Orc Race D&D 4E

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Orc Race D&D 4E

So, I figured that there really isn't an Orc race around in 4E, so I decided to make one, basically, as best I could but still represent the orcs in 4E and whatnot. So, here it is!

Average Height: 5´ 6˝–6´ 6˝
Average Weight: 155-250 lb
Ability Scores: +2 Con, +2 Str or +2 Wisdom
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Low-light
Languages: Common, Giant
Skill Bonuses: +2 Athletics, +2 Intimidate
Running Charge: When you charge, add 2 to your speed.
Warrior’s surge: You have the warriors surge power

Warrior's Surge
Spilling the blood of your enemy invigorates you.
Encounter ✦ Healing
Free Action
Attack: None
Encounter Healing

Free Action Personal

Effect: Declare the use of this power. If the next attack you make this round hits, you can spend a healing surge.

 


Feats
Savage Heart
Prerequisites: Orc
Benefit: You gain proficiency and a +1 feat bonus to damage rolls with Axes.

 

Blood Lust?- Nameless feat
Prerequisites: Orc
Benefit: You gain proficiency and a +1 feat bonus to damage rolls with Axes.

 

 

newstuff

Orc Race D&D 4E

This is a new and improved version! I guess I'll list the reason for my stuff in a bit.

Average Height: 6'0˝–6´ 8˝
Average Weight: 200-300 lb
Ability Scores: +2 Con, +2 Str or +2 Wisdom
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Low-light
Languages: Common, Giant
Skill Bonuses: +2 Endurance +2 Intimidate
Fearsome Charge: When you make a charge attack, add +2 to your attack roll.

Warrior’s surge: You have the warriors surge power

Beserker's Wind: You gain a +2 to all saving throws.


Warrior's Surge
Spilling the blood of your enemy invigorates you.
Encounter ✦ Healing
Free Action
Attack: None
Encounter Healing

Free Action: Personal
 

Trigger: You target an enemy with an attack.
Effect: If the triggering attack hits you can spend a healing surge to regain hit points equal to your healing surge value.



Feats
Savage Heart
Prerequisites: Orc
Benefit: You gain proficiency and a +1/+2/+3 feat bonus to damage rolls with Axes.

 

Warrior's Vigor
Prerequisites: Orc
Benefit:
When you use your Warrior's Surge ability, you gain 5 temporary hitpoints.

 

 

+2 Wisdom for an orc?  I understand why you went there, but it feels odd.
+2 Wisdom for an orc?  I understand why you went there, but it feels odd.



Well, Shamans and other primal classes tend to use wisdom, intelligence can be questionable for an orc but I imagine wisdom isn't as much, for tribal leaders and chieftans and shamans and whatnot.

I thought of Dex, but I figured that half-orcs go that route and that also Orcs don't seem very dexterious.


On the other hand, they would thematically fit into other positions, such as rangers or rogues, but then again I don't know how thematic that is for an orc, who is usually up close and personal in melee combat.

I figure the second stat could be bounced around a bit, but idk.
This might be better places either on the Races forum or on the Homebrew forum.

Ability Scores: +2 Con, +2 Str or +2 Wisdom

Really? CON primary and not STR? Interesting choice. Nothing wrong with it, of course, just unexpected. It's a bit disappointing to see somebody else go with WIS, though. I personally think CHA would be better. Nothing says Intimidate better than CHA.

Running Charge: When you charge, add 2 to your speed.
This should be removed. It's just too narrow of a feature. If you play anything other than a STR-primary, weapon-using, melee class, then this feature is dead weight, and that's bad. More general features that can be used by characters regardless of their class or role are strictly preferable.

Warrior’s surge:
You have the warriors surge power

Warrior's Surge
Spilling the blood of your enemy invigorates you.
Encounter ✦ Healing
Standard Action
Attack: None
Encounter Healing

Free Action Personal

Effect: Declare the use of this power. If the next attack you make this round hits, you can spend a healing surge.

This power makes no sense. It's a standard action but only affects the next attack you make this round? You don't have to say that it has no attack. Wait, now it's a free action? Let me see if I can clear this up...

Warrior's Surge
Encounter * Healing
Minor Action, Personal
Effect: If you hit with the next attack roll that you make before the end of your turn, then you can spend a healing surge.

Honestly, I feel like it's underpowered. Really, the race in general is underpowered.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
This might be better places either on the Races forum or on the Homebrew forum.

