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     Hey all

     I've followed many the forums on this game.  Many things have been said; many accurate, many not.  


But, since it's been formally announced in so many words that Duels of the Planeswalker 2012 has received its final update, I have to honestly say, "Once, shame on you, twice, shame on me."  I wasn't too happy with the first installment of the game, and I even told myself I wouldn't buy the second game.  Guess what, I bought the second game without thought.  Then, I did the same thing most of the community did, I cried to Wizards of the Coast about how much this game sucks, and said, “How could you treat your fans like this?"  But I failed to realize one point that a few before me I must say had mentioned.  NOBODY SAYS ANYTHING TO STAINLESS GAMES!!!!!  Wizards of the Coast in so many words are just the name, MAGIC.  Stainless makes everything we see and experience in both games, because they developed it.  I personally realized yelling at Wizards of the Coast is like yelling at an author for a movie about their book sucks.  The author, like Wizards has no control how the Developer (or producers) decides to interpret the game (book).  


I know you could argue, "How could they let such a bad game carry the name of magic?"  My opinion--money.  Back to the point, I, like I'm sure other have or will, will write all my complaints to the proper place--Stainless.  Why doesn't Stainless have a forum page?  If they do can you post a link?  Every complaint any of you have ever had about either game, tell Stainless they suck.  I think I can say we all like or love Magic: The Gathering.  Don't tell Wizards of the Coast! We are just making them the middle man for us.


Here is Stainlessgames homepage:


www.stainlessgames.com/home/go/


            Here is the e-mail:


corporate@stainlessgames.com


Read Stainless news, they are planning future games, let’s not be disappointed a third time.  Send them a message, and send them the links to OUR forums.

Hey all

     This is what I sent Stainlessgames!!!

Duels of the Planeswalker 2012 is terrible.  Your Team needs to read and contact community!!!!!!



Go through the Wizard of the Coast forums!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Your company sucks and I refuse to buy your next installment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey all one more thought

     Also, let Microsoft know that your unhappy.  Mircosoft in my "opinion," is the true person to tell.  Many of the members here mention that there are glitches that break the game?  Demend a refund to Mircosoft, even if it's only the points you spent!  You are a customer, and you are an unhappy cutomer.  You're intitled to a refund people.  Money losses equal change people, no joke.  I work for a large shipping company, and when we start lossing money (i.e. injuries, cost, hours), things begin to change.  I will call Microsoft tomorrow, and let everybody know what happens.  Trust if I get a refund, I will let the community know. I won't bring up the issue again, and the next post I make will let the community know the status of my refund.
People worked very hard on this game. You may have disliked the game, but it's a stretch to call it terrible. They made an engine that let's  you play magic. It's a video game that you paid ten bucks for. If you didn't get ten dollars of enjoyment out of it then don't buy the next one. There is no reason to harrass the developers. 
I've removed content from this thread because Baiting is a violation of the Code of Conduct.  You can review the Code of Conduct here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_...

Please keep your posts polite, respectful, and on-topic, and refrain from calling people Shill's.

You're welcome to disagree but please do so in a respectful way!

If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the "Report Post" button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.

Thanks!
I believe that Stainless is contractually prohibited from having direct contact with the game community on these boards.  Beyond that, I don't think they're legally allowed to talk about game errors and the decision to fix them, because that decision is not made by Stainless, but by Wizards.  So you can complain about how terrible their QC process is, and how inept their coders might be (it's debatable if this is a fair criticism, but some folks make it), but if you want to complain about not listening to customers, you need to talk to Wizards.

Good luck with that.
Btw, no slight to you Booker, but everytime I see an ORC post some moderating correction on these boards, on threads lamenting, shouting, and condemning the lack of attention and effort on the part of Wizards, it generates equal amounts of irritation and irony.

     Hey all

     I've followed many the forums on this game.  Many things have been said; many accurate, many not.  


But, since it's been formally announced in so many words that Duels of the Planeswalker 2012 has received its final update, I have to honestly say, "Once, shame on you, twice, shame on me."  I wasn't too happy with the first installment of the game, and I even told myself I wouldn't buy the second game.  Guess what, I bought the second game without thought.  Then, I did the same thing most of the community did, I cried to Wizards of the Coast about how much this game sucks, and said, “How could you treat your fans like this?"  But I failed to realize one point that a few before me I must say had mentioned.  NOBODY SAYS ANYTHING TO STAINLESS GAMES!!!!!  Wizards of the Coast in so many words are just the name, MAGIC.  Stainless makes everything we see and experience in both games, because they developed it.  I personally realized yelling at Wizards of the Coast is like yelling at an author for a movie about their book sucks.  The author, like Wizards has no control how the Developer (or producers) decides to interpret the game (book).  


