MontyBurns'/Shapeways' ships; EBON HAWK

Okay!
I decided to start a new thread rather than derail the useful "Supplemental Ships" thread. We have a relatively new entrant: Monty Burns, who creates 3d models and then has a firm based out of the Netherlands, Shapeways, physically "grow" the models with a 3D printer.
I have obtained one, the Ebon Hawk. On this thread, I'll give an ongoing review and in-progress report. I'll split the comments between the artist (Monty) and the producer (Shapeways).
This is overall important because it is a potential wellspring of supplemental SSB models and, for us other folks, simply new display pieces unavailable anywhere else. SO. Here goes!

FIRST BLUSH:
MONTY. Weeell, the piece is too small for Starship Battles. At 1.1" long, it's dwarfed by even the Outrider (a rather shrimpy light freighter). Barely larger than a quarter. Needs to be about 2".
Surface detail is almost nonexistant (more in a bit). Overall shapes are reasonably crisp, though, and I was pleased to see that the windows & engines were well-defined. It would have benefitted from at least a suggested P/S cannon array.
PROPS for creating the first model Ebon Hawk ever, in any media other than wood or paper!
SHAPEWAYS: Well, this is where it really hits the road. Best of planning & intentions goes down the ol' toiletten without good execution. Observations:
1. First off, I ordered three different ships and Shapeways couldn't print two of them. I'm told they're "hit or miss." I might order the same ones tomorrow and they could. Irritating.
2. EDIT: I would be remiss without talking about shipping. The ship did arrive in very brisk time, Netherlands to USA, and it was in absolutely herculean packaging. Little tiny one-piece model in a box about 8" on a side and packed with bubble wrap. They could have easily stuck the thing in a bubbleope and it would've been fine. So, props for that!
3. The material they use for the models is... weird. Unlike anything I've worked with. It's quite hard, which made drilling a hole for the base a little fidgety as I had to apply good pressure and didn't want to bore through the whole ship! I wanted to 'crispify' the main viewport using a razor knife, and that was easy. The plastic- or whatever it is - is porous, and has a rough finish. Soaks up paint like nobody's business. Weird. With two coats of primer, it certainly had an even appearance, but looking at it through my work-goggles it has a very rough texture. I'm concerned about smooth lines when I start to paint finishing colors. And a wash is out of the question!! It would bleed all over and create a dull grey blob. Drybrushing, also a no-go; it'd just make the rough plastic look even MORE rough.
I did note that there was an attempt by Monty to provide some surface detail in the shape of grilles and so on; but they were mostly obliterated by the physical qualities of the material.
Here's pic #1. Not much there! It's little, my camera sucks and it's just Primer. Off to bed.

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt." Scale video that I made with darthvaughn: " SW Minis Scale video Starship Modeler website. Jeff Russel's incredible STARSHIP DIMENSIONS website, with our favourite vehicles, vessels & critters from multiple sources, shown to scale. SQUADRON MODEL's Sci-Fi model kits section. How to make a model conversion to an Old Republic frigate.
Great review mate and thanks for being so honest, could you quote sizes in proper stuff though (metric) as I keep having to convert Cool
There are cannons on the 3D model, did they not print properly?

You can choose other materials, I'll make the next incarnation available in 'white detail' or white flexible and strong polished which has a much smoother finish.

varnish or 'klear' floor polish is a good tip to smooth the surface before painting (not too thick though as youll impair surface detail)

i'm also going to upscale her to at least 5cm so it fits in better.

Apologies for the not printing issue, mostly out of my control although I am trying. Starfighters seem particularly suseptible to this because they are so small. 

I have been able to get everything to print on shapeways including SSB scale fighters. The few that I had fail, I was able to go back and find the problem on the digital model when I looked carefully (usually what they call a shell - an edge or a vertex that wasn't fully attached to the adjacent one (very hard to see sometimes in a model of thousands of polys).  The free software Netfabb studio is helpful in finding some issues as well as resizing models.  Another trick is to "over exaggerate" the details and the smaller items in size(wings, cannons, etc.)  They look funny on the screen but once printed they look normal because the ship is so small...hope that helps


I agree that White flexible solid is a pain in the butt to work with.  Transparent detail and ultra detail are better but very brittle and I haven't tried to paint it.  But Rogue has some nice paint jobs on shapeway ships so I would follow his advice.

MontyBurns: all that would be great! I'd say no more than 5cm. That would be about perfect, but more would be TOO big.
No, the P/S cannon didn't come through, not even a trace.

Utarships: Do YOU print your own ships @ Shapeways? That's what you make it sound like. But your ships have a totally different material, like standard resin.

