01/13/2012 LD: "Transformation Transformed"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Latest Developments, which goes live Friday morning on magicthegathering.com.
Weird.  The front face clearly shows him wearing wolf pelts, yet he makes wolf tokens.  I get the life gain from hunting, but the token-making doesn't make sense if he's hunting wolves.  (Unless these are naked wolf tokens.)  The art should have been more like that of Master of the Wild Hunt, which clearly "explains" the wolf-making.

The double abilities certainly look clunky, but their multiple symmetries are really beautiful.  I'm sure it plays smoother than it reads.  Well done.

 

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I thought Tom LaPille is leaving, but he's still writing articles?
I liked the uncommon wolf previewed by PlanetMTG (Immerwolf) better than this one. What, my Reckless Waif is a 4/3 and can't transform back?
Awesomesauce. Might be able to stick those two into a RDW now...
so, instead of "it deals 2 damage to target opponent and 2 damage to up to one target creature", couldn't it just have been a may for both sets of 2 damage?  a little less powerful, but also less words and (to me at least), sounds less clunky...

so, instead of "it deals 2 damage to target opponent and 2 damage to up to one target creature", couldn't it just have been a may for both sets of 2 damage?  a little less powerful, but also less words and (to me at least), sounds less clunky...



Well the triggered ability has to have legal targets (otherwise it's countered altogether), so yeah they had to say "may" for the creature part...
Has Tom played TWEWY(The World Ends With You)? The title makes me think so.
In any case, I like Huntsman. Not a big fan of Afflicted yet.
Hmmm......a werewolf that myopponents want to KEEP me from transforming over and over and over again ALLOWING MY OTHER WEREWOLVES TO NOT HAVE TO TRANSFORM.............SIGN ME UP!! So want to pull this in a draft.
I thought Tom LaPille is leaving, but he's still writing articles?



I believe that he said that since he was so involved in Dark Ascensions that he would still be coming back to write a couple of articles for the preview weeks.
Have to agree with Pedrodyl here, the uncommon preview of Immerwolf is far more exciting than this mythic and is what I was hoping for ever since werewolves were first previewed last year. I thought they would print something like it in the final set, didn't expect it this soon and to take creature form either. To bad both these previewed werewolfs in this article mechanically clash with Immerwolf and the other previewed werewolf Tovolar's Magehunter. That doesn't mean they're bad cards by any means, they just don't fit werewolf tribal too well, I can see this mythic werewolf being a awesome card in non-werewolf decks.
Are the triggered abilities really necessary?  It seems that most of these cards' functionality could have been preserved by saying things like "At the beginning of each upkeep, if no spells were cast last turn, transform this and do blah".  This would have three advantages:

  1. it would make the cards less wordy,

  2. it would require fewer clicks on MTGO, and

  3. the more immediately relevant information would be visible; i. e., if you looked at Huntmaster of the Fells, you would know what was going to happen as soon as it transformed.

I made the complaint about werewolves already, but...  even more so than werewolves, this is card that flavor-wise seems like it wants to switch sides.  He's fighting the same people he was in death that he was in life!  That's not scary, that's inspirational.  I realize that, say, a 3/2 for W that becomes a 2/1 enemy Zombie upon death from combat damage is *super* swingy gameplaywise, but it'd fit better.  If Loyal Cathar's going to become Loyal Zombie Helper, tell the artist to draw a pitiable zombie dressed in the same clothes going through the motions, and have flavor text along the lines of "He kept on fighting, although he couldn't remember quite why."  That's a solid card flavor-wise too, but it's not what "Unhallowed Cathar" banging down the door implies.
I made the complaint about werewolves already, but...  even more so than werewolves, this is card that flavor-wise seems like it wants to switch sides.  He's fighting the same people he was in death that he was in life!  That's not scary, that's inspirational.  I realize that, say, a 3/2 for W that becomes a 2/1 enemy Zombie upon death from combat damage is *super* swingy gameplaywise, but it'd fit better.  If Loyal Cathar's going to become Loyal Zombie Helper, tell the artist to draw a pitiable zombie dressed in the same clothes going through the motions, and have flavor text along the lines of "He kept on fighting, although he couldn't remember quite why."  That's a solid card flavor-wise too, but it's not what "Unhallowed Cathar" banging down the door implies.