Ability Scores: +2 Con, +2 Str or +2 Wisdom

Really? CON primary and not STR? Interesting choice. Nothing wrong with it, of course, just unexpected. It's a bit disappointing to see somebody else go with WIS, though. I personally think CHA would be better. Nothing says Intimidate better than CHA.

Running Charge: When you charge, add 2 to your speed.

This should be removed. It's just too narrow of a feature. If you play anything other than a STR-primary, weapon-using, melee class, then this feature is dead weight, and that's bad. More general features that can be used by characters regardless of their class or role are strictly preferable.

Warrior’s surge:
You have the warriors surge power

Warrior's Surge
Spilling the blood of your enemy invigorates you.
Encounter ✦ Healing
Standard Action
Attack: None
Encounter Healing

Free Action Personal

Effect: Declare the use of this power. If the next attack you make this round hits, you can spend a healing surge.

This power makes no sense. It's a standard action but only affects the next attack you make this round? You don't have to say that it has no attack. Wait, now it's a free action? Let me see if I can clear this up...

Warrior's Surge
Encounter * Healing
Minor Action, Personal
Effect: If you hit with the next attack roll that you make before the end of your turn, then you can spend a healing surge.

Honestly, I feel like it's underpowered. Really, the race in general is underpowered.


Well, I figured it could be Str primary, but Con primary is just like all those other weird races; plus, then they would make good clerics and paladins, which doesn't really make as much sense.

As far as charges go, it is kind of limiting, but I'm not really going for the best decked out race here; Dwarves have basically useless throwing hammer profiencies and whatnot.


As far as the action goes, spending a healing surge in the middle of combat instead of it being a standard action with your second wind is pretty powerful imo.

But idk. Tongue Out


Also, usually races have TWO racial abilities, such as Half-orcs having 5 temp hitpoints and 1[W] damage, and goliaths being able to re-roll athletics rolls and having resist 5, and Elves being able to shift through terrain but also getting to re-roll, and I suppose it's possible to add something like that to Orcs.

*Also, Typo on dah standard action thing.
Looking at the orc statblocks in Monster Vault, the '+2 speed when charging' feature is actually something only the dedicated melee fighters get. The one feature that unites all the orcs in that book is the ability to take a standard action as a free action when dropped to 0hp. Because it's any standard action rather than specifically a melee basic attack (*cough*minotaur*cough*), it doesn't pigeonhole them as melee-only.
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Looking at the orc statblocks in Monster Vault, the '+2 speed when charging' feature is actually something only the dedicated melee fighters get. The one feature that unites all the orcs in that book is the ability to take a standard action as a free action when dropped to 0hp. Because it's any standard action rather than specifically a melee basic attack (*cough*minotaur*cough*), it doesn't pigeonhole them as melee-only.



Herm...

But yes, it does make them a lot like a minotaur in that regard.


I suppose, but I thought it was that healing surge value thing that connecte them all.

/shrug


Interesting though.
None of the source material shows any sign of a bonus to Wisdom as reasonable.  I do see in the Threats to Nentir Vale reason to believe charisma would be possible.  After reviewing the books my position is that the orc should be primary Str with secondary Con or Cha.

If this makes them potentially good clerics or paladins that makes perfect sense.  They should be good paladins or clerics of their god Gruumsh.   
None of the source material shows any sign of a bonus to Wisdom as reasonable.  I do see in the Threats to Nentir Vale reason to believe charisma would be possible.  After reviewing the books my position is that the orc should be primary Str with secondary Con or Cha.

If this makes them potentially good clerics or paladins that makes perfect sense.  They should be good paladins or clerics of their god Gruumsh.   



Well, if you say so.

I don't neccesarily think that Orcs are known to be the Charismatic type but...


Wisdom makes sense for tribal reasons.

Charisma would open up a lot of cool stuff for them though, like paladins (not really clerics) and sorcerers, as well as differant options among some classes (like thaneborn Barbarian) so that would be awesome.


I don't think that wisdom is too far out there though; again, Shamans and whatnot, or a tribal chieftan or something.

They aren't just mindless peons all the time, I imagine religion is rather prevalant, but I do see them living in less advanced societies, not neccesarily one with nature by heavily involved in nature, which is where the whole tribal thing comes from.
None of the source material shows any sign of a bonus to Wisdom as reasonable.  I do see in the Threats to Nentir Vale reason to believe charisma would be possible.  After reviewing the books my position is that the orc should be primary Str with secondary Con or Cha.

