Chris Perkins says there's only one story worth telling in Dragonlance

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Chris Perkins at WotC said THIS!
"If you ask me what I think is the most iconic D&D story, I’d probably defend the War of the Lance as my #1 choice. I grew up reading The Dragonlance Chronicles, and nothing else in my opinion comes close to feeling as epic. However, the Dragonlance® setting is hamstrung by the fact that there’s one story worth telling, and every other adventure seems to pale in comparison. (Feel free to disagree.)"

SO, let me begin with this sharp comment.  I think Dragonlance is hamstrung, only if you think it's hamstrung.  I think that someone needs to take you to a pretty EPIC series of 3.5e D&D Dragonlance game modules written by Margaret Weis Productions.  I think someone needs to give you a copy of the uber book Price of Courage, a Dragonlance game module.  Play though all 361 PAGES of a single GAME MODULE before you have the gall to say that there's only one story worth telling.

Finally, if you really believe that Dragonlance is hamstrung, then you wouldn't mind giving the license to a 3rd party that can make some new Dragonlance adventures.  Frankly, WotC took such a license away from Margaret Weis Productions for 3.5e, and so there wasn't anything for 4e, except bits and pieces in all the other 4e books.   I say, nay, I dare you, to give Dragonlance to someone who can handle it.  But I don't think WotC has the nuts.  Ending the license, vaulting a setting that to this day, still has reprinted novels and ebooks, and preventing a company from making more GAME MODULES OF 361 PAGES, it's clear to me, that the setting is hamstrung only because WotC did the hamstringing.  So Chris, put your money where your mouth is. If you think it isn't worth WotC's time to handle a "hamstrung setting," give the license of the Dragonlance setting to someone else for D&DNext, if you dare.  

Weldon Chen

Dragonlance Fan



Sorry folks.  Had to blow off some steam. 



I agree.
 

I dream of Beer Head Armies.

Autocard is our friend. [c‍]Urborg Mindsucker[/‍c] → Urborg Mindsucker

I agree -- with Chris Perkins.
Couldn't agree more. A setting is only "hamstrung" by the lack of creativity put into the project. If there is a lack of direction in the current group working with it, new blood (or the original authors) should be given a fair shot to inject new life. Dragonlance is one of the best settings in all of fantasy and there is so much material to work with and expand upon that it is just lazy and unimaginative to consider it hamstrung in any capacity.
I don't agree with Chris that Dragonlance only has one Epic story. You have at least two Tongue Out with the 1st and 2nd Generation of the Companions. You also have the Jean Rabe books (which although not my favourites are also there). You also have two other continents on Krynn which could easily have their own epic adventures plus, you have rich pre-War of the Lance stuff and intervening years that are yet to be explored. The problem Dragonlance has I think is the relationships with the main contributors to that world. Even those people that aren't Margaret or Tracey that provided input don't seem to be all that well respected at Wizards and Dragonlance is for some reason seen as an inferior product to Forgotten Realms (except when it comes to stealing races like the Draconians and desperately trying to recreate them in a number of different forms). Tinker Gnomes are another ingenious and as far as I'm aware original race. I mean imagine these steampunk guys in a D&D world (oh.. wait.. isn't that kind of what Eberron has Laughing - and for the record I like what I've played of Eberron).

I say the same thing to Chris as I say to anyone that tells me that 4e doesn't allow for roleplay. Use your imagination and don't get stuck in a "what they wrote is gospel". If you want your "Vexing Overgrowth" to be a pack of ghostly wolves than do it (thanks to ShaneL for that example).
Raistlin is still struggling with Godhood.
Maybe this is a new form of crowdsourcing? Bait some fans who have been known to contribute to first class products in the past and bang! Free ideas for new 5th ed material. Cool

As the OP said, just take a look at Cam Banks' modules for the 3.5ed and you get all you need to contradict this statement.
This is a very controversial subject. 

My thoughts:

1) The DL adventure modules ARE very hard to top.
2) The original storyline of Dragonlance IS extremely hard to match.

BUT

a) I loved what Margaret Weis productions did with the 3.5 edition of Dragonlance.
b) They needed to write more adventures to prove the concept and support the sourcebooks, but I suspect adventures weren't as commercially viable - good published adventures rarely are as they take a lot of time to develop.
c) If they hadn't lost the licence they might have been able to carry on producing some great storylines and adventure material. Take a look at some of the Tracy Hickman designed mini-adventures in some of the sourcebooks. Awesome!
d) Until we get lots of new adventures / novels of the same quality as the original product line, people will always think DL is a one-story setting.
e) I don't think the Chaos War helps. Too epic. Too world-changing.