2/2 vigiliant dies and becomes 2/1. This isn't necessarily a combat card, as I suspect it is being used to fuel a WBR tokens archetype. WB tokens using BR "consumers" such as Falkenrath Aristocrat and Sorin and a maker/abuser. Loyal Cather then becomes double food (and a +1/+1 counter) for the Aristocrat. This cannot have been unintentional. The vigilance ability is therefore somewhat more defensive than aggressive, while you shift into aggro after eating the guy in response to removal or something other (without first strike, its going to die a little easier than Elite Inquisitor).
"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count." "Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969) "Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)
I like the story Loyal/Unhallowed Cathar tells, it's a very tragic character.  He's a devout guy, doing his duty in the face of incredible odds, and fearing the consequences if he fails. Kind of like one of the Men of the Night's Watch from the Game of Thrones series who are also duty-bound defenders of their people who fear coming back from the dead as the very threat they are defending against.  Then, his fears become realized and despite Thalia's reassurances, he becomes a zombie and turns on his people. The flavor text reinforces the tragic nature of the character.  The bit about not being able to block then reads as a sign of the total loss of his former self: he goes from someone who is a defender of the people to something that can't defend at all.
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Qilong: Gameplay wise, it's a solid card.  Just the flavor doesn't work for me; it needed to be a "nice zombie" if the rules text is kept the same, not a "turned berserk zombie."

Tap4Mana: Yeah, but the fallen of the Night's Watch who aren't burned attack their former friends.  This guy attacks the same bad guys still, although the loss of his ability to block is somewhat flavorful, I'll grant.
I agree with the posters who have said the text on the mythic rare card is clunky, especially the back face. I really hate the "up to one target" wording. I understand the reasoning behind it: to allow the two damage to the opponent to still resolve even if he or she controls no creatures. But that, in my opinion, doesn't justify the clunkiness of "up to one".
I know that this would have been a bit more powerful, but couldn't it have been worded "Deals 2 damage to each of up to two target creatures or players"? Yes, it loses the symmetry of "make a creature and gain 2 life, kill a creature and deal 2 damage", but it's much more aesthetically appealing. Better yet, the card could have been B/G, so the symmetry could be perfected: "Whenever this creature transforms into Ravager of the Fells, target opponent loses 2 life and sacrifices a creature."
Also, I liked the idea of triggered abilities that trigger on transformation, but after reading goblinrecruiter's post about appending it to the transform trigger, "transform Wolfman and do blah" does seem like a slightly better way of doing it.

However, I do enjoy the front face. Cool design. I just wish the back face had been polished a little better before being finalized.

Oh, and a question: Is this our legendary werewolf, then? Because from where I'm sitting, it's not legendary...
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I really hate the "up to one target" wording. I understand the reasoning behind it: to allow the two damage to the opponent to still resolve even if he or she controls no creatures. But that, in my opinion, doesn't justify the clunkiness of "up to one".


Agreed completely.  I vividly remember when Conjurer's Bauble first brought that wording to my attention and made me blow a gasket.  The targeting rules are one of the screwiest things in Magic and I wish they would do away with the imprecise usage of English in favor of some sort of abbreviation- or icon-based encoding which clarifies whether targeting is optional or mandatory.
Oh, and a question: Is this our legendary werewolf, then? Because from where I'm sitting, it's not legendary...


We know from the checklist card that this is the only gold DFC in the set (unless there are two checklist cards designed to create that illusion, but I think that surpassingly unlikely).  More likely we'll get a card for the legendary werewolf leader described in the flavor articles last fall, and he will be all mythic and legend-y and such specifically because he never turns back into a puny human anymore.  He'll just be a standard fatty in and of himself, but when there's a bunch of Gastaf Shepherds behind him flipping back and forth and he just stands there looking like the unholy love child of Lon Chaney and Dolph Lundgren the whole time, it'll send a heck of a message.
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As far as the benefit of the rest of Magic is concerned, gold cards in Legends were executed perfectly. They got all the excitement a designer could hope out of a splashy new mechanic without using up any of the valuable design space. Truly amazing. --Aaron Forsythe's Random Card Comment on Kei Takahashi
Qilong: Gameplay wise, it's a solid card.  Just the flavor doesn't work for me; it needed to be a "nice zombie" if the rules text is kept the same, not a "turned berserk zombie."

Tap4Mana: Yeah, but the fallen of the Night's Watch who aren't burned attack their former friends.  This guy attacks the same bad guys still, although the loss of his ability to block is somewhat flavorful, I'll grant.

