Lead the Purge or Grave Stampede!

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So I had a friend badgering me about getting Lead the Stampede and Gravepurge into his Tempered Steel deck. That was obviously not a good idea so I rummaged around for something to do with it because let's be real... drawing 6 or 7 cards in standard is pretty potent... and if you can do something degenerate with it then you've got a deck.

The big problem was that I didn't want to stack up memnites and 1cc creatures in a non 'lord effect' deck. Drawing 5 or 6 creatures you couldn't run out immediately also wasn't very degenerate. 

I glanced around and realized there's a deck built for this already, Heartless Summoning. Of course the most talked about builds do not involve green because Glissa was used, tested, and found lacking. Too big of a target for recursion and too easy to remove. But green and black definitely have some good creatures for heartless summoning.

So I threw this together and I like the way it looks. I intend to do some testing with it in preparation for the 5k at Memphis and I'll share results. If anyone is interested I'd encourage you to give it a whirl and provide feedback. I'll use any results to tune with your help. As I complete testing I'll also share my adjustments and whatnot.

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I think that, if you could stretch it mana-wise, a couple of Havengul Liches would be very fun in this deck.  It would only require 1 Island to be put in, since you have so many cards that can find a basic land.  The list looks pretty fun and strong as it is though.
something i saw with this list from a local was he played obliterator and prey upon
something i saw with this list from a local was he played obliterator and prey upon



I love the combo but there'll be games where you've got to hardcast obliterator and that isn't very likely.

Then we have to find room for Prey Upon.... kinda awkward. 

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"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Cannot do any testing with chicken snake bird thingies. Just no time.

I'm switching the way I built this and totally highjacking something I saw SereneChaos use in the Deeper Blue deck.

I'll finalize the build today/tonight and post asap. 

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How's the mana? Lich seems good so you can mind twist their hand away with the cat.
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The mana was fine actually. It was so good that I'm going to consider some other shenanigans in a revised build where I think I can push the base harder because I'm technically going to be asking less of it.

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"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Ok here we go, took time on lunch to put this together:

1. Creeping Renaissance was a card I tested a miser of and it was amazingly brutal.
2. Loved SereneChaos' architect/prototype portal build... I borrowed a few things from it.



So yeah the sideboard is a bit of a trainwreck; I'm ok with that right now. I like the thought of boarding in a few scarecrows and 1 assembly against the gamut of flying creatures out there now (delver, tokens).

Against RDW boarding in a few Peace Striders and sticking them in a prototype portal feels good.

Against control decks you have to play beatdown so adding in Pierce Striders, a Parasite, and a mindslaver ups the threat density. Sticking a pierce strider in a prototype portal at the right moment will demand an O-Ring answer or things can get unfair for them. That said there's probably something better to do here.

For the moment I'm more interested in vetting out the maindeck before I focus on figuring out the needed cards for the SB. 

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I'd hate to Sideboard against this
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That's part of the scheme I think.

Also, thoughts from anyone on whether we like Wall of Tanglecord more than One-Eyed Scarecrow for the sideboard? 

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"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Thopter Assembly seems sketchy in the sideboard of a Heartless deck, unless you plan on siding out all of your Heartless whenever you side it in.  As long as you have a heartless resolved, it's a dead card in your hand.  
Since you have green, I would put at least 1 Glissa, the Traitor back in.  I think that the One-Eyed Scarecrow > Wall of Tanglecord because the Scarecrow blanks all unboosted fliers, whereas the Wall can only get 1.  Also, the Scarecrows get much better in multiples (and you have Prototype Portal, so...).  In addition, I agree with RegalFanton: Thopter Assembly won't do what you want it to do.  And I also agree with catowner that Havengul Lich should at least be a 1 of.
Great stuff. Been getting feedback from friends and here's some changes:


4 Perilous Myr
3 Myr Superion
3 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Sylvok Replica
1 Darksteel Juggernaut
2 Precursor Golem
1 Steel Hellkite

4 Tragic Slip
4 Heartless Summoning
3 Prototype Portal
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Creeping Renaissance

4 Darkslick Shores
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Woodland Cemetery
2 Grim Backwoods
2 Buried Ruin
6 Swamp
2 Shimmering Grotto


SB: 3 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 3 Peace Strider
SB: 3 Pierce Strider
SB: 1 Mindslaver
SB: 2 One-Eyed Scarecrow
SB: 3 Ratchet Bomb



Note the mainboard Steel Hellkite and the sideboard changes for prototype portal degenerate hate machines.