I edited the initial post to comment on Shipping.
Closest thing to laquer I have is Glosscote in a can, so I thought I'd give that a whirl; it appears to have accomplished nothing with that stuff! Dunno if I'll get to any dedicated painting today (or Friday) as work promises to be pretty cruel these next couple days.
"It is better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt." Scale video that I made with darthvaughn: " SW Minis Scale video Starship Modeler website. Jeff Russel's incredible STARSHIP DIMENSIONS website, with our favourite vehicles, vessels & critters from multiple sources, shown to scale. SQUADRON MODEL's Sci-Fi model kits section. How to make a model conversion to an Old Republic frigate.
I print most of mine from an American company; higher price, better quality.  Then I sand off the leveling lines (which come with most types of 3d printing). Then I mold and cast them myself.  I like the urethane plastic casts, easy to tool, paint, glue, etc.
I print most of mine from an American company; higher price, better quality.  Then I sand off the leveling lines (which come with most types of 3d printing). Then I mold and cast them myself.  I like the urethane plastic casts, easy to tool, paint, glue, etc.

Shapeways doesn't have one printing house, it uses several, some of which are in the States (hence the discrepancies between what will and won't print).

You also don't get the levelling lines with the WSF polished material, but you do lose a little detail.

White detail produces a lovely finish but is expensive and not suitable for smaller ships such as starfighters. 

I wouldn't be bothered if people cast my ships for their own use, but I'd be upset if they were casting them to sell on. 
As well you SHOULD be, "recasting" being essentially theft/piracy of your work. Nice that you're okay with casting for personal use, though.
I'm fine with paying more for better detail. Some of the ships you have are unusual/unique, so a little more $$ is no problem.
I'm thinking an upsized 'Hawk would fare just fine with the other plastic; it's basically a simple, sturdy piece so not too many worries about something busting off.
I'm ALSO thinking, when time comes that I can order one, I'll try the Hammerhead again too. Might have better luck! I'd prefer THAT in detailed/smooth material also, though.
"It is better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt." Scale video that I made with darthvaughn: " SW Minis Scale video Starship Modeler website. Jeff Russel's incredible STARSHIP DIMENSIONS website, with our favourite vehicles, vessels & critters from multiple sources, shown to scale. SQUADRON MODEL's Sci-Fi model kits section. How to make a model conversion to an Old Republic frigate.

You also don't get the levelling lines with the WSF polished material, but you do lose a little detail.




You are right about WSF polished and unpolished both have no leveling lines.  They must spray the material somehow instead of secreting it by layer.


And I agree you shouldn't recast without permission. I saw some dudes on SCN busting some guy for selling recasts...small community polices its own...

I've gotten WSF models with lines... and WSF Polished with polished lines :-p

So it does happen.
My unofficial SSB Website 4-14-10 Uploaded the Base Pack of stat cards for Desperate Encounters. These cards are for the 60 stock SSB Models, making them compatible with DE. Coming Soon: DE: Reputations. Reputations in battle are earned, not given... An expansion pack containing stat cards for unique fighter squadrons, unique versions of stock SSB ships, and generic versions of unique SSB ships.
Tiny 'stage I' of the 'Hawk.

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt." Scale video that I made with darthvaughn: " SW Minis Scale video Starship Modeler website. Jeff Russel's incredible STARSHIP DIMENSIONS website, with our favourite vehicles, vessels & critters from multiple sources, shown to scale. SQUADRON MODEL's Sci-Fi model kits section. How to make a model conversion to an Old Republic frigate.


I wouldn't be bothered if people cast my ships for their own use, but I'd be upset if they were casting them to sell on. 



I saw your post in another thread stating that you make about $0.10 per model.  Now, I'm just throwing this out there as a hypothetical idea, but if someone decided to recast your ships, and sent you even $1 per ship they recast (through Paypal, for example), they'd get a great deal on the ships they made, and you'd see more profit.  Am I correct?  
IMAGE(http://home.comcast.net/~jps201/mst3k_files/ms_seats.gif) "An opinion is not a right to be express whenever it is false/incorrect/a lie." -LOL
hi monty are going to put your tie advanced/avenger , assault gunboat and tie defender back up in the near future? thanks
Well, here it is: the lil' baby Ebon Hawk. It would've benefitted from a wash, but I don't think the material was conducive to it and I didn't want to utterly wreck her!







