D408: Making Race Count Pt3: Rejoice, charisma based Tieflings!

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Obligatory Link.

(As an aside, I dislike the new wizards.com site layout)

I like the Dragonfear power.

2cp for your thoughts?
A Beginners Primer to CharOp. Archmage's Ascension - The Wizard's Handbook. Let the Hammer Fall: Dwarf Warpriest/Tactical Warpriest/Indomitable Champion, a Defending Leader. Requiem for Dissent: Cleric/Fighter/Paragon of Victory Melee Leader Ko te manu e kai i te miro, nona te ngahere. Ko te manu e kai i te matauranga e, nano te ao katoa. It's the proliferation of people who think the rules are more important than what the rules are meant to accomplish. - Dedekine
Using the Tiefling U10 as a second round follow-up to Imperious Majesty essentially makes a Tiefling Paladin unhittable for two rounds of combat.

Also, the 16U Half-Orc utility is stupid good, if only for the +2 to attack. And it's not a stance, so it stacks perfectly with many of the classes that Half-Orc works best for.
Using the Tiefling U10 as a second round follow-up to Imperious Majesty essentially makes a Tiefling Paladin unhittable for two rounds of combat.

Also, the 16U Half-Orc utility is stupid good, if only for the +2 to attack. And it's not a stance, so it stacks perfectly with many of the classes that Half-Orc works best for.



Hellfire Shroud is verbatim Warlock's Wrath.  So a Tiefling Warlock can take the U10 plus Warlock's Wrath to have complete freedom of motion for four of it's turns, and be unhittable for two off-turns inbetween (Cha mod + concealment bonus to all defenses), every encounter.  Of course, that would consume two if it's precious minors...
Printing a utility that prevents you from provoking on a charge is almost as bad as printing a utility that gives you a bonus for provoking on a charge.

I am glad to see Dragonfear support though, and I particularly like what ammounts to a Minor Action Dazed Save Ends.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Printing a utility that prevents you from provoking on a charge is almost as bad as printing a utility that gives you a bonus for provoking on a charge.



It's purple. Badge of the Berserker shouldn't exist, and as a consequence it doesn't for many campaigns. Then there are the campaigns which are low magic (for example, Dark Sun. You know, one of the four settings supported by WotC). And then some characters want the option to charge once or twice and encounter, and have many better neck slot items to take over the Badge. 

Co-author on AoA 2-3 and 4-1.

Printing a utility that prevents you from provoking on a charge is almost as bad as printing a utility that gives you a bonus for provoking on a charge.


Yes and no. The latter actually helps to fuel the fire of Half-Orc Retribution Avengers (shut up they exist ;-; ) should the guys in the path find the Half-Orc running towards their leader to be a prime target, since it doesn't prevent OAs, just discourage them... but how many of them will take that chance if the DM has them be aware that that's exactly what it does?

I am glad to see Dragonfear support though, and I particularly like what ammounts to a Minor Action Dazed Save Ends.

Those two Dragonfear utilities are glorious little morsels, and I love them just as much.

yes, please, more dragonfear support.
While Dragonfear is cool, I have to ask.

Do we really need more Dragonborn and Tiefling support?  Really?
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
I agree with mand.  While I like this article and think dragonfear needed some support, it would have been better to give some of the many undersupported races more options.
I agree with mand.  While I like this article and think dragonfear needed some support, it would have been better to give some of the many undersupported races more options.



You can add me to that list. There are so many severely undersupported races and classes that it's a bit aggravating to see their time going to something that is already quite well supported.
I agree with mand.  While I like this article and think dragonfear needed some support, it would have been better to give some of the many undersupported races more options.



I consider all new content to be a play-test for D&D next. I find it unlikely we will see support for races that aren't going to be core. IMHO
Do we really need more Dragonborn and Tiefling support?  Really?

+1

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
While Dragonfear is cool, I have to ask.

Do we really need more Dragonborn and Tiefling support?  Really?


Oh, I agree, but after just having spent $20 on the horrible HotEC, I'm at least happy to see that my DDI Sub (which I really just pay for compendium use) includes the highest ratio of Blue+::Black- support we've seen from WotC writers in quite a while.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
While Dragonfear is cool, I have to ask.

Do we really need more Dragonborn and Tiefling support?  Really?


Oh, I agree, but after just having spent $20 on the horrible HotEC, I'm at least happy to see that my DDI Sub (which I really just pay for compendium use) includes the highest ratio of Blue+::Black- support we've seen from WotC writers in quite a while.



