## DPR King Candidates 3.0

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Bohrdumb
Joined Mar 2010
1995 Posts
So I'm rumaging around with a character that will go live tonight. Lvl 11 Dwarf Seeker|Assassin\Rogue. Calc'ing out the damage comes to roughly 120 over 3 rounds (I suck at math so I'll be rounding for my own purposes) so does that give me a KP3R of 1? What health am I using? The standard lvl 11 npc seems to have around 110 hp but I've seen a number with significantly more.

Math and I aren't friends so I'm trying to keep it as simple for my feeble brain as I can. Here's a breakdown of what I think I'm doing
Show

Round One: RBA (all my attacks are RBAs but if I go only at-wills I think I lost a total of 1d8+1d6 damage)
1d8 weapon + 2d8 Assassin + 2d8 Venomhand Assassin + 9 + 2 (Light Blade Exp) + 6 (Draw First Blood) = 39.5 + 3d6 Sneak Attack (CA via Superior Reflexes) + 3d10 Assassin Strike = 39.5 + 10.5 + 16.5 = 66.5

I'm +20 to hit Ref normally, so with CA I should pretty much only have a 5% chance to miss.
66.5 (.9) + 66.5(.05) = 59.85+3.325=63.175

Then my two attacks after than (assuming I can hit different targets) are 1d8 weapon + 2d8 Assassin + 9 + 6
29.5(.9) + 29.5(.05) = 26.55+1.475 = 28.025 (2 rounds) 56.05
Total is 119.225 over 3 rounds.

Edit: So if I read things right, I should be looking to do 8*lvl+24 in one round to get a basic KPR of 1. Since I do an avg of 39.667 damage a round, and I need to hit 112 for a kill, I get a KPR of .354?

So not stellar, but I'm not a primary striker so I'm pretty okay with these numbers.
Illeist
Joined Sep 2010
256 Posts

1) How are crits generating extra attacks? In this build you have a harmony blade, and not a rending weapon.

2)

Reckless Attacker

Paragon Tier
Prerequisite: 11th level, fighter
Benefit: The first time you score a critical hit with a fighter attack power on your turn, you can make a melee basic attack as a free action. If you do so, you take a –2 penalty to AC until the end of your next turn.

ONLY on first crit.

3) Mighty Crusader Expertise, where is it, I can not find in the compendium.

4) Isn't there some rule about getting only 1 free attack per turn limit?

There are actually multiple problems here. Perhaps the most troublesome is that Twofold Flinch is a Ranger power, not a Fighter power. So, even though the build can only make one free action attack per turn and can only attack off the first crit, those are non-issues.

Also, Mighty Crusader Expertise is a feat in Dragon 402 ("Tools of Two Trades").

ThatWasTotallyNinja
Joined Jan 2011
1187 Posts
Few questions.

...

1) Harmony Blade also gives you a No Action attack on a crit, just like Rending.

2) Reckless Attacker is just being used for a single extra MBA per turn.

3) Like Illeist said, it's in D402.

4) Yes, but Harmony Blade is a No Action.

There are actually multiple problems here. Perhaps the most troublesome is that Twofold Flinch is a Ranger power, not a Fighter power. So, even though the build can only make one free action attack per turn and can only attack off the first crit, those are non-issues.

Also, Mighty Crusader Expertise is a feat in Dragon 402 ("Tools of Two Trades").

The recursive crits come via Harmony Blade. The single Reckless Attacker MBA that I use per round is triggered by a crit with Opportunist's Rend that presumably will happen at least once per round.
ThatWasTotallyNinja
Joined Jan 2011
1187 Posts
@borg: The truly massive sources of potential damage are the things that boost damage non-linearly. Examples: Rending Tempest, Punishing Radiance, recursive criticals (Rending/Harmony Blade), stacking zones.

Not a single one of those things has a cheese tag associated with it. They really probably should. Maybe even just something like "NLD" for "nonlinear damage" so you can cover all of them at once.

Oddly enough, I'd say calling for a 'minimum distance' isn't quite right, not the way you're proposing it at least. In a real combat, most of the time you'll have two or more enemies in your grill if you're melee, and probably three to four targets in range if you're ranged. I think it's fair to assume you'll have at least one other enemy in melee range, but afterwards things become doubtful. How about this?

A) If melee, you have two enemies in range at start, adjacent.
B) If ranged, you have four enemies in range, two adjacent to each other, the other two separate from the first two and also nonadjacent with each other.
C) If necessary after dispatching Enemy 2/4, either assume an average of 5 squares distance OR assume a target is within 1d10/1d12 range (where 1 is adjacency). I believe the latter is truer to how a combat goes, but the former is more reliable.

I see what you're saying. That's a bit more complicated to account for though.

Also, if the damage cap is 2 kills worth, for example, then that roughly translates to either 1 elite or 2 standards that are both in range. Which is one reason I think the cap should be at 2 kills or 4 kills, not just 1...it can somewhat simulate one powerful enemy or a cluster of weaker ones.

There's plenty of reasons that this is not an accurate simulation, but it's simple. And it's more accurate than what we do now.
mellored
Joined Jul 2008
26545 Posts
can we use diseases?

