Adult themes, tone, and images in 5e

In this thread… community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...


I was attempting to use humor to open the door to a discussion about adult themes, art, and target audience marketing, though I do certainly understand WotC Trevor’s reluctance to continue the thread. On this one, lets try and keep it above the waist line.


The basic rules box set was marketed towards youth, while AD&D was clearly marketed towards the adult likely male audience.


With alignments and evil characters potentially returning to D&D, does that mean the door is also open to stop targeting children as the main audience and start returning adult themes and artwork to the core franchise once again?


Is sexual objectification of both sexes and graphic violence acceptable to gamers now days as sex and violence do sell books, or is D&D now under Hasbro required to be a family friendly and politically correct product line?


Though I don’t think it’s at all likely, in all honesty I would like to see D&D return to being a politically incorrect semi-subversive hobby for adults featuring adult themes and tones for the core franchise rather than the “lets save the villager’s puppy!” themes and tones that to me seem currently being pushed.


On the slider between the brutally violent, sexual, demonic, and undead themed AD&D level of adult content (1) or the lets add D&D to family game night (10) scale… where do you think the tone of the 5e D&D core tone should sit and why?

"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." Gygax
"Adult" like Palace of the Silver Princess, or "adult" like topless Harpies, or "adult" like Book of Erotic Fantasy?
I'm going to say no, for two reasons, a lot of people play with kids, and teens, also putting things in like gender based violence is not being un-pc it is being a jerk.  Finally my second reason if you want that stuff you can add it in.  It is always easier to add something than to take it out.
"Adult" like Palace of the Silver Princess, or "adult" like topless Harpies, or "adult" like Book of Erotic Fantasy?



This actaully made me think of something else, all the evidence of stuff I have seen considered "adult" in D&D definitly isn't.  This goes back for years.
At its core it should be as family friendly as possible, players can and should be able to set the adult themes for themselves.

If WotC wanted to put to market some adult 18+ content on the side, go for it - though it should probably be just fluff (or how to use existing material in an adult fasion) so no one feels they need to get it or are missing out.

32 years old with a variety of players at my table, and a 13 y.o. sister who may very well join the ranks of D&D players - I honestly would rather keep the game as socially acceptable as possible.

Welcome to ZomboniLand - My D&D Blog http://zomboniland.blogspot.com/
I'd take care using terms like "politically correct" or "politically incorrect". They've become buzzwords with frankly insulting connotations both ways. Do I think that D&D and its artwork should be inclusive? Absolutely. Fantasy role-playing is not a straight-white-male-only hobby, so it'd be nice to see other things represented. I like looking at the Human stat block and seeing representitives that don't all look white. If you're going to have men wearing practical and realistic armor, then have women wear practical and realistic armor too! If you are going to have women running around in chainmail bikinis, then have men running around in chainmail speedos! Importantly, though, we don't have to be restricted only to sexualization or non-sexualization. We can have both. Let's just try to even it out a little bit. Sexualization is only a problem, only "politically incorrect", when it isn't done right.

EDIT: As a side note, I am fairly confidant that the other topic was closed because the of the second image that I posted, and I AM NOT sorry. I am fairly confidant of that because it's happened before on these very boards. People posting sexualized imaged of women is fine, but as soon as I throw an equally-sexualized guy or two in there, OH NO, SOMEBODY CALL THE WAAAAAMBULANCE!

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
IIf you are going to have women running around in chainmail bikinis, then have men running around in chainmail speedos!

See also: www.starz.com/originals/spartacus

Dungeons and Dragons has a unique role to play in the PnP RPG market. I think one of the values really should be diversity and an honest attempt to be as welcoming and inclusive as possible towards everyone. There is absolutely a niche for hardcore violence and sex in the RPG market, and 3rd party books or even WotC supplements that provide that experience would probably have some value. But for the most part Dungeons and Dragons should try to be a game that is appropriate for ages 9 to 90, and should be sensitive to the desires of girls, boys, boys who like girls, girls who like boys, girls who like girls, boys who like boys who look like girls, and every permutation I haven't listed, as well as pink, brown, and green people, although I wish the green ones well and hope they stop feeling so sick once they get their sealegs.
Well since the tykes are the ones with the most free time and their parents being the ones footing the bill I think that the game should be of th PG variety in it's art and language. The older folks should be capable of adding any adult themes they like. I don't want to go to a store and see some content warning on a book I want to buy. 

