Understanding Khyber

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Hey guys, I'm looking for some clarification on Khyber and it's inhabitants lol... 


After the Fiend/Demon Wars or whatever, they were all trapped in Khyber.  The rajas, I imagine any demon or devil type creatures (3.5E speaking, no 4E and Nine Hells) right?


When Xoriat invaded, the Gatekeepers managed to trap the daelkyr and their abberations down there too.  I think I've read several times that the daelkyr are trapped in their strongholds?


Here are my questions,

Are the fiends and such trapped in specific locations too or are they free to roam around Khyber?  Are there any 'city' like locations like in the traditional Underdark?


As far as the fiend hierarchy goes, those raja overlords are at the top correct?  WHat place if any do some of the demon/devil monster types found in the Monster Manuel have, some are more powerful (game-wise) than a rakshasa.  I mean wouldn't a balor demon or something be kind of a 2nd in charge more than a rakashsa Lords of Dust member? lol


The daelkyr and rajas don't really get along do they? 


How exactly would some of these fiends be 'trapped', if there are holes, gates, tunnels that go deep into Khyber, so simply put say they couldn't pass through it right (this goes back to my first question if they can kind of wander around Khyber)?       
Hey guys, I'm looking for some clarification on Khyber and it's inhabitants lol... 


After the Fiend/Demon Wars or whatever, they were all trapped in Khyber.  The rajas, I imagine any demon or devil type creatures (3.5E speaking, no 4E and Nine Hells) right?



Ish. I'm not sure about demon and devils, but those really powerful deamons (Asmodeus, etc) can be refluffed as Overlords/Rajas.

When Xoriat invaded, the Gatekeepers managed to trap the daelkyr and their abberations down there too.  I think I've read several times that the daelkyr are trapped in their strongholds?



Think so.

Here are my questions,

Are the fiends and such trapped in specific locations too or are they free to roam around Khyber?  Are there any 'city' like locations like in the traditional Underdark?



Cities, yes. The 4e ECG has one, I believe, but there can be underground, Underdarky cities. However, I believe the fiends are locked up tight, and only a few daelkyr are roaming around.

As far as the fiend hierarchy goes, those raja overlords are at the top correct?  WHat place if any do some of the demon/devil monster types found in the Monster Manuel have, some are more powerful (game-wise) than a rakshasa.  I mean wouldn't a balor demon or something be kind of a 2nd in charge more than a rakashsa Lords of Dust member? lol



Please stop using LOL. Overlords are at the top, but demon/devils aren't necessairly under the control of the Raksashas. Someone else may want to comment on that.

The daelkyr and rajas don't really get along do they?



When do bad guys ever get along?

How exactly would some of these fiends be 'trapped', if there are holes, gates, tunnels that go deep into Khyber, so simply put say they couldn't pass through it right (this goes back to my first question if they can kind of wander around Khyber)?       



The fiends were all trapped by the sacrifice of the Couatls. Very mystic stuff, and why the fiends are locked up tight. Not sure about the Gatekeepers.

Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid

Copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade.

"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,

"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all." -Kipling

 

Miss d20 Modern? Take a look at Dias Ex Machina Game's UltraModern 4e!

 

57019168 wrote:
I am a hero, not a chump.
Alright the key here is that in 3rd ed Eberron was pretty nonspecific about a lot of these things with a few exceptions (4th ed changed some things).

1.  Raksasha overlords are basically imprisoned, not moving around, but not all are in Khyber.  For instance you have one locked up in the Silver Flame, still most are locked up in Khyber.  For all intents and purposes they are the mightest beings you are likely to see on Eberron, you can use demon lords, evil dieties, primodiols and such to represent them if you want.

2.  Demons along with Raksashas served the Overlords, Khyber birthed both, these does not mean all demons come from Khyber though (at least in 3rd, this changes with 4th since the Abyss becomes their brithplace).

3. Daelkyr are also in Kyhber, some can move around and some cannot, this depends on the different circumstances.

4. Cities and towns exist in Kyhber but I would say are generally rare and tend to be bad places (places full of aberrations).