If this makes them potentially good clerics or paladins that makes perfect sense.  They should be good paladins or clerics of their god Gruumsh.   



Well, if you say so.

I don't neccesarily think that Orcs are known to be the Charismatic type but...


Wisdom makes sense for tribal reasons.

Charisma would open up a lot of cool stuff for them though, like paladins (not really clerics) and sorcerers, as well as differant options among some classes (like thaneborn Barbarian) so that would be awesome.


I don't think that wisdom is too far out there though; again, Shamans and whatnot, or a tribal chieftan or something.

They aren't just mindless peons all the time, I imagine religion is rather prevalant, but I do see them living in less advanced societies, not neccesarily one with nature by heavily involved in nature, which is where the whole tribal thing comes from.



The reason I say Wis doesn't make sense is look at all the orcs in MM, MV, and MV:TttNV.  None of them have a Wis score that appears boosted in anyway.  I would say overal Cha seems awful, but then you look at clanblood spear in MV:TttNV.  Both leaders of the tribe appear to have a boosted Cha.  It may not be typical of an Orc, but I don't see any instance of a boosted Wis among any of the monster entries, thats why I say Cha makes more sense.  I would also say since they live in less andvanced societies wouldn't that reflect a lack of both Int and Wis? Atleast as racial bonuses.
None of the source material shows any sign of a bonus to Wisdom as reasonable.  I do see in the Threats to Nentir Vale reason to believe charisma would be possible.  After reviewing the books my position is that the orc should be primary Str with secondary Con or Cha.

If this makes them potentially good clerics or paladins that makes perfect sense.  They should be good paladins or clerics of their god Gruumsh.   



Well, if you say so.

I don't neccesarily think that Orcs are known to be the Charismatic type but...


Wisdom makes sense for tribal reasons.

Charisma would open up a lot of cool stuff for them though, like paladins (not really clerics) and sorcerers, as well as differant options among some classes (like thaneborn Barbarian) so that would be awesome.


I don't think that wisdom is too far out there though; again, Shamans and whatnot, or a tribal chieftan or something.

They aren't just mindless peons all the time, I imagine religion is rather prevalant, but I do see them living in less advanced societies, not neccesarily one with nature by heavily involved in nature, which is where the whole tribal thing comes from.



The reason I say Wis doesn't make sense is look at all the orcs in MM, MV, and MV:TttNV.  None of them have a Wis score that appears boosted in anyway.  I would say overal Cha seems awful, but then you look at clanblood spear in MV:TttNV.  Both leaders of the tribe appear to have a boosted Cha.  It may not be typical of an Orc, but I don't see any instance of a boosted Wis among any of the monster entries, thats why I say Cha makes more sense.  I would also say since they live in less andvanced societies wouldn't that reflect a lack of both Int and Wis? Atleast as racial bonuses.



Well wisdom is an age thing almost; you live out in the forest and you gain tons of wisdom, you study all the time and you gain intelligence.

It's more like being a sage or a person who learns from experiance.


More so than intelligence which is studying pretty much; all one with nature types seem to have wisdom, like Goliaths, Elves, Minotaurs etc. but it's possible that they are Charisma.

There do seem to be some more Charisma based type Orcs, and Warlords, Sorcerers, Warlocks, and even paladins come around, which is fitting.


It does make sense.

Also, I was thinking about throwing a +1 to will up there somewhere.

As far as charges go, it is kind of limiting, but I'm not really going for the best decked out race here...

Not relevant whatsoever. If you want to make an overpowered or underpowered race and you state that intention, then whatever, but the race's power level is a completely separate function from its design quality. The charge feature is a design quality problem, not a power level problem.

Dwarves have basically useless throwing hammer profiencies and whatnot.

This charge feature and the Dwarf weapon proficiency are not in any way equivalent. The Dwarf feature is a fluff feature that provides no real benefit to anybody, so it doesn't pigeon-hole anybody. This charge feature, on the other hand, does offer real benefit to a large number of characters but not to another large number of characters, and that does pigeon-hole.

As far as the action goes, spending a healing surge in the middle of combat instead of it being a standard action with your second wind is pretty powerful imo.

Compare to the Dwarf's power. It lets you spend a healing surge as a minor action, doesn't have any chance to fail like your power, and even gives you an extra bonus to all of your defenses until the end of your next turn.

