i got heroes of the elemental chaos

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and its good!
and its good!

what are some highlights?
New material is up in the Compendium, now.

I'm actually liking the Elementalist.  Really sad that all those juicy at-wills are "Sorcerer Attack" and not "Sorcerer Attack 1"

Is it really so hard to give the straight-up Sorcerer decent striker attack powers?


The presence of only two HotEC-sourced class builds in Compendium leaves me with a resounding 'meh' when I consider buying the book.

Cmon guys, Feywild had four, and three of them were actually really good!
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
and its good!

what are some highlights?



stuff i didnt really expect to be great. like the sorcerer build looks fun, but i also like the hexblade build a lot. the epic destinies are also interesting
Is the monk a new subclass or a new PHB 3 build?
Is the monk a new subclass or a new PHB 3 build?


Two new PHB3 monk builds (not subclasses): a Dex/Str water-themed controllerish one and a Dex/Cha fire-themed strikery one.

There are also new builds (not subclasses) for the PHB1 warlock, the PHB2 wildshaping druid and the sentinel druid. Plus the new elemental hexblade, elementalist sorcerer subclass and sha'ir wizard subclass.

"My flying carpet is full of elves."

Does anyone know is there will be a tab added on the Character Creation Set up strictly for the new Encounters season like there was for last season?
Is the monk a new subclass or a new PHB 3 build?


Two new PHB3 monk builds (not subclasses): a Dex/Str water-themed controllerish one and a Dex/Cha fire-themed strikery one.

There are also new builds (not subclasses) for the PHB1 warlock, the PHB2 wildshaping druid and the sentinel druid. Plus the new elemental hexblade, elementalist sorcerer subclass and sha'ir wizard subclass.

Wow, didn't know it had all that stuff in it!
if you want to run a campaign in the elemental chaos, this would be extremely cool
I like most of the themes. The Demon one is terrible, but the others seem fun, and at least reasonably useful. I'm looking at Ironwrought for one of my characters. Thought about elemental initiate, but he's a monk|rogue, and the unarmed attack thing just doesn't do him any good. That, and he's already got plenty of "respond to being attacked by making an off turn attack" stuff.

The elemental bender themes all seem to do a good job of making a character feel like an elemental bender, so that's cool.

I really like the new sorcerer. The new warlock build is...there. I dislike it for the same reason I would never play a chaos sorcerer. I don't do randomly determined values for what my character does. Other than that it seems ok. Elemental Hexblade is pretty cool. Like the weapon.


They need to put out hybrid options...right now. As in, today.

It is competely rediculous that a hybrid monk can still only be stone fist or centered breath. What the hell.
Skeptical_Clown wrote:
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
104340961 wrote:
Pine trees didn't unanimously decide one day that leaves were gauche.
http://community.wizards.com/doctorbadwolf/blog/2012/01/10/how_we_can_help_make_dndnext_awesome
reading through it more i like

themes
earthforger
ironwraught

classes
-liking the sentinel build
-sorcerer is simple but just begs to be played
-hexblade build is good if you have party synergy w your damage type
-various other powers are good

paragon paths
-elemental anchorite is interesting for some builds
-prince of genies i really like a lot, will likely use on a warlord build when i dont multiclass fighter...maybe my hybrid ardent/warlord
-elemental savant

epic destinies
-i really like lord of chaos for some builds

feats
-as expected pretty weak, although there are the newer expertise feats in print and some of the damage feats are good at certain levels w certain builds

all in all, another solid 'players option' book; ive found about the same amount in each book to be useful, pretty good stuff


I didn't remember you liking Heroes of Shadow, was I wrong on that one?
Actually it sucks we aren't allowed to use any options in the book for the coming D&D Encounters session.
(Aye, it seems the only options we can choose from the book are: Wizard(Sha'ir) and Sorcerer(Elementalist).)
Actually it sucks we aren't allowed to use any options in the book for the coming D&D Encounters session.
(Aye, it seems the only options we can choose from the book are: Wizard(Sha'ir) and Sorcerer(Elementalist).)



wait...wtf?
don't interrupt!  he is having a nice conversation with himself! 