Another thought/postamble:

I started out running a Tree Lords campaign (old 2nd ed post-war supplement, a lot less well-realised than the original stuff) and suffered a real crisis of confidence for a while ("It can't top the original DL saga, people will have expectations" etc. etc.). I ended up tearing the whole thing up and stitching it back together into a fleshed out campaign, pulling in a lot of emotive themes and references from the books (not world-changing events, I don't think DL is really Epic at it's heart - it's more about People). It's taken a while, but gradually it began to work as the PCs developed personalities and the events and background our campaign took on a life of their own. At the start, I wanted to refer to the Heroes of the Lance or the War all the time, but now the players couldn't really care less as their characters are Heroes in their own right, they've got their own battles and stories to tell from the blighted forest.


Mr. Perkins is somewhat correct in that THE story of Dragonlance is the War of the Lance. No other quite matches it. However, it only takes creativity to still get enjoyment out of a game, even if the campaign is set in the same time period.

In college, I ran a 2e Dragonlance campaign set just after the War of the Lance.  The character never met the Companions of the Lance, and yet they still had their own great adventures.  That was 20 years ago. My players STILL talk about that campaign to this day.  I daresay MY campaign wasn't hamstrung.

What bothers me about WotC's decision is that they did NOTHING for 4e, except for including draconians in the Draconomicon.  I get that they don't want to put out modules for it, that makes sense.  But they couldn't have put out a campaign setting?  Even when the anniversary of DL was near? No, frankly, I'm a bit offended as a long time customer that they treated DL fans this way.

At the very least, they could have licensed it out - whether to MWP or someone else. They chose not to. That act, and the nearing of the anniversary, was nothing more than deliberate ruse to get DL fans to think DL would be the campaign setting, and then instead, they announced DS or Eberron or whichever setting it was (neither of which I ever liked, by the way.)

So, if there is any issue with hamstringing, it's on the part of unimaginative and uncreative folks at WotC.  You know, if they said, "hey, the business model isn't there - there is no benefit for us to do this" I would at least respect their honesty.  But to say that it's just hamstrung because nothing tops the War of the Lance?  Phooey.  Lack of creativity and imagination.

I don't know what DnD Next portends for DL, but given their track record, I am not hopeful. Fortunately, there is enough fan generated stuff to play DL in 4e.  But why they couldn't do taht with Eberron or DS, I will never know.

            
I disagree with Chris's hamstrung quote. I think many of the posters here said it better than i could. I think Dragonlance should be in D&D Next without question.
That's our goal as players and creators, isn't it? Yes, the War of the Lance is amazing and you can get lost in that adventure over and over. I wouldn't blame you, I know I've done it. Our goal is to push the world beyond it, the novels have taken the Krynn far from that war and had several since. As players and DMs I think the world as the last several novels left it is ripe for adventurers to step back into.
Sure, adventurers can just step back in, but it's not the same world now that we fell in love with years ago in the War of the Lance.

I think that to restore that feel, they need to find a way to bring back Takhisis, and restore Paladine to godhood.  I'm not a fan of Star Trek style time travel and retcons so to speak, but I think that's sort of what the setting needs...having Tas change something with his time travelling machine, which essentially re-sets things to the end of the Chaos War, with the Solamnics in the west and Knights of Takhisis in the east staring at each other over some sort of DMZ, with war ready to ignite/reignite.

Perhaps going all the way back to the Blue Lady's war would work.

In the end though, IMHO, what's needed is that epic feel of being balanced along the razors edge, and darkness just a step away from winning....something for the heroes to oppose.

Anything less then that, and it's just another forgotten realms with Kender instead of halflings.
While I'm not sure its the best way to do things, having an old Tas go back to just after the Blue Lady's War and having two Tas's running around, doing the Spock thing would be amusing.

All around helpful simian

While I'm not sure its the best way to do things, having an old Tas go back to just after the Blue Lady's War and having two Tas's running around, doing the Spock thing would be amusing.