In the game he's still attacking the same creatures... but on the card he's busting into the building he was guarding as a Cathar... so it makes more sense that he's attacking humans, not monsters.
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I agree with the posters who have said the text on the mythic rare card is clunky, especially the back face. I really hate the "up to one target" wording. I understand the reasoning behind it: to allow the two damage to the opponent to still resolve even if he or she controls no creatures. But that, in my opinion, doesn't justify the clunkiness of "up to one".
I know that this would have been a bit more powerful, but couldn't it have been worded "Deals 2 damage to each of up to two target creatures or players"? Yes, it loses the symmetry of "make a creature and gain 2 life, kill a creature and deal 2 damage", but it's much more aesthetically appealing. Better yet, the card could have been B/G, so the symmetry could be perfected: "Whenever this creature transforms into Ravager of the Fells, target opponent loses 2 life and sacrifices a creature."
Also, I liked the idea of triggered abilities that trigger on transformation, but after reading goblinrecruiter's post about appending it to the transform trigger, "transform Wolfman and do blah" does seem like a slightly better way of doing it.

However, I do enjoy the front face. Cool design. I just wish the back face had been polished a little better before being finalized.

Oh, and a question: Is this our legendary werewolf, then? Because from where I'm sitting, it's not legendary...

I don't think that pre-flip rules text affecting the card post-flip works within the rules nicely. You could probably do something with counters along the lines of "at the beginning of your upkeep, if no spells were cast last turn put an angry counter on, and transform, ~" then have the flip side say "remove an angry counter from ~, do cool stuff" since counters stay on the permanent regardless of it's flipped or unflipped status.

I could be completely wrong, but I could see how it could be a bit of a can of worms.
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Oh, and a question: Is this our legendary werewolf, then? Because from where I'm sitting, it's not legendary...



There is a cycle of mythic nonlegendary multicolor creatures in DA, so I guess this one in part of that, and the legendary one is a multicolor single-faced card like Willpell says. 


Are the triggered abilities really necessary?  It seems that most of these cards' functionality could have been preserved by saying things like "At the beginning of each upkeep, if no spells were cast last turn, transform this and do blah".  This would have three advantages:

  1. it would make the cards less wordy,

  2. it would require fewer clicks on MTGO, and

  3. the more immediately relevant information would be visible; i. e., if you looked at Huntmaster of the Fells, you would know what was going to happen as soon as it transformed.




It would also read very bad. On the day side, you would see the words about damage, and on the night side you see the words about life gain and companion creation. That's not aesthetically pleasing.  

Also they have to slightly alter the card, as the day side also triggers on entering the battlefield.  
Are the triggered abilities really necessary?  It seems that most of these cards' functionality could have been preserved by saying things like "At the beginning of each upkeep, if no spells were cast last turn, transform this and do blah".  This would have three advantages:

  1. it would make the cards less wordy,

  2. it would require fewer clicks on MTGO, and

  3. the more immediately relevant information would be visible; i. e., if you looked at Huntmaster of the Fells, you would know what was going to happen as soon as it transformed.





I think they chose not to do it like that to keep the "werewolf ability" the same as on all the other werewolf cards. This has the advantage that ones you know how werewolves work you can basically ignore those 3 lines of text on each side because you already know what they say. This saves time in game and while evaluating cards during drafting. Also as players might already act accordingly due to Innistrad, "hiding" additional information in there might not be a good idea.

Ok folks lets try to reduce the wordiness of our cards. Oh to hell with it lets make the wordiest card ever!
Ok folks lets try to reduce the wordiness of our cards. Oh to hell with it lets make the wordiest card ever!



It would seem that Frazzled Editor is gonna work overtime for this.

Oh, and a question: Is this our legendary werewolf, then? Because from where I'm sitting, it's not legendary...



That's exactly what I was thinking when I saw this. Innistrad had a tribal mythic semi-cycle of multicolored legendary creatures (Grimgrin (zombie), Olivia (vampire), Geist of St. Traft (spirit)) with nothing in Green/White or Red/Green. So I figured there would be a legendary Human for G/W and a werewolf for R/G. And I was thinking...this is it...until I saw the card. So it fits in with the mythic cycle of multi-colored non-Legendary creatures for DA but it doesn't seem like anything will fill the holes left in Innistrad. I kind of wonder why Mikaeus wasn't G/W instead of just white. Yeah, I know he's a cleric, but G/W (and moreso green) is THE color combination for creating +1/+1 counters without any stipulation (unlike B/R vampires where the creatures need to damage the opponent or kill a creature).
A G/R mythic legendary werewolf that transformed would be nice indeed. But it looks like we're not gonna get one at all. And I still see a lack of G/W among the mythics. Where's my G/W uber legendary human token/enhancement machine? 

