4E Players, Please demand clarification on 4E tools

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on twitter today, and over the past weeks, wizards seem to beat around the bush on 4e tools, slowly but surely backing away from their 'promise' to support 4e tools after 5e comes out. i want 4e subscribers to please make your voice heard regarding this

here is what they said just today. they were asked: "Just wondering, do you think we will still be able to use the CB for 4e once NEXT is released?"

"We want to keep support for the CB going, but it's too early to tell exactly how that's going to work out."

twitter.com/#!/Wizards_DnD

im sorry but that doesnt fill this loyal subscriber with much confidence and it is a much weaker statement than you gave us the day you dropped the 5e bomb. what you need to say to us is that under no circumstance will you kill 4e tools when next comes out. you need to tell us not that you 'intend' to support 4e tools, but that you WILL, period.

 this kind of tweet is completely irresponsible if you are going to support it, and if you arent, then tell us now
Although I no longer subscribe, I can definitely feel your frustration frothsof. Its a frustration which drove me away from supporting Wizards in the first place. The support only slightly waned at first, but as I became more frustrated with the things I was seeing I dropped all support altogether.

I will echo your request. WotC needs to answer this question and answer it indefinitely. There can be no tip toeing around it, I think its a make and break decision for supporters of both 4E and 5E.
If they were going to cut off the tools, the last thing they would do is announce it right now. They are already likely taking a hit right now on the book sales. If they announced that DDI was getting cut off (which would be stupid to do even when 5e is released until they see how many people remain subscribed) I think a lot of people would cut their losses, cancel now, and either find a new game or use the money they saved to buy some used books.
Owner and Proprietor of the House of Trolls. God of ownership and possession.
Sigh.

I've been a pretty big supporter of DDI.  I like what's out, I recognize significant improvement when I see it, and I have pretty high hopes for the future of the service.

But this is some piss poor communication, Wiz.  Piss poor.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Ok, I'm with you on this.  The following is what I want from WotC:

4e Character Builder to be a permanent part of DDI with updates continuing through the final releases of any 4e material
Same goes for the Compendium AND the Monster Builder -- these are vital to my game.

I want the VT to remain compatible with the 4e Character Builder and Monster Builder.

This is the primary reason that I have a DDI subscription and when these tools are no longer available I won't be renewing my account. 
OP,


Why are you so suprised?  The entire point of the GSL (and why it was written the way it was) was to ensure that when Wotc changed editions, they could stop 4e cold.  Completely cold.  That means cutting off the 4e support in DDI after a certain period.  If Wotc believes that 4e people aren't switching over to 5e in "enough numbers", 4e support will vanish overnight and without warning.  You heard it here first.


-Polaris   
Partly the reason I ditched DDI a while back and started building up my book collection. Get your new books while they last, cuz buying used at more than cover price sucks large.
4e D&D is not a "Tabletop MMO." It is not Massively Multiplayer, and is usually not played Online. Come up with better descriptions of your complaints, cuz this one means jack ****.
I have been shoring up my book collection as well. I am not confident that the DDI support will continue, and my wallet will follow my preferences when the new edition is released.

The Character Builder is my friend. If it is not fully-4e-supportive, my subscription will end, regardless of my feelings toward 5e. Fortunately, there is a 4e offline builder support community out there, so my 4e tools will not disappear if WotC pulls the plug. And if worse comes to worst, I will learn how to make characters manually, just like I did for all previous editions.
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
Fortunately, there is a 4e offline builder support community out there, so my 4e tools will not disappear if WotC pulls the plug.


This is an important point. If WotC kills the online 4e CB, it won't make any real difference to me because I have alternatives. What it will do is guarantee that they get no more of my money, because (once there are no more 4e books to buy) they do not have any alternative ways of getting my money other than through me choosing to maintain my DDi subscription.

"My flying carpet is full of elves."

I would express some great displeasure at this idea. I've paid money for a service I now enjoy, if that service disappears so too will my money.

Hopefully someone at WoTC takes a long, hard look at the Netflix disaster and understands that the contemporary market is one over which they have far less control than they used to. It would be easy enough to switch to another product or service that is willing to fill the gap should they decide things need to change.