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

monkeygentleman
Joined Feb 2011
1391 Posts
I'd like to submit Tas for consideration on the DPR Kings. We might need to implement the NLD tag just for this build - it has a non-zero chance of killing everything on the planet in one turn. With a knife.
 57029358 wrote:... congratulations, Monkeygentleman.You won the unwinnable. 68773941 wrote:monkeygentleman, you are the worst thing to happen to the CharOp forums since Mearls took over WotC.
borg285
Joined Jan 2008
3020 Posts
Finding those exponentially growing combos is one of the goals of optimization.  I don't feel we should throw them into the same basket.  They won't nerf each at the same time.  I am leaning to having the following tags
ZA: Zone abuse (if it doesn't exist already)
NoA: Abuses no action attacks

I will close the poll tonight, update my first and fifth post, add in the tags and tag builds accordingly, add in the new candidates, then invent bread 2.0.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
borg285
Joined Jan 2008
3020 Posts
Edited first and 5th post.  WIll do the following candidates tomorrow sometime

Half-Elf, Monk, Unseen Hand
Illeist
Total KP5R: 6.0738

KP5R per Target:
First Target: 3.0738
((73.77*5)/120)
Second, Third, and Fourth Targets: 1.2679
((30.43*5)/120)
.

Level 16 Genasi Fighter/Assassin/Pit Fighter
Rancid_Rogue
2.67KP5R

Spike, Lvl 1 Human Rogue|Warlock
GDRiddler
DPR (Assuming CH, CA) = 24.825
.775 KPR

Pragm4
The Lazy Blender
L6

Dragonborn, Warlock/Fighter, Ninefold Master, Arcane Sword
Lathaen-V
L30
0.782

And I'll update the rules based on the extreemly few votes.

DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
ThatWasTotallyNinja
Joined Jan 2011
1187 Posts
While you're editing stuff... the DV-RBA tag is only on two builds, neither of them very high-ranking. It feels out-of-place to me on the list, it's not nearly as general as the rest are.
banysan2
Joined Aug 2011
17 Posts
LVL12 = 1/2ELF - Thief - Bard - Daring Blade                    -   by Banysan2

Lvl 12 - Half-Elf - Thief, Bard Multclass - Daring Blade (All martial power's attacks and damage atributes are changed to CHA)
-Minor action and Move action, used to apply a Frozen Whetstone on both weapons.
-Assuming frost vulnerability from the start.

Theme/BG/Atributes
Show

Theme - Fey Beast Tamer: Young Owlbear
Background Gritty Sargeant - Weapon Proficience ( Rapier ).

Starting Atributes - STR 10, CON 13, DEX 14, INT 8, WIS 10, CHA 20.     (assing lvl 4 and 8, DEX and CHA)
Lvl 12 Atributes -    STR 11, CON 14, DEX 17, INT 9, WIS 11, CHA 23.

Relevant Power's: Ambush Trick (CA aways), Twin Strike

Feats
Show

Backstaber
Bardic Dilletante
Two Weapon Fighting
Lasting Frost [retraning lvl11]
Versatile Master
Icy Heart
*Swift Blade Style - add DEX bonus to Dam, if both  twin strike attacks Hit. This description is Add to the Twin power card description, allowing to change DEX for CHA.

Itens
Show

Subtle Rapier +3, Siberys Shard of Merciless Cold (Paragon Tier), Gloves of Ice, Subtle Short Sword +2, Siberys Shard of Merciless Cold (Heroic Tier), Quickhit Bracer (Heroic Tier), Frozen Whetstones.

Hit -
Show

+23 Main Hand  [+6 Cha, +3 Enc, +1 Twt, +6 1/2lvl, +2 lbw, +2 CA, +3 Prof] = 90% Accuracy
+22 offHand      [+6 Cha, +2 Enc, +1 Twt, +6 1/2lvl, +2 lbw, +2 CA, +3 Prof] = 85%

Damage:
Show

+3(MH) or +2(OH) Enchatament
+2 Gloves
+3(MH) or +1(OH) Shard
+3 Weapon Fienesse
+1 Two Weapon Fight
+3 Icy Heart
+3 (MH) + 2(OH) Subtle
+2 Young Owlbear: Ferocious Companion Aura
+2 Whetstone
+5 Lasting Frost
+6 + 1d6 IF BOTH HIT Swift Blade Style + Bracer
1d8 + 29 (MH)[33.5] / 1d6 + 25 (OH) [28.5] -  1d6+6 if both Hit - 3d8 if at least one hit

DPR
Show

Mh - 85% Normal Hit, 5% Critical, 10% miss
Oh - 80% Normal Hit, 5% Critical, 15% miss
Chance to hit Both = 76,5% (for swift blade maths)
Chance to hit at least one = 98,5%    Chance to at least one critical = 9.75%   At least one normal Hit = 88.75% (for sneak maths)

MH + OH normal Hit = (0,85*33.5+0.8*28.5) = 51.275 DPR
MH + OH critical hit = (0.05*47.5 + 0.05*41.5) = 4.45 DPR
Sneak = (0.8875*13,5+0.0975*24) = 14.321 DPR
Both Hit = (0.765*9.5) = 7.2675 DPR

Total DPR = 77.3135 ~  77.31 DPR

KPR1 =
(77.3135/120) = 0.644
ThatWasTotallyNinja
Joined Jan 2011
1187 Posts
Nice. Everything checks out to me.

KPR = 0.622. You can probably increase that with a theme, if you're so inclined.
Illeist
Joined Sep 2010
256 Posts
Good build! The only little thing worth mentioning is that Subtle Weapons and the Iron Armbands are both item bonuses; they don't stack.

The next step is to convert your KPR into DPR. Here's Borg's sig:
KPR = Kills Per Round.  1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage
= DPR/(8*level+24)

In this case, you're looking at 120 hit point enemies. Once you've calculated your KP1R, KP5R, and KP10R, enter your build into the Google Doc and plug in the numbers. Good luck!
ThatWasTotallyNinja
Joined Jan 2011
1187 Posts
Good catch.

