01/31/2011 SF: "Two Cards To Bring Them All (And In Fairness Bind Them)"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Serious Fun, which goes live Tuesday morning on magicthegathering.com.

If I'm not mistaken, Grafdigger's Cage doesn't effect Living Death. Living Death reanimated cards enter in from the exile zone, not the graveyard.
You're not mistaken.
Grafdigger's Cage doesn't affect Living Death in any way.
Yep. I grabbed the wrong card as an example. I somehow had it in my head that the creatures in play were exiled, graveyard dumped into play, and exiled creatures put into the graveyard.

Dawn of the Dead would be a better example here. 
Adam Styborski Writer for Serious Fun Follow me on Twitter: twitter.com/the_stybs
Colfenor's Plans in a Linvala, Keeper of Silence commander deck? "Color" me confused.
Colfenor's Plans in a Linvala, Keeper of Silence commander deck? "Color" me confused.



Reads Colfenor's Plans.
Check deck to find Colfenor's Urn.
Facepalms.
Adam Styborski Writer for Serious Fun Follow me on Twitter: twitter.com/the_stybs
Yep. I grabbed the wrong card as an example. I somehow had it in my head that the creatures in play were exiled, graveyard dumped into play, and exiled creatures put into the graveyard.

Dawn of the Dead would be a better example here. 

...grafdigger's cage doesn't stop Tooth and Nail either. Those cards enter the battlefield from your hand.
Also, it doesn't effect Tooth and Nail. Tooth and Nail doesn't put them directly onto the battlefield from the library when entwined, it first searches for two creatures and puts them into your hand, then puts two creatures FROM YOUR HAND into play. For example, say i have Triskelion in hand. I cast Tooth and Nail entwined. I first search for Mephidross Vampire and Sundering Titan, then put Triskelion and Mephidross vampire onto the battlefield. 
In short, Grafdigger's Cage does nothing to Tooth and Nail. It is a very easy mistake to make, however, as who ever casts Tooth and Nail NOT entwined? It might as well be 7GG "Seach your library for 2 Creature Cards and put them into play". 
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57070368 wrote:
58280208 wrote:
Even metallix is gone now.
I'm right here.
Anyway... I don't see any fun in the rules that forbid tutoring overall, or play stuff from graveyard. I specifically like EDH because it's an art of building an efficient 99-card toolbox - a seemingly random deck you actually can tame and control.
I just don't get where's the fun in playing all random cards. I could play with a pile of commons and it would be almost the same thing.
I agree, it's an article about casual play, but I'd love to see some actually good (read: competitive) EDH ideas once in a while.

As for casual formats...
MOAR MULTIPLAYER DRAFT VARIANTS! :D

/bpy6
As much as houseruled bannings like these (and they are bannings, make no mistake) are supposed to make everything more fun, I've never yet found one that actually seems to do that. And this is no exception.

Sure, it's not generally fun seeing my opponents take forever to search their deck or do any of the other things Stranglehold Cage would make impossible. But it's way, way less fun being unable to effectively participate in the game because my deck has decided to hand me all of the most useless cards it contains for the current situation. So for me, tutoring effects are a major net positive; eliminating them will make my gaming experience significantly less fun.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

So....the best bargain fixers (a la Terramorphic Expanse) get worse while the most expensive (Duals/Shocks) are still good.

Tutors get screwed which makes card draw better (BLUE WINS).

Graveyards get screwed (Black loses) and extra turns too (Blue loses).

Artifact mana becomes even more important (all decks, but we know Blue is about the artifacts).

Library searching is banned...so Jester Caps don't work (Black loses).

This seems bad.

I get what you're trying to do, honestly, I even agree with some it...but all this does is further bend the color pie to the favor of specific colors rather than to more of them IMO.

I play Commander, I even enjoy it sometimes...but it is not a "good" format for many reasons and from many perspectives.

This may be an interesting experiment but nothing more.  Give me some rules that make the other colors, especially Red, as good as Blue and maybe I'll bother.
So....the best bargain fixers (a la Terramorphic Expanse) get worse while the most expensive (Duals/Shocks) are still good.

It's not like there aren't expensive fetches or budget duals.