I'm not sure it is either.  I generally hate retcons, and constantly crusade against against them in the FR forums.  Lore is lore and generally shouldn't be thrown out.  In the realms, I think the changes they made were stupid, but they didn't significantly change the feel of things, at least for me.

Fro dragonlance, the changes to the lore completely gutted the "feel" for me.  For me, what I loved most about Krynn, is that it was perched on a razor's edge...much like Tolkein's middle earth.  If evil wins, it's over for the good guys, so failure simply isn't an option.  The established lore has left team evil with...no team.  The Goodguys are kinda...no team.  There's no threat left to provide that sense of "win or go home"

To me,  (now) Krynn is just a place with a bunch of history, and not much of anything else.  It's mundane, much like Forgotten Realms, Mystara or Greyhawk, but without the support.  I can't really see any way to return that feel without some kind of retcon or reboot.
While I'm not sure its the best way to do things, having an old Tas go back to just after the Blue Lady's War and having two Tas's running around, doing the Spock thing would be amusing.



I'm not sure it is either.  I generally hate retcons, and constantly crusade against against them in the FR forums.  Lore is lore and generally shouldn't be thrown out.  In the realms, I think the changes they made were stupid, but they didn't significantly change the feel of things, at least for me.

Fro dragonlance, the changes to the lore completely gutted the "feel" for me.  For me, what I loved most about Krynn, is that it was perched on a razor's edge...much like Tolkein's middle earth.  If evil wins, it's over for the good guys, so failure simply isn't an option.  The established lore has left team evil with...no team.  The Goodguys are kinda...no team.  There's no threat left to provide that sense of "win or go home"

To me,  (now) Krynn is just a place with a bunch of history, and not much of anything else.  It's mundane, much like Forgotten Realms, Mystara or Greyhawk, but without the support.  I can't really see any way to return that feel without some kind of retcon or reboot.




Raistlin Majere.


I would hope that those two words are enough, but I'll elaborate just in case.

Raistlin. Mother. Fracking. Majere.

Still not clear enough? Fair enough.

So, Raistling comes back.

Shut up, it's better than some kind of cosmically based retcon, a reboot, and it can feature Tas as well, because it's awesome when Tas and Raistlin are in the same adventure.

In the end, events after the Solamnia Takhisis...ists standoff are erased, the gods are back, and now Raistlin might or might not be one of them. Win.

Or, Raistling brings back the gods in full glory without any erasing of events. 
Skeptical_Clown wrote:
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
104340961 wrote:
Pine trees didn't unanimously decide one day that leaves were gauche.
http://community.wizards.com/doctorbadwolf/blog/2012/01/10/how_we_can_help_make_dndnext_awesome
Chris Perkins is completely wrong. There are many stories worth telling in Dragon Lance. The key is involving the different gods and their aspects as Margaret Weiss did quite well in the first two Mina books.  Have the gods elaborate on their goals and motivations without having them be the constant lapdogs to Paladine or Takhisis. Cults of Morgion and Hiddukel could prove interesting and canny antagonists for PC's.  I mean Forgotten Realms keeps digging up Bane as their big baddie but allows a few others such as Lloth or Bhaal to creep into the scene from time to time. Yes, the War of the Lance is a pivotal plot but there are main drops of water in the ocean which gives the ocean its strength. Dragon Lance needs to look more at regional conflicts and break things down a bit away from the grand picture.
Chris Perkins is completely wrong. There are many stories worth telling in Dragon Lance. The key is involving the different gods and their aspects as Margaret Weiss did quite well in the first two Mina books.  Have the gods elaborate on their goals and motivations without having them be the constant lapdogs to Paladine or Takhisis. Cults of Morgion and Hiddukel could prove interesting and canny antagonists for PC's.  I mean Forgotten Realms keeps digging up Bane as their big baddie but allows a few others such as Lloth or Bhaal to creep into the scene from time to time. Yes, the War of the Lance is a pivotal plot but there are main drops of water in the ocean which gives the ocean its strength. Dragon Lance needs to look more at regional conflicts and break things down a bit away from the grand picture.



This is exactly what Dragonlance needs to /not/ do.  That turns it into generic fantasy realm #356.  FR is just that.  What's the difference between Solamnia vs Ugorth and Cormyr vs Netheril, or Thay vs the Zhents?  There is no difference.  If you take that approach, you're destroyed everything that sets it apart from the other worlds, and just have a deep history:  Just like Forgotten Realms.