In that case, Banysan, I might recommend Quickhit Bracers instead of Iron Armbands.
banysan2
Joined Aug 2011
17 Posts
Thank you guys. I changed the Iron Armbands for the Quickhit Bracer (as u recommend) and add a Fey Beast Tammer with a Young Owlbear to give me back the +2 damage bonus.

How you guys calculate the KPR5 and 10?

tyvm.
ThatWasTotallyNinja
Joined Jan 2011
1187 Posts
If you're doing the exact same thing every single round (which it looks like you are, as far as damage calcs are concerned) then with the current rules your Mean KPR is just whatever your normal round KPR is. You don't need to break it down any more (KP2R would just be 2*KPR, KP5R is 5*KPR, etc).

We've been discussing having a rule about moving between kills, but that's not currently in place.
banysan2
Joined Aug 2011
17 Posts
Ok. It's done with Google Docs. Now is evererything ok???

Any recommends???   tyvm
ThatWasTotallyNinja
Joined Jan 2011
1187 Posts
The CA tag is only for builds that just assume they always have CA, with no actual way of creating it. Your CA comes from Ambush Trick or Fey Beast Tamer, so you don't need that tag.

The Solo tag is when you assume that no other creatures are around (for example, for Cunning Stalker). As far as I can tell, you don't need this one either? Maybe I missed something.

On the other hand, you should add the Fey tag since you're using Fey Beast Tamer.
banysan2
Joined Aug 2011
17 Posts
OK, i'll do it now.

Done!

=D   thanks
ortheos
Joined May 2011
189 Posts

The Arrogant Huntsman uses Draconic Vengeance in combination with the Lone Wolf's level 16 paragon Path feature to dribble an enemy down the court like a soccer ball. It packs a punch with KPR equalling out to 0.552 and significantly more when bloodied (the battlecrazed property and dragonborn racial accuracy bonus upping the KPR to 0.6667). Additionally, the conditions for the damage and accuracy boosts are all very easily met. You effortlessly crank up +28 to attack rolls due to combat advantage from frost cheese, another +2 from the lone wolf paragon path and another +1 due to Prime Shot/Prime Punisher. When bloodied, it goes up to +29. Not exactly many questionable conditions here, if you're near your enemy you can whack em.

Additionally, the character manages to do this while maintaining a great daily Nova, adding up to 655.77 expected damage - a flurry which will kick the opponent 10 squares down the field, knock them prone so you can dribble them like a soccer ball and weaken them as well. Plus, Dice of Auspicious Fortune give you a reroll in there. Also, if you take "The Fading One - Lighter than Wind" as your boon instead, you can drop one melee basic from the daily nova in exchange for a bump to your non-bloodied DPR. Personally though, I like the utility of the current boon, as it makes the nova more explosive as well as offering a chance at healing.

I could pump these numbers up higher by sacrificing any semblance of defense for purely theoretical character op (grabbing paragon tier Siberys shards instead of armor/amulet etc. would jump me by +4 DPR for example). But I like that the character, while fragile, could probably hold his own in a real group with a decent defender (he has perpetual concealment due to his armor). If you drop a few offensive features for some slightly more defensive ones (two weapon fighting/defense, trade the boon for Davros Elden's Defensive Step) - this guy could easily fit in at nearly any gaming table while still packing awesome offensive power.

And, he's a soccer-playing dragonborn. What's not to love about that?

The Arrogant Huntsman
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Arrogant Hunstman DPR, level 16
Dragonborn, Ranger, Lone Wolf
Fighting Style Option: Two-Blade Fighting Style
Ranger Option: Prime Shot
Dragonborn Racial Power Option: Dragon Breath
Dragon Breath Key Ability: Dragon Breath Strength
Dragon Breath Damage Type: Dragon Breath Cold
Auspicious Birth (Auspicious Birth Benefit)
Theme: Mercenary

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 24, CON 11, DEX 14, INT 11, WIS 16, CHA 11

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 18, CON 10, DEX 11, INT 10, WIS 14, CHA 8

AC: 26 Fort: 29 Ref: 24 Will: 24
HP: 121 Surges: 6 Surge Value: 30

TRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +14, Athletics +19, Dungeoneering +16, Intimidate +17, Perception +16, Stealth +14

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +8, Bluff +8, Diplomacy +8, Endurance +7, Heal +11, History +10, Insight +11, Nature +11, Religion +8, Streetwise +10, Thievery +9

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Mercenary Attack: Takedown Strike
Dragonborn Racial Power: Dragon Breath
Hunter's Quarry Power: Hunter's Quarry
Ranger Attack 1: Twin Strike
Ranger Attack 1: Shield of Blades
Fighter Utility 2: Battle Fury Stance
Ranger Attack 3: Ruffling Sting
Ranger Attack 5: Frenzied Skirmish
Ranger Utility 6: Death Threat
Ranger Attack 7: Lashing Leaves
Ranger Attack 9: Attacks on the Run
Ranger Utility 10: Resume the Hunt
Lone Wolf Attack 11: Single Combat Assault
Lone Wolf Utility 12: Escape the Trap
Ranger Attack 13: Off-Hand Diversion
Ranger Utility 16: Ranger's Parry

FEATS
Toughness
Level 1: Weapon Proficiency (Bastard sword)
Level 2: Wintertouched
Level 4: Cyclone Warrior
Level 8: Silvery Glow
Level 10: Acolyte Power
Level 11: Lasting Frost
Level 12: Prime Punisher
Level 14: Draconic Arrogance
Level 16: Called Shot