Also, usually races have TWO racial abilities, such as Half-orcs having 5 temp hitpoints and 1[W] damage, and goliaths being able to re-roll athletics rolls and having resist 5, and Elves being able to shift through terrain but also getting to re-roll, and I suppose it's possible to add something like that to Orcs.

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Races do not "usually have TWO abilities". That's absurd. Just crack open your PHB. The races with the fewest amount of features are the Dragonborn and Halfling, and even they have three, two passives features plus a power. Even the races you point out have more than you say. Half-Orcs also get low-light and a charge bonus, goliaths also have a Will bonus, and Elves get a group perception bonus and bonus speed.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
Didn't we already do this?
I'll read it when I've got more time. 

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg)

Look at my Playable Illithid, my Monster Generating excel file , my Lifestealer in progresss (Heroic tier almost complete!) , our Improved Orc, our Improving Kenku and our Improving Duergar
Also, take a look at my friend's Improved Minotaur, Gadren's amazing Arcane Archer and of course the Avatar Project
More links! Qube's Block Builder, Classless D&D and the characters I've created using the classless system.
Running Charge is not a good racial feature for all of the reasons stated, and more. Here are a few alternatives that are useful to all builds;
- You gain a +2 bonus to speed when charging or running.
- You gain a +2 bonus to speed as long as you move toward an enemy.
- You ignore difficult terrain when charging or running.
- You ignore difficult terrain as long as as you move toward an enemy.

Savage Heart is a terrible feat. The damage bonus needs to scale, and the feat needs to spell out that it does grant proficiency with all axes. See Dwarven Weapon Training.

Co-author on AoA 2-3 and 4-1.

We already did this last year.

 Here's the link, complete with newely updated (albeit, unnamed) feats!

We discussed this through-and-through and found that what we have really catches the flavour and playing experience of the fearsome orc. 

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg)

Look at my Playable Illithid, my Monster Generating excel file , my Lifestealer in progresss (Heroic tier almost complete!) , our Improved Orc, our Improving Kenku and our Improving Duergar
Also, take a look at my friend's Improved Minotaur, Gadren's amazing Arcane Archer and of course the Avatar Project
More links! Qube's Block Builder, Classless D&D and the characters I've created using the classless system.
Ability Scores: It does feel weird giving Orcs a positive mental stat, but I would also go with Wisdom. It certainly fits with the Eberron themed Orc. I guess I support Con as primary as it can help diversify the class selection a bit.

Skill Bonuses: I like to think of Orcs as living in terrible conditions, generally, needing to be hardy creatures. I propose +2 Endurance and Intimidate.

Running Charge: You could make this a feat somehow. I agree thats its not a very strong racial feature.

Warrior's Surge: I think this is fine, but take a look at the wording. Make it better.

Something else: To go along with the idea that orcs live in terrible conditions and somehow become more hardy, you could give them Poision resistance, a Poison save bonus (like dwarves), or some other save bonus - maybe +2 to slowed and immobilize.

Savage Heart: This is less powerful than the dwarven equivalent. Not only is it one weapon group, but it is a mere +1 to damage. Is making all axes high crit too powerful? Maybe a Heroic feat to grant +1d6 on a crit with any attack.
I suggest the player wanting to play this race asks his DM if I can pick two of the follow racial stats to complement his character: Strength, Constitution, Dexterity, Wisdom and Charisma. It is only a homebrew after all (which is essentially "official stuff fixed by DMs". What's wrong with a DM fixing what other DMs have already fixed?).

Make running charge into "Combat Spring" which can be used while charging or running: You gain a +2 bonus to speed while running or charging.
Ontop of that you can add a feat that removes penalties for running to make it more appealing.

Endurance and Intimidate is a no-brainer.

Make Warrior's surge a Free Action, Trigger: You target an enemy with an at-will power.
This makes it work for all classes, melee or non-melee.

Half-orcs gain 5 THP when bloodied, and that feature must've come from somehwhere (it's definetly not human!). I always see orcs as regular folks, until they're provoked. Then they get all savage and "rawr". It's very appropriate IMO to have the orc gain 5 THP per tier when he first rolls damage in an encounter. It's a feature that mirrors their enthusiasm and savage-ness in combat. I feel that this is the same flavour as for the half-orc, but the half-orc's savage nature doesn't appear as quickly as with the pure-orcs.