DL needs to have that big picture to really set it apart from the other published worlds.  Killing off Takhisis and stripping Paladine of godhood was a /terrible/ idea.  It worked for books, but it doesn't work for the game world. 
I agree that killing off the two major Gods was a bad idea.  I disagree that Dragon Lance must only be about the drama between Paladine and Takhisis. Krynn should have as much diversity to it as any other world , real or imagined.  Cultures should be varied and different. There would be no Thay equivalent in Dragon Lance since the wizards all hold to a common theme. Now if you have a 3E/4E mentality and allow sorcerers and warlocks and such then a nation such as Thay may be possible in an alternative magic theory such as a group of arcane or primal casters banding together fror protection and influence away from the Towers of High Sorcery. Margaret Weiss gave me alot of inspiration in the first two Dark Disciple books by making the Gods left standing in the world seem more believeable with their own goals and conflicts. It is kind of funny that the evil gods are trying to prevent a new Tahkhisis from emerging from their ranks by thawrting each others designs. They seem more eager to keep the balance than the various good or neutral aligned deities. More focus in this way than just straight monolithic evil would be a breath of fresh air for the setting.
 
I disagree with you.  Just because DL has nothing put thay, petty international squabbling is just...boring.  What was exciting about Dragonlance is that it was always balanced on the razors edge.  It made things scary, but at the same time thrilling.

With a more limited scope such as you suggest, it's like, eh, if Solamnia falls, I'll just move to Qualinost.

The history is just that...flavor.  It doesn't create the feel of good vs evil, win or die.
I call Shenanigans on Mr. Perkins whole editorial.


You can say, stating an opinion something like: "Later novels never topped Chronicles or Legends for drama or 'epic-ness" or that the "War of the Lance was my favorite".  That's fair.  What you can't do is say a campaign setting only has 1 storyline.  That's ignorant.  It has whatever storyline the DM and players make up.    What Chris said was generalizing, reductive, argumentative and judgemental.   


I'm glad on the blog portion that some of the DL 3/3.5 writers that worked for Margaret Weis called him on it. 


  
Also, Perkins did not, in fact, say that there's only one story worth telling in DL. He said that other stories tend to pale in comparison to the "Oh hey, the whole fate of the world in the balance" story, and baldly recognized that what he was saying was nothing more than personal opinion. That's what "feel free to disagree" means, folks.


Stop overreacting.
Skeptical_Clown wrote:
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
104340961 wrote:
Pine trees didn't unanimously decide one day that leaves were gauche.
http://community.wizards.com/doctorbadwolf/blog/2012/01/10/how_we_can_help_make_dndnext_awesome
This problem of a single great story isn't singular to Dragonlance. One member of our local group became obsessed with Drizzt, and wanted to try to relieve those adventures. I forgive the Drizzt fandom, but not wanting to make the entire party follow adventures that he already knows. I then had a random portal open up in front of them and dropped them in Solamnia. During the Battle of the High Clerist Tower and had them suddenly roaming Krynn instead of Faerun. I thought it quite funny when they decided to escort a group of 'halflings' through bandit-infested lands and one of them managed to find the most curious cloak that one of the PCs was wearing. Honestly, I'm not sure how he managed it, but the silly human must have dropped it! Good thing that kind halfling/kender found it for him!
I wish I could find my post somewhere on these forums about how I think the DL setting should be done in a new edition.

Basically, events move forward, a new War is brewing, new Dragon Highlords have risen, serving their dark goddess like before, Paladine walks the world somewhere, but who knows where, and...start campaign here. Basically, set it up in a full circle sort of thing, rather than retcons or the like, and the sort of "main story" of the setting, should you choose to use it, is to fight the forces of evil, restore Paladine to his rightful place, and in general set things right. The PCs are like the heroes of the lance, right in those first few pages of the Chronicles.

Skeptical_Clown wrote:
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
104340961 wrote:
Pine trees didn't unanimously decide one day that leaves were gauche.
http://community.wizards.com/doctorbadwolf/blog/2012/01/10/how_we_can_help_make_dndnext_awesome
I wish I could find my post somewhere on these forums about how I think the DL setting should be done in a new edition.