ITEMS
Frozen Whetstone (heroic tier)
Gloves of Ice (paragon tier) x1
Hide Armor of Dark Deeds +3 x1
Battlecrazed Bastard sword +3 x2
Ruby Scabbard
Dice of Auspicious Fortune
Iron Armbands of Power (paragon tier) x1
Casque of Tactics (heroic tier) x1
Blood Fury Scimitar +1
Torc of Power Preservation +3 x1
Backlash Tattoo x1
Siberys Shard of Merciless Cold (heroic tier)
Gruumsh's Bloodthirsty Wrath (level 3)
====== End ======
ThatWasTotallyNinja
Joined Jan 2011
1187 Posts
@borg: I updated my builds to account for the new rarity changes (the Dancing Weapon build was the only one that required big changes). Might wanna skim through to see if any other builds were nerfed by this.

Since I seem to be the only person using the spreadsheet for calculations (I have 3 sheets there now), I went ahead and hid all of them. Now to see one of my sheets, you have to go through View -> Hidden Sheets. I think it reduces clutter, and should probably be copied by anyone else that uses the sheet for calcs... agree/disagree?

Also, copying from Excel into a Google sheet isn't totally straightforward. So maybe a note in one of the front page posts would help?

Basically, if you just copy-paste from Excel, you'll end up only copying values and no one will be able to see the formulas you're using. So what you do is push Ctrl+~ (in Excel 2007; don't know about other versions) so that it actually shows the formulas in each cell, not the values. Now copy it, and when you paste into the Google Doc it should all be correct (also: make sure you paste it into the same cell numbers as they were in the original sheet).
borg285
Joined Jan 2008
3020 Posts
Sorry for my laziness.  I've been swamped with work, being oncall and all.  I agree with all you've said and I will make the notes in my first post in an sblock in a tips and tricks section for builders.  Either tonight or tomorrow night I will, circumstances providing, update this thread.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
dennerick
Joined Jun 2011
2 Posts

Hi,
Here is my candidate to lvl 16 DPR King.
Any criticism is appreciated and Im asking for any tips on how to increasing the dpr even more.
Thanks!

Some assumptions:
- Spark is surrounded by 3 tofu monsters
- Spark used Blistering flourish last turn
- Spark used the whetstone las turn
- Spark is mounted or his lizzard and side by side with Kookoo, his owlbear

Show

Spark Lafir
LVL16 = Revenant/Tiefling - Monk/Malec-Keth Janissary - by Me and Banysan2

Theme - Fey Beast Tamer: Young Owlbear

FINAL ABILITY SCORES

STR 9, CON 12, DEX 22, INT 14, WIS 11, CHA 22

STARTING ABILITY SCORES

STR 8, CON 11, DEX 16, INT 13, WIS 10, CHA 16

Relevant Powers: Blistering Flourish, Desert Wind Flurry of Blows

FEATS
= Superior Implement Training (Incendiary dagger), Slashing Kama Style
, Hellfire Blood
, Icy Clutch of Stygia, Implement Expertise (Light blade),
, Lasting Frost

ITENS =
Ki Incendiary dagger +3 x1
Ki Sickle +1 x1
Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier) x1
Lancing Gloves x1
Inix, Frost Whetstonex1

Hit - +24 vs ref
Show

+6 dex
+8 lvl
+3 Enh
+1 Superior Implement
+2 CA
+1 Fiery Blood
+2 Feat bonus expertise

Blistering Flourish Damage - 1d8 + 1d4 + 36 fire and cold
Show

+1d4 cold Malec-Keth
+5 cold vulnerability*
+6 dex
+6 cha*
+3 enh
+3 Incendiary Dagger
+1 Hellfire blood
+3 Icy heart
+2 Iron Armbands
+2 Lancing Gloves
+2 Owlbear
+2 Wheatstone
+1 dragonshard
* if last attack was succesful

Flurry of Blows - first target Ongoing Damage: 1d4 + 33 fire and cold

Show

+1d4 cold Malec-Keth
+5 cold vulnerability
+2 Flurry
+2 Lancing Gloves
+4 2x ki Weapon
+6 cha
+6 cha (blistering)
+3 Icy Heart*
+1 Hellfire Blood*
+2 Iron Armbands*
+2 Owlbear*
* Im guessing that the 1d4 from Malec-Keth is added to the power description. This make flurry a power with the fire, cold and melee keywords with a damage roll. Using this the bonus for damage rolls are added to the flurry damage.
Im a correct to assume that? You guys can point me any rules source about that?

If target pass on Saving throw damage: 20 fire and cold
Show

5 cold Icy Clutch
+5 cha
+5 cha (blistering)
+5 cold vulnerability

2 other targets Damage = 1d4 + 28 fire and cold

Precision = 85% Crit =5% Miss = 15%

Blistering dpr = 4.5 + 2.5 + 36 = 43*0.85 = 36.55
Blistering critical = 8 + 4 + 36 + 3d6 * 0.05 = 2.9
Blistering total = 39.45
Flurry dpr = 3(2.5) + 89 = 96.5 x 0.85 = 82.025
DPR for ongoing target passing save = 20*0.55 = 11
Total DPR = 132.475
KPR = 0.86

I dont kow how to express matematically the ongoing damage and the scenarios that spawn from it. 2 or 3 targets taking ongoing, 2 targets with vulnerabilty, 3 targets with ongoing and passing the saving etc.
Banysan2 helped me with this, making a combat simulation and get these numbers:
DPR: 145.96 Precision: 92.43 TotalMiss: 7.57 Crit: 5.00
Max Damage: 246 Numbers of Rounds: 92362653 Most frequent damage: 130(2.07)
"KPR":0.96

Thanks  for reading all of this and Id really like to know what you guys think and if it really work.

