How long will 4E Last?

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So how long will 4E last?

3.5 has persisted, by way of comparison. So, how long will 4E last after the actual release of 5E?
Reviews Blog: thegrumpycelt.blogspot.com/ Image Gallery: grumpy-celt.deviantart.com/gallery/ --- Right, where was I...
forever for me. i mean i still play b/x so if i like a version of dnd, i keep playing it
People still play 1st, 2nd, Basic, etc - why should 4e be any different?  No one is burning my books - if 5e doesn't pan out to be anything I'm interested in, I'm sticking with 4e because I personally find it the most flexible system I have used outside of GURPS. 
Welcome to ZomboniLand - My D&D Blog http://zomboniland.blogspot.com/
I'd probably only stop playing 4e if the vast majority of people of I know that play switch to 5e.
I've got a 4e campaign that I started at level 1 and is now at level 17. I'd like to take it all the way to 30 using 4e if my group is willing. I DM another game at epic tier and really enjoy it so I'm looking forward to taking this group all the way to the finish.

But, if 5e does manage to keep the best parts of 4e and improve the bad bits, we might make the switch. It'll be a group decision. That being said, even we switch to 5e I will probably always play 4e off and on, just as I sometimes play 1e, 2e, and 3.x if the group wants to.
Without a proper OGL for 4th, I don't see a strong fan base backing of the edition once 5th is released.
Well our whole group is honestly annoyed that they're even doing 5th Ed now what with the underdeveloped classes and such of 4th.  We haven't really talked about it since most likely 5th wont be out for another year or so, but I have the feeling that while we'll buy the books we probably will continue playing 4th.  At least from my personal opinion there is plenty of 4th I haven't played yet; classes and races both.  So I don't want to stop until I've had a chance to really plumb the depths of 4th.

But all in all I'm sure like the other editions 4th will still continue to be played well after 5th has gone on, especially given how the economy is right now people might not be able to afford to buy the 5th ed books when they come out.  I know at least right now I'm jobless and broke so if 5th ed came out this year I most likely wouldn't be buying the books even if it seemed cool. 
My Books will last a very long time. I have plenty of 4E material to carry multiple campaigns for years, not to mention the adventures that I write myself. After the amount of money I have invested in 4E (I own every book, module and adventure from the 3 Core Books to the Dark Sun books - not even going to mention minis), I simply can't afford that kind of investment in a new edition and I truly am an example of the target demographic that WotC wants to purchase their books.

I'm pissed! I'm not getting on the DND Next bandwagon and everyone else that I have talked to seems to be in the same boat as me.
4e will last, for me, for as long as it takes there to be a better alternative. Pathfinder didn't do it, and I don't think DDN will either.

Of course, we'll likely have IKRPG Mk. II around the same time as DDN, so Privateer may make my "what books should I invest in?" decision for me. 
-m4ki; one down, one to go

"Retro is not new. Retro-fit is not new." --Seeker95, on why I won't be playing DDN

|| DDN Metrics (0-10) | enthusiasm: 1 | confidence in design: -3 | desire to play: 0 | Sticking with 4e?: Yep. | Better Options: IKRPG Mk II ||
The Five Things D&D Next Absolutely Must Not Do:
1. Imbalanced gameplay. Any and all characters must be able to contribute equally both in combat and out of combat at all levels of play. If the Fighters are linear and the Wizards quadratic, I walk. 2. Hardcore simulationist approach. D&D is a game about heroic fantasy. I'm weak and useless enough in real life; I play RPGs for a change of pace. If the only reason a rule exists is because "that's how it's supposed to be", I walk. I don't want a game that "simulates" real life, I want a game that simulates heroic fantasy. 3. Worshipping at false idols (AKA Sacred Cows). If the only reason a rule exists is "it's always been that way", I walk. Now to be clear, I have no problem with some things not changing; my issue is with retaining bad idea simply for the sake of nostalgia. 4. DM vs. players. If the game encourages "gotcha!" moments or treats the DM and players as enemies, adversaries, or problems to be overcome, I walk. 5. Rules for the sake of rules. The only thing I want rules for is the things I can't do sitting around a table with my friends. If the rules try to step on my ability to roleplay the character I want to roleplay, I walk. Furthermore, the rules serve to facilitate gameplay, not to simulate the world. NOTE: Items in red have been violated.
Chris Perkins' DM Survival Tips:
1. When in doubt, wing it. 2. Keep the story moving. Go with the flow. 3. Sometimes things make the best characters. 4. Always give players lots of things to do. 5. Wherever possible, say ‘yes.’ 6. Cheating is largely unnecessary. 7. Don't be afraid to give the characters a fun new toy. 8. Don't get in the way of a good players exchange. 9. Avoid talking too much. 10. Save some details for later. 11. Be transparent. 12. Don't show all your cards. Words to live by.
Quotes From People Smarter Than Me:
"Essentials zigged, when I wanted to continue zagging..." -Foxface on Essentials "Servicing a diverse fan base with an RPG ruleset - far from being the mandate for 'open design space' and a cavalier attitude towards balance - requires creating a system that /works/, with minimal fuss, for a wide variety of play styles, not just from one group to the next, but at the same table." -Tony_Vargas on design "Mearls' and Cook's stated intent to produce an edition that fans of all previous editions (and Pathfinder) will like more than their current favourite edition is laudable. But it is also, IMO, completely unrealistic. It's like people who pray for world peace: I might share their overall aims, but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for them to succeed. When they talk in vague terms about what they'd like to do in this new edition, I mostly find myself thinking 'hey, that sounds cool, assuming they can pull it off', but almost every time they've said something specific about actual mechanics, I've found myself wincing and shaking my head in disbelief and/or disgust, either straight away or after thinking about the obvious implications for half a minute." -Duskweaver on D&D Next
Look how active this forum is compared to the the 5e forums. 
4e is already dead, folks're already dancing and spitting on its grave.