D&D went through this sort of thing in the eighties for just the reason the OP mentions in his post. Parents were up in arms because they felt the game lent itself to devil worship and bordered on the pornographic, Not a good image to have if you want to sell your game to the demographic with the most free time to play your game.
At its core it should be as family friendly as possible, players can and should be able to set the adult themes for themselves.

If WotC wanted to put to market some adult 18+ content on the side, go for it - though it should probably be just fluff (or how to use existing material in an adult fasion) so no one feels they need to get it or are missing out.

32 years old with a variety of players at my table, and a 13 y.o. sister who may very well join the ranks of D&D players - I honestly would rather keep the game as socially acceptable as possible.




I'm totally with you.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/23.jpg)

EDIT: As a side note, I am fairly confidant that the other topic was closed because the of the second image that I posted, and I AM NOT sorry. I am fairly confidant of that because it's happened before on these very boards. People posting sexualized imaged of women is fine, but as soon as I throw an equally-sexualized guy or two in there, OH NO, SOMEBODY CALL THE WAAAAAMBULANCE!



While I don't pretend to know why it was closed down, this is pure speculation and I think the image in question is the least offensive one posted.
I see the reasoning in keeping the game a 10 and family friendly, but right now my favorte TV series tend to be things like Being Human, True Blood, The Tudors, Game of Thrones, Lonely Girl, Dollhouse,Sparticus blood and sand, etc. sex and violence tend to be HUGE parts of those series, and I think I'd rather have a more adult themed core game in line with those dramas, aimed at the people who will be most likely to be playing it (adult males) and then do what the box sets did and have an alternate family friendly version for when the 13 yr old daughter wants to play an elf princess or the 10 yr old wants to play D&D with his friends etc...  Otherwise the designer is going to have to keep all those other elements (decapitating vorpal swords, etc) far away from the core rules... which seems pretty anti traditional D&D to me.
"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." Gygax
Adding in boobs and bulges later is far preferable to having a "Junior Edition" appear.
While I don't pretend to know why it was closed down, this is pure speculation and I think the image in question is the least offensive one posted.

Like I said, I am fairly confidant of that because it's happened before.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
I see the reasoning in keeping the game a 10 and family friendly, but right now my favorte TV series tend to be things like Being Human, True Blood, The Tudors, Game of Thrones, Lonely Girl, Dollhouse,Sparticus blood and sand, etc. sex and violence tend to be HUGE parts of those series, and I think I'd rather have a more adult themed core game in line with those dramas, aimed at the people who will be most likely to be playing it (adult males) and then do what the box sets did and have an alternate family friendly version for when the 13 yr old daughter wants to play an elf princess or the 10 yr old wants to play D&D with his friends etc...  Otherwise the designer is going to have to keep all those other elements (decapitating vorpal swords, etc) far away from the core rules... which seems pretty anti traditional D&D to me.



Once again though it is easy to add in, why should they push away a bigger audience.
these are things that should be in the book of vile darkness, and not in the general game.

if they send the 5th edition of the book of vile darkness to a rating agency  and it comes back with anything below a 18+ rating they need to re do the thing.

it should be sold sealed in plastic
it should be the kind of book that the owner of the game store stores behind the counter and checks your ID before you can have a,look at it.

 
I see the reasoning in keeping the game a 10 and family friendly, but right now my favorte TV series tend to be things like Being Human, True Blood, The Tudors, Game of Thrones, Lonely Girl, Dollhouse,Sparticus blood and sand, etc. sex and violence tend to be HUGE parts of those series, and I think I'd rather have a more adult themed core game in line with those dramas, aimed at the people who will be most likely to be playing it (adult males) and then do what the box sets did and have an alternate family friendly version for when the 13 yr old daughter wants to play an elf princess or the 10 yr old wants to play D&D with his friends etc...  Otherwise the designer is going to have to keep all those other elements (decapitating vorpal swords, etc) far away from the core rules... which seems pretty anti traditional D&D to me.



Let's change the question a bit:

1. In order for you to have adult themed games, what does the "crunch n' fluff" need to provide? What are the requirements?
2. What things, if not in the book, will diminish or prevent you from running those types of games?
3. How detailed does it need to meet your needs? Do you need graphic details? Do you need artwork? 

