Curiosity around deck-size

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It is supposed to be minimum 60 cards, which means it is easy to surpass that level of minimum with at least one or two, or more cards....


Anyone out there having a perception of what people usually field in a cardgame?

Since there are different classes, as standard, extended, modern, etc. These numbers may vary, but what I am asking is what are YOUR decksizes, and what are Your experience of the opponents decksizes.

Are they usually close to 60, or closer to 80?

I guess the real reason I ask is, that I'd like to minimize/optimize my deck down to 60, but it would simultaneously suck if I lost a match because of running out of cards.
60 is standard.  Very few competitive tournament players run anything but 60 cards, and losing to deck death is very very rare.
DCI Certified Level 2 Judge
Thanks for the reply.

It deducts one of my questions around how to build 'Thee' deck.


It assures me that I must create my black deck as a poisonous deceptive deck.

It tingles in my body already. Creating a deck that creates rage fits and 'haxxor-cheeter'-comments.

So far so good. I just need to get my 'kill myself as fast as I can'-solitaires down to -'Dead by end of turn3.' -And from there find a way to disable any blockers in my way. >:]
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If you're looking at mono-black for infect, I've played against decks that ran Lashwrithe, Plague Stinger and Phyrexian Crusader at a local FNM a few times, and while they're not teir 1 decks, the pilots really seemed to enjoy playing them.
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Nobody ever goes above 60 cards - not even to 61 or 62. It's always 60.

The reason for this is that every deck has some card which is the best card in the deck, or, in any situation, there is a best card that you could draw right now. For every card you go above the minimum, the chance that you draw that card is reduced.

I'm not sure if you are intending to build a deck for competitive play (in tournaments with entry fees and prizes), but if you are, then you really do need to have an in-depth knowledge of all the current tournament-winning decks. Not being aware of a very basic thing (like best deck size) suggests you would be incredibly ill-prepared for tournament play.

If you're just building a deck for casual play in the Just for Fun room, then you might find that the focus isn't necessarily on beating your opponent into the ground on turn 3, just to bring interesting decks and play interactive games.
Nobody ever goes above 60 cards - not even to 61 or 62. It's always 60.

The reason for this is that every deck has some card which is the best card in the deck, or, in any situation, there is a best card that you could draw right now. For every card you go above the minimum, the chance that you draw that card is reduced.

I'm not sure if you are intending to build a deck for competitive play (in tournaments with entry fees and prizes), but if you are, then you really do need to have an in-depth knowledge of all the current tournament-winning decks. Not being aware of a very basic thing (like best deck size) suggests you would be incredibly ill-prepared for tournament play.

If you're just building a deck for casual play in the Just for Fun room, then you might find that the focus isn't necessarily on beating your opponent into the ground on turn 3, just to bring interesting decks and play interactive games.



This is actually not true. Rarely but not unheard of, players (Conley Woods comes to mind) build for 61 or 62. The reasons for this vary but typically come down to personal choices on the players part and go something like "Couldn't decide on taking out a or b and then realized the deck wasn't losing to hand screw/land screw due to the additional card." As I said it is Rare but it does occur and it is usually someone good enough to compensate for the ever so slightly handicap of the extra +1 or +2 count.

Winter.Wolf (ugh at this new forum with the ridiculous double login)

Nobody ever goes above 60 cards - not even to 61 or 62. It's always 60.

The reason for this is that every deck has some card which is the best card in the deck, or, in any situation, there is a best card that you could draw right now. For every card you go above the minimum, the chance that you draw that card is reduced.

I'm not sure if you are intending to build a deck for competitive play (in tournaments with entry fees and prizes), but if you are, then you really do need to have an in-depth knowledge of all the current tournament-winning decks. Not being aware of a very basic thing (like best deck size) suggests you would be incredibly ill-prepared for tournament play.

If you're just building a deck for casual play in the Just for Fun room, then you might find that the focus isn't necessarily on beating your opponent into the ground on turn 3, just to bring interesting decks and play interactive games.



This is actually not true. Rarely but not unheard of, players (Conley Woods comes to mind) build for 61 or 62. The reasons for this vary but typically come down to personal choices on the players part and go something like "Couldn't decide on taking out a or b and then realized the deck wasn't losing to hand screw/land screw due to the additional card." As I said it is Rare but it does occur and it is usually someone good enough to compensate for the ever so slightly handicap of the extra +1 or +2 count.