And this deck has an awesome plan now. 

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"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Is three Myr Superion one too many?  I don't see a way to get them out other than Prototype PortalShimmer Myr would be a fun (devious) addition to replace 1 Myr Superion.
Myr Superion can be played using heartless summoning (free) or one of the three prototype portals.

I don't like Shimmer Myr.  

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"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

1. You need answers for: Inkmoth nexus, equipments, virtues/honors/summonings, o-rings, burning vengeances...... everything else I can't think of. I'd maindeck a couple naturalize in this format and not miss it. This is one I can imprint if its that good.

2. That's a good question. Creeping Renaissance is like both of those cards smashed into one. But I *can* make a new thread. Just trying not to clutter the forum unnecessarily you know. 

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"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Cat and I should be pumping out some test results for you in the next couple of hours. I'll make sure to keep you updated with the results. We'll go ahead and run it against some of the T32 decks from the Open.

Edit: Any more tips on playing the deck? 

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Use faith in the absence of science, not in its stead.

Some limited results (No SB - I was piloting your list Niche):

0-2 vs. Delver 

Geist was swinging hard and there isn't much in the deck that can slow it down. Despise and/or Tribute might be good options. I was left hoping to topdeck a Metamorph. This deck was kind of clunky against their Tempo game, especially since the land was creeping in for me. I would play a guy, he would Snag it to Time Walk me. I would try to play another big guy, he would Leak it to Time Walk me.  It might have been okay, except that I was taking 6 a Turn from the Geist.


0-2 vs. Mono-Green 

Luckily, I didn't see Thrun in this match, but Elder did me in. There's just no out to it until you hit Engine. So I threw guys in front of it, but eventually a second came down and won it, along with the Undying half of Geist. Second game was much of the same. An early Bird equipped with a Sword got in a couple of swings. I did some chump/sac action with the Replica to stop some of the shenanigans. Elder continued to beat and I took down a Geist with Perilous Myr. Buried Ruins let me get the other half of Geist off a Heartless Summoning, but he landed a Garruk and it was game over, as Garruk easily went ultimate to get past the late-game Wurmcoil that I landed to try and stabilize.


Take Aways: The deck could use a little more proactivity, along with a lower curve. There has to be something MD to take care of Hexproof guys. And it needs a way to generate CA or, at least, card selection bc I kept missing land drops in the first three games.

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Hmmmm that is good feedback. I generally don't want to run discard. I'm a more about the removal post resolution.

Thoughts on tribute over tragic slip?

Also we can cut a prototype portal for a 25th land I think.

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"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

something i saw with this list from a local was he played obliterator and prey upon

Try Deadly Allure with Phyrexian Obliterator #cackling
Hmmmm that is good feedback. I generally don't want to run discard. I'm a more about the removal post resolution. Thoughts on tribute over tragic slip? Also we can cut a prototype portal for a 25th land I think.



I agree with both of these changes. Also, I think the deck could drop some of the higher end finishers (Golems and the Juggernaut) to get some ramp going in the form of Sphere/Talisman/Warden of the Wall/the 2 mana Myr. I found that the deck relied a little too much on Summoning, and stalled when you didn't draw into it.

One thing to note is that I never drew into Tezzeret in my games. Also, I found the Portal to be a little counter-intiutive at times, especially when I had Summoning down. I understand that its for Superion, but it seems a little cute, and I think I'd rather just have the 2 Mana Myr instead.


Edit: Renaissance is seeming less worth it bc of the manabase. Simulacrums and a single Forest could suffice for the Replica activations, and I think Gravepurge is still better than Renaissance in most instances. With the changes, you allow yourself to run a more blue-based manabase w/ the option of Ponder/Snapcaster/etc. Just some thoughts.