Basically, events move forward, a new War is brewing, new Dragon Highlords have risen, serving their dark goddess like before, Paladine walks the world somewhere, but who knows where, and...start campaign here. Basically, set it up in a full circle sort of thing, rather than retcons or the like, and the sort of "main story" of the setting, should you choose to use it, is to fight the forces of evil, restore Paladine to his rightful place, and in general set things right. The PCs are like the heroes of the lance, right in those first few pages of the Chronicles.




Perfectly logical for an entire Dragonlance campaign, just start anew. Depending on your time lapse from other Krynnish events, you could even reference some of the other Dragonlance novels out there: Solamnia is once again a great empire, for example (Rise of Solamnia series, first one is within 5 years of the War of Souls.)
Sure.  The coming war could even have rumours of involvement of that other continent, where the Minotaurs live, but not make it clear which side they're on, or if they are coming as opportunists, or whathaveyou. The Knights could be recently weakened by some event, but still a real power. Some could wonder if, with Palidine having given up godhood, the Solamnians can stay the course and live up to their history, while others have faith, etc.

Seems like an awesome place to play some Dragonlance DnD.
Skeptical_Clown wrote:
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
104340961 wrote:
Pine trees didn't unanimously decide one day that leaves were gauche.
http://community.wizards.com/doctorbadwolf/blog/2012/01/10/how_we_can_help_make_dndnext_awesome
If you don't mind, I'm probably going to loot this idea right about...

Sidenote: It would actually be reasonably easy to bring some of the other 4e races into this campaign. Dragonborn are draconians (cheap, but still workable, maybe evolved to get their breath weapon), tieflings could be from the other continent, with their own empire (focused to evil, the oppisite of Solamnia.1) Change the halfling racial power to something kender-ish (the flavor text could be "I think you dropped it!") 

Still need to figure out the Warforged (MASTER RACE!) and where they would fit. Maybe the Wizards of High Sorcery have been tinkering with constructs, branch of artificers among the moon-worshippers.

...NOW!


1) The whole "The world must be balanced!" thing kicking in. Good starts to gain power in Ansalon, evil gets power on the other one. What is that continent even named anyhow? Not sure there is anything about it beyond references... 
Awesome stuff.


Someone get Weiss and Hickman in a room with Mearls and throw all this stuff at them!
Skeptical_Clown wrote:
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
104340961 wrote:
Pine trees didn't unanimously decide one day that leaves were gauche.
http://community.wizards.com/doctorbadwolf/blog/2012/01/10/how_we_can_help_make_dndnext_awesome
I do not play D&D, never had a group to get it going, I have tried the online version but I do not know as much about D&D. I do however own over 50 dragonlance novels, and I feel I can say I'm experienced there. To say their is only one Epic story is not true. I personally find the Chronicles to be ok compared to several other trilogies I've read, and that is the one that gets amazing reviews and is always talked about. Point is if the books have anything to do with how the D&D setting goes then it should never ever be said that their is only one or two stories in Dragonlance worth telling. I can think of 3 off the top of my head that would make incredible movies, so how could that not be a good D&D setting? The way I understand it, you would have even more freedom in the world of Krynn.

However if you are playing in the 5th age... good luck.. no magic means boring reading so while I loved a lot of the new characters, I have stopped reading most of them. Perhaps magic has come back since I left, but thats why I read. I love the sorcery. But if you are restricted by "age" then 5th age could not be very fun and then I understand why you may say there is only one story to tell... unless you are allowed to be a dragon...

To me the "older pre-companions" dragonlance novels are the best written, best story lines and best characters. If you can't find a great story line/ campaign setting from these then you are just not trying very hard. If it's the setting after all the BS where the entire world of Krynn became magic-less and boring then I agree.. boring stories=bad RP.


 
PS I have no idea if any of this applies to the D&D setting, I just enjoy the novels and thought I'd throw my 2 cents in.  
I do not play D&D, never had a group to get it going, I have tried the online version but I do not know as much about D&D. I do however own over 50 dragonlance novels, and I feel I can say I'm experienced there. To say their is only one Epic story is not true. I personally find the Chronicles to be ok compared to several other trilogies I've read, and that is the one that gets amazing reviews and is always talked about. Point is if the books have anything to do with how the D&D setting goes then it should never ever be said that their is only one or two stories in Dragonlance worth telling. I can think of 3 off the top of my head that would make incredible movies, so how could that not be a good D&D setting? The way I understand it, you would have even more freedom in the world of Krynn.