Then of course there are battle of wits decks.



I've bought the cards and made a deck Now how do I win at this?

60 without a doubt.  Youll never get milled out at 60 if thats what youre worried about. Youll also never stall so long you run out of cards....least not against normal decks. You may run into one deck that stalls like that on purpose but most don't.
Ok. This is cool news.

I could easily understand that there would be decks of 60+, but not if they were somewhere all the way down there, or if the average would be around 70+  

My prosject is to create a monoblack, quite minimalistic one.
For the interessted, it is (atm) this;
 


































































































































































name:manacost:   # of cards:abilities:description:
Swampmana18
Boggart Birth Rite1revive2revives goblin from graveyard
Culling the Weak1boost4cost of one mana + one sacrifice gives four in pool
Dark Ritual1boost4cost of one mana gives three in pool
Phyresis2boost2boosting non-infecting creatures wih infect
Unholy Strength1boost4 boosting +2/+1 to creature
Typhoid Rats1 1/1defence4deathtouch
Flensermite2 1/1defence2infectlifelink
Septic Rats3 2/2def/att2infect +1/+1 (3/3) if opponent is   infected 
Corrupted Zendikon2def/att2creating swamp into 3/3 creature
Plague Stinger2 1/1def/att4  flyinginfect
Contagious Nim3 2/2attack4infect
Blackcleave Goblin4 2/1attack4  hasteinfect
Hand of the Praetors4 3/2att/boost4 infectboosting att/defence of infecting creatures
    60   


A seemingly weak deck, with cheap mana-costs, and creatures with very little bite.
With a little bit of goodwill from the Gods and Godesses of luck, it may become a quite powerful deck, given the right circumstances. -Notice how a Swamp may be turned into a 3/3 creature -> with Unholy Strength(+2/+1) ->  infest -> hand of the Praetors (+1/+1). I.e. a 6/5-infecting creature. I am proud of that 'invention'.


Other than that brilliant combo, if I must say so, the deck is pretty much linked together. every card has a true purpose, and I do believe I have managed to exlude any loose dead ends that won't be useful for the other cards in the deck. The symbiose is quite good.  


As a tiny footnote, this deck is a Classic-deck...   


I don't mind any inputs to this deck weaknesses, so bring on the critique and inputs. It is very much appreciated.
Well, considering that  you only have 4 goblins in the entire deck, boggart birth rite doesn't do very much at all.

Also, it's generally bad to mix non-infect and infect creatures in the same deck, it generally just serves to dilute each theme and make the deck as a whole weaker.  I would suggest cutting the corrupted zendikon because of this, in addition to the fact that you have so few lands to begin with, having one become a creature is also not the greatest idea.  An argument can be made for the Typhoid rats, as they aren't really meant to attack and deal damage, just block and destroy creatures.

I'd suggest cutting some of the rituals (culling the weak) and adding more swamps, you're likely going to want 21-23 at least.  Generally, you usually want a ritual if you are doing someing incredibly powerful, like winning on the turn you play it or playing a threat that can also disrupt your opponent (good old turn one Hypnotic Specter is the classic).

Unholy strength can be good, but you may want to look into equipment.  They usually cost more, but they'll stick around if someone kills your creature.  BoneSplitter is likely one of the best choices for your deck, as it cost so little but still gives a nice power bonus.  You may want to look into things that'll grant flying as well, so you can have evasion.

Another thing that is missing that you may want to include: removal.  There is even removal that'll give poison counters - Virulent Wound.  There are lots of good removal options in black: Doom Blade, Go for the Throat, Last Gasp, Tragic Slip.  The list literally goes on and on. 

One other category you may want to include is "reach", and I don't mean the ability to block fliers.  Reach can also be used to describe the ability to end games without attacking, mostly commonly available to red ("Oh, you have enough to block all my creatures now? - Lightning bolt x2 to your face, I win").  You have a bit of this in the Hand of the Praetors, you can just not attack and play infect creatures and add poison counters without attacking.  Other cards with reach in an infect deck would be Ichor Rats and things with proliferate (Contagion Clasp and Tezzeret's Gambit are both quite good).  Proliferate not only kills your opponent, but it can weaken or kill any creatures that have battled with your infectors.