Illeist
Joined Sep 2010
256 Posts
*That massive post*

Great work! It's good to see another Monk disrupting the status quo. But there are a few things that don't quite work. A power doesn't have a damage roll unless it's stated in the power; extra damage is just extra damage, whether it's dice or straight numbers. Also, a failed saving throw in not quite a melee attack, so Blistering Flourish doesn't apply.

I'm not quite sure how to quantify the ongoing, but I believe there should be at least one build out there that uses it as well; someone should have a method.

As far as improvements to be made, you'll see a greater return if, instead of Iron Armbands, you pick up a set of Ki Wrist Razors. And, though I'm not sure what dragonshard you're using, you should be able to afford a level 13 version.

EDIT: Also, [ sblock ] is your friend.
EDIT PART 2: SON OF EDIT: This post by borg outlines how FoB gets nerfed for DPR King. Sad Monks are sad.
Cuddlez
Joined Jun 2010
21 Posts
Hi, I'm kind of new here, first time posting but been using the charop forum as a guide for building characters.
I'd like to post a candidate for the dpr king 3 but am not sure what the rules are. My character's already built, but I have a few questions as to what is allowed before I post him.

1) My character is level 30, do I get 2 lvl 30 items, 1 lvl 29 item, and gold worth a lvl 29 item? Or do I get to splurge on some credit card?
2) Do I start counting rounds when the encounter would should have begun or start counting after I cast all my set-up spells?
3) A follow up of question 1, will I be limited by the item rarity on what I can buy? If so am I allowed to just take the imbuer background and make rare and uncommon items (paying for the ritual costs ofc).
4) Are we allowed to use dailies? As in are we calculating dpr in a given encounter or dpr over the course of a day? What if I had ways of regaining dailies?
5) I've seen some references to LFR, so are themes allowed? Items from different campaign settings?

Just curious, sorry if I sound over eager.
ThatWasTotallyNinja
Joined Jan 2011
1187 Posts
1) Almost, but you get the gold value for all those things, and you can spend it however you like.

2) Rounds start the moment the encounter starts.

3) You can have up to 1 rare item per tier (so 3 at epic). Keep in mind the latest errata, a lot of cool stuff is rare now. In terms of having multiple uncommons, you aren't quite restricted, but if you have more than one item with the same enchantment the build will be tagged "noLFR." Also, the Imbuer background doesn't let you make uncommon or rare items...

4) It has to be encounter DPR. If you can find a way to use a daily in every encounter, that's fine, but we assume 5 encounters per day.

5) Themes are fine, different campaign settings are fine. Again, if it violates LFR rules, it'll be tagged with "noLFR."
dennerick
Joined Jun 2011
2 Posts
Hi Illeist,
Thanks for your feedback, this build is really inspired on your monk lvl 12, I mean, the lancing gloves and everything to boost FoB was really sharp!
And the sblock thing too.

*That massive post*

A power doesn't have a damage roll unless it's stated in the power; extra damage is just extra damage, whether it's dice or straight numbers.

Where can I found the rule about it? I looked in the compendium and did not find anything about it, just about extra damage on critical.
The thing is, even if the roll wasnt with the keyword melee (so no bonus from IAoP or Owlbear). Its still a Fire and Ice damage roll and Icy heart (You gain a +3 feat bonus to cold damage rolls) and hellfire blood both give me a bonus to that kind of damage roll, right?

Also, a failed saving throw in not quite a melee attack, so Blistering Flourish doesn't apply.

I believe that feats dont do damage per se. The Icy Cluth of Stigia improves The Slashing kama Ongoing damage so it work like an Aftereffect.
Blistering Flourish wording says "your melee attacks deals extra damage..." and the flurry of blows altered by slashing kama is still a melee attack.

Too bad Monks cant play this anymore, If its a rule
If you or anyone can point me this rule about extra damage that wll be really nice =)

Illeist
Joined Sep 2010
256 Posts
Hi Illeist,
Thanks for your feedback, this build is really inspired on your monk lvl 12, I mean, the lancing gloves and everything to boost FoB was really sharp!
And the sblock thing too.

Thanks kindly! I really enjoy Monks, and it's always good to see more discussion about them on the boards... By any means necessary. Including putting together DPR builds. ^^

*That massive post*

A power doesn't have a damage roll unless it's stated in the power; extra damage is just extra damage, whether it's dice or straight numbers.

Where can I found the rule about it? I looked in the compendium and did not find anything about it, just about extra damage on critical.
The thing is, even if the roll wasnt with the keyword melee (so no bonus from IAoP or Owlbear). Its still a Fire and Ice damage roll and Icy heart (You gain a +3 feat bonus to cold damage rolls) and hellfire blood both give me a bonus to that kind of damage roll, right?

The best explanation for this that I can give is that it's not a rules interpretation that DPR King uses. It's an ugly, ugly rules conundrum (see this thread) with no clear answer. Borg may decide to make an exception, but then we'll probably have nothing but Brutal Barrage-ing Battleminds from level 16 on.

EDIT: *Sigh* I just realized that ThatWasTotallyNinja's "A Thousand Cuts Build" was explicity approved with this assumption. So scratch all that. And bring on the stinkin' Battleminds...

