Hi,

I've been playing since 1982: basic, 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th.

Reading the books made me understand the Imperial system of measurement.

But why can't it be metric too? (next to the inpoerial measurements)

A new edition is an ideal opportunity to implement it.

Of course it shouldn't be an exact port, but an easy conversion could be done.

For instance: (bad example) the square representing 5 feet translates to about 1,5 meters.. but that's a pain to constantly compute in multiples (if I want to be quick), instead it could rpresent 2 meters-(much easier to multiply/compute). it wouldn't change anything to game mechanics.

Just my two euro cents for the players who live in a metric world.

have at it!

I've been playing since 1982: basic, 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th.

Reading the books made me understand the Imperial system of measurement.

But why can't it be metric too? (next to the inpoerial measurements)

A new edition is an ideal opportunity to implement it.

Of course it shouldn't be an exact port, but an easy conversion could be done.

For instance: (bad example) the square representing 5 feet translates to about 1,5 meters.. but that's a pain to constantly compute in multiples (if I want to be quick), instead it could rpresent 2 meters-(much easier to multiply/compute). it wouldn't change anything to game mechanics.

Just my two euro cents for the players who live in a metric world.

have at it!

Yes,

but overland travel, for example, is measured in miles, and everything else too.

not just the grid/combat

I hope not! That means the battle grid is mandatory!

[Edited]yes, no mandatory grid please!

Ideally the whole game would be converted to metric.

[Edited]Did you know that Canada officially uses the metric system? In Europe, we have 33cl cans of Coke. In Canada they have 355ml (12 ounce) cans of Coke. Canada is metric, sort of...

Translated to D&D, that would be:

Range*: 0.9144 meters per level

I think I’d rather have imperial. You get used to it after a while.

* 1 yard = 0.9144 meters

Yes, that's why it should be an approximation.

1 yard could be 1 meter, there, no problem.

The real offender though is volume measurement, since the difference between the two systems is more pronunced. Picturing a cubic feet is a bit complex if you are used to meters. The weight too is often an issue, expecially since in translation you can't really round it up like 5 feet/1.5 meter, so we have funny thing like equipment that weights 0,45 kilograms... Ugh!

At least a table of conversion at the end of the book with some advices on how to convert on the fly wound be a nice thought!

yes, you're totally correct, (1lb could be rounded up to half kilo),

but cubic measurement can be a pain.

but like you suggest: a table of conversion (well thoghtout and easy to use please!) would be a great improvement!

It actually makes a fair bit more sense to have a 2 meter cube then a 5' cube.

5' is pretty small, and was only chosen for easy math.

6' is closer to "average height" (5'6"). But 6 is hard to multiply.

So 2 meter's would be great, easy to multiply and much closer to average height.

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Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user. Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat. One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

No just no.

But seriously Metrics are far simplere to work with than that imperial system.

Please keep your posts polite, respectful, and on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks.

Yeah, in fact in the 4e translation (italian, at least) they rounded lb to half kilograms for equipment. Still, when rules call for more detailed weightings, we are stuck some funny numbers...

I propose measures in Dwarwen Cubes, Orcish Stones and Elven Ears (actually used by humans, they are just a bit racist).

Totally fictional and overly complex measurement systems. At least, everyone will be equally confused!

So just substitute them directly.

I don't recall any point in any edition where a "mile" was explicitly defined as 1056 squares. Thus, a "square" could be a assumed to be a meter, and a "mile" could be assumed to mean a kilometer. Yes, a Metric World would be roughly two-thirds the size of Imperial World when compared side by-side, but it wouldn't really be very noticable within each world.

Oh come on, it wasn't baiting, it was sarcasm! It was all in good fun. God I hate how humour does not translate from one language to another.