I get what you're trying to do, honestly, I even agree with some it...but all this does is further bend the color pie to the favor of specific colors rather than to more of them IMO.

You mean it favours red and white? The "worst colours" of EDH by popular opinion? That doesn't sound too bad.


Not that I'm sold on this house rule anyway (and it would be quite an ordeal to get it accepted in my local group even if I was). That's why I'd like to see next week's deck built using the harshest restrictions, as an experiment. This week's deck is mono-white, a colour which isn't affected all that much by the change. I want to know what you end up with when you tell a black/green/white deck not to play reanimation, tutors or fetches.
Yep. I grabbed the wrong card as an example. I somehow had it in my head that the creatures in play were exiled, graveyard dumped into play, and exiled creatures put into the graveyard.

Dawn of the Dead would be a better example here. 

...grafdigger's cage doesn't stop Tooth and Nail either. Those cards enter the battlefield from your hand.


But Stranglehold does. No searching your library.... (you coudl still use it unentwined to drop two fatties, but that is not the reason why its played so much).

And Colfenor's Plans were in the Decklist as well...
Editor, to the rescue!

Green gets bitten a bit as well, with all teh Landfetching going on.
[c]Forest[/c] gives you Forest
You're not mistaken.
Grafdigger's Cage doesn't affect Living Death in any way.


This was discussed at length in the comments to the preview article for the card, where it was demonstrated that LD exiles the cards from the graveyard, then puts them onto the battlefield from exile. Grafdigger's Cage has as much effect on Living Death as it does Jhoira of the Ghitu, Praetor's Grasp, the new Liege of the Shadows, etc., and all for the same reasons.
"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count." "Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969) "Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)
Tooth and Nail is an example of a card stopped by Grafdigger's Cage, rather than Tooth and Nail (though, interestingly, Tooth and Nail's dump two dudes from hand is still sweet in when Stranglehold is in efect).
Adam Styborski Writer for Serious Fun Follow me on Twitter: twitter.com/the_stybs
Tooth and Nail is an example of a card stopped by Grafdigger's Cage, rather than Tooth and Nail (though, interestingly, Tooth and Nail's dump two dudes from hand is still sweet in when Stranglehold is in efect).


You must mean one other card there for the first card mentioned, otherwise that sentences makes no sense. However, T&N is not inherently harmed by Cage or Hold, only the search function is harmed by Hold. T&N, like Living Death and such, skirt the restrictions.
"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count." "Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969) "Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)
I had to read this article three times before realizing the author is establishing new game types, not changing any of the existing rules. 
Oh, I see. Printing Grafdigger's Cage is a way to force us to enjoy the product we buy from you in the way you want us to enjoy it. Like we just couldn't set table rules like those printed on this card any time we sit down for a game of Commander. Making more and more sense as the explainations roll in. Keep it coming! :/
Tooth and Nail is an example of a card stopped by Grafdigger's Cage, rather than Tooth and Nail (though, interestingly, Tooth and Nail's dump two dudes from hand is still sweet in when Stranglehold is in efect).


You must mean one other card there for the first card mentioned, otherwise that sentences makes no sense. However, T&N is not inherently harmed by Cage or Hold, only the search function is harmed by Hold. T&N, like Living Death and such, skirt the restrictions.


Defense of the Heart is the correct example I sent in (now showing as fixed in the article). Thanks again for everyone who contributed to correcting the examples!
Adam Styborski Writer for Serious Fun Follow me on Twitter: twitter.com/the_stybs
I'm super pumped to see the Ghave deck! I've been working to put together my first Commander deck based around Saprolings, other tokens, and +1/+1 counters.
This version of commader would break Maralen of the Mornsong in a heartbeat. I know my general.
Grafdigger's Cage doesn't stop Living Death nor does it stop Tooth and Nail.

Rules Advisor

Please autocard: [c]Shard Phoenix[/c] = Shard Phoenix.

Colfenor's Plans in a Linvala, Keeper of Silence commander deck? "Color" me confused.



Reads Colfenor's Plans.
Check deck to find Colfenor's Urn.
Facepalms.



Really? I swear that Colfenor's Plans was there before. Must have been a fixed mistake.
Known as Blitzer on most forums. Despite the username, I am male. Both sex AND gender.
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