On an alternative note, should they feel like an OCB and the constant maintenance it requires is no longer worth their time and effort, I would appreciate a downloadable builder be made available.

Realistically thinking however, I am sure they don't really care what I want or think and will continue to screw me over as much as possible, while still offering just enough to keep my money coming in.

tl;dr I'm disillusioned...
I have to agree with the other's sentiments.  I would probably drop my sub, it wouldn't be worth the $70/year for only the VT.  I suppose I'm not surprised their statements have gotten more lukewarm over time.......
This would be the reason I use the offline tools that I do.  And why I have them fully backed up.  I will play whatever edition I want, and I'm not about to let them hold me ransom, as it were, to some new design paradigm that I'm not even sure I'll like.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- ) Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right.
fun quotes
58419928 wrote:
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
69216168 wrote:
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?[/quote]
as a Mac user I wish I had more (any) 3rd party options.  I used to use the old offline CB under Bootcamp, but I had to get rid of the partition so I lost it.
OP,


Why are you so suprised?  The entire point of the GSL (and why it was written the way it was) was to ensure that when Wotc changed editions, they could stop 4e cold.  Completely cold.  That means cutting off the 4e support in DDI after a certain period.  If Wotc believes that 4e people aren't switching over to 5e in "enough numbers", 4e support will vanish overnight and without warning.
-Polaris   


     There is no certainty here.  If there are enough 4e players who are putting out good money and make it clear they won't switch to 5e in any case, support for 4e may continue for a long time, or it may end as soon as some top executive has a brainstorm.  In essence, there is nothing WOTC can say that we should consider reliable.  There are too many ifs involved.
     However support for 4e is not likely to vanish without warning.  It may be short warning, but we should expect an announcement, along with a pitch about how easy it is to switch over to 5e.
Fortunately, there is a 4e offline builder support community out there, so my 4e tools will not disappear if WotC pulls the plug.


This is an important point. If WotC kills the online 4e CB, it won't make any real difference to me because I have alternatives. What it will do is guarantee that they get no more of my money, because (once there are no more 4e books to buy) they do not have any alternative ways of getting my money other than through me choosing to maintain my DDi subscription.



Ditto. I mean, just looking at the transition from 3e to 4e, and ignoring the people who went to Pathfinder....how many people just pirate the 3e books they want? If Wizards kills DDI, or removes all the 4e from it....what makes them think that people won't just pirate the material anyways if they don't want to switch to 5e?

edit: or just use the offline builder. Which, by the by, was better than the current builder. 

Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid

Copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade.

"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,

"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all." -Kipling

 

Miss d20 Modern? Take a look at Dias Ex Machina Game's UltraModern 4e!

 

57019168 wrote:
I am a hero, not a chump.
Fortunately, there is a 4e offline builder support community out there, so my 4e tools will not disappear if WotC pulls the plug.


This is an important point. If WotC kills the online 4e CB, it won't make any real difference to me because I have alternatives. What it will do is guarantee that they get no more of my money, because (once there are no more 4e books to buy) they do not have any alternative ways of getting my money other than through me choosing to maintain my DDi subscription.



Ditto. I mean, just looking at the transition from 3e to 4e, and ignoring the people who went to Pathfinder....how many people just pirate the 3e books they want? If Wizards kills DDI, or removes all the 4e from it....what makes them think that people won't just pirate the material anyways if they don't want to switch to 5e?

edit: or just use the offline builder. Which, by the by, was better than the current builder. 



You forgot this:

"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- ) Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right.
fun quotes
58419928 wrote:
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
69216168 wrote:
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?[/quote]
I have my access to any offline tools as well, which has helped my group tremendously.  I made sure to keep all that backed up.  I'm currently running the campaign for my group, so I have a DDI subscription.  The 4E tools are very helpful, such as the compendium and so on.  Our group already discussed the next version and decided that we want to stick to 4E.  That's not a slam against the next version.  Even if the next version is great, we have such an investment in 4E and we love playing it that we decided we want to stick with it.  So WOTC would be missing out on my money as well.  I'd have no reason to subscribe. 
Ditto to all that.  I am a subscriber to DDI because of the 4E online character builder, monster vault and compendium.  If those go, I will have no reason to continue my sub.