However if you are playing in the 5th age... good luck.. no magic means boring reading so while I loved a lot of the new characters, I have stopped reading most of them. Perhaps magic has come back since I left, but thats why I read. I love the sorcery. But if you are restricted by "age" then 5th age could not be very fun and then I understand why you may say there is only one story to tell... unless you are allowed to be a dragon...

To me the "older pre-companions" dragonlance novels are the best written, best story lines and best characters. If you can't find a great story line/ campaign setting from these then you are just not trying very hard. If it's the setting after all the BS where the entire world of Krynn became magic-less and boring then I agree.. boring stories=bad RP.


 
PS I have no idea if any of this applies to the D&D setting, I just enjoy the novels and thought I'd throw my 2 cents in.  



Not sure where you stopped reading, maybe with the departure of the gods at the end of the Chaos War?

***SPOILER***
Since then, another war has been fought, the War of Souls. This (ultimately) ended in the return of *most* of the gods, bringing back magic, arcane and divine. There have been several series set in the time after the War of Souls, and each one I know of heavily involves magic. The Age of Mortals, still called that as the mortals now control the power of the gods, is a much more exciting time than before, and the best part is there is little defined history to it. Solamnia rises as an empire, the elves and the minotaurs battle for Silvanesti, Dark Knights have settled Qualinesti, another god appears (I don't know how this one ends, haven't gotten book 3 of that trilogy yet) and a few monstrous kingdoms arise. Ansalon has become a far more interesting place, in my opinion, thanks to the work of several authors, including Weis.

***END SPOILER***
 
I do not play D&D, never had a group to get it going, I have tried the online version but I do not know as much about D&D. I do however own over 50 dragonlance novels, and I feel I can say I'm experienced there. To say their is only one Epic story is not true. I personally find the Chronicles to be ok compared to several other trilogies I've read, and that is the one that gets amazing reviews and is always talked about. Point is if the books have anything to do with how the D&D setting goes then it should never ever be said that their is only one or two stories in Dragonlance worth telling. I can think of 3 off the top of my head that would make incredible movies, so how could that not be a good D&D setting? The way I understand it, you would have even more freedom in the world of Krynn.

However if you are playing in the 5th age... good luck.. no magic means boring reading so while I loved a lot of the new characters, I have stopped reading most of them. Perhaps magic has come back since I left, but thats why I read. I love the sorcery. But if you are restricted by "age" then 5th age could not be very fun and then I understand why you may say there is only one story to tell... unless you are allowed to be a dragon...

To me the "older pre-companions" dragonlance novels are the best written, best story lines and best characters. If you can't find a great story line/ campaign setting from these then you are just not trying very hard. If it's the setting after all the BS where the entire world of Krynn became magic-less and boring then I agree.. boring stories=bad RP.


 
PS I have no idea if any of this applies to the D&D setting, I just enjoy the novels and thought I'd throw my 2 cents in.  



Not sure where you stopped reading, maybe with the departure of the gods at the end of the Chaos War?

***SPOILER***
Since then, another war has been fought, the War of Souls. This (ultimately) ended in the return of *most* of the gods, bringing back magic, arcane and divine. There have been several series set in the time after the War of Souls, and each one I know of heavily involves magic. The Age of Mortals, still called that as the mortals now control the power of the gods, is a much more exciting time than before, and the best part is there is little defined history to it. Solamnia rises as an empire, the elves and the minotaurs battle for Silvanesti, Dark Knights have settled Qualinesti, another god appears (I don't know how this one ends, haven't gotten book 3 of that trilogy yet) and a few monstrous kingdoms arise. Ansalon has become a far more interesting place, in my opinion, thanks to the work of several authors, including Weis.

***END SPOILER***
 

I actually have a few of the newer books, I just really don't enjoy the non magic era. The Wizards Conclave I believe is an age of mortals book, it was good. But it still isn't as good as The Ergoth Trilogy.