Team PMP - Practice Makes Perfect

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Disclaimer: This member may or may not be associated with Team GFG in any other regard besides his admiration of its members.

Use faith in the absence of science, not in its stead.

That is weird that you never drew a Tezz. I cannot stop drawing him.

Let's do incremental changes in an effort to be scientific...

-1 Prototype Portal
-4 Tragic Slip

+1 Land (eeehhh forest)
+4 Tribute to Hunger

-2 Precursor Golem
-1 Darksteel Juggernaut

+3 Warden of the Wall

Let me know how that goes. 

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"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes


What happenend in here? The deck has changed completely, and I'm not convinced it is for the better.
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Well I got a wild hair in my bottom to make a substantial change because of the following:
1. Lead the Stampede + Gravepurge are good... but Creeping Renaissance did all of that by itself for half the slots.

2. I wanted Myr Superion in the deck. When playing Heartless if you're not trying to combo off you're struggling to produce a significant clock when you've cleared the board. While digging for a WCE dinking with 1/1s is sad. A 4/5 clocks nicely.

3. I changed the creature base to all artifacts because when you hit the summonings and renaissance back a pile of creatures the only thing holding you back is colored mana. If your creatures are all artifacts you can vomit them right out.

4. Changing the creatures to all artifacts let me add Prototype Portal... which lets me use Myr Superion more effectively. 4 Summonings wasn't enough imo to use Superion... I didn't have 1 drops to b-pod into the Superion because 1 drops insta die to Heartless. Plus Portal lets you do more degenerate things than just imprint Superion.

5. Making these changes let me switch to Tezzeret over Lead the Stampede. Tezzeret lets you clock effectively by making your 1/1s into 4/4s... reaches... and smoothly digs into threats when your creatures are all artifacts. Lead gets 2 cards on average... but Tezzeret is way more versatile if the deck supports him.

6. The major point of sadness is the loss of Acidic Slime... probably Glissa. The rest of the cuts do not make me sad at all.

I understand there's some circular reasoning in play here but I find it flows nicely on paper.

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"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Wow, thank you, Niche! I'm flattered in the extreme. Between a highly respected colleague stealing tech and a bunch of online opponents asking for my decklist, this deck has been an extreme ego trip =3


On the subject of your deck, I looked in at the original list and liked, but your saccy-drawy-techy G/B builds tend to be too subtle for me to get right away. The new list, as awesome as it is, is a bit much. And I think it may sadly be Portal that pushes it too far.

The Pod-Tezz-Heartless engine is ok, and the creature base is solid (I'm iffy on Juggernaut), but I think Portal needs silly mana to make it worthwhile. Architect provides a lot of the broken in my deck, because I can drop Portal-->Superion on turn 3 and still make one immediately. You're trying to have mana to drop Portal, use Portal, Pod Portal creature away, and your only ramp is Sad Robot. It has synergy with Tezz and Pod, but dissynergy with Summoning and Renaissance (give yourself a creature discount, then pay full price, while still taking the -1/-1; technically you get more reuse than CR, but at the cost of that useful creature never hitting the graveyard, making CR that much less effective when you draw it).

I applaud the fairly effective use of 4 engines, but it seems that by doing so much, you're making it very slow to set up the degenerate plays it is technically capable of.

[Also just noticed you took out the Pod; Personally I think it belongs back in]

Portal may be cool as a 1 or 2-of, but I wouldn't use it as a 4th engine. 

Other than that, it looks like it can do silly things, with early Summonings into Sad Robots/Replicas/Superions and Pods into Tezz into Renaissance.

Side note, my playtesting with Architect Blade has actually been moving me towards taking out MD Hellkite in favor of SoWaP, running Hellkite and a second Wurmcoil SB. Lifelink seems really, really good in the current meta. Wurmcoil on Portal is stupid. Even without Architect, you should try it =P
Etiamnunc sto, etiamsi caelum ruat.
Yeah this deck is all over the place because there's so many directions you can take it.