I know you could argue, "How could they let such a bad game carry the name of magic?"  My opinion--money.  Back to the point, I, like I'm sure other have or will, will write all my complaints to the proper place--Stainless.  Why doesn't Stainless have a forum page?  If they do can you post a link?  Every complaint any of you have ever had about either game, tell Stainless they suck.  I think I can say we all like or love Magic: The Gathering.  Don't tell Wizards of the Coast! We are just making them the middle man for us.


Here is Stainlessgames homepage:


www.stainlessgames.com/home/go/


            Here is the e-mail:


corporate@stainlessgames.com


Read Stainless news, they are planning future games, let’s not be disappointed a third time.  Send them a message, and send them the links to OUR forums.




Almost everything in this post is factually wrong.  For instance, as the MTG license owners, Wizards is most likely the only entity that has any say in the content of the product.  They certainly have final say.

Also, with respect to Microsoft, you are not "intitled" to a refund.  If I'm not mistaken, every piece of downloadable content on XBLA warns that "there are no refunds for this item."  As usual, buyer beware.

Hey all

     Just wanted to let everybody know that I called Microsoft today, and just got off the phone.  I recieved a full refund for game (800), expansion (400), and each DecK (240x3) total 1920.  It was kinda of a lony hold, 30 min for the entire event.  But, Microsoft was very understanding.  This is the truth take as it is, and I will not post again on this page unless prompted.

      @ORC-Booker  I'm sorry if something I said was out of line, and could you please specify what I said exactly that is against the Code of Conduct,
     this is the first time I've ever posted in a forum, believe it or not. I'm sorry to you and the community.

     @ raresquare You're right, the game isn't terrible.  Let me clearify, this whole situtation was terrible, i.e. customer relations, etc.  The community     has been not so happy for a while about this game, and what's terrible is the way the community is treated.

     @jetjaguar2000 I'm sorry, but I didn't state a single fact.  Everything I said was an opinion or a thought, so I promise I said something "factually        wrong."  Opinion aren't always right, I need forums and people like you to keep it real, but I wasn't tryin to preach, and I'm sorry if it sounded like that all!

     
      
 
 
Yeah, Terrible is a humongous stretch. If you go to that extreme your opinion will probably be discarded.

Regarding the refund, I can support not buying the next edition for whatever reason, but I'm not sure I see anything that would cause me to support a refund other than to simply get rid of a noisy customer. That happens all the time and is valid but doesn't mean the game wasn't worth what you paid.

The only thing close to that would be the release of MoS in '09 IMO.
They also have a facebook page that you can follow:  Stainless Games Ltd...they don't have many followers so that may mean you will have a larger chance to be heard.  Not sure how much they check their Facebook but it's worth a try.

     @ xMrSaturdayx

     Thank you for the info, I will check it out.  I just recently made a facebook page, so I will definitly use that median.  Thanks again.

I think its pretty crappy of you to play a game for 9 months, buy expansion packs and then have the nerve to demand a refund.  Obviously you enjoyed the game enough to continue to drop coin on it, yet you think they owe you a full refund 9 months after release?  That's pretty ridiculous and I 100% think you are lying about getting a full refund from Microsoft.
     @Midguy post 10

     1)  I truly don't care what you think.
     2)  I believe after spending 49 (kenrufo) dollars on two games, be promised by the community leaders it would be fixxed, I think a refund is in order for one of the two games.
     3)  Again, I don't care what you think, and if im lying or not, I have nothing to prove to anyone here, especically to an ignorant fool who wants to judge, and im sure as heck not going to to publish my billing statement from Microsoft to prove anything to you let alone a refund.

     The only thing you got right was the fact that I did enjoy the game to some extent.  
     Go troll somewhere else.

     What's ridiculous is "you" bought a sub-par product, and got shaffted twice by corepret america, and you think it's all ok.  Go ahead dude keep wasting your money on junk, because the more junk you buy the more junk you'll get.  

What an infuriating thing Wizard's has done. Everybody is frustrated. Yeah, 3 strikes and you're out. Hope they're listening.

     @Midguy post 10

     1)  I truly don't care what you think.
     2)  I believe after spending 49 (kenrufo) dollars on two games, be promised by the community leaders it would be fixxed, I think a refund is in order for one of the two games.
     3)  Again, I don't care what you think, and if im lying or not, I have nothing to prove to anyone here, especically to an ignorant fool who wants to judge, and im sure as heck not going to to publish my billing statement from Microsoft to prove anything to you let alone a refund.

     The only thing you got right was the fact that I did enjoy the game to some extent.  
     Go troll somewhere else.

