3 equal options in character creation

So a while back there were some articles with race powers, and more recently we have been given sub races which I love. So I got to thinking about what Id like to see in 5e and I would love to see a system in which not all choices are based on class, where I don't have to spend ever feat I have just to feel like my race, and where I can explore my theme not just once in a while through utilities.

So what do you think of a system where when it comes to picking a new feat power or even starting features you can pick out of 3 equal pots, of race class and theme. Where if you really like the Elves or shifters or Tieflings you can chose to focus on that, and if you like your theme and class combo you can make them sing together.

When a lvl 30 Half Elf Noble Fighter has over the course of his career been given 1500 options to pick from and 1450 of them were fighter options and only 50 of them were the combination of Half Elf and Noble themed I feel like we are missing out on some great opertunities of RP and character divercity.

what do you think?
In the Nentir Vale, all injured creatures are required to wear a name tag!
I love this idea.

Always been something kinda missing form D&D - there were always a few racial feats, but never enough imo. THe theme ability ideas as well is genius and really makes me hope that the three pillars of your character will all have interesting advances to take, making the amount of customisation so brilliantly varied.

(actually this reminds me of an MMO (sorry for uttering that phrase on a D&D forum - please forgive me) coming out in the next couple of years - Wildstar. Wildstar has races (only 3 atm), classes (esper (psionic), warrior (i think) and rogue) and then paths like explorer, scientist, settler, soldier. The paths offer different game experiences to each other, just as the classes do, it's a great idea both for D&D and for the MMO genre too. For those of you into MMO's it's worth following, I think it's going to be a biggie).
When they came out with Dark Sun I started to see "thematic powers" and I was hoping they would have more racial powers.  Elves and Dwarves should have abilities that they would know even if they're a fighter or wizard.  A Dwarf Wizard may still be deadly with an Axe and never have to multi-class.  He's deadly with an Axe (has an At-Will Melee power) because he's a Dwarf and was trained.  The Racial Paragon Classes were a great step but it would have been better served with Power Substitution rather than a dedicated class.
When my character hits level 15, I want him to be a Level 15 Dwarf Fighter Knight. Not a Level 15 Fighter who also happens to be a Dwarf and a Knight. In other words, if I have a character concept at level 1, I don't want the game telling me I have to leave 2/3 of it behind as I level.
I love that other feel the same way... I like the idea that 2 characters can go to the same war college and get all the same fighter training but because one of them is a 7 foot Goliath, and the other is a 4 foot Halfling having the same fighter attacks can never make them look like the same person, more so as one of them is an ordained priest and the other has past as a street urchin.
In the Nentir Vale, all injured creatures are required to wear a name tag!
I love that other feel the same way... I like the idea that 2 characters can go to the same war college and get all the same fighter training but because one of them is a 7 foot Goliath, and the other is a 4 foot Halfling having the same fighter attacks can never make them look like the same person, more so as one of them is an ordained priest and the other has past as a street urchin.

Must be tough being a Goliath street urchin
So Race, Class, and theme would be broken down like this?

Race


  • Subrace


    • ie. Underground Dwarf, City Dwarf, High Elf, Wood Elf, Farmer Halfling, City Halfling...



Class


  • Subclasses


    • ie. Unarmed Fighter, Long Range Fighter, Elemental Wizarde, Illusionist Wizard, Thief Rogue, Smoothtalker Rogue...



Theme 


  • Job


    • ie. Guild Wizard, Bounty Hunter, Gladiator, Minstrel, Hunter...


  • Parentage


    • ie. Noble, Slave, Royalty, Trading House...


  • Schooling


    • ie. Mage Academy, Monastery, Temple...


  • Others


    • ie. Wilder(Dark Sun), Favored Soul, Wild Mage, Deal with the Devil...


Ant Farm
So Race, Class, and theme would be broken down like this?

Race


  • Subrace


    • ie. Underground Dwarf, City Dwarf, High Elf, Wood Elf, Farmer Halfling, City Halfling...



Class


  • Subclasses


    • ie. Unarmed Fighter, Long Range Fighter, Elemental Wizarde, Illusionist Wizard, Thief Rogue, Smoothtalker Rogue...



Theme 


  • Job


    • ie. Guild Wizard, Bounty Hunter, Gladiator, Minstrel, Hunter...


  • Parentage


    • ie. Noble, Slave, Royalty, Trading House...


  • Schooling


    • ie. Mage Academy, Monastery, Temple...


  • Others


    • ie. Wilder(Dark Sun), Favored Soul, Wild Mage, Deal with the Devil...



You need to fix your indent levels, it's a little confusing. But, yeah, I could see it that way. I think themes need to not only hook into your past, but show a way forward. So Commoner wouldn't be a great theme, but Hero of the People would.
So Race, Class, and theme would be broken down like this?

Race


  • Subrace


    • ie. Underground Dwarf, City Dwarf, High Elf, Wood Elf, Farmer Halfling, City Halfling...



Class


  • Subclasses


    • ie. Unarmed Fighter, Long Range Fighter, Elemental Wizarde, Illusionist Wizard, Thief Rogue, Smoothtalker Rogue...



Theme 


  • Job


    • ie. Guild Wizard, Bounty Hunter, Gladiator, Minstrel, Hunter...


  • Parentage


    • ie. Noble, Slave, Royalty, Trading House...


  • Schooling


    • ie. Mage Academy, Monastery, Temple...