To summarize, I'd do something like this:
Cut
4 Culling the Weak
4 Dark Ritual
2 Boggart Birth Rite
2 Phyresis
4 Unholy Strength
2 Corrupted Zendikon

Then add something like this, though there are LOTS of options:
5 Swamp
4 Bonesplitter
3 Virulent Wound
1 Doom Blade
2 Corpse Cur
2 Ichor Rats
1 Contagion Clasp


There are also good, cheap infect artifact creatures like Plague Myr and Ichorclaw Myr
Hope some of that helps.

My forever unfinished blog of the 2010 MTGO Community Cup: if you're ever bored...
Thank you, for the considerate reply, MTGKaioshin.

Ooh, but Boggart is nice to have. Boggart is my king. -Because of the reason that I 'only' have 4 goblins. Having Boggart up my sleeve reduces the hassle of substituting it with something else that I might not have accessible in my playhand. Those goblins are quite important. Highly infective creatures with haste. My Knights You could say. In this deck Haste may be/is of some importance. They are fairly expensive; four in mana cost. I can't really lose the option of reviving them if they are put to the grave. To field one, I'll probably already have a killed rat (fielded by one of the increase mana-pool-cards).


Before I ended up with this list, I had Ichor Rats. During testplay I found them to be too expensive. They indeed offer a 'free' infest on being played. My three reasons for not using them are; They not only infect the opponent, but also me. -I don't like that. They are expensive, mana-wise. -In the sense they offer very little blocking-wise. I chose to use some other (non-infectant) rats that are cheap, and have deathtouch(!) to offer. Those cheap deathtouch-rats can quickly become tainted with Phyresis, and if luck is there is the combination of Unholy Strength + the Hand of the Praetors as well that will turn them into a +4 infectious deathtouch creature. -If they don't survive that long, they'll surely have blocked well. They are my pawns.


Black Ritual... ...a must have in this setup. I am willing to mull a couple of times to get it from start of. Culling the Weak... ...I am in the working of taking your advice on this one. I won't completely remove them. They have their purpose, but I do believe something like a Doomblade could substitute one, maybe two cards. I do indeed have a weakness against such creatures as Kozhilak the Butcher of Truth, etc. A doomblade would be practical in such a case. Doomblade is my queen.

Adding more swamps aren't  neccesary. Doomblade is indeed one more mana in costs, but a dark Ritual/Culling the Weak should make up for that I f my lonely rat needs to be sacrified in the favor of a Doomblade. I wish the Doomblade would do more than a measly creature. It would be nice if it could also include something against those nasty sorcery/enchantment/illusions cards that the opponent may draw..


Your advices are good as gold though. When I get this deck straight, I'll go on to the next part of the project. Building a sidedeck where I can exchange all 15 sidedeckcards with 15 from the maindeck, without interrupting the flow, yet create something completely different. For instance a deck going from infect to sorcery. that'd be cool, imo >

I agree with Kaioshin, you don't need the mana acceleration.  You don't have enough game-winning powerful cards to accelerate into.  A turn-one 2/2 infect guy would be nice, but I don't think that's a strong enough play to warrant spending two cards on it.  If you really think you need the Dark Rituals for acceleration, at least cut the Culling the Weaks.  You only have two creatures who even cost 4 mana, and none that cost more.  So after turn 4, you don't need that acceleration.  You don't want to be sacrificing a creature to cast Hand of the Praetors - his abilitiy is to pump your other creatures.  And don't forget, as long as you're in Classic, there's nothing wrong with a Sol Ring (keep in mind it's restricted - you can only have one per deck).  That's all the acceleration you need.

The Boggart Birth Rite also can go - it will end up being a dead card in your hand most of the time.  Here's what has to happen: you have to draw one of your four Goblins, cast one, have it die, and draw the Birth Rite.  And what happens if it's turn 5 or 6 and your opponent has a 5/5 or 6/6 out, or something bigger?  You won't want to be spending two cards and 5 mana to get back a little goblin.  The amount of times it will work is far less than how useful that card would be as another creature or as removal. 