Our party has become addicted to those tools... it just makes everything so much easier and quicker.  Need a new character quickly... done in ten minutes (not two hours)... need some rewards for the party?  Go to the compendium and get exactly what you want and print it out.  Need to level a monster up or down quickly?  Done.  


One quick thought... I would make a guess that many of the DDI subscriptions represent not just one D&D fan/player/DM but probably whole groups of people.  I know that WOTC would prefer that everyone would have their own sub but in our group of about 7 people, I am the only one who subscribes and we all gather to make characters together on the builder.  Not ideal for WOTC to sell one sub instead of 7... but on the flip side, all of these 7 have also purchased D&D books, minis, a couple have purchased D&D board games for home... they have spent money.  And if the 4E tools disappear and I as the DM drop DDI and D&D altogether, well... our whole group will drop off the WOTC radar.
WotC needs to get out in front of this NOW before they lose the paying customers they still have. I know a LOT of 4e players who are getting ready to jump ship to a different system because they feel the edition is dying. This kind of waffling will probably push them over the edge. WotC is at least a year away from releasing 5e and I bet losing a lot of customers would hurt them where it counts.

Come on WotC, give us a firm commitment or you will lose people very quickly. You already know how hard it can be to get them back (ie - creating 5e)
WotC needs to get out in front of this NOW before they lose the paying customers they still have. I know a LOT of 4e players who are getting ready to jump ship to a different system because they feel the edition is dying. This kind of waffling will probably push them over the edge. WotC is at least a year away from releasing 5e and I bet losing a lot of customers would hurt them where it counts.

Come on WotC, give us a firm commitment or you will lose people very quickly. You already know how hard it can be to get them back (ie - creating 5e)



They (Wotc) can't.  They can't because the decision will ultimately be up to mgt and that decision will depend on how well 5e does.  If 5e falters even a little (by Hasbro standards mind you not real TRPG standards), then Wotc will yank all 4e support in an effort to inflate 5e as a last ditch effort by trying to force 4e people to convert.  You are hearing it here first.  That's why Wotc is waffling.  They will not commit to something that they (reasonably) don't think they can follow through on.


-Polaris
WotC needs to get out in front of this NOW before they lose the paying customers they still have. I know a LOT of 4e players who are getting ready to jump ship to a different system because they feel the edition is dying. This kind of waffling will probably push them over the edge. WotC is at least a year away from releasing 5e and I bet losing a lot of customers would hurt them where it counts.

Come on WotC, give us a firm commitment or you will lose people very quickly. You already know how hard it can be to get them back (ie - creating 5e)



They (Wotc) can't.  They can't because the decision will ultimately be up to mgt and that decision will depend on how well 5e does.  If 5e falters even a little (by Hasbro standards mind you not real TRPG standards), then Wotc will yank all 4e support in an effort to inflate 5e as a last ditch effort by trying to force 4e people to convert.  You are hearing it here first.  That's why Wotc is waffling.  They will not commit to something that they (reasonably) don't think they can follow through on.


-Polaris



The honest problem with this thinking (and it's been stated right here in this thread) is that none of us have to switch over, not even if they pull all their tools.  In fact, that would give us more reason not to switch.  So if some schmuck at the top thinks like in "ye olde days" when we didn't have internet, community, and a dedicated fan base for any one of the editions, 4th included, and they can just pull the rug and expect someone to fall in line?  Well, that person needs to be fired, and they need to get someone in there who knows the way things go now that we have this here internet. 

Because we will find a way, no matter what their decision is.  That's the beauty of fandom and the internet.  We may get screwed by them, but it doesn't really matter; there are plenty of independet tools, and furthermore, everyone I know who has the legacy CB has it backed up. And that's not counting more . . . unsavory avenues. 

It's better to make money off us than drive us further away.  If they think pulling the plug will get us to "convert", they are sorely mistaken.  Good quality and enjoyable gaming mechanics, and a solid, non-broken gaming system will get us to play their new iteration.  Nothing else.