Encumbrance should be an optional module with a good set of common sense restrictions for other cases. I am not a big fan of calculating exactly when a party loses 1 square of movement due to an extra GP in treasure, this kind of simulationism is best handled by DM fiat or story requirements. If the party sounds like they are encumbered then they should move slower. If they have transport be reasonable about what they can haul off or just require multiple trips. As a DM it is your fault if you let them strip a dungeon down to the bare stones and then expect to be able to sell off every musty old crock coated with the "dust of ages".

Overland movement is just handwaved down to it takes you X number of days to go someplace.

Remember this is a public forum where people express their opinions assume there is a “In my humble opinion” in front of every post especially mine.

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I don't see why the use of "squares" makes the battle grid mandatory to any greater extent than any other unit of measure. In fact I see squares as a great simplification, because tiny changes in position don't matter.

Or you make European/Canadian characters 2.2 times stronger than American ones and increase the weight of all their gear to match. Then to do the coversion you cross out the word "pounds" and pencil in "kilograms".

... unrealistic? It's really important that, while you're attacking an undead dragon, the weight of the axe you're using is realistic?

In general? Not really. But it's a bit unprofessional when a translator (or localizator?) just goes and changes libs with kilograms, feets with half meters and whatever. For one, we could have funny super-fat humans. Also, is not a clever idea, because you can't know if in the future a product comes up and interact in weird ways with this kind of rushed conversions.

A table of conversion is probably a better idea. It does not occupy a lot of space and hey, it's a nice thought.

But anyway, often is not really such a big deal, you really only notice with volume measurement (hard to adapt) and with detailed misuration (for example jump distance). You get a lot of funny numbers...

Also, often you have to play with translated content and content that is not translated at the same time. For example, you have a translated PHB with converted metrics, but maybe you are using magazine content and/or an untranslated book with the original Imperial units. You have to convert the "incriminated" content, and things can slow a bit the game, expecially if the rules are complex.

Again, it's not the end of the world, but ensuring maximum compatibility of the game cannot be a bad thing, can it?

That's the weirdest moderation intervent that I've seen in my life :D (without offense, sometimes sarcasm does not translate well).

Which is so unforgivable since I'm in the song & dance troupe "Up With Inches!"

1 Square = 2m or 5ft (note: You don't need a battle grid to use squares. If you want to go gridless, you're being abstract anyway, and thus you can neglect most things that involve squares).

They definitely should think about using metric units for most measurements, but I think establishing that 1 DnD lb = 0.5 dnd Kilos, and 1 dnd gallon = 4 dnd liters is good.

But really, it would be a more flat and easy system.

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There is a reason we have 12 inches to 1 foot, and 5280 feet in a mile. 360 degrees in a circle. 60 seconds per minute. 60 minutes per hour. 24 hours in a day. 12 months in a year. Its called factors. There are many more factors in 1056 (number of 5' squares in a mile) than 1000. Same with 12 vs 10.

The problem isn't using metric vs british. The problem is we use base ten--due to our biological make-up (fingers on the hand). Base twelve is a superior base and would solve both of these issues.

So it makes sense to stick with a system used inconsistently, in only two countries (mostly), which is riddled with arbitrary constants and conversion factors, right?

Seriously, much though I like Imperial myself, I think Metric (SI, specifically) is the way to go.

Z.

Before the dawn of practical digital calculators, fractions actually mattered.

Everything is decimalized now.

without changing the game mechanics.

maller square feel more 'natural' - since it just makes sense that more than two people can walk abreast down a 10' halway. - And would appeal to us old timers who recall that three could walk abreast in a 10' hallway in AD&D. And jumping 3 foot squares would be the same mechanically - and yet the actual distances involved wouldn't feel quite so ludicrous.A s

Carl

Awesome plan. 3'4" / 1m squares make a lot more sense. The large size of D&Ds squares has always bugged me. Funnily enough, switching to metric squares would give a more realistic medieval feel - by bringing the architecutre down to size.

Z.

As a patriotic American, I say....