My other thought is that Huntmaster of the Fells would have been perfect for the pre-release card, you know, if pre-release cards were still mythic. It was pretty awesome to show up for a pre-release tournament and get Ajani Vengeant, Wurmcoil Engine, Emrakul, or Sun Titan. Now we get standard transforming rares. Is that maybe because, like mythics, you're never guaranteed a rare transformer in a booster while you'll always get either mythic or normal rare?
This new legendary Werewolf could be useful in a Birthing Pod deck methinks, you always get a wolf and most likely a transformation out if it most of the times since you're Pod. I am not sure about the CMC of DFC when they transform though... is it 0 or the same as their regular side?

IMAGE(http://i1.minus.com/jbcBXM4z66fMtK.jpg)

192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?
0.....zero
I like fun, but competitive decks. So I might not play what is optimal but they have normally been tested to have a 2/3 winrate.

Oh, and a question: Is this our legendary werewolf, then? Because from where I'm sitting, it's not legendary...



That's exactly what I was thinking when I saw this. Innistrad had a tribal mythic semi-cycle of multicolored legendary creatures (Grimgrin (zombie), Olivia (vampire), Geist of St. Traft (spirit)) with nothing in Green/White or Red/Green. So I figured there would be a legendary Human for G/W and a werewolf for R/G. And I was thinking...this is it...until I saw the card. So it fits in with the mythic cycle of multi-colored non-Legendary creatures for DA but it doesn't seem like anything will fill the holes left in Innistrad. I kind of wonder why Mikaeus wasn't G/W instead of just white. Yeah, I know he's a cleric, but G/W (and moreso green) is THE color combination for creating +1/+1 counters without any stipulation (unlike B/R vampires where the creatures need to damage the opponent or kill a creature).
A G/R mythic legendary werewolf that transformed would be nice indeed. But it looks like we're not gonna get one at all. And I still see a lack of G/W among the mythics. Where's my G/W uber legendary human token/enhancement machine?



Green kinda merges as a color that doesn't necessarily "jive" with a solid Humans color; its where most of them are, but I tend to think this is largely due to influence of cards like Kessig Cagebreakers, where you get "humans" who do not really ally themselves to the plight of the "civilized" lands. Solid white already has a strong emphasis of the defensive nature of the Humans of Gavony and Thraben, who are trying to survive, so structurally, Mikaeus works just how he is.

I am, perhaps, looking forward to the G/W side of this cylce, but then, those are my prefered playing colors.

"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count." "Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969) "Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)
In response to the legendary comments, they did say during the Innistrad previews that they'd designed a cycle of mythic creatures and that the werewolf one got pushed back. They seemed very careful about not calling the cycle legendary.

I completely understand why there's no legendary Werewolf. The rules would be very strange, allowing you to have two copies of the card in play as long as they were on different sides. I am curious, though, about that DFC equipment on the checklist card, which definitely sounds legendary. I wonder if there's something about that card that avoids confusion. Maybe the other side is some sort of non-legendary enchantment or something that wouldn't clash with having another copy in play.

IMAGE(http://steamsignature.com/status/default/76561197995631463.png) No longer a commander as of 7/29/13.

As the son of a witch and someone with a strong preference for spirituality and nature-veneration over organized religion and theocracy, I would have very much liked to see more than slight hints about the survival of heathen nature-cults among the folk of Kessig - it's alluded to on two or three cards in ISD but we still see plenty of evidence that the church is still relied upon.  I like the idea of playing up a grudging cooperation between these pagans and a church that probably persecuted them prior to the monsters getting worse, but of course Wizards's storytelling is neither that sophisticated (simplistic three-act structure which only scratches the surface of the story environment) nor that controversial (they like having objective good guys, not moral complexity).

By the way was I the only one who noticed him saying "one" DFC in Ascension is a noncreature on both sides?  That would be the chalice, which means that my hope for the Binding Blade to be an equipment sword which turns into a creature is getting fulfilled.  I may have to get that card even if it's rare.
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As far as the benefit of the rest of Magic is concerned, gold cards in Legends were executed perfectly. They got all the excitement a designer could hope out of a splashy new mechanic without using up any of the valuable design space. Truly amazing. --Aaron Forsythe's Random Card Comment on Kei Takahashi
This is a pretty interesting card and it reads fine. You immediately get a 2/2 wolf when it comes into play, then you want to transform it as soon as possible (either by transforming all humans, or having your opponent cast no spells, which is more unlikely). However, you could play this, play Moonmist, then at the end step, because two spells were played this turn, it transforms back and you get a second wolf. You'd need 6 mana (2G, 1R, 3C) to pull it off, which would not be difficult for green. But for that 6 mana, you'd get a 4/4, gain 4 life, get two 2/2 wolf tokens, deal 2 damage to opponent, and kill off a 2 toughness creature. Very mana efficient. Just stock up this and Moonmist and you're good to go.


