So, last time Hoard magic was revealed, a bunch of our casual group got really excited. three different people put together hoard decks (two zombies, and a 5 color elemental deck too). We tried them all out a few times each with a variety of different players and decks.Not a single one of the 5 games was even close to close. The worst example, ending life total of the 4 "survivors" - 250 We took a total of 13 damage, 7 of which was self-inflicted.And all of this was with the following two changes - no three free turns for the survivors. Survivors go first, hoard is after you from the start. And if the Hoard deck hits a non-token first, keep revealing until you hit a token (we were playing closer to 40 tokens per deck, not 60).Again, even with those changes to increase the hoard power, the games weren't even close. It felt similar to the problems we've had with archenemy - either the heroes get rolling and never have a problem, or the archenemy gets rolling and never feals any threat. We don't play those formats often anymore because they aren't interesting.Any suggestions out there from people who have tried tweeks and have more success?
76125763 wrote:Zindaras' meta is like a fossil, ancient and its secrets yet to be uncovered. Only men of yore, long dead, knew of it.
The game Adam describes shows very nicely that the Horde needs to be able to be reactive, not only to creatures, but also to enchantments and artifacts. A Horde that loses the minute Moat enters the battlefield is a tad...lame.
Any mill card
Any card that prevents attacking
Any card that prevents losing
Extra turn effects
Cards which target all cards with the same name as a card
Cards which exile cards from libraries with the same name as a card (like the one before it, these are way more powerful in a format where tokens with the same name exist in a deck)
Also, I have read that you decrease the size of the Horde deck based on the number of players playing. I wouldn't do that. Always keep it at 100 cards, just adjust lifetotals to match. The more players you have, the smaller everyone's lifetotal should be because there are more of you drawing cards and casting spells.
I read somewhere when Horde Magic was first revealed that cards that fundamentally alter how the Horde deck plays should be soft-banned from the player's decks - if you draw them, you can cycle them for free. Such cards include mill and cards that prevent the decks from attacking.Specifically building a deck to go against the Horde deck seems like a really awful idea and should be avoided at all cost. I stopped reading the article after I read that you played An-Zerrin Ruins and chose zombies. Seriously, how is the format supposed to be anything like Left 4 Dead when you have easy anti-zombie tech?Some effects that should be soft-banned from decks while playing Horde Magic (because seriously, if you don't do this it loses half the fun):Any mill cardAny card that prevents attackingAny card that prevents losingExtra turn effectsCards which target all cards with the same name as a cardCards which exile cards from libraries with the same name as a card (like the one before it, these are way more powerful in a format where tokens with the same name exist in a deck)Also, I have read that you decrease the size of the Horde deck based on the number of players playing. I wouldn't do that. Always keep it at 100 cards, just adjust lifetotals to match. The more players you have, the smaller everyone's lifetotal should be because there are more of you drawing cards and casting spells.
From Mark Rosewater's Tumblr: the0uroboros asked: How in the same set can we have a hexproof, unsacrificable(not a word) creature AND a land that makes it uncounterable. How does this lead to interactive play? I believe I’m able to play my creature and you have to deal with it is much more interactive than you counter my creature.
MaRo: One of the classic R&D stories happened during a Scars of Mirrodin draft. Erik Lauer was sitting to my right (meaning that he passed to me in the first and third packs). At the end of the draft, Erik was upset because I was in his colors (black-green). He said, "Didn't you see the signals? I went into black-green in pack one." I replied, "Didn't you see my signals? I started drafting infect six drafts ago."
MaRo: I redesigned him while the effect was on the stack.
So I'm really interested in trying out this format for my casual group of friends who don't play magic to often. I do have a few questions though.So when you determine stuff for the horde randomly, does that also mean allocation of attacking creatures? Like you determine random who each creature is going to attack? If the horde really builds up a huge horde, that seems like it'd be a really long time figuring all that out, or you'd end up cheating and making it semi-random.Are there tricks or tips someone has for handling that? Or is it a situation that just doesn't come up often?
If you stopped reading there, then you definitely missed the part where the Horde resolved and flashbacked an Army of the Damned followed closely by an Endless Ranks of the Dead. The "survivors" only won that game with 8 life remaining. If something is giving your deck problems, you pack answer cards, the same applies to the zombie Horde.
One thing I thought of to increase the power of the horde deck as stated in the article is to allow the horde to play x/2 non-token cards per turn (where x is the number of players) except when there is only one person, but we shall ignore that for now because this is a multiplayer format. So, if you have 2 people, the horde plays based on those same rules, if you have 3, the horde plays the first non-token card then all the tokens up to the next non-token card, and for 4 players, the horde plays every card up to 2 non-token cards per turn. This way the horde deck has a way to deal with the increased size of the survivor battlefield even if it has more cards in its deck, because if it doesn't play cards at the same rate, it doesn't really matter how many cards are in the deck because it just can't keep up.