Also, a failed saving throw in not quite a melee attack, so Blistering Flourish doesn't apply.

I believe that feats dont do damage per se. The Icy Cluth of Stigia improves The Slashing kama Ongoing damage so it work like an Aftereffect.
Blistering Flourish wording says "your melee attacks deals extra damage..." and the flurry of blows altered by slashing kama is still a melee attack.

Too bad Monks cant play this anymore, If its a rule
If you or anyone can point me this rule about extra damage that wll be really nice =)

Oh, the ongoing granted by Slashing Kama absolutely takes Blistering Flourish into consideration; it's just Flurry damage in a less math-friendly package. Sorry, what I was saying is that Icy Clutch of Stygia itself doesn't benefit from Blistering Flourish because ICoS isn't a melee attack.
borg285
Joined Jan 2008
3020 Posts
First time posting a build so let me know when I mess up.

Anyways, this is a Level 6 controller Nova build that throws out insane damage without even rolling to hit thanks to the oversight of Storm Pillar.

The Lazy Blender

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Lazy Blender, level 6
Genasi, Psion/Wizard
Discipline Focus (Hybrid) Option: Telekinesis Focus (Hybrid)
Psionic Augmentation (Hybrid) Option: Hybrid Encounter Power
Hybrid Talent Option: Expanded Discipline Focus
Elemental Manifestation Option: Voidsoul
Associate: Trained Young Owlbear
Luruar (Luruar Benefit)
Theme: Fey Beast Tamer

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 18, CON 11, DEX 10, INT 20, WIS 11, CHA 8

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 16, CON 11, DEX 10, INT 17, WIS 10, CHA 8

AC: 19 Fort: 18 Ref: 19 Will: 17
HP: 42 Surges: 6 Surge Value: 10

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +13, History +13, Religion +13

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +3, Athletics +7, Bluff +2, Diplomacy +2, Dungeoneering +3, Endurance +5, Heal +3, Insight +3, Intimidate +2, Nature +5, Perception +3, Stealth +3, Streetwise +2, Thievery +3

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Genasi Racial Power: Void Assumption
Psion Feature: Far Hand
Wizard Utility: Ghost Sound
Wizard Utility: Light
Wizard Utility: Mage Hand
Wizard Utility: Prestidigitation
Psion Feature: Forceful Push
Wizard Attack 1: Twilight Falls
Wizard Attack 1: Storm Pillar
Psion Attack 1: Living Missile
History Utility 2: Strategist's Epiphany
Psion Attack 3: Psychic Anomaly
Wizard Attack 5: Visions of Avarice
Wizard Utility 6: Glowering Wrath

FEATS
Hybrid Talent
Level 6: Elemental Empowerment

ITEMS
Shadowdance Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) +1 x1
Lucky Charm +1 x1
Magic Orb +2 x1
====== End ======

How it works

This build has 100% accuracy because it doesn't roll to hit.

Typical Encounter Nova turn:
Minor Action - Glowering Wrath
Move Action - Move Owlbear next to target enemy to blow up
Standard     - Storm Pillar

Wait until enemy's turn comes up, then use Forceful Push as a Free Action to slide it 4 squares (Controlling Advantage + Glowering Wrath) and trigger Storm Pillar 4x. If it is not dead, use Forceful Push a second time (Discipline Adept).

Damage Breakdown:
1d6 + 13 per storm pillar

5 Int mod
2 Enhancement
4 Element Empowerment
2 Owlbear aura

Damage Total:

(2 Forceful Pushes)
8d6 + 104 = 132

(1 Forceful Push)
4d6 + 52 = 66

For more fun, Action Point and throw in a Psychic Anomaly. Since Psychic Anomaly requires a hit, it can also be boosted to slide an insane number of squares.

This being an encounter nova please post it in the form of KP2R and show how much damage you do each round once the nova is over.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
borg285
Joined Jan 2008
3020 Posts
I've also added a ranking on cheese elements
0 is for non-cheesy tags like wintertouched + frost vuln. and other typical optimization techniques and other descriptive tags (noLFR, IRC)
1-2 is for things that are barely cheesy, if at all
3-4
5-6
7-8
9-10 is for the stinkiest of the stink.  TheoryOP and stuff that breaks the game goes here.

Please go to the Glossary and change the rankings if you so like.  The next time I update the thread the new ranking will get reflected in the colorings on the first page.

If you want the colorings to be reflected in the tags on the google doc page feel free to make some conditional formatting and duplicate it for all 6 columns in every level tab (1,6,12, 16, 24, 30).
I used 6 hidden columns on said pages to store the HTML that results in what color that tag gets rendered as.  If you feel a certian build deserves a big fat RED tag for its specific use of those tags feel free to unhide those columns, manualy enter in the HTML that would give it a red color and add a comment on the column saying that you did so and then rehide the columns.

DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
borg285
Joined Jan 2008
3020 Posts
Hi, I'm kind of new here, first time posting but been using the charop forum as a guide for building characters.
I'd like to post a candidate for the dpr king 3 but am not sure what the rules are. My character's already built, but I have a few questions as to what is allowed before I post him.

1) My character is level 30, do I get 2 lvl 30 items, 1 lvl 29 item, and gold worth a lvl 29 item? Or do I get to splurge on some credit card?
2) Do I start counting rounds when the encounter would should have begun or start counting after I cast all my set-up spells?
3) A follow up of question 1, will I be limited by the item rarity on what I can buy? If so am I allowed to just take the imbuer background and make rare and uncommon items (paying for the ritual costs ofc).
4) Are we allowed to use dailies? As in are we calculating dpr in a given encounter or dpr over the course of a day? What if I had ways of regaining dailies?
5) I've seen some references to LFR, so are themes allowed? Items from different campaign settings?