Want to see the best of 4e included in 5e?  Join the Old Guard of 4e.

5e really needs something like Wrecan's SARN-FU to support "Theatre of the Mind."

"You want The Tooth?  You can't handle The Tooth!"  - Dahlver-Nar.

"If magic is unrestrained in the campaign, D&D quickly degenerates into a weird wizard show where players get bored quickly"  - E. Gary Gygax

 

 

Oops, looks like this request tried to create an infinite loop. We do not allow such things here. We are a professional website!

Just announced at D&D XP...

No D&D Next products in 2012, only 4e. Nothing about 2013 of course.

There's not surprise here, just confirmation that 4e has a minimum of 12 months left in it. There's still some exciting products coming out to keep me buying and playing.

I just hope they wrap up 4e nicely and finish all of the necessary erratta and class support so the game can be left in as stable a form as possible.
Look how active this forum is compared to the the 5e forums. 
4e is already dead, folks're already dancing and spitting on its grave.



There is definitely a feeling that 4e is on the countdown. It's funny how 20 days can make such a big difference in the life of an internet forum. The 4e general forum is a ghostland compared to what it was just one month ago.

I should say, however, that there's still a lot of 4e support on the D&D Next forums. Not everyone is dancing and spitting.
4e general being a ghostland is great, no more trolling crapola that made up the majority of the posts. the best thing that ever happened to 4e gd is d&d next

ps 4e is forever
4e general being a ghostland is great, no more trolling crapola that made up the majority of the posts. the best thing that ever happened to 4e gd is d&d next

ps 4e is forever


+1
Owner and Proprietor of the House of Trolls. God of ownership and possession.
Without a proper OGL for 4th, I don't see a strong fan base backing of the edition once 5th is released.


Meh, I don't know that 4e will see it's own Pathfinder (especially since most 4e fans don't see the need for as many fixes as 3e required), but people can still play it and publishers can still produce supplements for it. But of course how many people convert to 5e will matter greatly in determining how viable the 4e market will be.
Owner and Proprietor of the House of Trolls. God of ownership and possession.
There's not surprise here, just confirmation that 4e has a minimum of 12 months left in it. There's still some exciting products coming out to keep me buying and playing.

I just hope they wrap up 4e nicely and finish all of the necessary erratta and class support so the game can be left in as stable a form as possible.

^This.

I've got a 4e campaign that I started at level 1 and is now at level 17. I'd like to take it all the way to 30 using 4e if my group is willing....




Keep going and good luck!

My party just hit 19 this last week and we're making a push for 30 as well.  They started at Lv. 1... I.. I'm just so proud of them (sniff)Cry
Without a proper OGL for 4th, I don't see a strong fan base backing of the edition once 5th is released.


I don't see why someone couldn't use the 3e OGL to make a 4e clone the way OSRIC used the 3e OGL to make a AD&D clone.  The biggest problem would be you that if the 4e DDi is turned off, you'll be playing 4e without electronic support.
Without a proper OGL for 4th, I don't see a strong fan base backing of the edition once 5th is released.

Nonsense... there was no OGL for Original Recipe, Basic, 1st or 2nd Editions and yet fans of those games are still playing them. Those gamers have been surviving for more than a decade without an ounce of official support for their preferred game system.

Why would 4E be any different?

Sure, WotC will probably pull the DDi stuff eventually, but only a fraction of people who bought the books ever used those anyway. It IS possible to play the game without access to DDi. I'm the only member of the two D&D campaigns I'm in who even has a subscription to it (and even then I only use the character builder for reference since I prefer the layout of my homemade sheets) while our DM prefers to copy the monsters stats she plans to use from the books BY HAND into her game notes (she used to just read them out of the books, but found that writing them out helped her to get familiar with all their abilities).

By the same token, there exist an array of unofficial tools (character/monster builders, map tools, GM aids, etc.) and content for ALL the prior editions out there despite their not being an OGL that specifically covers them. The GSL isn't going to stop individual fans from posting their own ideas for 4E powers, feats, items, monster designs, and so forth on their websites/blogs and ALL those things are just a google search away.