I have not yet received a "we failed" notification from Shapeways about her big sister (polished plastic, this time), so keep your fingers crossed!
"It is better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt." Scale video that I made with darthvaughn: " SW Minis Scale video Starship Modeler website. Jeff Russel's incredible STARSHIP DIMENSIONS website, with our favourite vehicles, vessels & critters from multiple sources, shown to scale. SQUADRON MODEL's Sci-Fi model kits section. How to make a model conversion to an Old Republic frigate.
Just a thought guys, I've found a coat of 'klear' floor polish really helps with the WSF material, seals the surface and smooths it, making the mini a lot easier to paint.

Works well with the naval minis I've had done in this material.

It's called pledge multi surface wax here in Britain. 
Well, Shapeways has in fact sent the new SSB-size, polished material Ebon Hawk, so apparently Success (took 'em longer this time). Got a UPS tracking number. Looking forward to getting it, posting pics and getting to work!
"It is better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt." Scale video that I made with darthvaughn: " SW Minis Scale video Starship Modeler website. Jeff Russel's incredible STARSHIP DIMENSIONS website, with our favourite vehicles, vessels & critters from multiple sources, shown to scale. SQUADRON MODEL's Sci-Fi model kits section. How to make a model conversion to an Old Republic frigate.
Awright! Here we go!
Got my Shapeways package today. Once again, herculean packaging; nothing was gonna hurt THAT little model. Took them a lot longer this go 'round, but I'd rather wait for a good product than get a marginal piece quickly.
And a good product it is! The pics below are just the first blush, right out of the box.
This is the 2" Ebon Hawk, and I opted for the polished/sturdy plastic this time. I figured the polishing process would have obliterated any surface detail, but this was not the case; there's sorta concentric rings on the top & bottom of the aft hull, of differing widths. This might be a result of the "growing" process rather than a conscious effort by Monty, but regardless it provides a nice bit of surface detail. I'll have to be patient when painting (gonna use spray I think) so as to not eradicate the lines.
The P/S "quadlasers" are in pronounced evidence this time. All recesses & detail bits are flawlessly crisp; unlike resin casting, CAD printing doesn't produce bubbles or seams so the thing is just squeaky-clean.
It's also quite large; compare it to the Millenium Falcon. I know, I know... 2" is just what I asked for! In presence though, it's big. However, in terms of pure scale I actually think it's right about on-time with the WotC Falcon - players of KotOR will recall that the Hawk's cockpit was quite roomy compared to the Falcon's relative cubbyhole, and so was the rest of the ship.
Requisite IG-58 scale note: The deckplan in Starships of the Galaxy shows the Dynamic-class to shake out to 27m. Wookieepedia gives the Ebon Hawk's length as 24m. The model is 52mm. This means that for 24m, the piece is about 1/461 scale and at 27m it's 1/519 scale. Just for grins.


L to R: WotC Millenium Falcon, new WotC-scale Ebon Hawk, original small Ebon Hawk (completed)


Though too white for any detail, you can see it's a big hunka' love.

Now! It just so happens I'm starting out on two days off from work; so, we'll get to see a bit of how she develops! Let's get a glass of wine and start cleaning her up.
"It is better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt." Scale video that I made with darthvaughn: " SW Minis Scale video Starship Modeler website. Jeff Russel's incredible STARSHIP DIMENSIONS website, with our favourite vehicles, vessels & critters from multiple sources, shown to scale. SQUADRON MODEL's Sci-Fi model kits section. How to make a model conversion to an Old Republic frigate.
For MONTY:
With the success of this latest piece (and waiting for the primer to dry), I'm looking at some others. Some questions for ya:
1. HAMMERHEAD CRUISER & Y-WING PROTOTYPE: What on earth is "frosted" plastic? That's a new one.
I see the Hammerhead chin gun was removed, so perhaps it will print now. Do you know how long the model is? Important, 'cos I need to look into guns for it.
2. SYSTEM PATROL CRAFT: Can you ask them to produce it in Polished?
3. WotC Scale EBON HAWK: That's what I have, but why are all options so relatively expensive? Is it just 'supply & demand?' Are they just being greedy?
4. Do you know if they've had success printing ships with finlets & gun barrels, like the HOWLRUNNER?
Thanks, Mon! 
Nice model, here. 
"It is better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt." Scale video that I made with darthvaughn: " SW Minis Scale video Starship Modeler website. Jeff Russel's incredible STARSHIP DIMENSIONS website, with our favourite vehicles, vessels & critters from multiple sources, shown to scale. SQUADRON MODEL's Sci-Fi model kits section. How to make a model conversion to an Old Republic frigate.
I've bought I7s from different modelers and the gun barrels print.  for Monty's you probably won't know until the first person tries to buy it...

According to the Hammerhead model's "profile", the model is 2 inches long.  all models have their dimensions given on Shapeways.