Just curious, sorry if I sound over eager.

1) I will reward you with the gold equivilant of a Level 31 item if you can calculate what it should be based on the progression of 1-30.  Thus you'll get L31, L30, L29 + gold of L29, liquidate all at 100% and go on a shopping spree.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
Cuddlez
Joined Jun 2010
21 Posts
This character was originally made for pure roleplay because I wanted a warlock with a pet succubus (but no, the warlock only has ambassader imp, really?). Then I stumbled across the Balor, and thus my Pimpin' Pete became the Headmaster of Hell (yes I know balors are demons, but papa Asmodeus won't let me play with devils after he found out what I did to Cubi).

The build
Show

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Eldritch Pact (Hybrid) Option: Infernal Pact (Hybrid)
Hybrid Warlock Option: Hybrid Warlock Reflex
Twofold Pact Option: Sorcerer-King Pact
Narfell (Narfell Benefit)
Theme: Infernal Prince

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 12, CON 28, DEX 13, INT 22, WIS 10, CHA 14

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 18, DEX 11, INT 14, WIS 8, CHA 10

AC: 44 Fort: 41 Ref: 40 Will: 33
HP: 155 Surges: 15 Surge Value: 38

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +28, Endurance +36, Religion +26

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +16, Athletics +16, Bluff +21, Diplomacy +19, Dungeoneering +15, Heal +15, History +21, Insight +15, Intimidate +17, Nature +15, Perception +15, Stealth +18, Streetwise +17, Thievery +16

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Infernal Prince Attack: Hellfire Heart
Wizard Utility: Light
Wizard Utility: Mage Hand
Wizard Utility: Suggestion
Warlock's Curse  Power: Warlock's Curse
Feat Utility: Warlock's Wrath
Warlock Attack 1: Hellish Rebuke
Wizard Attack 1: Magic Missile
Wizard Attack 1: Wizard's Fury
Warlock Attack 1: Hand of Blight
Arcana Utility 2: Arcane Mutterings
Warlock Utility 6: Life Siphon
Warlock Utility 10: Troublesome Aid of Caiphon
Academy Master Attack 11: Learned Boost
Academy Master Utility 12: Refined Recall
Warlock Attack 13: Killing Flames
Warlock Utility 16: Offering of Blood
Wizard Attack 17: Mass Charm
Academy Master Attack 20: Master's Surge
Wizard Utility 22: Wraithform
Warlock Attack 25: Word of the Sorcerer-King
Archmage Utility 26: Shape Magic
Warlock Attack 27: Hellfire Curse
Wizard Attack 29: Summon Balor

FEATS
Level 1: Superior Implement Training (Ashen rod)
Level 2: Hellfire Blood
Level 4: Rod Expertise
Level 6: Armor Proficiency: Leather
Level 8: Hellfire Arcanist
Level 10: Warlock's Wrath
Level 11: Twofold Pact
Level 12: Mindbite Scorn
Level 14: Devastating Critical
Level 16: Hybrid Talent
Level 20: Lasting Frost
Level 21: Blood Pact of Cania
Level 22: Cursed Spells
Level 24: Dual Implement Spellcaster
Level 26: White Lotus Enervation
Level 28: Arcane Mastery

ITEMS
Ashen rod of Ulban +6 x1
Boots of Caiphon x1
Ioun Stone of Vigor x1
Ring of Giants x1
Shadow Warlock Starleather Armor +6 x1
Ashen rod of the Star Spawn +6 x1
War Ring x1
Executioner's Bracers (epic tier) x1
Siberys Shard of Merciless Cold (epic tier)
Belt of the Witch King x1
Cloak of the Phoenix +5 x1
Elven Chain Shirt (paragon tier)
====== End ======

Assumptions for my DPR: Target is cursed. Hit with Hellish Rebuke last turn. Moved last turn for Shadow Walk. Balor is summoned.
224.45 DPR
Show

Hellish Rebuke (arcane admixture - cold)
Attack Bonus Breakdown:
+9 Constitution modifier
+6 enhancement bonus
+1 power bonus - Infernal Prince Starting feature
+1 Hellfire Blood bonus - Hellfire Blood
+3 Feat bonus - Rod Expertise
+1 Superior Implement bonus - Ashen Rod
+2 CA from shadow warlock armor
+1 bonus - arcane underpinning
-1 target reflex - white lotus enervation
39 attack vs 41 reflex = 90% accuracy (10%miss, 80%normal, 10%crit)
Damage Bonus Breakdown:
+9 Constitution modifier
+6 enhancement bonus
+6 off-hand enchancement bonus
+1 Hellfire Blood bonus - Hellfire Blood
+4 Feat bonus - Hellfire Arcanist
+5 bonus - Fundamental Mastery
+4 bonus - Blood Pact of Cania
+4 Superior Implement bonus - Ashen Rod
+5 item bonus - Ioun Stone of Vigor
+5 syberis shard of merciless cold
+15 fire and lightning balor symbiosis
+5 vulnerable cold
76 average triggered damage (no warlock's curse extra damage, no attack roll for crit)
+4d8+6 warlocks curse
+10 vulnerable pychic
117 average hellish rebuke with warlock's curse damage, 151+3d6+7d8+1d10+12 on crit

