Need help converting a 3.5 character idea to 4e: Counterspeller

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One of my players used to play a counterspell-focused character back in 3.5, and wants to create a similar character in a 4e game I'm running. Since counterspell rules don't really exist in 4e, I was wondering how to implement this idea.

The basic criteria is this: melee warrior-style character that is designed to disrupt enemy spellcasters. An anti-magic fighter, if you will. Any ideas or suggestions would be much appreciated
This would fall into the Controller role and there are only two melee controllers currently: Wild-Shape Druid and Bladesinger.  Of these two, the Bladesinger might be a better choice, but it is still not the same thing since very few Wizard spells "debuff" enemies, which is what you would need for a counterspeller in 4e.

The premise would basically be that you are countering their spells before they cast them, by applying penalties to their attack rolls.  There are a handful of Wizard and Sorcerer utility powers which can dispel zones and conjurations, so you might take a look at the Bladesinger (since it gets Wizard utility powers.)

Of the non-melee controllers, the Invoker would be the next best thing for a counterspeller but it is still going to be countering the spells before they are cast by applying penalties.
i think immediate interrupts are your best bet here, and i'm pretty sure swordmage is what you're looking for as it has marks, fightery feel, magic, and a lot of interrupts and reactions.

i seem to remember a paragon path for ensnaring swordmages (kinda tricky to use as primary defender though) whose flavour is arcane hunter, which seems what you described.

anyway i'll look a little more and hopefully find something more ^^

edit: after looking a bit i think shielding swordmage is definitely better than ensnaring, as the mark punishment is kinda "countering" enemy attacks, and the powers feeling is closer to "counterspells" all-around

i'm looking now into hybrid wizard|shielding swordmage, i'll let you know 
i think immediate interrupts are your best bet here, and i'm pretty sure swordmage is what you're looking for as it has marks, fightery feel, magic, and a lot of interrupts and reactions.



Yeah, that does fit the vibe he's going for. The original 3.5 character he's trying to emulate was a fighter/wizard, so swordmage with lots of immediate powers works.

edit: after looking a bit i think shielding swordmage is definitely better than ensnaring, as the mark punishment is kinda "countering" enemy attacks, and the powers feeling is closer to "counterspells" all-around

i'm looking now into hybrid wizard|shielding swordmage, i'll let you know 



Very good point, I hadn't even thought of the shielding swordmage mark punishment as a "counter", but it could very well be flavoured as such. Let me know what else you come up with, you've already been a great help

For what I've found a classic Hybrid Wizard|Shielding Swordmage seems perfect, taking pretty much every good interrupt between powers and items, for paragon path both Coronal Guard (boring but effective) and Spellguard Wizard (pretty nice and has anti-teleport fields too) are fitting

for races any with Intelligence could do, with Eladrin, Genasi, Warforged and Human on top (Eladrin for support and not wasted dexterity, Genasi and Warforged for perfecct stats and human because they're awesome at everything, and bonus at-will on hybrids is really good)

edit: i'd also keep a simple Dispelling Tome +2 at the belt for Dispel Magic access without burning a power slot 
This would fall into the Controller role and there is only one melee controllers currently: Wild-Shape Druid.


Fixed that for you.
you don't need to be a wizard to have wizard's utilities. 3 words : order adept theme
Order Adept theme only allows you to pick level 2 Wizard utilities.
Was it common in 3.5 to have people counter spells?  I mean really.  Whenever I played no one did.  Hell half them didn't know how to do, and the other half didn't know you could
I think Shielding Swordmage is absolutely the best option for this.

Paladins and Warlords also get a few immediate interrupt or reaction encounters that would also be flavorful for this.
Order Adept theme only allows you to pick level 2 Wizard utilities.


That's the first part of the level 5 feature, the second part lets you pick wizard utilities whenever you gain or retrain utlities as you level, so long as you don't have a spellbook.
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Order Adept theme only allows you to pick level 2 Wizard utilities.