Don't be afraid of getting poison counters off Ichor Rats.  The amount of poison counters you have matters absolutely zero if your opponent isn't playing an infect deck.  As long as you can completely control how many poison counters you have and your opponent can't affect them, you won't lose to posion.

On that note.. you need a fattie or two.  May I suggest Phyrexian Vatmother?  Now that's a guy worth accelerating into. 

Think about Mutagenic Growth, too.  That card is very effective on infect guys and can work as both removal and winning the game a turn earlier than your opponent expects.  It works in your mono-black since it uses Phyrexian mana, you can just pay the two life.  If you ever add green, think about Invigorate, Giant Growth and Berserk for blow-out wins out of nowhere.

Good luck!
Ooh. That Phyrexian Vatmother is indeed a great card. Very powerful, and not too expensive either.
Very good pointer there.

I appreciate the regards towards not needing mana acceleration. Although, I am of a different opinion after some play. I don't have any 'game-winning powerful cards' aka. 'slow mana-costly'  in my book. -If one chooses to disregard the fact that the Preators and goblins are actually quite expensive.

Through experience I have come to the conclusion that managenerators like Culling.t.w. and Dark Ritual, even sacrificing a creatue can be of the essence, depending on the luck of draw.
It is actually possible to win during turn two(!)

I have also experienced an opponent that managed to kill of my swamps, but I almost(!) got the game game turned again. If I had had the Culling, instead of Dark Ritual, I would not only have gotten the goblin with haste fielded, but would have had that 1 mana extra needed to boost the goblin with Unholy Strength. It was slightly bitter to loose with 1 infect missing :O)


I am starting to agree though, that Boggart are less useful. since the goblins are all that expensive, I can just as well spend those mana/swamps on other things in my hand. -For instance the Vatmother!


Cool finding. Thanks.  
This was what I started with, from earlier post;



































































































































































name:manacost:# of cards:abilities:description:
Swampmana18
Boggart Birth Rite1revive2revives goblin from graveyard
Culling the Weak1boost4cost of one mana + one sacrifice gives four in pool
Dark Ritual1boost4cost of one mana gives three in pool
Phyresis2boost2boosting non-infecting creatures wih infect
Unholy Strength1boost4boosting +2/+1 to creature
Typhoid Rats11/1defence4deathtouch
Flensermite21/1defence2infectlifelink
Septic Rats32/2def/att2infect+1/+1 (3/3) if opponent is   infected
Corrupted Zendikon2def/att2creating swamp into 3/3 creature
Plague Stinger21/1def/att4  flyinginfect
Contagious Nim32/2attack4infect
Blackcleave Goblin42/1attack4  hasteinfect
Hand of the Praetors43/2att/boost4infectboosting att/defence of infecting creatures
60



And this is what I am running now, quite successful so far in my (causual) playing;
Red  means either changed(+/-), or completely removed...   Green means a new addition...























































































































































































name:manacost:# of cards:abilities:description:
Swampmana20
Boggart Birth Rite1revive2revives goblin from graveyard
Culling the Weak1boost3cost of one mana + one sacrifice gives four in pool
Dark Ritual1boost4cost of one mana gives three in pool
Phyresis2boost2boosting non-infecting creatures wih infect
Unholy Strength1boost4boosting +2/+1 to creature
Typhoid Rats11/1defence4deathtouch
Flensermite21/1defence4infectlifelink
Septic Rats32/2def/att4infect+1/+1 (3/3) if opponent is   infected
Corrupted Zendikon2def/att2creating swamp into 3/3 creature
Plague Stinger21/1def/att4  flyinginfect
Contagious Nim32/2attack2infect
Blackcleave Goblin42/1attack4  hasteinfect
Hand of the Praetors43/2att/boost3infectboosting att/defence of infecting creatures
Phyrexian vatmother44/5att/def1infect
Doom Blade2instant1Destroy Target Nonblack Creature
60



The Deck has indeed improved in the sense that some deadweight is gone. Still looking for alternatives for the Doomblade though. The deck is suffering somewhat from ungodly things as sorceries and enchantments.
Go for the throat is a good addition to Doom blade I usualy run 3 of each in a mono Black deck.
And Black can't deal with enchantments (or non-creature artifacts). Its one of its defining weaknesses. Its ways of dealing with Sorceries are generally expensive and have some sort limit on what they can effect.