INSIDE SCOOP, GAMERS: In the new version of D&D, it will no longer be "Edition Wars." It will be "Edition Lair Assault." - dungeonbastard

I didn't remember you liking Heroes of Shadow, was I wrong on that one?



ive played a binder...more than once
To be fair heroes of shadow was probably the weakest 4E players book published so far.  There are a handful of salvagable things in it, but overall nothing that good by itself.
i dont know, to me they all felt about the same as far as what i liked. heroes of shadow, i like the hybrid executioner, blackguard is fun to play, and it had the best wizard content of the players option books by a million miles. the witch and especially the sha'ir are god awful in my opinion
Is the monk a new subclass or a new PHB 3 build?


Two new PHB3 monk builds (not subclasses): a Dex/Str water-themed controllerish one and a Dex/Cha fire-themed strikery one.

There are also new builds (not subclasses) for the PHB1 warlock, the PHB2 wildshaping druid and the sentinel druid. Plus the new elemental hexblade, elementalist sorcerer subclass and sha'ir wizard subclass.


In your opinion, Duskweaver, how much closer does this bring us to a solid, playable Last Airbender campaign?
Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven. You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool.
Knights of W.T.F.- Silver Spur Winner
4enclave, a place where 4e fans can talk 4e in peace.
In your opinion, Duskweaver, how much closer does this bring us to a solid, playable Last Airbender campaign?


I'm not familiar enough with The Last Airbender to give any real insight, to be honest.

I will say, though, that the attack powers of the Firecrafter and Watershaper themes (that seem to be intended to make characters feel like 'benders'*) don't scale properly. An attack power with no weapon or implement keyword and with only a +2/4/6 attack bonus ends up with an effective -3 to hit penalty (and a potentially significant damage penalty) at epic compared to all your other powers. Frankly, you'll never want to use these powers above mid-paragon, which is a real shame.

I did notice that the fire elementalist gets some features keyed to lightning at epic, which IIRC is a Last Airbender thing...

* - This word has a very different (and rather unfortunate) meaning in my country, which is probably one reason why The Last Airbender isn't anywhere near as popular/well-known here as in the US.

"My flying carpet is full of elves."

Depending on how you want to play it, you've got the four elements for monks (basically) along with the themes, and you've got the elementalist sorcerer, who chooses an element.

Between them, you should be able to have an Airbender campaign with little enough immersion issues.
Skeptical_Clown wrote:
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
104340961 wrote:
Pine trees didn't unanimously decide one day that leaves were gauche.
http://community.wizards.com/doctorbadwolf/blog/2012/01/10/how_we_can_help_make_dndnext_awesome
Could I overlay an elemental theme to make a Naruto style Ninja?

basically it's..

Fire- various projectiles from machinegun to grenade blasts. Make a fire-shadow image that explodes

Water- water can be used as projectiles, disappear into water, come out of puddles, make a water-shadow image that can grab things


Depending on how you want to play it, you've got the four elements for monks (basically) along with the themes, and you've got the elementalist sorcerer, who chooses an element.

Between them, you should be able to have an Airbender campaign with little enough immersion issues.


I have a strong opinion on this issue.

Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven. You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool.
Knights of W.T.F.- Silver Spur Winner
4enclave, a place where 4e fans can talk 4e in peace.
Depending on how you want to play it, you've got the four elements for monks (basically) along with the themes, and you've got the elementalist sorcerer, who chooses an element.

Between them, you should be able to have an Airbender campaign with little enough immersion issues.


I have a strong opinion on this issue.





Indeed. :D
Skeptical_Clown wrote:
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
104340961 wrote:
Pine trees didn't unanimously decide one day that leaves were gauche.
http://community.wizards.com/doctorbadwolf/blog/2012/01/10/how_we_can_help_make_dndnext_awesome
TBH, the thing I find truly gag-worthy about this book is the blatant "cosmological/setting mash-up" (complete with Greyhawk figures doing things that have effects on other settings), something that I loathed in old-E and find even more off-putting now.

If this is the sort of thing we'll be seeing from now on - and I'm pretty sure it'll be the default in 5E - then I don't care what the mechanics look like or which E it's being done in. I consider it less kool-aid and more syrup of ipecac, but either way, I'm not going to be drinking it.
Any melee thief-friendly options?  I am thinking of playing one in this season's encounters.