The ONLY way you wouldn't see some portion of the fanbase hold onto 4E after the release of 5E is if the new edition was just a cleanup of the 4E ruleset... and that's NOT what we're hearing about 5E at all.

For all their claims of "One D&D to rule them all" 5E is just going to fracture the base even further. The people who still play 0E, 1E, and 2E aren't going to switch... they've been happy with what they already have for a decade. The people who love 4E are going to do the same (some already do... there's already a subset of 4E players who use only Pre-E material). Meanwhile the people who still play 3E have Pathfinder to supply everything they'd need.

That leaves only dissatisfied 4E players and new blood as a potential market. 4E already tried the "new blood" approach and it clearly was NOT sufficient to appease their Hasbro Overlords... yet they think a system designed more to appeal to the grognards will appeal where 4E failed?

Another factor I don't think WotC/Hasbro has considered is that, by continuing to shorten the lifespan of their D&D editions, they also discourage people who are not absolutely enthusiastic about the new system from buying into it. After all... if you don't like it, its not like you'll have to wait another decade for another edition that might be more to your liking... you just need to hold out for 2-5 years (our low-level campaign probably won't even be into epic tier by then).

Of course, I have no illusions that if 5E does poorly Hasbro would likely decide to just shelve the licence for a decade instead of going for a 6E... but that just means that Hasbro will care even LESS what random fans are putting up on the internet from 4E (at least not any more than they care about random fans putting up artwork or fanfics based on their other properties... which seems to be "not at all").

tl;dr ... for those who love 4E for what 4E is (especially the pre-E version) I expect it to stick around just as long as all the other previous versions of D&D have (i.e. for at least the lifespan of the gamers who cut their teeth on the edition).
In addition to what Chris has said, I'd like to point out that this is The Internet, and that the time between WotC pulling the plug on 4e DDI tools and someone releasing a fan-made system to replace it will be measured in hours.
-m4ki; one down, one to go

"Retro is not new. Retro-fit is not new." --Seeker95, on why I won't be playing DDN

|| DDN Metrics (0-10) | enthusiasm: 1 | confidence in design: -3 | desire to play: 0 | Sticking with 4e?: Yep. | Better Options: IKRPG Mk II ||
The Five Things D&D Next Absolutely Must Not Do:
1. Imbalanced gameplay. Any and all characters must be able to contribute equally both in combat and out of combat at all levels of play. If the Fighters are linear and the Wizards quadratic, I walk. 2. Hardcore simulationist approach. D&D is a game about heroic fantasy. I'm weak and useless enough in real life; I play RPGs for a change of pace. If the only reason a rule exists is because "that's how it's supposed to be", I walk. I don't want a game that "simulates" real life, I want a game that simulates heroic fantasy. 3. Worshipping at false idols (AKA Sacred Cows). If the only reason a rule exists is "it's always been that way", I walk. Now to be clear, I have no problem with some things not changing; my issue is with retaining bad idea simply for the sake of nostalgia. 4. DM vs. players. If the game encourages "gotcha!" moments or treats the DM and players as enemies, adversaries, or problems to be overcome, I walk. 5. Rules for the sake of rules. The only thing I want rules for is the things I can't do sitting around a table with my friends. If the rules try to step on my ability to roleplay the character I want to roleplay, I walk. Furthermore, the rules serve to facilitate gameplay, not to simulate the world. NOTE: Items in red have been violated.
Chris Perkins' DM Survival Tips:
1. When in doubt, wing it. 2. Keep the story moving. Go with the flow. 3. Sometimes things make the best characters. 4. Always give players lots of things to do. 5. Wherever possible, say ‘yes.’ 6. Cheating is largely unnecessary. 7. Don't be afraid to give the characters a fun new toy. 8. Don't get in the way of a good players exchange. 9. Avoid talking too much. 10. Save some details for later. 11. Be transparent. 12. Don't show all your cards. Words to live by.
Quotes From People Smarter Than Me:
"Essentials zigged, when I wanted to continue zagging..." -Foxface on Essentials "Servicing a diverse fan base with an RPG ruleset - far from being the mandate for 'open design space' and a cavalier attitude towards balance - requires creating a system that /works/, with minimal fuss, for a wide variety of play styles, not just from one group to the next, but at the same table." -Tony_Vargas on design "Mearls' and Cook's stated intent to produce an edition that fans of all previous editions (and Pathfinder) will like more than their current favourite edition is laudable. But it is also, IMO, completely unrealistic. It's like people who pray for world peace: I might share their overall aims, but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for them to succeed. When they talk in vague terms about what they'd like to do in this new edition, I mostly find myself thinking 'hey, that sounds cool, assuming they can pull it off', but almost every time they've said something specific about actual mechanics, I've found myself wincing and shaking my head in disbelief and/or disgust, either straight away or after thinking about the obvious implications for half a minute." -Duskweaver on D&D Next