It has its gems, even if the book overall is sub-par.
While Dragonfear is cool, I have to ask.

Do we really need more Dragonborn and Tiefling support?  Really?


Oh, I agree, but after just having spent $20 on the horrible HotEC, I'm at least happy to see that my DDI Sub (which I really just pay for compendium use) includes the highest ratio of Blue+::Black- support we've seen from WotC writers in quite a while.



It has its gems, even if the book overall is sub-par.

That's cause PHB1 is overpowered.

It set the bar rather high.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

While Dragonfear is cool, I have to ask.

Do we really need more Dragonborn and Tiefling support?  Really?


Oh, I agree, but after just having spent $20 on the horrible HotEC, I'm at least happy to see that my DDI Sub (which I really just pay for compendium use) includes the highest ratio of Blue+::Black- support we've seen from WotC writers in quite a while.



It has its gems, even if the book overall is sub-par.

That's cause PHB1 is overpowered.

It set the bar rather high.


Or because the designers got lazy with their design. Ever since Essentials refocused on the Basic Attack it changed the power curve for At-Wills and Encounters (with daily powers basically becoming an after thought). They got lazy and 4e suffered for it.
While Dragonfear is cool, I have to ask.

Do we really need more Dragonborn and Tiefling support?  Really?


Oh, I agree, but after just having spent $20 on the horrible HotEC, I'm at least happy to see that my DDI Sub (which I really just pay for compendium use) includes the highest ratio of Blue+::Black- support we've seen from WotC writers in quite a while.



It has its gems, even if the book overall is sub-par.

That's cause PHB1 is overpowered.

It set the bar rather high.


Or because the designers got lazy with their design. Ever since Essentials refocused on the Basic Attack it changed the power curve for At-Wills and Encounters (with daily powers basically becoming an after thought). They got lazy and 4e suffered for it.



Sorry, but no. The amount of autopicks and dominant choices in the PHB is much, much higher than it is in any other book, with the possible exception of the PHB2. I know that playing a blame game is cute and pop these days, but mello is right in that the PHB1 was the most unbalanced 4e product ever printed.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
While Dragonfear is cool, I have to ask.

Do we really need more Dragonborn and Tiefling support?  Really?


Oh, I agree, but after just having spent $20 on the horrible HotEC, I'm at least happy to see that my DDI Sub (which I really just pay for compendium use) includes the highest ratio of Blue+::Black- support we've seen from WotC writers in quite a while.



It has its gems, even if the book overall is sub-par.

That's cause PHB1 is overpowered.

It set the bar rather high.


Or because the designers got lazy with their design. Ever since Essentials refocused on the Basic Attack it changed the power curve for At-Wills and Encounters (with daily powers basically becoming an after thought). They got lazy and 4e suffered for it.



Sorry, but no. The amount of autopicks and dominant choices in the PHB is much, much higher than it is in any other book, with the possible exception of the PHB2. I know that playing a blame game is cute and pop these days, but mello is right in that the PHB1 was the most unbalanced 4e product ever printed.



Agreed and really that makes sense since that was the time where they were guessing more about balance.

 If anything if you look at what is being made now and how it interacts with the game the game is doing about what the designers want.  Most of the new classes are better at low OP and are harder to get to higher OP.  This means the game is closer to the middle overall.  This does mean that you are getting less of the SUPER AWESOME stuff so char op gets less to work with. 

Besides "lazy" design would be doing the same stuff from the start since they would be too lazy to inovate.  Whether you like or dislike it and whether you think they are effective or not they have done a lot of inovation recently (and they tend to work well in "standard" non-high OP groups). 
Remember, there's a difference between High Op and "Average Players can manage baseline competence" which is ultimately the goal of design. Taking the elementalist as the example, the average player is not going to be choosing a top pick race, going MKJ for Resounding Thunder or Morninglord or ResMan into Flame Spiral on an Academy Master; "Average Players" don't even take Expertise based on the hundred page arguments about feat taxes.

I would say we're further from the middle than ever, PHB also has a crapload of terrible powers, stuff that is literally non-choices. Post-Errata it was pretty balanced overall because of outliers on both ends. We've consistently needed the OP to counter the terrible. So with level 29 powers that are literally worse than level heroic, and without level 1 powers that are better than paragon, the average quality has substantially dropped.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.