Hopefully they read this.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- ) Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right.
fun quotes
58419928 wrote:
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
69216168 wrote:
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?[/quote]
Meh, it's too soon for them to know exactly what they intend to do with DDI 4th support. I don't intend to switch over to D&D Next. I've been a DDI supporter from its beginning but I don't plan on keeping my subscription once D&D Next comes out. Everything I have is in the books and in the articles/magazines. I create all my character sheets by hand and use post-it notes for monster modifications.

Besides- relax. D&D Next is all about fluffy, tree hugging, let's all get along edition lovers (Mearlsy Mearls- there will always be edition wars no matter how fat and awesome DDnext is). I don't see them killing off 4E support for DDI. I just think they want your DDI money- 4E or 5E- it doesn't matter; we just want your cold hard cash. There will not be any online maintenance for the 4E once DD Next is released- no more 4E will be coming out so what is there to maintenance!
Meh, it's too soon for them to know exactly what they intend to do with DDI 4th support. I don't intend to switch over to D&D Next. I've been a DDI supporter from its beginning but I don't plan on keeping my subscription once D&D Next comes out. Everything I have is in the books and in the articles/magazines. I create all my character sheets by hand and use post-it notes for monster modifications.

Besides- relax. D&D Next is all about fluffy, tree hugging, let's all get along edition lovers (Mearlsy Mearls- there will always be edition wars no matter how fat and awesome DDnext is). I don't see them killing off 4E support for DDI. I just think they want your DDI money- 4E or 5E- it doesn't matter; we just want your cold hard cash. There will not be any online maintenance for the 4E once DD Next is released- no more 4E will be coming out so what is there to maintenance!



I suppose that's one positive; they'd never miss an update deadline again!
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- ) Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right.
fun quotes
58419928 wrote:
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
69216168 wrote:
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?[/quote]
Meh, it's too soon for them to know exactly what they intend to do with DDI 4th support. I don't intend to switch over to D&D Next. I've been a DDI supporter from its beginning but I don't plan on keeping my subscription once D&D Next comes out. Everything I have is in the books and in the articles/magazines. I create all my character sheets by hand and use post-it notes for monster modifications.

Besides- relax. D&D Next is all about fluffy, tree hugging, let's all get along edition lovers (Mearlsy Mearls- there will always be edition wars no matter how fat and awesome DDnext is). I don't see them killing off 4E support for DDI. I just think they want your DDI money- 4E or 5E- it doesn't matter; we just want your cold hard cash. There will not be any online maintenance for the 4E once DD Next is released- no more 4E will be coming out so what is there to maintenance!



I suppose that's one positive; they'd never miss an update deadline again!



Double LOL!


But seriously WotC, at the very least finish 4E DDi BEFORE 5E/D&D Next comes out.  After all the kobold droppings that hit the fan concerning DDi and 4E, just PLEASE.  We still need:


1) an encounter builder

2) a way to create companion characters


3) a way to modify character/monster/treasure/sheets


4) full tile/token support for the VT.  Not even having all the tokens from the "Red Box" is just ridiculous...


5) full house rule implementation across the board


6) a way to print maps an such we make from the tiles


7) full epic support including a DMG 3 by among others Chris Perkins


8) encounters style character and monster cards


PLEASE                         

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/8.jpg)

LOL they def aren't producing that for a 'dieing' edition.


Also, while I do feel for those who will be CB-less when WoTC cuts the obline 4e CB, I can't help but chuckle at all those who defended the thing when the transition happened.


And to those who didn't think they'd pull something like this, We told you so!  
Cry

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/8.jpg)

Sigh.

I've been a pretty big supporter of DDI.  I like what's out, I recognize significant improvement when I see it, and I have pretty high hopes for the future of the service.

But this is some piss poor communication, Wiz.  Piss poor.



I want to second this opinion. I remember Steve Winters (before they fired him) writing that in the last year they had learned a lot from their mistakes and had embarked on a more open and honest communication with customers. He said the result was a greatly improved atmosphere on the forums and a better product because people were more willing to give constructive feedback.