Green kinda merges as a color that doesn't necessarily "jive" with a solid Humans color; its where most of them are, but I tend to think this is largely due to influence of cards like Kessig Cagebreakers, where you get "humans" who do not really ally themselves to the plight of the "civilized" lands. Solid white already has a strong emphasis of the defensive nature of the Humans of Gavony and Thraben, who are trying to survive, so structurally, Mikaeus works just how he is.

I am, perhaps, looking forward to the G/W side of this cylce, but then, those are my prefered playing colors.




I tend to favor G/W as well. I was thinking of Elder of Laurels, considering it's the foil rare in the Innistrad human tribal pre-con deck. Plus there's Hamlet Captain which is an obvious human tribal card. Maybe it's just that the human faction is supposed to be scattered (especially in DA) so the cards indicate that it's not quite so organized at this point. 

And yes, flavorwise, Mikaeus should be all white since he's a cleric and represents holy power. Mechanically, he could have been G/W, though.

I'm also thinking in terms of Commander since that's my preferred format right now. I've notced that many of the Innistrad cards work exceedingly well with the pre-con Commanders, almost as if they made a lot of cards specificically with those Commanders in mind (or did they make the Commanders with Innistrad in mind?). So Mikaeus being white makes him easier to cast, but it limits the type of Commander deck you could build with him. However, he should be an absolute beast in a Ghave, Guru of Spores Commander deck, as would Sorin, Garruk, all of the token generators, Morbid and any of the new Undying creatures.  All of the graveyard cards work very well with The Mimeoplasm and flashback works well with Riku. Angelic Overseer is perfect with Khalia. the red/blue curses work well with Zedruu since the chosen player is still cursed regardless of who controls the enchantment. 
One day, we might do double-faced cards again.


I sincerely hope not. I don't care how cool it is (and it's fairly cool), it's non-functional from a physical gameplay reality. Ya'll did the best you could but Transform is a bad mechanic, especially the werewolf ones, and it needs to be released into the wild, never seen from again.

Either make a digital game, or accept that there are physical limitations. 




Oh, and a question: Is this our legendary werewolf, then? Because from where I'm sitting, it's not legendary...



That's exactly what I was thinking when I saw this. Innistrad had a tribal mythic semi-cycle of multicolored legendary creatures (Grimgrin (zombie), Olivia (vampire), Geist of St. Traft (spirit)) with nothing in Green/White or Red/Green. So I figured there would be a legendary Human for G/W and a werewolf for R/G. And I was thinking...this is it...until I saw the card. So it fits in with the mythic cycle of multi-colored non-Legendary creatures for DA but it doesn't seem like anything will fill the holes left in Innistrad. I kind of wonder why Mikaeus wasn't G/W instead of just white. Yeah, I know he's a cleric, but G/W (and moreso green) is THE color combination for creating +1/+1 counters without any stipulation (unlike B/R vampires where the creatures need to damage the opponent or kill a creature).
A G/R mythic legendary werewolf that transformed would be nice indeed. But it looks like we're not gonna get one at all. And I still see a lack of G/W among the mythics. Where's my G/W uber legendary human token/enhancement machine? 

My other thought is that Huntmaster of the Fells would have been perfect for the pre-release card, you know, if pre-release cards were still mythic. It was pretty awesome to show up for a pre-release tournament and get Ajani Vengeant, Wurmcoil Engine, Emrakul, or Sun Titan. Now we get standard transforming rares. Is that maybe because, like mythics, you're never guaranteed a rare transformer in a booster while you'll always get either mythic or normal rare?


Confirmed on Mark Rosewater's tumblr page, Mikaeus is part of the legendary cycle, and so is this card. Which means, yes, no GW mythic human lord, and no legendary werewolf lord. I'm mostly okay with Mikaeus (I don't mind him being mono-white. My only real problem is that they decided to make mono-white the "good" color, which is the biggest anti-twist possible). I do have a problem with the fact that the werewolf in the cycle isn't a legendary creature though.
They established a cycle of five cards, one for each tribe, each a legendary representing that tribe, each allowing a Commander deck for that tribe to be built. They established this with four cards, and promised us the fifth card in three months. And those three months passed, with the existence of the cycle, all four of which were legendaries, providing undeniable evidence that the fifth card in it would also be a legendary. That it would also be able to serve as a Commander for a werewolf deck. The single tribe that most needed it, since it was the new tribe!
And then, they get to Dark Ascension and say "Yep, we never SAID he was a legendary, just a mythic. Psych." No, Mark, you didn't say it would be a legendary. But the way cycles work, the way the human brain interprets patterns, clearly did say it would be a legendary. You didn't lie to us with words, but you cannot say you didn't lie to us at all.