I'm going to end up cutting the Portals and probably using a mix of 4 Heartless 3 Pods... which means Tezz may go as well.

And I am going to put Glissa and Acidic back in... I will also probably keep a single warden of the wall; that card's versatility makes me happy to have it as a poddable target on 3 to skip ahead of slow decks.

Creeping Renaissance likely keeps a spot. 

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"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

My advice is twofold:
1:  Drop your mana curve.  Every deck in this meta is either extremely fast, or has a LOT of counterspells, or both.  Either way, you need to get a board presence quickly.
2:  Focus on 1 or 2 themes for your deck.  Running multiple engines makes your deck unstable, especially without any dig. 
I hate dogs.
Warden of the Wall is not a creature and cannot be Podded for.  I think the return of Glissa is a good thing for the deck.
My advice is twofold:
1:  Drop your mana curve.  Every deck in this meta is either extremely fast, or has a LOT of counterspells, or both.  Either way, you need to get a board presence quickly.
2:  Focus on 1 or 2 themes for your deck.  Running multiple engines makes your deck unstable, especially without any dig. 




Actually, the opposite is true right now. Tempered Steel is the fastest deck in Standard currently, but WRR, RDW, and Delver Illusions are more popular, and none of those decks is blazing. WRR in particular is almost like goldfishing for my deck, they don't interact at all while I set up.
Etiamnunc sto, etiamsi caelum ruat.
Indeed, those decks cannot win extremely quickly, but they can quickly put you in a position in which you cannot stop them from winning (control can set up a counter wall fairly quickly, WRR is a set clock that you simply cannot race, RDW can damage you to within burn range, and delver can get a significant board presence, then hold you off with counters and bounce.
I hate dogs.
My advice is twofold:
1:  Drop your mana curve.  Every deck in this meta is either extremely fast, or has a LOT of counterspells, or both.  Either way, you need to get a board presence quickly.
2:  Focus on 1 or 2 themes for your deck.  Running multiple engines makes your deck unstable, especially without any dig. 




Actually, the opposite is true right now. Tempered Steel is the fastest deck in Standard currently, but WRR, RDW, and Delver Illusions are more popular, and none of those decks is blazing. WRR in particular is almost like goldfishing for my deck, they don't interact at all while I set up.



if WRR isn't interacting it's because they are going for a turn 4 titan, while it doesn't happen all the time, i still manage do it at least once per match. so if your are goldfishing against WRR then they are doing the same and you have to ask yourself if you can beat something that poops out titans on T4, tribute to hunger will only really kill their solemn or birds, leaving them to swing for 10+ on the next turn.

with that said, i think this deck looks like alot of fun and i plan on testing it at FNM once i get the proper cards.
Turn 4 prime time, they're doing it wrong.

I get them out efficiently on turn 3 >.>

Turn 1, bird, turn 2 bird and growth. Turn 3, titan.

Turn 1 elf, turn 2, 2 elves and a bird. turn 3, titan.

Turn 1 elf, turn 2 dawn elk, turn 3 RG and RG. Turn 4 titan.


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Turn 4 prime time, they're doing it wrong.

I get them out efficiently on turn 3 >.>

Turn 1, bird, turn 2 bird and growth. Turn 3, titan.

Turn 1 elf, turn 2, 2 elves and a bird. turn 3, titan.

Turn 1 elf, turn 2 dawn elk, turn 3 RG and RG. Turn 4 titan.





I haven't seen too many wolf run lists with more than one or two manadorks. It's mostly sphere, rampant growth, solemn simulacrum, etc. They're perfectly happy with a consistent turn 4 titan.
The ones that run the sphere is a traditional red/green ramp. It's not anywhere as good as a mono green ramp.

My mono green is:
4 elf
4 bird
4 dawntreader
4 rampant
4 solemn
2 titan
4 dungrove
4 GSZ
3 Lead the Stampede
2 Thrun
1 Slime
Forests, 4 wilds, a pair of mountains, a pair of kessig, and a pair of inks.