Yes, please! Thet's get rid of that stupid, cobbled together Imperial ststem once and for all and be eternally done with it.

Bah! Base 60 is superior! Go Sumerians!

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Euh no, we use base 10 because of this. 10x10=100. 12x12=144. 10x10x10=1000. 12x12x12= I can't do it without a calculator. Everybody knows how to divide by 10. Nobody knows how to divide by 12. I'm sure everybody here knows how much 10x10x10x10x10x10 [put any number of 10s] x 10 is.

I love buying food in the US! Net Weight: 12 Oz. Since you seem to know a little bit about physics, doesn't it shock you to have a weight expressed as a volume?

My favorite is cooking though. Cups, quart, pints, tsp, pounds, oz. Factors are 2 here, not 12. Or was it 4? I had to google it all the time. And if you're unfortunate to be using a non US/Canadian recipe, you're basically looking up the volumic mass of flour.

And then you go buy your gas, in gallons!

I'm surprised you don't have 12 pennies in a dollar .

I used to have fun in the US asking my friends questions like how many cups ni a gallon. How many Oz in a quart. Or how many pounds in an Oz (that's a vicious one). The truth is, nobody I asked ever knew how to convert all of these.

P.S: this isn't baiting. I'm just pointing out how inhomogeneous the imperial system is.

Nope. We use base 10 because of the number of fingers.

The catch is, EVERYONE who uses place-significant numbers would describe THEIR OWN system as base 10. That's because 10 is the smallest positive integer that requires two digits - a zero in the units place and a 1 in the place of next larger significance - as well as the number of one-digit integers (including zero). If we used (what we call) base 6 we'd count 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 10. If we used (what we call) base 12 we'd count 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, A, B, 10.

And either way 10*10 would be 100. 10*10*10 would be 1000.

10x10x10x10x10x10 [put any number of 10s] x 10would be a 1 followed by the number of 0s in the expression. The total weight of 100 grains of barleycorn would vary depending on which system of numbering we're using (because the meaning of "100" would be different) but the arithmetic would work just fine.Correct.

And you could divide "10" by 2, 3, 4 and 6.

You would also need two additional symbols to represent the tenth and eleventh number.

An interesting advantage in base twelve:

In base ten you know a number is divisible by 3 if you sum the digits and the sum is divisible by 3.

In base twelve you know a number is divisible by 3 if the last digit is divisible by 3

At least we gave up the rod, chain and link. For the most part (portages are still measured in rods for some reason - or were the last time I hauled a canoe anywhere).

And, no - it doesn't bother me to measure volume in ounces. But that's in part because I know that an ounce (volume) of water weighs 1 ounce (weight).

Reminds me a lot of Traveller which defined the ton as a unit of volume, that being the displacement of 1 ton of fuel. Thus you have the ton (technically the dton - or displacement ton - now) as a measure of volume as well as weight.

And for cooking, it's 3 tsp = 1 tbl; 2 tbl = 1 oz; 8 oz = 1 cup; 2 cups = 1 pint (American); 2 pints = 1 quart; 4 quarts = 1 gallon. Never mind hogsheads, and above - no one uses them - aside from gamers and brewers.

On the other hand - ages ago when I used to work as a Pastry Chef for a French restaurant (upper-state New York) we actually measured all of our non-liquid ingredients (butter, flour, etc.) in grams. No volume measurements in any system. It was our opinion that the only way to 'do it right' was to be accurate and that meant weight to the gram.

Carl

And it's not like imperial is all base 12 anyway - there are 16 ounces in a pound, and 14 pounds in a stone.

As for 12 cents to the dime - it's my impression that the dime (French for 'tenth' or 'tithe') was an attempt at a decimal shilling - where 12 pennies = 1 shilling, and 20 shillings = 1 pound. Pieces of eight, mind you...

...but OD&D saddled us with weights and measures that were all olde-worlde, and currency that was decimal, and made no sense.

Z.

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