I've bought the cards and made a deck Now how do I win at this?

Yes. Go for the throat is a good alternative if I need more than the doomblade. -but doomblade take out all creatures, not only the nonartificial ones. As a reference; In a Singleton100, I would surely use both.

---

I have been looking into making the deck into a 'revival of the dead'-one, but unless I have creatures with haste, of which the mono-black has very few of (ref; haste vs. infect vs. hasty flying. -Skeletons and Zombies are not very stressful creatures.  )
It would reduce my 'opportunity of surprise.' I strongly feel that I need the to blitz the enemy with something in the beginning to throw them off guard. One single deathtouch rat will, if not attacking, maybe make the opponent hesitate from charging me. knowing, wether or not his creature is 1/1 or more, it will die. Hopefully that hesitance will give me one more turn before I'll have to 'do something'.
-and if my relation to the dealer is adequate, the dealer will grant me the ability to strengthen that lousy rat with great strength + infect, wich will indeed make it into a greater inconvenience later on. (If my turns play out). 

Vampires are lifelinky, but very heavy on mana.

This is infact the very reason i chose rats and creatures with infection. Infection only needs to bring it to 10, instead of reducing health from down 20. Indeed an infectious deck would be all about haste (call it short period of incubation).
A black deck can suck all the life it wants, but it doesnt change the fact that a lot of (all of them?) other decks play on something like massproducing mana within 3 turns, just to field a Kozilek butcher of truth-like creature. -A proper manakiller for a black deck = not able to field any creatures.


I strongly believe the only way to happily win with a black deck is to have an arousing intimate relation with the dealer, and a healthy deck of cheap infecting creatures.


Wich lead me to the next question:
What is a objectively (preferably) good statistic when it comes to winning? Of course. it goes without sayting, 100% is best'est... ...but where do you (subjectively) find it good?
I have, as a proper newbie, won 10 games (against others) and lost 4  (total of 14 games, with this deck). Is that reasonable?


Are there others out there with a pen and paper having two colums, making a notch for every game played? -to make some statistic of how your deck is doing before/after changes?  



Cheers!
Yes. Go for the throat is a good alternative if I need more than the doomblade. -but doomblade take out all creatures, not only the nonartificial ones. As a reference; In a Singleton100, I would surely use both.



Umm Doom blade doesn't hit Black creatures. Mind you it beats Dark banishing which was the best I had when I started.


Wich lead me to the next question:
What is a objectively (preferably) good statistic when it comes to winning? Of course. it goes without sayting, 100% is best'est... ...but where do you (subjectively) find it good?
I have, as a proper newbie, won 10 games (against others) and lost 4  (total of 14 games, with this deck). Is that reasonable?

Are there others out there with a pen and paper having two colums, making a notch for every game played? -to make some statistic of how your deck is doing before/after changes?  

Cheers!



I think I have a good deck when it's above 50%. But then I also play random classic/modern jank combos alot. My standard aggro decks generally get about 70-80% which I think of as very good.
But honestly if you're playing just for fun what does it matter? Do you enjoy the deck (which may include winning) If yes then it's a good deck.
If your playing tournement magic then you want a deck that is above 70%ish if you want any chance of going infinte.

I've bought the cards and made a deck Now how do I win at this?

@timotheos:

True, true. My bad. The Doom Blade indeed ignores black creatures.
I think I surpassed mentioning that with my own thoughts regarding my other fierce opponents.

I cannot really say that I have tried to battle many black decks yet.
When I do, I can only pray that those decks are based on heavy mana-building bloodsucking leeches.

My aggrevating infection deck should (in theory) hold up against them. -Afterall they wont be able to(?) use 'things' that I can't handle. They might pull a lot of 'discard X amount of cards', but that is not neccesarily a bad thing for me.

My biggest concern are mana-generators  that can field something like that Kozilek-creature on turn three. A doomblade is handy there. -or against flyers. I don't have many flyers. I should look into exchanging a couple of rats with some cheap bats. If the timing is right a 0/1-bat can relatively easily become a 2/2 w/infect.

I haven't found any spells or gadgets that can give 1 or more creatures haste. Are there?
@timotheos:

True, true. My bad. The Doom Blade indeed ignores black creatures.
I think I surpassed mentioning that with my own thoughts regarding my other fierce opponents.