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It would be a lot easier for this guy to introduce his 9 year old nephew to D&D without having to go through my books with a roll of electrical tape, censoring 'questionable' images. D&D is a game that is meant to fire the imagination- so let's leave any of 'those kind' of images to the imagination of the players. After all, I'm sure you have a MUCH better image in your head of what you want to see than the artists can come up with, or you wouldn't be playing a game based on imagination!!!
I'm sure I'm going to be in a minority here, but I would like to at least differentiate between 'nudity' and 'adult or sexual content'.  There's already enough sex-negativity and body shame around to go on the warpath about the fact that a harpy has breasts.  I think incidental non-sexual nudity should be fine in this day and age and we shouldn't try to "protect" everyone from it.  This sort of behavior actually tends to make the problems worse, not better.

So I agree that the core content should be free of sexually explicit references or illustrations (although I personally would have no problem seeing modules or specialty books that contain some, as long as they are clear that they do).  Let's just be healthy about it.


I see the reasoning in keeping the game a 10 and family friendly, but right now my favorte TV series tend to be things like Being Human, True Blood, The Tudors, Game of Thrones, Lonely Girl, Dollhouse,Sparticus blood and sand, etc. sex and violence tend to be HUGE parts of those series, and I think I'd rather have a more adult themed core game in line with those dramas, aimed at the people who will be most likely to be playing it (adult males) and then do what the box sets did and have an alternate family friendly version for when the 13 yr old daughter wants to play an elf princess or the 10 yr old wants to play D&D with his friends etc...  Otherwise the designer is going to have to keep all those other elements (decapitating vorpal swords, etc) far away from the core rules... which seems pretty anti traditional D&D to me.



I really think your are not going to see Wizards of the Coast a subsidory of Hasboro move towards a more "Adult" oriented, or even two release versions one "family friendly" and one more "adult", its a lot about market image for better or worse.

You can always add in whatever themes you wish and there is plenty of "inspirational" artwork out there for almost any "style" of DnD you want to play. 
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I spent a while prepping that, so I missed the start of this thread.

The two should probably be merged.

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I play D&D with my kids and other kids.  And a heck of a lot of people I know start playing between the ages of 10-15 (or younger).  The game material has to be suitable for that market.  Organized play has to be suitable to that market.


Your home game - rock on.  If you want whoremongering, raping, and objectifying sex/race/creed, or even an intensely gorey game at home, you have at it.  Just don't bring it to a public place.  The wonderful thing about fluff is it is fluff.  You can mold it and form it to your desire or ignore it all together.  D&D will never stop you from fluffing a game any way you want.


TjD

I don't know that it is necessary for WotC to include adult themes or graphic material as part of their offering. I'd say that the DM needs to decide, based on the ages and genders of his group, what is apporpriate material for the group and move on from there. WotC doesn't need to decide this for us.
I'm sure I'm going to be in a minority here, but I would like to at least differentiate between 'nudity' and 'adult or sexual content'.  There's already enough sex-negativity and body shame around to go on the warpath about the fact that a harpy has breasts.  I think incidental non-sexual nudity should be fine in this day and age and we shouldn't try to "protect" everyone from it.  This sort of behavior actually tends to make the problems worse, not better.



 



This is true, Game of Thrones isn't adult because of its nudity and violence, it is adult because of a mature treatment of the events.  They are layered with levels beyond a child's understanding of the world.  In truth I have nothing against actual adult treatment of things like nudity, and violence.  I'm against it being put in because A. D&D have never done it well, and B. it is not necessary and pushes other people away.

Also I have no idea where the idea came that D&D was always adult in theme, none of this stuff was in my basic books.  Other then a few rare and poor examples (**** races) it was rare in 1st and 2nd ed stuff (vorpal does not equal mature or adult).
I'm sure I'm going to be in a minority here, but I would like to at least differentiate between 'nudity' and 'adult or sexual content'.  There's already enough sex-negativity and body shame around to go on the warpath about the fact that a harpy has breasts.  I think incidental non-sexual nudity should be fine in this day and age and we shouldn't try to "protect" everyone from it.  This sort of behavior actually tends to make the problems worse, not better.

I actually totally agree. It's totally fine to show a bit of skin or even for the game to have nudity. But it's all in the context. Artwork depicting a fertility festival where men and women dance in somewhat revealing but still tasteful outfits? Probably fine. Artwork depicting an impossibly-built character in a chain-mail bikini looking like they're climaxing while they gets hit with a spell in the middle of battle? Probably not fine.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
I'm going to use a different scale.