     What's ridiculous is "you" bought a sub-par product, and got shaffted twice by corepret america, and you think it's all ok.  Go ahead dude keep wasting your money on junk, because the more junk you buy the more junk you'll get.  




I have to agree with Midguy to some extent.  I'm shocked that Microsoft gave you the refund (and a bit curious, I assume they removed the game/expansions from your games list as well, revoking access to the game?  Did you keep the Gamer score earned?) in the first place, however if you make a big enough fuss, it's always easier for a corporation that size to just buy your silence.

If you were to have downloaded the game, played it for a say a month, giving enough time to see the obvious flaws, then ask for a refund, I could see the merit behind it.  But as Midguy stated, asking 9 months down the road is a bit much in my opinion.  I'm a chef, so I'll relate it to my industry.  If I were to serve somebody their meal, they take a few bites and realize it's not what they expected, or not cooked properly etc. Then by all means I expect, even want, them to send it back so that I have a chance to fix my mistake.  However if they were to eat the entire meal, then tell me that they don't want to pay for it because it wasn't good, then they're most definitely paying for the meal they just ate. 


corepret america



Yikes. There is no hope for the future of this country.
     @Midguy post 10

     1)  I truly don't care what you think.
     2)  I believe after spending 49 (kenrufo) dollars on two games, be promised by the community leaders it would be fixxed, I think a refund is in order for one of the two games.
     3)  Again, I don't care what you think, and if im lying or not, I have nothing to prove to anyone here, especically to an ignorant fool who wants to judge, and im sure as heck not going to to publish my billing statement from Microsoft to prove anything to you let alone a refund.

     The only thing you got right was the fact that I did enjoy the game to some extent.  
     Go troll somewhere else.

     What's ridiculous is "you" bought a sub-par product, and got shaffted twice by corepret america, and you think it's all ok.  Go ahead dude keep wasting your money on junk, because the more junk you buy the more junk you'll get.  



1) then don't post in an open forum
2) You're wrong.
3) Casting doubt on your own honesty. Great move.

Everything you said below 3) is ridiculous. Anything else I add will probably get deleted so I won't bother.

corepret america



Yikes. There is no hope for the future of this country.


And there's that...
I fully support this guy.  I am actually in the opposite thinking of some of you guys.  Remember, this isn't the service industry, and they aren't selling us a tangible product, so this next bit doesn't go for most products but I think I'm right in regards to games.   If you buy a game and demand a refund after 1 month, with the exceptions of it offends you or it's just something you never will play again, then you are the fool.  Software is, in most cases, ESPECIALLY when it comes to gaming software, usually updated and patched.  As that is the industry standard, there should have been no less expectation with this software. 

I think that he's absolutely within his rights to demand a refund after 9 months of non-communication and even less support.  They continued to take our money with new deck releases, but failed to provide any support.  And you guys defend them for this....   laughable.

You're a lose cannon.

 

 

"I played 70 card decks before it was cool to play 70 card decks." -Random M:tG hipster

I think wizard's are the one's to blame...not stainless. After all, wizard's owns the rights to MTG. Stainless is just a contracted developer. If wizards wanted to fix bugs, all they have to do is re-hire stainless to fix them, its that simple. As an independant entity, stainless isnt obligated to fix anything on dotp unless wotc pays them to do so. Obviously Wotc had to approve the game functionality at some point. For all we know stainless warned them that it was buggy as hell and needed more time and testing, but Wotc insisted on releasing it anyway. This happens all the time with games based on movies, warner brothers demands that the developer have the game completed for simultanious release with the movie. regardless of bugs/issues. since warner's owns the I.P. its their call, not the developer's. you cant blame the dev team, that just did what they were hired to do. Most dev's hate releasing a crappy game, but often have no choice.

This is the impression I got from my previous communication with Stainless. They can't do anything without Wizards giving them the go ahead. Even if they prepare fixes and patches, unless Wizards say they can publish them, their hands are tied. And Wizards should also be making sure the game is up to scratch before it's released, and that Stainless are given enough support in terms of rules knowledge.
I am a Rules advisor. Feel free to send me any questions as a private message! Check if you have found a bug in Duels 2013 Report a bug Report a technical issue I have written several guides to help new DoTP players here, move to the first post to start reading. They are also in Wordpress format here. The principles involved should still be useful for Duels 2013!
Useful links:
Find other DoTP players - a database of friendly players, find a match or post your name here to be added to the list! I'll add a D13 section if anyone would like. Ask a rules question - ask anything about DoTP, Magic in general, or to check out if you've found a bug by asking if the rules are being followed. Community thread for general chatter in the DoTP part of the forum! Guide to Yugioh on Xbox live: A beginner's guide focusing on the similarities and differences to Magic.