I fear that WotC is reverting to their old bad habits of secrecy, misdirection, and obfuscation.

Don't beat around the bush WotC, just be honest and tell us what you are planning. Let us be a part of the conversation so we can give you quality feedback.
Sigh.

I've been a pretty big supporter of DDI.  I like what's out, I recognize significant improvement when I see it, and I have pretty high hopes for the future of the service.

But this is some piss poor communication, Wiz.  Piss poor.



I want to second this opinion. I remember Steve Winters (before they fired him) writing that in the last year they had learned a lot from their mistakes and had embarked on a more open and honest communication with customers. He said the result was a greatly improved atmosphere on the forums and a better product because people were more willing to give constructive feedback.

I fear that WotC is reverting to their old bad habits of secrecy, misdirection, and obfuscation.

Don't beat around the bush WotC, just be honest and tell us what you are planning. Let us be a part of the conversation so we can give you quality feedback.

Yeah, I'm getting the feeling that all the hubbub with NDA's and tightly controlled information release regarding D&D Next, they have reverted back to some old not-so-good habits with 4e.

I'd love to know what products are going to be released to wrap up 4e.  Its basically March and we still don't know what's going to be released after August? Come on. 
Imagine for a moment if WotC posted on the forums and said:

"Hey guys, we'd like to continue to support the 4e tools into the future but we're not sure best how to do that. How can we create archival quality software that will still be accessable into the future given limited resources to support 4e products? What advice do you have on setting up such a system?"

Asking the client what they want is the cornerstone of marketing and customer support. There's also a lot of very  knowledgable people on these forums who make a living in techonology and would undoubtably give some good advice on the topic.

You've got to get into the forums and talk to the people who pay for your product. Vague comments in Twitter are not a good form of communication. Don't be afraid of us, we want to help you help us.

I'd love to know what products are going to be released to wrap up 4e.  Its basically March and we still don't know what's going to be released after August? Come on. 


     The answer is pretty much nothing. 
     By August, 5e will be in start-up mode, and all attention will be on the big roll-out in 13.  There will be little attention paid to any loose ends for 4e.
    One of the early signs of 4e [which I more or less missed] was the lack of product for the 2nd half of the year.  [Which, I'm told, sold poorly, and some said deserved to.]  And while WOTC is giving us an earlier warning this time, the same scheduling seems to be in use.  5e will be roughed out until about August and then officially announced.  Thereafter there will be a host of minor changes and the actual production for August 13.  In the meantime, 4e will be left to wither.  If some product comes in without problems and looks hot, it will be offered, but they are just going after the low-hanging fruit.  They are not going to artistically finish 4e.
     And we as players don't have much interest in them making 4e produce.  Right now there is still a year to play with it and it's a reasonable buy, but with every day, that becomes more questionable and by year's end, we will be concentrating our purchases on edition-free stuff.  4e buys will be limited to those we can use right away.  Much better for us that they make sure 5e is done right than that they put out a little junk we will soon throw away.  [Now it is possible that 5e will bomb and 4e will still sell well in January, but in that case, they should not bother with 5e at all.  Having decided there is good potential in 5e, the decision to produce little or no more 4e products follows almost immediately and automatically.] 
Gee, if only there were some way to enjoy my favorite rpg without WotC's support...
Gee, if only there were some way to enjoy my favorite rpg without WotC's support...



thats not really the point though is it? the tools allow you to scan all classes entire power lists from every source instantaneously. you can import your own monsters and pcs into the vt. i could go on and on, but suffice it to say that the fact that you can make a pc by hand isnt either impressive or pertinent. im sure everyone has a different value they ascribe to the tools, but this is about whether they keep them up or not, not whether you personally like or need them
If fifth edition sells well they probably keep the 4E tools around. They still have the revised third edition web enhancements around somewhere on their site (at least they did last month when I looked). Granted the revised 3.5 online support was close to nothing compared to the DDI initiative. If fifth edition bombs then they probably delete the entire D&D website and go strictly to video games.
Gee, if only there were some way to enjoy my favorite rpg without WotC's support...



thats not really the point though is it? the tools allow you to scan all classes entire power lists from every source instantaneously. you can import your own monsters and pcs into the vt. i could go on and on, but suffice it to say that the fact that you can make a pc by hand isnt either impressive or pertinent. im sure everyone has a different value they ascribe to the tools, but this is about whether they keep them up or not, not whether you personally like or need them

I'll go a step further.  It's also about stating one thing and then quickly back-peddling back out of it. They said they plan to support the tools, now it's well...."maybe, possibly, we're not sure, we're looking into it."