If I play tittie they see play on turn 3 consistently. But more often you'll see Dungrove. Which is why I think 4 KWR is better than 2 KWR and 2 Inkmoth. Because if I have a KWR on turn 4, I might have a Dungrove swinging for lethal by turn 4-5 and there's not much my opponents can do about it.

Of course this is talking the perfect hand. My perfect hand doesn't involve ever getting titan out because all the cards I want out costs 1 or 3 mana and a turn 2 Dungrove is scarier than a titan can ever be >.> 16 basics and 16 cards that fetch out basics can thin a deck out so fast to where even a board wipe won't affect it much at all.

That being said, against the mirror, mono green walks over red/green and a turn 4 titan they're doing it wrong >.>       <.>.<                   ^.^

:D

As for Lead the Stampede, it's a wonderful card. And highly potent. I love the card. It's a wonderful trump card to use when you had a board wipe and you don't have a GSZ available at your fingertips.
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I kind of went back to the original concept. Made a few less sweeping changes.

4 Perilous Myr
1 Strangleroot Geist
3 Glissa, the Traitor
1 Daybreak Ranger
1 Viridian Corruptor
1 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Entomber Exarch
3 Acidic Slime
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Steel hellkite

4 Heartless Summoning
2 Birthing Pod
3 Tragic Slip
3 Ponder
3 Tribute to Hunger
1 Creeping Renaissance

24 Lands (still sorting it out)

Sideboard: To include Thrun, toolbox. 

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"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Run Geralf's Messenger. I know he's a pain to hardcast, but Podding Strangleroot into Messenger into Metamorph is great.
Etiamnunc sto, etiamsi caelum ruat.
There was a decision I made not to put cute synergies in to use with Pod that I cannot reliably use without the pod.

The deck is decidedly GGbu.

Making it GGBBBu is a trainwreck. 

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"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
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Heartless cheapens up every creature but Glissa.

Glissa + heartless + Perilous gives you a machine gun for any creatures with a butt <= 2.

The deck can still function fine without the heartless. Birthing Pod also works here.

More importantly on t2 I'm ok with Myrs versus Geists... on 3 I'm ok with Glissa or Daybreak or Corruptor (to force a myr to shoot something). I get a little pickier on 4 but usually metamorph is best... solemn won't hurt... and entomber has some good value. 5 I always get an acidic slime. Now I can use a pod to chain and pick and choose my draws... it adds a lot of value... but the curve out is still fine and interactive. 

I also wouldn't call a heartless summoning on 2 or 3 and a wurmcoil on the next turn a nuts draw...it should be happening with a decent frequency. 

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Standard Forum - Iron Deck Builder Season One Champ

Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes


If you block a strangleroot geist with Perilous Myr, they trade, his trigger goes on the stack, then yours. Your Myr trigger resolves first, then he gets his geist back after you've shot damage.
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The probability of getting a 2 of within the first 4 turns of the game multiplied by the probability of getting a 4 of in the first 3 turns is pretty low.



It's not that low. It's probably closer to a 50/50.

That said I'd qualify the nut draw as being able to skip ahead to acidic slime or wurmcoil or hellkite. That helps the math. Ponder helps if you play it correctly. 

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2011 States Top 4
Multiple 2013 IQ Top 4/8 Finishes
Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
Standard Forum - Iron Deck Builder Season One Champ

Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

There was a decision I made not to put cute synergies in to use with Pod that I cannot reliably use without the pod.

The deck is decidedly GGbu.

Making it GGBBBu is a trainwreck. 



The guy that took first place at my past FNM ran a similar list including geists and messengers. He never seemed to have a problem with mana, even though on paper it's a nightmare. His reasoning was actually that it gave him a reliable plan B if he didn't draw pod. 

That said, I know he wasn't trying to run 3 colors, and I'm fairly certain Heartless Summoning wasn't involved.

While we're on heartless summoning, I've been testing a number of lists using it (UB, GB, Grixis, BUG, you name it). It always seems hit or miss. The card doesn't show up nearly as often as I would like it to. On top of that, a number of people in my local shop have been running enchantment removal for fear of token decks that spam anthems. It's been difficult to pull off.