     @ sixty4half Thank you very much!!
     @  Venrathe and robvalue  You are probably 100% right, but the only reason I still blame Stainless to some extent, and some will disagree is because WOTC exists on multiple platforms with multiple installments .  For example, I've played MTG:O and haven't had nearly if any problems that I've had with duels.  This one example didn't include Stainless.  Leaping Lizard was the developer first, then Wizards took over.  Guess my question now is why can't WOTC develop their own game?

     @ MrWiggles49 If you truly think the decline of western civilization and America is solely based on the loose way I spelled corepret instead of corporate, look at the world again.  Failing economy, high interests rates, and the housing problem are a little bit more telling.  FOOL 



I think its pretty crappy of you to play a game for 9 months, buy expansion packs and then have the nerve to demand a refund.  Obviously you enjoyed the game enough to continue to drop coin on it, yet you think they owe you a full refund 9 months after release?  That's pretty ridiculous and I 100% think you are lying about getting a full refund from Microsoft.

     @ Midguy  To even further show your ignorance, here is a posting from this website about a guy or girl that was offered a refund from Microsoft, which even took place after my posting.  See what happens when you think, your wrong!


community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...



Reply number 8
@booper

That guy had a technical issue. This is getting out of hand. Midguy probably shouldn't have suggested you were lying. He should have just expressed his doubt given how rare a full refund is. I believe all marketplace sales have a ToS that states non-refundable so it is rare that MS makes an exception but they do.

And you should let it go now and probably shouldn't have asked for a refund 9 months later, but if you did and got it, good for you.


With that out of the way, what is your position on the state of DotP again? You won't play it anymore or you're waiting for 2013?       
Thank you Morgan_X, a sound voice of reason.  Issue is dropped.  As for the current game, Mircosoft didn't delete my lisceing for the game, but I choose not to play solely based on the fact it would make me a hypocrite, and it's not the right thing to do.  As for the new one coming, im just going to wait.  But between you and I, I will not play if no manual mana tapping, I need an "End" phase, and I truly want to have control of how much many is in the deck.  A mono colored with 24 mana is silly, and it's just over kill.  So upon release, I'll probably hit the fourms again, and see what everybody thinks, if the community is just as unhappy, I won't get.
Thank you Morgan_X, a sound voice of reason.  Issue is dropped.  As for the current game, Mircosoft didn't delete my lisceing for the game, but I choose not to play solely based on the fact it would make me a hypocrite, and it's not the right thing to do.  As for the new one coming, im just going to wait.  But between you and I, I will not play if no manual mana tapping, I need an "End" phase, and I truly want to have control of how much many is in the deck.  A mono colored with 24 mana is silly, and it's just over kill.  So upon release, I'll probably hit the fourms again, and see what everybody thinks, if the community is just as unhappy, I won't get.



Sounds like a great plan actually.  I think that I and many others will take a similar course of action regarding 2013.  Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me.  Feel me thrice?  Let's wait for 2013 to find out.
I understand the guy's (Booper's) frustration and I understand also that his response was over the top, but I think we're all missing the really important thing in this thread:

A Wizard's online staff member actually replied to it because of a ToS violation. What the Hell? They read these forums only when someone calls them a name or something? That's weird. How about reading the bug fix list and responding to that in any kind of meaningful way? Maybe if I use profane and vulgar language to describe the bugs you'll read? Seriously.
I understand the guy's (Booper's) frustration and I understand also that his response was over the top, but I think we're all missing the really important thing in this thread:

A Wizard's online staff member actually replied to it because of a ToS violation. What the Hell? They read these forums only when someone calls them a name or something? That's weird. How about reading the bug fix list and responding to that in any kind of meaningful way? Maybe if I use profane and vulgar language to describe the bugs you'll read? Seriously.



Sorta.  The mods respond to that "report post" button in the corner.  So they're specifically called upon, and usually in response to people calling each other names.
I'm not sure the board mods are the same people who would have any idea about bugs in the game.  If there was a "report bug" button that invoked the presence of game designers then we'd all be happy 
Sending messages to all involved isn't a bad move, to increase the pressure on WOTC, but because it's Wizard's game, only WOTC can do something about it. Only Wizard can FORCE Stainless to fix bugs, unless they were crazy enough not to specify that QA be met in contract. But it's clear that WOTC just doesn't care. The only way to make them care is to stop supporting broken products. If 2013 makes only 1/10th the initial sales of 2012, then WOTC might start caring. I know that I personally will recommend against buying any digital products from WOTC until such time that they release quality digital products.
Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
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