I cannot really say that I have tried to battle many black decks yet.
When I do, I can only pray that those decks are based on heavy mana-building bloodsucking leeches.

My aggrevating infection deck should (in theory) hold up against them. -Afterall they wont be able to(?) use 'things' that I can't handle. They might pull a lot of 'discard X amount of cards', but that is not neccesarily a bad thing for me.

My biggest concern are mana-generators  that can field something like that Kozilek-creature on turn three. A doomblade is handy there. -or against flyers. I don't have many flyers. I should look into exchanging a couple of rats with some cheap bats. If the timing is right a 0/1-bat can relatively easily become a 2/2 w/infect.

I haven't found any spells or gadgets that can give 1 or more creatures haste. Are there?

In black, I don't think so.

In red, yes, there are enchantments that give all your creatures haste.

Akroma's Memorial is an artifact that does it, but it costs alot.  There are some equipment that do it too, like Lightning Greaves

My forever unfinished blog of the 2010 MTGO Community Cup: if you're ever bored...
Yeah. That Akroma's memorial will be to expensive. I can hardly get any 4-mana creatures up quickly enough before I am being trampled (pun intended) upon.
Lightning Greaves  would be a glancing shot to. Not really expensive, but gives only one creature some boost.

I did find the Flesh-Eater Imp the other day, that I am now trying to implement properly.
It ain't got neither haste nor deathtouch, but it is a flying squig w/infect.
Átm, I am trying to figure out how it can substitute a couple of the typhoid rats w/deathtouch.
They have been good blockers, since they'll kill whatever they block. By removing the rats, i might not be able to block off cheap potshots, but I'll be able to fly over the opponents blockers to infect the player.

I just have to find a good balance, becasue they are just as expensive as the goblins, and I have a hard time accepting not being able to field much on the first turn. A mana-cost of 4 can be quite stressing for a black deck. Well see how it works out. I'll probably be back with an update.
Isn't it nice?

I am proud to say I have opened up my own bot!
Ulvetann2  

Yeah, I know. My repertoire isn't the greatest, but I wouldn't mind having you guys to check it out. You don't have to trade, buy or sell. Just have a looksie at it and if there is something weird, please let me know, since it is so new that It is still in the stability-test phase. (8)


It will improve over time. All my extras will go into it. 
A quite funny story.

I had my new bot running all yesterday while working. Like a test-run.
It worked fine. Except for the little flaw i noticed when I got home, I had accidentilly put my whole collection up for sale.
Phewwww. Luckily(!) I had no customers. There were a lot of niceties up for grabs. >

Anyway, disaster avoided.


I am curious to know what you guys think...

When you visit a bot, is there some bots that are more preferrable than others?
How come? My guess is prices. -What pricelevels do you find cool, and what prices turn you away.          
No offence but +90% of the boards regulars won't use it. We all have credit saved on our favorite bot chains and unless you are selling good cards notabibly cheaper then the main dealers we aren't likely to swap. Also we are unlikely to buy bulk cards from a bot with low inventory as it is unlikley we will be able to get a tix worth of cards we want and are unwilling to leave money on a bot which we'll never get back.

But some advice on starting up a bot:
Buy a second account and use that for trading and keep your original as your playing account. Then only put what you want to trade on the bot. That way it can't acidently sell your favourite card.
Don't ever use a 3rd party bot software. There have been numerous scams involving them, mainly hitting the dealer using them. (you seem to be avoiding this one).
When starting out keep a tight focus. You need to find a starting niche and get some customer suport built. You can't challange the big dealers striaght away they have invested $10,000's.

I've bought the cards and made a deck Now how do I win at this?

Thank You for the heads up.
I can assure you, that I don't expect to be reinventing the wheel, or have any expectations beyond having a digital bag where people can scavenge through my remains.

Yeah, I have two accounts, but in my lack of time to transfer cards from one place to another, I awkwardly started the thing for a testrun.  I can only wipe my forehead in gratitude of the lack of scavengers that day. Having umphteen thousand cards up for the grab would indeed be a very fancy reception to hold, opening a new store. Oh, well, tough luck on them. The day of opening is over, and now it is down to a measly 100 cards (for the moment) for sale and trade.