***SPOILER***

The main character in that story, Tol, has an Irda Nullstone and so he is constantly being attacked by wizards/sorcerers who have no idea why he doesn't die. The main sorcerer Mandes is constantly throwing spells that are more powerful and unlike anything since. In the time line it is set way before the "chronicles", Pre-cataclysm, it's very close to the forging of the Ergothian Empire. This story isn't focused on a mage, Tol is actually a warrior, but it has a lot of magic in it. Most of these stories I read now have very little magic, and it's weak in comparison. I've yet to read any other book where the mage summons a wind storm, then an ice storm, uses voodoo dolls, summons golems, etc all as standard procedure. The legends books, while very good, have very little in the way of actual magical fighting. It's usually Raistlin casting 1 spell that almost kills him, then he teleports somewhere else and spends weeks recovering. Don't get me wrong I don't want to see mages running around with unlimited power, and I suppose the circumstances of this trilogy allowed for powerful magic casters, an Anti-Magic stone can do that, but through-out the entire trilogy Tol is running into powerful mages unlike any others I've read about. I do not mean to summerize a story you may not have read but the point is what happened to the magic! It's constantly getting weaker and weaker. 

 I have the first Mina book also, I found it to be good but I never followed up with it.  The chaos war was a big turn off for me, and then Mina showed up who was not someone I wanted to read about. I read the 5th age books, then the Dhamon trilogy. The loss of magic turned me off but Dhamon was a great story in my opinion. Jean Rabe got a lot of crap for it but Dhamon was a great character. I love the constant struggle he has with his morality. And who wouldn't want to become a dragon? But that final Dhamon book made me realize how much I missed by not reading Mina.. I assume. Large chunks of story were missing for me. So for that reason alone I am a bit intrigued. 

 I guess I just happened to pick up a few medicore books that turned me off for awhile. I had a few "Crossroads" novels that were just.. terrible. Then while dragons of a summer flame was good but magic was gone.. and then the mina book finished it for me.

Any specific suggestions for new books to read? I have been told the Minotaur trilogy is good but I havn't looked into it.
I read 3.5 DragonLance material and I have no idea what's going on.  It may be a very good setting, but it's a very good setting sold under the DragonLance name and that's kind of a dealbreaker, because I don't see the elements of DragonLance that I used to love in the setting.

I say that for Next they publish a setting book that covers pre-war to war. 
I read 3.5 DragonLance material and I have no idea what's going on.  It may be a very good setting, but it's a very good setting sold under the DragonLance name and that's kind of a dealbreaker, because I don't see the elements of DragonLance that I used to love in the setting.

I say that for Next they publish a setting book that covers pre-war to war. 



Why cover the same stuff in a world that's moved on since then?

Better to bring the setting full circle as I described above, and make it feel like it did back in the day, but without NPC heroes already slated to save the day. Basically, make it feel like the PCs are in the place of the heroes from the books.
Skeptical_Clown wrote:
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
104340961 wrote:
Pine trees didn't unanimously decide one day that leaves were gauche.
http://community.wizards.com/doctorbadwolf/blog/2012/01/10/how_we_can_help_make_dndnext_awesome
I wish I could find my post somewhere on these forums about how I think the DL setting should be done in a new edition.

Basically, events move forward, a new War is brewing, new Dragon Highlords have risen, serving their dark goddess like before, Paladine walks the world somewhere, but who knows where, and...start campaign here. Basically, set it up in a full circle sort of thing, rather than retcons or the like, and the sort of "main story" of the setting, should you choose to use it, is to fight the forces of evil, restore Paladine to his rightful place, and in general set things right. The PCs are like the heroes of the lance, right in those first few pages of the Chronicles.





This is just about the perfect idea.  That epic win or die feel of DL is what always really set it apart for me. 

It's much like LotR.  Think about this quote from Theoden: "So, it is before the walls of Minas Tirith, the doom of our time will be decided."  That could easily be replaced with " So, it is before the walls of High Clerist's tower, the doom of our time will be decided." and feel like it belongs.

It's the kind of feel that my other favorite setting, Forgotten Realms can never have.  I'd /love/ to play in dragonlance again with that epic feeling.

I wish I could find my post somewhere on these forums about how I think the DL setting should be done in a new edition.

Basically, events move forward, a new War is brewing, new Dragon Highlords have risen, serving their dark goddess like before, Paladine walks the world somewhere, but who knows where, and...start campaign here. Basically, set it up in a full circle sort of thing, rather than retcons or the like, and the sort of "main story" of the setting, should you choose to use it, is to fight the forces of evil, restore Paladine to his rightful place, and in general set things right. The PCs are like the heroes of the lance, right in those first few pages of the Chronicles.





This is just about the perfect idea.  That epic win or die feel of DL is what always really set it apart for me. 