My unofficial SSB Website 4-14-10 Uploaded the Base Pack of stat cards for Desperate Encounters. These cards are for the 60 stock SSB Models, making them compatible with DE. Coming Soon: DE: Reputations. Reputations in battle are earned, not given... An expansion pack containing stat cards for unique fighter squadrons, unique versions of stock SSB ships, and generic versions of unique SSB ships.
Okay, this is just a start; hard to get a good pic.
The upper turret had no guns evident, so I dug into the good ol' 1/700 warship-bits box and picked out a dual gun with a butt I could trim down. With some difficulty (the plastic is hard to work), I carefully cut out a little rectangle from the turret to accomodate the guns. After supergluing 'em, I started light coats of Testor's Flat Gull Grey. It needs more coats (and a lot of drying), but I wanted to give a vague idea:

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt." Scale video that I made with darthvaughn: " SW Minis Scale video Starship Modeler website. Jeff Russel's incredible STARSHIP DIMENSIONS website, with our favourite vehicles, vessels & critters from multiple sources, shown to scale. SQUADRON MODEL's Sci-Fi model kits section. How to make a model conversion to an Old Republic frigate.
Monty,

what's going on with your Howlrunner?  I just got a messge from Shapeways saying they're not selling it anymore and canceling my order.  Will you be uploading a alter version that might pirnt better?
If Monty doesn't reply, there are other howlrunner models available.
My unofficial SSB Website 4-14-10 Uploaded the Base Pack of stat cards for Desperate Encounters. These cards are for the 60 stock SSB Models, making them compatible with DE. Coming Soon: DE: Reputations. Reputations in battle are earned, not given... An expansion pack containing stat cards for unique fighter squadrons, unique versions of stock SSB ships, and generic versions of unique SSB ships.
Am I missing it or was there a link to his shapeways store?
If Monty doesn't reply, there are other howlrunner models available.

Oh?  From where / who?
Monty's store:  www.shapeways.com/shops/montysminis

or Howlrunners:

www.shapeways.com/shops/demiurge?sg34656[page]=1#sg34656
www.shapeways.com/shops/einargosric?sg43...[page]=4&galleryViewList=1&s=36 (Can't remember if this guy as any Howlrunners or not)
My unofficial SSB Website 4-14-10 Uploaded the Base Pack of stat cards for Desperate Encounters. These cards are for the 60 stock SSB Models, making them compatible with DE. Coming Soon: DE: Reputations. Reputations in battle are earned, not given... An expansion pack containing stat cards for unique fighter squadrons, unique versions of stock SSB ships, and generic versions of unique SSB ships.
Thanks it can be hard to find what you want as everyone is using similar names to avoid the big bad lawsuit.


umm, did all of Monty's scifi stuff go away?  i just ordered from him the other day...  or was that somehow the wrong link?
Didn't notice before.  He must have deleted them.
My unofficial SSB Website 4-14-10 Uploaded the Base Pack of stat cards for Desperate Encounters. These cards are for the 60 stock SSB Models, making them compatible with DE. Coming Soon: DE: Reputations. Reputations in battle are earned, not given... An expansion pack containing stat cards for unique fighter squadrons, unique versions of stock SSB ships, and generic versions of unique SSB ships.
Huh! I opened the link, and they indeed ARE all gone. Wonder if that was his doing, or Shapeways'. Pity - I kept wanting to get the Hammerhead cruiser, but Shapeways would only do it in that hideous WSF plastic. Well, at least I got my Ebon Hawk. Deleted THAT link, as it no longer has any purpose.
"It is better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt." Scale video that I made with darthvaughn: " SW Minis Scale video Starship Modeler website. Jeff Russel's incredible STARSHIP DIMENSIONS website, with our favourite vehicles, vessels & critters from multiple sources, shown to scale. SQUADRON MODEL's Sci-Fi model kits section. How to make a model conversion to an Old Republic frigate.
So now that Monty's stuff has been taken down, does anyone know of a good source for R-41 Starchasers or Missile Boats?
The missile boats never printed.  And  I ordered the R41s in high detail (so expensive...) and they were crap.  Most don't even have guns on them, and the wings are broken on about half.

Be glad you didn't waste your money.

And I have not seen any other models for those ships.  If I do, I will post here.
My unofficial SSB Website 4-14-10 Uploaded the Base Pack of stat cards for Desperate Encounters. These cards are for the 60 stock SSB Models, making them compatible with DE. Coming Soon: DE: Reputations. Reputations in battle are earned, not given... An expansion pack containing stat cards for unique fighter squadrons, unique versions of stock SSB ships, and generic versions of unique SSB ships.
That'd be great, thanks.