02/23/2012 FtL: "Fun with Undeath"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's From the Lab article, which goes live Thursday morning on magicthegathering.com.

I rejoyce in a Kitty Deck that I have most of the pieces for.
IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/0a90721d221e50e5755af156c179fe51.jpg?v=90000)

Just felt this needed to be pointed out: While the Triskelion & Mikaeus, the Unhallowed Combo works, you need to ahve the Triskelion ping itself twice, as it's getting an additional +1/+1 from Mikaeus.


Also good article as always, NdC, particularly the Mikaeus deck. I'm trying to make an EDH deck with him at the helm myself.

Remove the first two counters to ping your opponent, then use the last on the Triskelion itself. It'll be a 1/1 with 1 damage on it, so it'll die, and come back with an extra counter. So... infinite damage.


You actually need to use the Triskelion's ability on itself twice, since Mikaeus the Unhallowed gives it +1/+1, so it'll be a 2/2 once all of its counters are removed. Still infinite though.
IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/c6f9e416e5e0e1f0a1e5c42b0c7b3e88.jpg?v=90000)
For the hasty green deck: primal forcemage
Jamison VanLoocke came up with a plan to ping-pong two Fume Spitters between the graveyard and the battlefield. In his words: "Pop one to saddle an opposing guy with a –1/–1 counter and have it come back with a +1/+1 counter. Pop the other to remove that counter, and repeat."

Depending on what he means by "repeat", I don't think this works.

If he intends to keep putting -1/-1 counters on opponents' creatures, then it doesn't. If he just means keep putting -1/-1 counters on his Undying'd Fume Spitters, fine, but without something else (like the Flayer of the Hatebound mentioned just below this quote), it's kind a fruitless endeavor.

Thanks jozh, you said what I was thinking.  Its like he's saying that putting a -1/-1 counter on a creature that has a +1/+1 counter removes said +1/+1 counter?  Is this how it works? Didn't think it did that. 
Also to chronego, triskelion only has to ping itself once.  When you remove the third counter to ping, it  is only a 1/1 creature because of the +1/+1 that mikaeus gave it. 
Despite the trend given by most modern creatures that use +1/+1 counters as a resource, Triskelion's base printed stats are 1/1, not 0/0. Mikaeus then adjusts that to 2/2.
Jamison VanLoocke came up with a plan to ping-pong two Fume Spitters between the graveyard and the battlefield. In his words: "Pop one to saddle an opposing guy with a –1/–1 counter and have it come back with a +1/+1 counter. Pop the other to remove that counter, and repeat."

Depending on what he means by "repeat", I don't think this works.

If he intends to keep putting -1/-1 counters on opponents' creatures, then it doesn't. If he just means keep putting -1/-1 counters on his Undying'd Fume Spitters, fine, but without something else (like the Flayer of the Hatebound mentioned just below this quote), it's kind a fruitless endeavor.




The whole -point- of the combo is that it's an endless source of all kinds of different triggers.  Enter the Battlefield, Sacrifice, Dies, and so on.  It doesn't have to just work with Flayer.
Thanks jozh, you said what I was thinking.  Its like he's saying that putting a -1/-1 counter on a creature that has a +1/+1 counter removes said +1/+1 counter?  Is this how it works? Didn't think it did that. 


Yes, putting a -1/-1 counter and a +1/+1 counter on the same creature will remove both counters from the creature.  This is primarily for bookkeeping reasons, if they didn't remove eachother you could have a creature with 5 +1/+1 counters and 3 -1/-1 counters on it and you'd have to remember which counter type was which.  Not to mention that's a lot of counters to stack on one lonely card.

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From Mark Rosewater's Tumblr: the0uroboros asked: How in the same set can we have a hexproof, unsacrificable(not a word) creature AND a land that makes it uncounterable. How does this lead to interactive play? I believe I’m able to play my creature and you have to deal with it is much more interactive than you counter my creature.

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Post #777

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MaRo: One of the classic R&D stories happened during a Scars of Mirrodin draft. Erik Lauer was sitting to my right (meaning that he passed to me in the first and third packs). At the end of the draft, Erik was upset because I was in his colors (black-green). He said, "Didn't you see the signals? I went into black-green in pack one." I replied, "Didn't you see my signals? I started drafting infect six drafts ago."

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MaRo: I redesigned him while the effect was on the stack.