It's much like LotR.  Think about this quote from Theoden: "So, it is before the walls of Minas Tirith, the doom of our time will be decided."  That could easily be replaced with " So, it is before the walls of High Clerist's tower, the doom of our time will be decided." and feel like it belongs.

It's the kind of feel that my other favorite setting, Forgotten Realms can never have.  I'd /love/ to play in dragonlance again with that epic feeling.




Thank you. I really think it's what needs to happen.
Skeptical_Clown wrote:
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
104340961 wrote:
Pine trees didn't unanimously decide one day that leaves were gauche.
http://community.wizards.com/doctorbadwolf/blog/2012/01/10/how_we_can_help_make_dndnext_awesome
I wish I could find my post somewhere on these forums about how I think the DL setting should be done in a new edition.

Basically, events move forward, a new War is brewing, new Dragon Highlords have risen, serving their dark goddess like before, Paladine walks the world somewhere, but who knows where, and...start campaign here. Basically, set it up in a full circle sort of thing, rather than retcons or the like, and the sort of "main story" of the setting, should you choose to use it, is to fight the forces of evil, restore Paladine to his rightful place, and in general set things right. The PCs are like the heroes of the lance, right in those first few pages of the Chronicles.





This is just about the perfect idea.  That epic win or die feel of DL is what always really set it apart for me. 

It's much like LotR.  Think about this quote from Theoden: "So, it is before the walls of Minas Tirith, the doom of our time will be decided."  That could easily be replaced with " So, it is before the walls of High Clerist's tower, the doom of our time will be decided." and feel like it belongs.

It's the kind of feel that my other favorite setting, Forgotten Realms can never have.  I'd /love/ to play in dragonlance again with that epic feeling.




Thank you. I really think it's what needs to happen.



In reading this thread through, I also agree that your idea to kick the ball forward a few generations would be one of the best ways to fix Krynn and get things moving for a 5e Dragonlance return. The Chronicles were the books that really hooked me hard into the game back in the day, and I have found the lack of DL to be sad, even though the 5th-age and SAGA rules from the mid 90s really left a foul taste on my palette. I really need to get back into the swing of what has happened since then, to be honest.

Just roll some dice.

 

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Agreed. :D


I'm really glad that others like this idea. Maybe we should make a new thread directly concerning this idea, in the hopes they'll see and understand?
Skeptical_Clown wrote:
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
104340961 wrote:
Pine trees didn't unanimously decide one day that leaves were gauche.
http://community.wizards.com/doctorbadwolf/blog/2012/01/10/how_we_can_help_make_dndnext_awesome
I would certainly support it.  Bring back an epic setting!
Hey Chris Perkins, I think personally that you are wrong. Iv'e been playing Dragonlance for years and have never grown bored of it. I also want you to know I don't even know who you are. Hickman- check, Weis- yep. Chris Perkins-? What's that name got to do with me or my hobby? absolutely nothing. Everybody has an opinion and everybody has something else too. (-o-)
Saying DL has only one story to tell is like saying that the Anakin-Darth Vader Arc is the only good story in the Star Wars universe, and there are plenty of books and games that disprove that. DL is how I got into D&D. How I got into fantasy, really. I won't ever forget seeing that copy of Dragons of the Dwarven Depths in a grocery store in town. I picked up and adventure that drew me in like no other. I cried when Flint died. It was heartbreaking.
The thing is, who cares about that, just because there's been one epic story in the past doesn't mean you can't have another.

You could say just the same about the Crown Wars in Forgotten Realms or the wars with Morgoth in Middle-Earth.

What's in the past is the past. Its the novelists' and DM's job to setup a scenario where another grand story can be told.


I think they can easily skip a few generations a setup DragonLance for another Epic tale. If they can present it in such as way that previous material really feels like just the past and setup a rich new set of 'evil plots' brewing (as they did with Neverwinter.. minus the giant volcano), then DragonLance can easily become a great setting.


I think it's already been said, but the Chaos War's Aftereffects (i.e. Fifth Age) really hurt Dragonlance more than anything I ever really saw.  I have friend who all of us together had read every novel leading up to DoSF multiple times, but the Fifth Age series really stuck in my throat, as well as theirs.  Since then, I always HomeBrewed any Dragonlance campaigns that we did, which were few.

Love the Classic 'Lance Stories though!