I like my games to be PG.  I don't include sex, gore, 'adult themes', drugs, nudity or anything of the sort.  The only thing that stops my games from being PG is language (because you really just can't stop a bunch of 40 year olds from swearing casually).

I'm not remotely interested in seeing any of that in the game books.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.

EDIT: As a side note, I am fairly confidant that the other topic was closed because the of the second image that I posted, and I AM NOT sorry. I am fairly confidant of that because it's happened before on these very boards. People posting sexualized imaged of women is fine, but as soon as I throw an equally-sexualized guy or two in there, OH NO, SOMEBODY CALL THE WAAAAAMBULANCE!


I found the second picture incredibly offensive.  I mean, we're shown this guy, who is obviously supposed to be "cool" and "sexy" but then he has a jazz patch.  It's a well documented, objective fact that jazz patches are less cool and sexy than full beards.
Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven. You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool.
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While I'm all for graphic violence and think it's incredibly stupid that a natural act like sex is frowned upon in a game that glorifies murder as a viable tool for conflict resolution, I don't see D&D being anything like what I'd be ok with anytime soon.  And that's ok.  It doesn't need to be and, silly or not in some ways, I understand that.  People today are squeamish about boobs.  They just are.  Lop off a dood's head with an axe all ya like but don't show me his junk.  Stupid, but it's where we are. 

D&D had some trouble way back when with image.  The last thing D&D needs to rediscover from the past is image issues.  Keep it clean, keep it kid friendly and maybe put out some adult themed supplements down the road.  Maybe.  Cuz the truth is the game can be whatever we want it to be.  I've done all sorts of nasty stuff in game without anything from WotC to help me.  And that's how it should be.  Make the game as acceptable as possible to the broadest audience possible.  That should be the goal.

In an unrelated note, I'm also all for equality in imagery.  Give us men and women of all colors.  Give us example characters with same sex partners.  Hell, maybe this stupid game can do a little good in the world by doin' it.  And it's the right thing to do.
Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

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[b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

Give us example characters with same sex partners.

THIS SO MUCH!
There are so many examples in D&D of straight romance, but I can't think of a single one of a gay romance. I was looking for a picture in my image folder of a gay fantasy couple so I could show an example, but I can't find one.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
Just use Sam and Frodo.
Slash is cute, but it will never hold a candle to Canon.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
I'm not against chesey art like a big breasted woman wearing a scale mail bikini type armor, or a man wearing an armored kilt with a six pack( hey whats good for the goose is good for the gander) but mind you nudity is not bad as long as its tasteful, which means not for the sake of adding it just because.


and as the symbol once said, its an arse, we all have one.



that said.... I'd rather not see it because I don't really want to see dnd in the news about dnd teaching children sex, seduction and lust.




tasteful art.... and besides, I think the book of erotic whatever I thought was garbage           
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
On one hand I can see an arguement honestly for the phb cleavage is probably far enough. As for violence some blood is okay, but you wouldn't say an Atropal with intestines hanging out. I just don't agree that nipples and a little gore will be harmful.

On the other hand DnD is not really appriotate for young children to began with. If your kid is young enough to be impressionable, the having her play a game where she goes around killing creatures for gold sets a bad example. If she's 13 or 14 she probably seen worse on the internet already.

I never understood why people think kids seeing a nipple will be a scarring experience, what exactly do they think will happen to the kid?

(Anything with S&M or other more extreme things like genocide or abortion should be reserved for supplements with a warning on them, 18 and older I include the realms in that)
Give us example characters with same sex partners.

THIS SO MUCH!
There are so many examples in D&D of straight romance, but I can't think of a single one of a gay romance. I was looking for a picture in my image folder of a gay fantasy couple so I could show an example, but I can't find one.



But then, it needs to be done in a tasteful manner... Given that even other media rarely represent homosexuality in a tasteful manner, I don't think that D&D will be a positive example.

Also, a lot of young people play D&D, and they tend to be embarassed around these themes (in the best case scenario), this generate a lot of snickering and bad jokes or even full homophobia... I don't think that the D&D demographic is ready for that.
But then, it needs to be done in a tasteful manner... Given that even other media rarely represent homosexuality in a tasteful manner, I don't think that D&D will be a positive example.