 
Any melee thief-friendly options?  I am thinking of playing one in this season's encounters.

 



at first level, ironwraught isnt a bad theme choice for a thief. you get to roll an attack twice, and if both hit do extra damage
That double roll does mean you have a higher chance of hitting, right? It's not just a secondary roll to determine if you get the d8?
Skeptical_Clown wrote:
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
104340961 wrote:
Pine trees didn't unanimously decide one day that leaves were gauche.
http://community.wizards.com/doctorbadwolf/blog/2012/01/10/how_we_can_help_make_dndnext_awesome
Could I overlay an elemental theme to make a Naruto style Ninja?

basically it's..

Fire- various projectiles from machinegun to grenade blasts. Make a fire-shadow image that explodes

Water- water can be used as projectiles, disappear into water, come out of puddles, make a water-shadow image that can grab things





The closest you can probably get is an assassin with either the firecrafter or watershaper. Don't know if you can do the shadow clone thing without a crazy build or something. Watershaper does have the ability to shapeshift though...
Could I overlay an elemental theme to make a Naruto style Ninja?

basically it's..

Fire- various projectiles from machinegun to grenade blasts. Make a fire-shadow image that explodes

Water- water can be used as projectiles, disappear into water, come out of puddles, make a water-shadow image that can grab things





The closest you can probably get is an assassin with either the firecrafter or watershaper. Don't know if you can do the shadow clone thing without a crazy build or something. Watershaper does have the ability to shapeshift though...




Assassins have multiple shadow clone type powers.
Skeptical_Clown wrote:
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
104340961 wrote:
Pine trees didn't unanimously decide one day that leaves were gauche.
http://community.wizards.com/doctorbadwolf/blog/2012/01/10/how_we_can_help_make_dndnext_awesome
Could I overlay an elemental theme to make a Naruto style Ninja?

basically it's..

Fire- various projectiles from machinegun to grenade blasts. Make a fire-shadow image that explodes

Water- water can be used as projectiles, disappear into water, come out of puddles, make a water-shadow image that can grab things





The closest you can probably get is an assassin with either the firecrafter or watershaper. Don't know if you can do the shadow clone thing without a crazy build or something. Watershaper does have the ability to shapeshift though...




Assassins have multiple shadow clone type powers.



huh...I should pay more attention...
I have a burning desire to play an Elementalist that I've cooked up (though "burning" probably isn't the best word since it's partially water-based), but I'm going to be DMing Encounters, so....
"Censorship is telling a man he can’t have a steak just because a baby can’t chew it.” ~Mark Twain
Is the monk a new subclass or a new PHB 3 build?


Two new PHB3 monk builds (not subclasses): a Dex/Str water-themed controllerish one and a Dex/Cha fire-themed strikery one.

There are also new builds (not subclasses) for the PHB1 warlock, the PHB2 wildshaping druid and the sentinel druid. Plus the new elemental hexblade, elementalist sorcerer subclass and sha'ir wizard subclass.


In your opinion, Duskweaver, how much closer does this bring us to a solid, playable Last Airbender campaign?



Not very. It does get very close to enabling a Calderon campaign, and would get there with a handful of tweaks to fix the scaling issues on some themes/PPs.
I'm still reading through it, but overall it seems to be a great book. They REALLY screwed up a few things like the Firecrafter though, but tying attack powers to neither weapons nor implements nor giving them any compensation for that difference except the +2/tier to-hit bonus.

They miss out on the +6 to damage you'd expect by 30th, the +6d6 crit bonus damage, AND any properties or flexibility you'd gain from a weapon or implement.

At the very least they should get a +1/5 levels damage and +1d6/5 levels crit bonus damage, and honestly I'd say the crit bonus should be +2d6/5 levels (you can already get magic weapons that deal +1d12 per plus AND have other stuff).
Fire Blog Control, Change, and Chaos: The Elemental Power Source Elemental Heroes Example Classes Xaosmith Exulter Chaos Bringer Director Elemental Heroes: Looking Back - Class and Story Elemental Heroes: Complete Class Beta - The Xaosmith (January 16, 2012) Elemental Heroes: Complete Class Beta - The Harbinger (May 16, 2012) Check out my Elemental Heroes blog series and help me develop four unique elemental classes.
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