MaRo has also confirmed on his tumblr that we will be getting no more mythic rare prerelease cards. I had thought that the last two had only been rares because there was only one mythic DFC, and they didn't want to devalue it. Apparently, the lack of mythic rare prerelease cards is scheduled to continue indefinitely. I am not happy about this.
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Huntmaster is so awesome

Oh, and a question: Is this our legendary werewolf, then? Because from where I'm sitting, it's not legendary...



That's exactly what I was thinking when I saw this. Innistrad had a tribal mythic semi-cycle of multicolored legendary creatures (Grimgrin (zombie), Olivia (vampire), Geist of St. Traft (spirit)) with nothing in Green/White or Red/Green. So I figured there would be a legendary Human for G/W and a werewolf for R/G. And I was thinking...this is it...until I saw the card. So it fits in with the mythic cycle of multi-colored non-Legendary creatures for DA but it doesn't seem like anything will fill the holes left in Innistrad. I kind of wonder why Mikaeus wasn't G/W instead of just white. Yeah, I know he's a cleric, but G/W (and moreso green) is THE color combination for creating +1/+1 counters without any stipulation (unlike B/R vampires where the creatures need to damage the opponent or kill a creature).
A G/R mythic legendary werewolf that transformed would be nice indeed. But it looks like we're not gonna get one at all. And I still see a lack of G/W among the mythics. Where's my G/W uber legendary human token/enhancement machine? 

My other thought is that Huntmaster of the Fells would have been perfect for the pre-release card, you know, if pre-release cards were still mythic. It was pretty awesome to show up for a pre-release tournament and get Ajani Vengeant, Wurmcoil Engine, Emrakul, or Sun Titan. Now we get standard transforming rares. Is that maybe because, like mythics, you're never guaranteed a rare transformer in a booster while you'll always get either mythic or normal rare?


Confirmed on Mark Rosewater's tumblr page, Mikaeus is part of the legendary cycle, and so is this card. Which means, yes, no GW mythic human lord, and no legendary werewolf lord. I'm mostly okay with Mikaeus (I don't mind him being mono-white. My only real problem is that they decided to make mono-white the "good" color, which is the biggest anti-twist possible). I do have a problem with the fact that the werewolf in the cycle isn't a legendary creature though.
They established a cycle of five cards, one for each tribe, each a legendary representing that tribe, each allowing a Commander deck for that tribe to be built. They established this with four cards, and promised us the fifth card in three months. And those three months passed, with the existence of the cycle, all four of which were legendaries, providing undeniable evidence that the fifth card in it would also be a legendary. That it would also be able to serve as a Commander for a werewolf deck. The single tribe that most needed it, since it was the new tribe!
And then, they get to Dark Ascension and say "Yep, we never SAID he was a legendary, just a mythic. Psych." No, Mark, you didn't say it would be a legendary. But the way cycles work, the way the human brain interprets patterns, clearly did say it would be a legendary. You didn't lie to us with words, but you cannot say you didn't lie to us at all.

MaRo has also confirmed on his tumblr that we will be getting no more mythic rare prerelease cards. I had thought that the last two had only been rares because there was only one mythic DFC, and they didn't want to devalue it. Apparently, the lack of mythic rare prerelease cards is scheduled to continue indefinitely. I am not happy about this.

Just because the Tribal "Legendary" Cycle didn't get completed this set doesn't mean it won't be in the final set. I could see them doing this because of how awkward it would be to have a legendary flip card that isn't a planeswalker.

With no DFCs in Avacyn Restored werewolves won't be flip cards anymore and just be perma-werewolf creatures ( I really can't see them taking out werewolves in the last set, they are most likely going to do this without the DFCs) Thus making it easy to make a Legendary Werewolf. Probably Skaharra or Ulrich, both alphas of powerful howlpacks. 

But what do I know, I'm not in development. Can only hope. 
One day, we might do double-faced cards again.


I sincerely hope not. I don't care how cool it is (and it's fairly cool), it's non-functional from a physical gameplay reality. Ya'll did the best you could but Transform is a bad mechanic, especially the werewolf ones, and it needs to be released into the wild, never seen from again.

Either make a digital game, or accept that there are physical limitations. 


