nearly match the static damage (MC Seeker) while being more accurate (Weapon vs NAD).

ArcaneOp may be enough to push it over the edge, but the more I think about this the more I wonder how a sufficiently-opped Hunter isn't nearly always better than an Elemenalist...


p.s. Rapid Shot is not an eligible power for Dilettante.  You'd have to PMC to get it.  MC Ranger doesn't get the job done, as you don't have an at-will to swap via Archery Mastery (seriously?  that's the name of the feat?)
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Hmm, assuming you're trying for most damage (Fire), then you're looking at 2d12+1d6+3d10+ongoing 10 at 3 higher to hit and maybe even 9-12 more static damage... so it's actually a _lot_ more than "1 die" different, probably a good 50% more damage on a target vs target basis, but the O-Sorc gets 3 targets instead of 2 targets, so that'll wash. Especially if you consider that some of the O-Sorc's powers are doing 3d8, but a surprising number are doing 1 or 2d6.

That said, I do think that the status effects are a big deal and should not be discounted. I mean, tossing out daze, prone, and nobody is next to you to two targets every single round is kinda like having two-target stun for every round of the combat.

I don't think they need houserules to count as effective in all but the most optimal games. In which case they could kit up with charge gear and go KAM ;)

And honestly, a kitted out RBA with 1 or 2 minor action RBAs to throw around is a fair nova. 2-round nova of 2 escalates and 3-4 RBAs, with the free action RBA on crit and ability to move crits around, is still plenty enough to drop an elite and standard.

P.S. All this devil's advocating is making me tempted to play one ;) 
Keith Richmond Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
p.s. Rapid Shot is not an eligible power for Dilettante.  You'd have to PMC to get it.  MC Ranger doesn't get the job done, as you don't have an at-will to swap via Archery Mastery (seriously?  that's the name of the feat?)



Dilettante any ranger power->Versatile Mastery->Archery Mastery.  Still can't get it until Paragon, though.

This could also be used to get Clever Shot, which could also augment Elemental Bolt, and, I think, when combined with Sorcerous Blade Channeling, would be one way to trigger the KAM OA, although maybe there's an easier way of getting the elementalist a melee at-will that prones.
Dilettante: At 1st level, you choose a 1st-level at-will attack power from a class different from yours. You can use that power as an encounter power.

Versatile Master: Benefit: You can use the power you chose through your Dilettante racial trait as an at-will power.

Archery Mastery (still bothered by that name, dammit): Prerequisite: Any ranger at-will attack power that has a level
Benefit: Choose one of your ranger at-will attack powers that has a level. You lose that power and gain one of the powers granted by the Expert Archer class feature.

I'm not sure this works.  There seem to be a few different potential results...bringing this over to RQ&A.
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