5. In 3rd devils lived in Shavarath but now in 4th they reside in Baator, anyways they are typically rarer in Eberron, as their primary concern is the war in Baator (in 3rd Shavarath had demons and angels native to it also). 
I've been very very busy and this is the first chance I've had to look at the board in over a week, but I'll try to add a response to this in the next few days. I'll also note that this month's Eye on Eberron is about Baator, and should address some of this as well.
I'll also note that this month's Eye on Eberron is about Baator, and should address some of this as well.



Oh, groovy! I never knew what to do with the....uhh...lower planes? or whatever.

Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid

Copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade.

"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,

"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all." -Kipling

 

Miss d20 Modern? Take a look at Dias Ex Machina Game's UltraModern 4e!

 

57019168 wrote:
I am a hero, not a chump.
So, I'll start by saying that this month's Eye on Eberron deals specifically with Baator and devils in Eberron; and, of course, that rule zero of Eberron is that if you want to change something, change it. With that said, MY quick answers to these questions...

After the Fiend/Demon Wars or whatever, they were all trapped in Khyber.  The rajas, I imagine any demon or devil type creatures (3.5E speaking, no 4E and Nine Hells) right?


First: The Overlords (Rajahs) are bound by the power of the Silver Flame. Most of them are trapped in vast Khyber shards, which are in turn in Khyber. But you can't go physically hang out with Rak Tulkhesh. You might be able to find his shard, and the area around it would surely be warped by his power, but he's not physically manifest.

Next: The rakshasa are the primary Khyber-spawned fiends found on Eberron. Demons and devils are primarily found in the planes, notably Shavarath and Fernia (and Baator, though it's a special case). However, any sort of fiend CAN manifest in Khyber, and you can use them there if you want. It's just important to note that they aren't as common as the rakshasa, and that they are unique to Khyber - that is to say, a balor of Fernia and a balor of Khyber may share the same powers and mechanical abilities, but their motivations and even appearance will be quite different. The fiends of Shavarath are embodiments of evil-in-war. The fiends of Fernia embody the destructive power of flame, the evil that can be done with and by it, the fear that it spawns in people. The fiends of Khyber are aspects of the Overlords they are tied to, and will reflect that connection in some way.

Beyond this, one of the keys to understanding Khyber is that it's not merely another name for the Underdark. Khyber doesn't follow the same physical laws as Eberron. It is, essentially, another plane within the world. We've said before that the best place to add one of the layers of the Abyss in Eberron is in Khyber itself, not as a separate plane. So basically, I could go down one passage to Khyber and find a vast realm of rivers of lava inhabited by foul demons; you could go down another twenty miles away and discover a network of organic caverns inhabited by minions of the Daelkyr. And when you take another passage out, you could potentially emerge in Xen'drik. This, incidentally, is how the Umbragen drow of Xen'drik are fighting a Daelkyr today, when the Daelkyr were bound in Khorvaire. 

Demons of Khyber can also emerge onto the surface. The rakshasa are fully free-roaming. Most other fiends are tied to particular locations - notably, the Demon Wastes, hence the name. But you could potentially have demons pop up anywhere you've got a passage to Khyber. This is one reason people respect the Silver Flame. It's easy for us to look at the Silver Flame and imagine that they are self-rightous witch-hunters, but the key point is that this is a world where the threat of supernatural evil is very real - and when a demon pops out of Khyber, you'll be happy to have an Exorcist of the Silver Flame nearby to drive it back.

When Xoriat invaded, the Gatekeepers managed to trap the daelkyr and their abberations down there too.  I think I've read several times that the daelkyr are trapped in their strongholds?


Unlike the Overlords, the Daelkyr are bound to Khyber but not to specific locations within Khyber. Orlassk, for example, is said to have a mobile citadel - an enormous gargoyle that wanders around Khyber.

Are the fiends and such trapped in specific locations too or are they free to roam around Khyber?   