@ Wizards: Please dont listen to this guy. Transform is a great mechanic!

~ Tim
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
One day, we might do double-faced cards again.


I sincerely hope not. I don't care how cool it is (and it's fairly cool), it's non-functional from a physical gameplay reality. Ya'll did the best you could but Transform is a bad mechanic, especially the werewolf ones, and it needs to be released into the wild, never seen from again.

Either make a digital game, or accept that there are physical limitations. 


@ Wizards: Please dont listen to this guy. Transform is a great mechanic!

~ Tim



I should only have to say that the mechanic that you enjoy is such that Wizards tells you you shouldn't put them into your deck. You know what that's called? Not having a single deck. It means you have to fudge around the mechanics of the game just to make a gimmick work, and let me tell you: just like Forsythe's recent feature article said, it was just a gimmick and it didn't wash over well. You can't push a square peg into a round hole -- and those cards are very square.
"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count." "Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969) "Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)
One day, we might do double-faced cards again.


I sincerely hope not. I don't care how cool it is (and it's fairly cool), it's non-functional from a physical gameplay reality. Ya'll did the best you could but Transform is a bad mechanic, especially the werewolf ones, and it needs to be released into the wild, never seen from again.

Either make a digital game, or accept that there are physical limitations. 


@ Wizards: Please dont listen to this guy. Transform is a great mechanic!

~ Tim



I'm curious: what do you think makes it a great mechanic? What positives exist about this mechanic that overcome the sheer physical design issues, the conditionality of the G/R cards, a conditionality similar to and demonstrated to be bad back in Odyssey block (the Punisher mechanic), the awkwardness of having to have extra cards or sleeves or both to deal with the issues this brings up including losing your cards or being unable to see all the data you need to make decisions as a player?

I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't like it and I do recognize that it's 'cool' but I've been playing this game for 18 years and this is one of the worst mechanics I've ever had to deal with so I really don't know why someone would love it. Flavor trumped design and Design 101 says that it should never be this way. So: what about this mechanic is great? Difficulty: It's flavorful cannot be part of the answer.

Card games have existed for hundreds of years with one uniform side and there are good reasons for that. Breaking that rule is one that has tremendous consequences and so far, those consequences have outweighed the benefits: this mechanic is, to me, what happens when you let The Glory Of Cool Things override The Real World, where people go out to stores, pubs, or kitchen tables and play the game.

Oh, and a question: Is this our legendary werewolf, then? Because from where I'm sitting, it's not legendary...



That's exactly what I was thinking when I saw this. Innistrad had a tribal mythic semi-cycle of multicolored legendary creatures (Grimgrin (zombie), Olivia (vampire), Geist of St. Traft (spirit)) with nothing in Green/White or Red/Green. So I figured there would be a legendary Human for G/W and a werewolf for R/G. And I was thinking...this is it...until I saw the card. So it fits in with the mythic cycle of multi-colored non-Legendary creatures for DA but it doesn't seem like anything will fill the holes left in Innistrad. I kind of wonder why Mikaeus wasn't G/W instead of just white. Yeah, I know he's a cleric, but G/W (and moreso green) is THE color combination for creating +1/+1 counters without any stipulation (unlike B/R vampires where the creatures need to damage the opponent or kill a creature).
A G/R mythic legendary werewolf that transformed would be nice indeed. But it looks like we're not gonna get one at all. And I still see a lack of G/W among the mythics. Where's my G/W uber legendary human token/enhancement machine? 

My other thought is that Huntmaster of the Fells would have been perfect for the pre-release card, you know, if pre-release cards were still mythic. It was pretty awesome to show up for a pre-release tournament and get Ajani Vengeant, Wurmcoil Engine, Emrakul, or Sun Titan. Now we get standard transforming rares. Is that maybe because, like mythics, you're never guaranteed a rare transformer in a booster while you'll always get either mythic or normal rare?


Confirmed on Mark Rosewater's tumblr page, Mikaeus is part of the legendary cycle, and so is this card. Which means, yes, no GW mythic human lord, and no legendary werewolf lord. I'm mostly okay with Mikaeus (I don't mind him being mono-white. My only real problem is that they decided to make mono-white the "good" color, which is the biggest anti-twist possible). I do have a problem with the fact that the werewolf in the cycle isn't a legendary creature though.
They established a cycle of five cards, one for each tribe, each a legendary representing that tribe, each allowing a Commander deck for that tribe to be built. They established this with four cards, and promised us the fifth card in three months. And those three months passed, with the existence of the cycle, all four of which were legendaries, providing undeniable evidence that the fifth card in it would also be a legendary. That it would also be able to serve as a Commander for a werewolf deck. The single tribe that most needed it, since it was the new tribe!
And then, they get to Dark Ascension and say "Yep, we never SAID he was a legendary, just a mythic. Psych." No, Mark, you didn't say it would be a legendary. But the way cycles work, the way the human brain interprets patterns, clearly did say it would be a legendary. You didn't lie to us with words, but you cannot say you didn't lie to us at all.