That's the first part of the level 5 feature, the second part lets you pick wizard utilities whenever you gain or retrain utlities as you level, so long as you don't have a spellbook.


That was unintentional wording which has since been fixed...

www.wizards.com/dnd/downloads/dragon/399... states "Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Arcana checks. If you have a spellbook, add one 2nd-level wizard utility power to it. If you don’t have a spellbook, you can choose wizard utility powers of a particular level or lower when you gain or retrain utility powers of that level."

However, the compendium and builder read"Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Arcana checks. If you have a spellbook, add one 2nd-level wizard utility power to it. If you don’t have a spellbook, 2nd-level wizard utility powers can be selected when you gain or retrain utility powers."
I also strongly recommend the Shielding Swordmage, and in particular a Genasi one for mass adaptable resistances.
Order Adept theme only allows you to pick level 2 Wizard utilities.


That's the first part of the level 5 feature, the second part lets you pick wizard utilities whenever you gain or retrain utlities as you level, so long as you don't have a spellbook.


That was unintentional wording which has since been fixed...

www.wizards.com/dnd/downloads/dragon/399... states "Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Arcana checks. If you have a spellbook, add one 2nd-level wizard utility power to it. If you don’t have a spellbook, you can choose wizard utility powers of a particular level or lower when you gain or retrain utility powers of that level."

However, the compendium and builder read"Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Arcana checks. If you have a spellbook, add one 2nd-level wizard utility power to it. If you don’t have a spellbook, 2nd-level wizard utility powers can be selected when you gain or retrain utility powers."


I can't believe I'm having to say this again, since it's stated dozens of times in nearly every ongoing thread in this forum:

Neither the Online Compendium nor the Character Builder are valid rules sources.


Dragon Magazine articles, and the relevant updates are. There is no errata/update that changes the wording of the Level 5 Benefit. Order Adept lets you choose Wizard Utility Powers of a particular level or lower when you gain or retrain utility powers of that level, thus a Level 10 Swordmage with the Order Adept theme could choose Illusory Wall (Wizard U10) for their 10th level Utility power.

In regards to the actual discussion, I think that powers which boost defenses (or lower attack bonus) are a better mechanical representation of counterspelling since they actually cause an attack to fail. A better representation, thematically, would probably be a Battlemind with Lightning Rush, you psychically hinder the attacks of your enemies with your mark, and if they do hit, you rush forward and attack the enemy, potentially absorbing the attack yourself.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
IIRC, the bard has some stuff that fits the bill. Swordmage as well, of course.


Definately doable in 4e.
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Neither the Online Compendium nor the Character Builder are valid rules sources.


Dragon Magazine articles, and the relevant updates are. There is no errata/update that changes the wording of the Level 5 Benefit. Order Adept lets you choose Wizard Utility Powers of a particular level or lower when you gain or retrain utility powers of that level, thus a Level 10 Swordmage with the Order Adept theme could choose Illusory Wall (Wizard U10) for their 10th level Utility power.



Care to cite why you believe the online compendium is not a valid rules source?  I'm pretty sure it is.  The character builder isn't, of course.
Because the valid rules source is the original publication (either books, or Dragon/Dungeon), and any errata thereof.  The online compendium is neither.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
The online compendium is neither.


(And is, in fact, frequently at odds with published errata and finalised Dragon articles.)
The online compendium is essential a third party database with no oversight from WotC, it isn't updated with the rules in the RC (because they want to sell more books), and multiple entries contain typos which don't appear (and sometimes never appeared) in the article or errata/update, some entries don't even exist anymore (sigil of admixture), or never existed at all (keen weapon, which thankfully was removed).

It's as much of a rules source as any given 3rd party database.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Human As Monster used as a Companion Character,
could snag Dispel Magic, the lich mind spike alternative
power in the back of Open Grave, and the reflecto-something
power in MM3 ... (I'd have to get my notes out to find the specific
monster and power name)

Here comes your 19th forums breakdown ... ohh who's to blame, it ain't 5E driving you insane.