By the way "we're looking into it and we're excited about the future plans" is the new WotC stock answer. 
Gee, if only there were some way to enjoy my favorite rpg without WotC's support...



thats not really the point though is it? the tools allow you to scan all classes entire power lists from every source instantaneously. you can import your own monsters and pcs into the vt. i could go on and on, but suffice it to say that the fact that you can make a pc by hand isnt either impressive or pertinent. im sure everyone has a different value they ascribe to the tools, but this is about whether they keep them up or not, not whether you personally like or need them

I'll go a step further.  It's also about stating one thing and then quickly back-peddling back out of it. They said they plan to support the tools, now it's well...."maybe, possibly, we're not sure, we're looking into it."

By the way "we're looking into it and we're excited about the future plans" is the new WotC stock answer. 



. . . "soon" what? ;)
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- ) Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right.
fun quotes
58419928 wrote:
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
69216168 wrote:
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?[/quote]
I would be annoyed if they shut down access to the old 4e tools because they were very effective and important to running good 4e games.

I'll be mad as hell if the old back-log of 4e Dragon/ Dungeon Magazine articles that are now online only aren't accessible.  There was some seriously good content tucked away in all that and it's one of the few things I'd still re-subscribe over. 
Do WotC people not ever read forums and answer questions?  I mean, they must read them, how can they not?  But I guess they don't ever bother to answer?
Do WotC people not ever read forums and answer questions?  I mean, they must read them, how can they not?  But I guess they don't ever bother to answer?



They sometimes do but the answer is usually: "We can't say for sure at this point but we'll look into it. Meanwhile, we are excited about our future plans that are not pertinent to your question but that we thought we could mention here!"
I haven't been keeping up but has WotC have any statments regarding the negatives as well as the postives about 5th.

With the advent of DDI I changed my customer role from buying several of the books and using single parts of it to buying a subscription and accessing all material in a convenient way. I made this decision knowing that I'd have to trust WotC to fullfill their part of the bargain as long as I want, ie, as long as my 4e campaign is running.


As my campaigns tend to run for a long time, it will be probably in full swing at the time D&DN is released. I won't cut this healthy campaign short because of the new edition. So what will happen if DDI 4e is removed before our campaign ends?


We will continue to play our game, of course, using some other means to support it. But I won't be able to further trust WotC to fullfill their part of the bargain and, as I prefer not to deal with companies I don't trust, this will be the end of me being a WotC customer.


Maybe I'm part of a minority with my slow moving games, maybe I'm not part of their D&D customer demographic anymore, maybe they don't actually care: it doesn't matter. I'll be spending my money and playing a game that I want to play and feel good spending my money for. 

Huldvoll

 

---Baron von Bomberg

 

Former DDI subscriber

Gee, if only there were some way to enjoy my favorite rpg without WotC's support...



thats not really the point though is it? the tools allow you to scan all classes entire power lists from every source instantaneously. you can import your own monsters and pcs into the vt. i could go on and on, but suffice it to say that the fact that you can make a pc by hand isnt either impressive or pertinent. im sure everyone has a different value they ascribe to the tools, but this is about whether they keep them up or not, not whether you personally like or need them



This.

I am looking for some sort of timescale for when these tools are going to be scaled back or cancelled (if they are) or a guarantee they are being continued. The new edition looks good but the 4E tools are enormous time savers for me and my time is precious so if they are suddenly going to be pulled I would like to know, particularly given that I'm signed up for another year (as of a few days before the D&D Next announcement / leak) and therefore paying money for them.

The VT, which had such promise, seems to have been put on the back burner after a year of pretty slow development so are we going to see the same thing happen with other tools?