MaRo has also confirmed on his tumblr that we will be getting no more mythic rare prerelease cards. I had thought that the last two had only been rares because there was only one mythic DFC, and they didn't want to devalue it. Apparently, the lack of mythic rare prerelease cards is scheduled to continue indefinitely. I am not happy about this.

Just because the Tribal "Legendary" Cycle didn't get completed this set doesn't mean it won't be in the final set. I could see them doing this because of how awkward it would be to have a legendary flip card that isn't a planeswalker.

With no DFCs in Avacyn Restored werewolves won't be flip cards anymore and just be perma-werewolf creatures ( I really can't see them taking out werewolves in the last set, they are most likely going to do this without the DFCs) Thus making it easy to make a Legendary Werewolf. Probably Skaharra or Ulrich, both alphas of powerful howlpacks. 

But what do I know, I'm not in development. Can only hope. 



I confess that I, too, am disappointed that Huntmaster is not Legendary.  Part of the social contract that the cycle set up was that there was a legendary Zombie, Vampire, Spirit and Human and the werewolf was postponed to give the Mythic DFC slot to Garruk (when it really should have been Garruk in DKA and the Werewolf in ISD, IMO).  Werewolves, when resurrected for this block were explained to have been ignored for years becaus they wanted a good way to evoke the flavor, hence DFCs.  I would expect less than 5% of players would say they didn't expect the mythic Werewofl DFC to be a legend.  We all did, and we were all let down.  Even if they make a Legendary Werrewolf for AVR it won't be what we looked forward to.  I can't see having both sides be legendary be a big rules issue.  DFCs are already ruled to be a single entity, regarless fo which side is up.  Enchantments don't go away, counters stick around.  It's a one sentance addition to the CR to say that a DFC triggers the legend rule regardless of which face is up when another enters the battlefield (which is how it would intuitively work to anyone not trying to break the mechanic for no good reason).  The feel of the card is Legendary, the expectation was for legendary.  I would just like to know why they decided not to make it a legend.   

V/R

Treamayne

Commander Wiki - Casual Format Wiki (once they work again - link pending update)

I can't see having both sides be legendary be a big rules issue.  DFCs are already ruled to be a single entity, regarless fo which side is up.  Enchantments don't go away, counters stick around.  It's a one sentance addition to the CR to say that a DFC triggers the legend rule regardless of which face is up when another enters the battlefield

Actually, the way the Legend rule works, only two legendary permanents with the same name are mutually destroyed. Each side of a DFC on the battlefield has its own name (as well as other characteristics) and doesn't remember the name of the other side. DFCs only remain the same permanent in the way that a card like Dimir Doppelganger does. The name, color, stats, rules text etc. all change, but it's still the same card and thus counters and enchants stay on. So two copies of the same legendary DFC wouldn't know they were the same as long as they were on different faces.
However, since after just one transformation, all werewolves synch up, I can't see temporarily having two copies of the same legendary card on the battlefield being THAT big of a problem. No more so than having Kamahl, Fist of Krosa and Kamahl, Pit Fighter both out. So I still say they should have made it legendary. The werewolf tribe needs a Commander, and this was their big chance to get one.

To those saying it'll probably come in AVR, well, judging from how MaRo's talking about it on his tumblr, it really doesn't sound like it. I could be wrong, but I'm leaning towards us not getting a legendary werewolf at all this block. Still, I hope I'm wrong.
IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/c6f9e416e5e0e1f0a1e5c42b0c7b3e88.jpg?v=90000)
Yes, I understand the Legend rule, that's why I mentioned a one line add to the CR that since they already rules 2 sides of a DFC as the same entity it's a natural extrapolation to to say a DFC that is legendary on both sides suffers from teh legend rule regarless of which side is up when another ETB.


 It's a one sentance addition to the CR to say that a DFC triggers the legend rule regardless of which face is up when another enters the battlefield (which is how it would intuitively work to anyone not trying to break the mechanic for no good reason). 



Maybe they didn't want the huntmaster affected by clones?

V/R

Treamayne

Commander Wiki - Casual Format Wiki (once they work again - link pending update)