Magic Missile (arcane admixture II - cold)
17 damage (5+ INT mod +enhancement)
+5 siberys shard of merciless cold
+15 summon balor symbiosis
+5 vulnerable cold
42 magic missile damage

10% to do 42 damage = 4.2
80% to do 234 damage = 187.2
10% to do 330.5 damage = 33.05
mean DPR = 224.45
mean KPR = 224.45/264 = 0.85019

This is my first time doing dpr calculations and I kind of just browsed through other builds to figure out the equations used, so there might be some mistakes. Feel free to correct my math, or point out areas the damage could be further increased.
banysan2
Joined Aug 2011
17 Posts
Can i trade my lvl+1 item +gold (lvl 13 plus 8000gp) for a lvl 15 item (25000gp) ?
borg285
Joined Jan 2008
3020 Posts
Can i trade my lvl+1 item +gold (lvl 13 plus 8000gp) for a lvl 15 item (25000gp) ?

I'm thinking no, but that may just be the bias my last DM gave me.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
Armisael
Joined Sep 2007
11235 Posts
I've also added a ranking on cheese elements
0 is for non-cheesy tags like wintertouched + frost vuln. and other typical optimization techniques and other descriptive tags (noLFR, IRC)
1-2 is for things that are barely cheesy, if at all
3-4
5-6
7-8
9-10 is for the stinkiest of the stink.  TheoryOP and stuff that breaks the game goes here.

Please go to the Glossary and change the rankings if you so like.  The next time I update the thread the new ranking will get reflected in the colorings on the first page.

If you want the colorings to be reflected in the tags on the google doc page feel free to make some conditional formatting and duplicate it for all 6 columns in every level tab (1,6,12, 16, 24, 30).
I used 6 hidden columns on said pages to store the HTML that results in what color that tag gets rendered as.  If you feel a certian build deserves a big fat RED tag for its specific use of those tags feel free to unhide those columns, manualy enter in the HTML that would give it a red color and add a comment on the column saying that you did so and then rehide the columns.

Twin Strike should be Cheese 1 or 0. Just because it's strong doesn't mean it's cheesy, by itself, and certainly not that much cheesier than charging.

PS: On an unrelated note, would a character that dishes out damage through allies be a potential submission for a DPR King, assuming all the paperwork for the other characters is done? Just asking because it kind of surprises me that there's no Leader builds that top the DPR charts. Obviously, it'd need cheese tags if you're assuming a party of four Thieves or that everybody mysteriously gets in position for enabled attacks, but besides that and being a bunch of work on the buildmaker, I don't see any reasons why there are none.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
borg285
Joined Jan 2008
3020 Posts

Twin Strike should be Cheese 1 or 0. Just because it's strong doesn't mean it's cheesy, by itself, and certainly not that much cheesier than charging.

PS: On an unrelated note, would a character that dishes out damage through allies be a potential submission for a DPR King, assuming all the paperwork for the other characters is done? Just asking because it kind of surprises me that there's no Leader builds that top the DPR charts. Obviously, it'd need cheese tags if you're assuming a party of four Thieves or that everybody mysteriously gets in position for enabled attacks, but besides that and being a bunch of work on the buildmaker, I don't see any reasons why there are none.

Twin updated.

I wouldn't be opposed to a different thread where leaders compete in a buffing battle, but such a competetion is not conducive to this "I'm the only striker on the field, and I generate everything I need to kill the baddie."
The basic warlord's DPR is at least a function of the highest basic attack on the team.  He can boost that by quite a bit, but the fact that it is directly dependent on someone else makes it not conducive to thread.
I've always liked to calculate the DPR sensitivity when given an attack bonus of many builds.  A multi-attacker will benefit more from a boost than a single attack build, like a charger.  This multi-attacker would be a better candidate for a warlord.

DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
banysan2
Joined Aug 2011
17 Posts
Can i trade my lvl+1 item +gold (lvl 13 plus 8000gp) for a lvl 15 item (25000gp) ?

I'm thinking no, but that may just be the bias my last DM gave me.

One last question...

The Dragonborn +1 bonus to hit when blooded can be applied from the start? I assume the bonus is up half of the time (+2.5% to hit) ? or put the tag and apply the bonus?
ThatWasTotallyNinja
Joined Jan 2011
1187 Posts
@borg: Not a big deal, but as far as I could tell, normal users can't lock sheets on the spreadsheet. That makes some sense to me (what value does a lock have if everyone is able to do it and presumably undo it?). I don't particularly care for my sheets, but maybe edit that in the first post.

Is there going to be a nova section, or has that idea been dropped? Not trying to rush you or anything like that; just curious since there isn't a placeholder for it.
borg285
Joined Jan 2008
3020 Posts
I hadn't gotten around to a DAILY nova section yet.  I do intend to put one in there.  Both me and the submitters haven't had much activity on that front.

Banysan2: That is what the tag is for.  EIther assume bloodied and apply tag, or assume you don't have it and don't have tag then know that you'll simply be more accurate sometimes.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
ThatWasTotallyNinja
Joined Jan 2011
1187 Posts
I hadn't gotten around to a DAILY nova section yet.  I do intend to put one in there.  Both me and the submitters haven't had much activity on that front.

Are you saying there won't be an encounter nova section? So...where does this go?
borg285
Joined Jan 2008
3020 Posts
I hadn't gotten around to a DAILY nova section yet.  I do intend to put one in there.  Both me and the submitters haven't had much activity on that front.

Are you saying there won't be an encounter nova section? So...where does this go?

KP2R
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?