  • Others


    • ie. Wilder(Dark Sun), Favored Soul, Wild Mage, Deal with the Devil...





That is more or less what we have now. What I was speaking of was having the Race and Theme options come up more then once durring character creation. So for instance class is Class-Subclass-Build-PowerPowerPowerPowerPowerPower Ect... that goes on for some pages until paragon which are mostly class related although they did start to work on that, while Race goes something like this Race-(very very few)Subrace, and theme is worse with Theme.
There are no real choices after creation for most.
So I would like to hit lvl 4 and pick a power or a feat that focuses on where I want to focus, which may not be on class, but may be on that fact that I am clarvoiant which is my theme, and you may want to focus on training your fey beast or on being a Purple Dragon, or just focus on your Eladrin Education.
I mean if you are a 120 year old Eladrin with Eladrin Education I would think there would be more then one small benifit attached to it, more so if your backround had you in univercity for the last 30 years, so give up that ranger power and take some more Eladin Education things!

That is my dream.
Its not about more options. Its about making them count and making 2 monks look different. Aside from having the same class my co workers and I are hardly the same, but in DnD Same Job=Same Person 80% of the time.
In the Nentir Vale, all injured creatures are required to wear a name tag!
Meh ... race isn't a big deal.  It's binary ... you either are a dwarf, or you aren't.  You can't get 'more dwarfy'.

'Same job=Same person' is kind of nonsensical.  Well, really nonsensical.  Are you honestly saying that two people are unlikely to RP their characters differently just because of mechanical similarities?  Or even just the same class title, which is meaningless?  Preposterous.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
You can get more dwarfy salla. You can take racial dwarf feats or dwarf race poweres. No obviously I'm not more canadian by playing hockey and more then a tiefling is more tieflung by taking a feat to use his tail. But in a game represented by stats and abilities having something different then someone else dies make you more something then some one else.
Otherwuse salla none of us would use rules orca system at all. Obviously.  
In the Nentir Vale, all injured creatures are required to wear a name tag!
You can get more dwarfy salla. You can take racial dwarf feats or dwarf race poweres.

The only thing that should make you more dwarfy is playing to stereotypes. Salla's right. You either are, or you aren't. There really isn't an inbetween on races. Jim is not more 'dwarfy' than I am 'elfy' because he took the Dwarven Defender Path and that Stoneskin utility power, while I made myself an Elven Ranger with no racial powers or paths. If Jim plays his dwarf like he's a human, and I play my Elf like I'm an elf, then doesn't that make me more elfy? Does it really matter? You can make race important, but it's still a switch with several settings, each being a different race.
Otherwuse salla none of us would use rules orca system at all. Obviously.  

This isn't an argument. I also assume it's not a whale either, but I digress. You can use this for literally any nitpick. "Well, if my attack bonus isn't higher than yours then we might as well not use rules at all!"
"Well, if you get more daily powers than me, we might as well not use a system at all!"
"You can just solve everything with all your magic, why do we need rules at all?!"
"If you ban elves because you don't like them, why do we have player's handbooks at all?!"

See? Works on everything. Not an argument.

Obviously.  



You keep using that word.  I don't think it means what you think it means.

Because that made no sense whatsoever.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.

Why confine yourself to what someone else’s idea of an "Unarmed Fighter, Elemental Wizard, Illusionist Wizard, Thief Rogue, Smoothtalker Rogue" is. No matter how many different classes, sub classes, jobs, or themes they put out, they cannot ever be exactly what you imagined it to be. Players should be demanding the ultimate freedom in character creation.

Imagine a monk that can sit on a swirling globe of air, fly with the aid of a kite, has an animal companion named Momo and a flying bison mount named Appa. Can D&D of any edition using all their prestige classes, themes, jobs create this in any way that is actually viable? You'd have to cross class into Druid for the animal companions before even thinking about being a monk because monks that gain a level in another class cannot gain levels as a monk anymore. Control Winds? Well that’s a 5th level Druid spell (they get access to that at level 9) and I guess I could sit on Tenser's Floating Disk with a swirling ball of wind under it and move around on that. So I'm looking at a level 9 druid or cleric of the air domain before I can start taking levels in Monk. This isn't even a very awesome character to play with but it's really hard to build. On top of it all, it's not even a realistic build in D&D given the cross classes, restrictions, and requirements.

Join the Open Class System revolution!

We have this now. Between class powers, racial utilities and paragon paths, skill powers and theme powers. The only thing seperating them are their locations in the source material. You can still pick and choose accordingly at X level. The only way to make that different is to allow you to pick multiple options each from a different source, and that just unbalances.

We don't need more power selections to feel more "Dwarfy" or "Elfy". We need better racial features, and more of them that we can select from in order to make race less based in bloodline than in culture and individuality. Not every Dwarf is going to give a flying floo about training with Hammers if he's not ever going to wade in melee once in his career, so why not give him an option out of the gate that supports that approach, be it training with ranged weapons or speciality with certain long distance spells? Wizard's sort of learned this lesson in 4e with alternate racial features, but quantified them less openly than they should have. Plus the fact that only a few of them were worth speaking of.

Personally, I'd like to see options among racial features to support classes, and options among class features to support races. This might better help to marry your race with your class and make you less a Dwarf who is a Fighter, or a Fighter who is a Dwarf, but instead makes you a Dwarven Fighter.
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