It depends on a case by case basis. The rakshasa are free to roam. Other fiends are largely bound to a particular layer of Khyber; the fiend from the Stygian Lakes can't go to the Belashyrra's Heart. Fiend that can emerge onto Eberron, most are bound to the region directly around the passage to Khyber - hence the Demon Wastes has many passages to Khyber and an active fiend population, but those fiends can't break into Aundair.

As the power of an Overlord grows, it extends the reach of its minions. Hence, when the Overlord Bel Shalor broke free from the Flame, its fiends spread across Thrane - and if unchecked, they would have continued across Eberron.

Are there any 'city' like locations like in the traditional Underdark? 


Certainly. There are Umbragen cities in Xen'drik, cities of crazed Derro and vast dwarven ruins below the Mror holds, cities of aberrations and cities of fiends. It's simply the case that you can't always walk from one city to another, because they exist on different layers of Khyber.

As far as the fiend hierarchy goes, those raja overlords are at the top correct?   


Yes, but they are bound, which in most cases means that they can only influence the world directly through their prakhutu (exarchs), which is to say the Lords of Dust.

What place if any do some of the demon/devil monster types found in the Monster Manuel have, some are more powerful (game-wise) than a rakshasa.  I mean wouldn't a balor demon or something be kind of a 2nd in charge more than a rakashsa Lords of Dust member?  


First, don't underestimate the Lords of Dust. If you look to 4E, the Wyrmbreaker is a level 29 elite - more powerful than a balor (and that's not taking into account his talents with ritual magic and the unique rituals he may possess). In 3.5, most of the Prakhutu are around CR 24. With that said, one ot the major reason most of the Lords of Dust are rakshasa is precisely because the rakshasa ARE unbound and free to act across Eberron. However, if you review the Dragon article "Eternal Evil", the prakhutu mentioned there include a balor and a remarkable (16 class levels) succubus.

In the conversion notes for The Savage Tide adventure path I suggested that Demogorgon would likely be a lieutenant of the Overlords (because he's considerably less powerful than the stats we've provided for the Overlords themselves) - but he is a victim of his own power. He's less powerful than an Overlord and wasn't entirely bound by the Silver Flame, but he's powerful enough that he was trapped within his layer of Khyber. Think of the bonds of the Overlords as a fishing net. The Overlords are completely trapped; an entity like Demogorgon can poke his fingers through but can't get out; and the rakshasa, as truly tiny fish, slip through the holes and are free to act.

The daelkyr and rajas don't really get along do they?   


They exist on different layers and generally have no interaction with one another. However, they have conflicting plans for Eberron and would thus oppose each other if they came into contact. Of course, bear in mind that there are many Overlords and Daelkyr who feud with others of their own kind; they aren't exactly two monolithic forces. To further complicate things, cults dedicated to Overlords and cults dedicated to Daelkyr both fall under "The Cults of the Dragon Below."

How exactly would some of these fiends be 'trapped', if there are holes, gates, tunnels that go deep into Khyber, so simply put say they couldn't pass through it right (this goes back to my first question if they can kind of wander around Khyber)?       


Fiends (and daelkyr) aren't simply organic creatures. Magic is a fundamental part of their nature. They are ideas made manifest. As such, they are bound by magical laws that mortals can't perceive. So setting aside outside forces like the Silver Flame or the seals of the Gatekeepers, many lesser fiends can only exist within the area of influence of their Overlord (or in manifest zones, or when an appropriate plane is coterminous). Thus, they can freely roam within the layer of Khyber in which that Overlord is imprisoned; they can emerge onto Eberron if they stay close to the passage to that realm; and if the Overlord was released, they could go wherever his power held sway. In short: it's magic. The magical nature of a fiend grants it great power, but also comes with irrevocable restrictions. It's possible that a fiend could alter its nature to break free of those chains - but in that case, it would likely become an entirely different sort of creature.

As a response to your cities question in the ECG pg 201-202, there is the underground city of New Noldrunthrone, the abandoned city of Arak Yor location unknown, THe Citadel of Lidless Eyes Belashyrra's bachelor pad. Also cities could of been built around the overlords and Daelkyr, the Umbragen cities and there are THe Darkest Tides were the Aboleths live.