Hopefully I will be able to find that little niche, where I am not completely disappear in the sea of spam, and can provide a little shop that slowly and steadily grows into something that people want to return to.

As of now, I must motivate my marbles into conjuring something catchy, that doesn't turn people away, like those endless lines of underscores etc. -and a pricing that I can live with, without robbing potential visitors.

 
Soh... I was looking for something that could take out any pesky artifacts or creatures.

My deck felt pretty good, but it kind of had this big black hole were I would be defenceless if the dealer had something against me, dealing bad cards.
So I went forth and found this; Rats of Rath. Maybe my brain isn't rotating properly this early in the morning, because I am starting to get in doubt.
-I haven't tested it out properly, but the text makes me wonder. It says; "Destroy target artifact, creature, or land you control." My question is: Does it target MY artifacts and creatures?! -or just the land I control. If it just take a bite out of my swamps I'll probably use this card, but if I am targeting my own artifacts and creatures, I will burn this card. Passive-aggressive cards eating my few creatures isn't a very good deal for this deck. -for now at least. Foot in Mouth
Rats of rath only targets stuff you own. So it will only destroy your artifacts, your creatures and your land. Its main use is in suicide black type decks that need an emergency get out card for when the artifact or land that was boosting their stuff is now causing more pain then help. That and it is a fairly agresive creature from back when agresive creatures with no real draw back used to be fairly unique.

Also Black can't deal with non-creature artifacts. You have found about the only card that does and it targets the wrong side of the board. If you want artifact removal you'll ever have to add red or green to the deck or use an artifact board sweeper such as nevinyrral's disk

I've bought the cards and made a deck Now how do I win at this?

So, I think I have come up with a deck named Black Deck #6.

Since I last posted what deck I am using, there has been a lot of changes.
I have lost some of my infectious speed, in the sense I have removed several creature cards or reduced them from 4 to 3. This has led to a greater chance of surviving for a longer time, and having a chance of coming back into the game, if the opponent does some damage.
I have introduced Go for the Throat, Icequake and Hymn to Tourach, to remove/create havoc, and some Bojuka Bogs to exile stuff from the opponent graveyard.
It works pretty well. Weaknesses still exist. I.e. when facing protection against Black, manaburn and hijacking of my creatures, turning them against myself. Those weaknesses seems to be the greatest for now. -That and encountering thee dealer that only deals mana, or only everything else but mana.

Here is the deck as it is now;























































































































































































Name:



Manacost:



# of cards:



Abilities:



Description:



Swamp



Mana



16



Bojuka Bog



Mana


4

Exiling opponent graveyard



Icequake


3

Removal


3

Removes land



Hymn to Tourach


2

Removal


3

Removes 2 random cards



Go for the Throat


2

Removal


3

Removes a nonartifact creature



Unholy Strength


1

Boost


3

Boosting +2/+1 to creature



Dark Ritual


1

Boost


4

Cost of one mana gives three in pool



Typhoid Rats


1

1/1



Defence


3

Deathtouch



Flensermite


2

1/1



Def/att


3

Infect



Lifelink



Septic Rats


3

2/2



Def/att


3

Infect



+1/+1 (3/3) if opponent is infected



Ichor Rats


3

2/1



Def/att


3Infect

Deals 1 infect to opponent when fielded



Plague Stinger


2

1/1



Def/att


4

Flying



Infect



 



Flesh-Eater Imp


4

2/2



Def/att


3

Flying



Infect



Can be boosted by   sacrificing creatures. (+*/+*)



Blackcleave Goblin



4



2/1



Def/att



3



Haste



Infect



Hand of the Praetors



4



3/2



Def/att/boost



2



Infect



Boosting att/defence of   infecting creatures + infecting opponent on fielding a infecting creature.



60




The Deck Statistics;
Lands:               33,3%
Creatures:          40%
Instants:           11,6%
Sorceries:          10%
Enchantments:     5%
  
  Whaddya guys and gurls think? I'd reccomend you to try the deck out if you've got the cards.
It is a nice deck for relatively quick games. You'll preferrably win before turn 8, either by sheer awesomeness, or because your opponents concede in phear as soon as the first infect creature hits the board.  Enjoy.

Comments & inputs are welcome. 

Thanks to all for great advices so far.
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