Also, a lot of young people play D&D, and they tend to be embarassed around these themes (in the best case scenario), this generate a lot of snickering and bad jokes or even full homophobia... I don't think that the D&D demographic is ready for that.



This is sort of what I meant with that whole 'maybe it'll do some good' thing.  Cuz maybe if more people are exposed to this sort of thing in a positive way more often, maybe it'll begin to be seen as normal as it actually is.  And I don't see why people should be refused something because kids may snicker about it.  That's not fair to them. 

Meh, hiding stuff from kids is a good way to ensure their ill-informed prejudices stay with them, IMO.  Why do we see a man and a woman as 'normal'?  Cuz we see it everywhere and have been seeing it everywhere and told it's normal forever.  Maybe if we stop sheltering kids from perfectly normal stuff they'll begin to understand it is normal.
Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

Section Six Soldier

Front Door of the House of Trolls

[b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

But then, it needs to be done in a tasteful manner... Given that even other media rarely represent homosexuality in a tasteful manner, I don't think that D&D will be a positive example.

I can tell you right now as a gay man that I would respect them far more for trying and failing than for not trying at all.

Also, a lot of young people play D&D, and they tend to be embarassed around these themes (in the best case scenario), this generate a lot of snickering and bad jokes or even full homophobia...

That problem can't be fixed if it's just ignored. It has to be addressed for it to be overcome. People are rarely ready for what needs to be done. Zombie_Babies has it right.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
But then, it needs to be done in a tasteful manner... Given that even other media rarely represent homosexuality in a tasteful manner, I don't think that D&D will be a positive example.

I can tell you right now as a gay man that I would respect them far more for trying and failing than for not trying at all.

Also, a lot of young people play D&D, and they tend to be embarassed around these themes (in the best case scenario), this generate a lot of snickering and bad jokes or even full homophobia...

That problem can't be fixed if it's just ignored. It has to be addressed for it to be overcome. People are rarely ready for what needs to be done. Zombie_Babies has it right.



Yeah, you have a point... And really, I'm all for it! Maybe it's just strange to imagine D&D as an harbringer of a new way of thinking :D
But hey, we gotta start somewhere!

We really really neet homosexuality to be represented in a mora tasteful/mature way, tough. I don't think that stereotyping it or putting it just because it's edgy (like in Dragon Age 2, for example) will be a positive thing in the long run...
Well, we may be in luck on that front.  WotC has said they're all for fan input and I happen to know a couple of gay members that would be able to assist them in getting it right if they were inclined to listen and these folks had the time to talk. 
Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

Section Six Soldier

Front Door of the House of Trolls

[b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]


We really really neet homosexuality to be represented in a mora tasteful/mature way, tough. I don't think that stereotyping it or putting it just because it's edgy (like in Dragon Age 2, for example) will be a positive thing in the long run...



I haven't seen the final implementation, but homosexuality was definitely included in Dragon Age 2 because homosexual fans repeatedly asked for it. A dev even posted to the forums in response to one request, saying that they really should have thought of that by themselves and that they would make an effort in future games to be more inclusive. It was kind of epic actually.

Also, a lot of young people play D&D, and they tend to be embarassed around these themes (in the best case scenario), this generate a lot of snickering and bad jokes or even full homophobia...



I can't think of a better reason TO do it than that. Unfamiliarity causes embarassment for a lot of people, it's only if it becomes common place that people stop having those kind of reactions. Man if we can get kids comfortable seeing an image of a same-sex couple engaged in a marriage ritual in a fantasy temple than when they grow up they won't think it's such a stretch if they see it at a court-house or a church.

We really really neet homosexuality to be represented in a mora tasteful/mature way, tough. I don't think that stereotyping it or putting it just because it's edgy (like in Dragon Age 2, for example) will be a positive thing in the long run...



I haven't seen the final implementation, but homosexuality was definitely included in Dragon Age 2 because homosexual fans repeatedly asked for it. A dev even posted to the forums in response to one request, saying that they really should have thought of that by themselves and that they would make an effort in future games to be more inclusive. It was kind of epic actually.



I already knew that story! Probably I've chosen the wrong word, sorry (as always, my english can improve ^^"), in regard to Dragon Age 2, I felt that the same-sex romance was implemented in a sloppy manner, it was too forced/tacked on and in the end managed to hurt the characters.

At least, that was my point of view as a somewhat open-minded heterosexual male! I don't know if those who made the request in the first place are happy with that.
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