 

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg)

Look at my Playable Illithid, my Monster Generating excel file , my Lifestealer in progresss (Heroic tier almost complete!) , our Improved Orc, our Improving Kenku and our Improving Duergar
Also, take a look at my friend's Improved Minotaur, Gadren's amazing Arcane Archer and of course the Avatar Project
More links! Qube's Block Builder, Classless D&D and the characters I've created using the classless system.

So, this is just me messing around again.

When I changed stuff, I did it to try to be unique but be very similiar to the orcish stuff.

So, basically, I added a feat, Warrior's Vigor, that when you use Warrior's Surge you gain 5 temporary hit points, that problably scales. While the OTHER weapon profiency feat is worse than the Dwarven one, Goliath Greatweapon profiency is also pretty crappy, providing a +2 to all two-handed simple and military weapons, but not superior weapons, which are more or less a must if you want to do a large amount of competitive damage. A dwarf or a mul gets axes and hammers profiency, both one and two-handed. So Dwarven weapon proficiency has always been OP. So, I figured, axes, including superior, and +1 is stretching it a bit.

As for charging, yes, it is pretty class specific, but all races are very class specific, with their abilities and such; elves get long bow profiency, which is more or less useless for some classes, eladrin's get like a long sword. There are ones with trained skills in arcana and all kinds of things; the very racial bonuses themselves are fundamentally class specific. Perhaps even roleplaying wise, you are class typed into a group based on your race from the very beggining. However, I would problably allow any random combination of stats, basically, any modifier you want for any race. I feel this opens up more options and makes more races and class types more playable without having to worry about silly mechanics.

As well, the stats are more or less con and str and wis, but I might change it to Str and Con/wis. The reason for the original stuff was the weird stat bases used in D&D to begin with. I mean, okay, you're a dragon, what do you get? Charisma and Con or Charima and strength. Awkward, considering Strength and Con would seem like a natural choice right; Dragons being naturally strong, not, Charismatic, seeing as how they're, idk, freaking dragons. Or Dwarf Con Str/Wis, I mean, Str and Wis isn't a natural for paladins, right? Anyways. The stats are weird. The reason I might do Str Wis/con is more or less while con and Str/wis is weird, it's always been the dwarf stats, so it's not particularly unique. But, these guys are predominately based on toughness, so con being their primary stat makes sense, like how half orcs are dex as their primary.

As for charging, I changed it to +2 to hit. I didn't want it to be like the Half-orc, which plus two to speed is pretty much the same thing, simply becuase I didn't want it to just be a copy, and also becuase Half-orcs seem to be more about speed; strength and dex, good rogues and such, outcasts of society. Hardy, but very fast. Orcs seem much more like the hard hitting but slow type, so I figure, +2 to hit might be okay; this might be a little bit op though. It would make them particularly good at ambushes, good at surprise attacks, but idk. It could be +2/3 or something to damage rolls, instead.

Finally, I added the still questionable +2 to saving rolls. To me, this seems slightly OP and under powered at the same time. +1 to all saving rolls would be okay, but then a little weak. I was looking through races, and saw +5 to poison with dwarves, +5 to fear with halflings, +5 to charm with eladrins, and I thought, what would a really hardy race have? I figured an additive to all saving throws would be pretty powerful. It's not as bad as like, +2 to will or fortitude or something, but it's still not super powerful as to where it's something unreasonable. I still think orcs are a little under powered, but goliaths have to activate stone's endurance in a premptive attempt to lower 5 damage, where as Half-orcs can pop a 1[W] or a D8 any time they feel like, which is like 4.5-6.5 damage easy on average; they can even decide to tack it on to a crit, getting an extra 12 damage, after the crit is rolled. So yeah, it's a little under powered. They usually are. xP

So there you have it.

The other orcs seems to be a bit more fleshed out so this is more silly than anything.

 

Whether orcs should have the option of charisma or wisdom is mostly up to campaign setting I think, for the standard D&D orcs as presented in the monster manual I don't see wisdom being a very good choice, as for orcs being shamans, I don't think that makes much sense either, the standard D&D orcs don't care for the natural world or primal spirits, they serve Gruumsh, so an orc 'shaman' would most likely be a cleric/paladin/blackguard of Gruumsh rather than belonging to the shaman class.

As for the rules design itself:

Berserker's Wind: This one is VERY powerful, personally I'd change it to something like: +2 to saves vs slowed, immobilised or restrained condition / make a saving throw as a free action when you use Second Wind / +1 or +2 to saving throws while bloodied.

Warrior's Surge: One thing to note about this power is that it actually is most powerful in the hands of a controller, the whole 'if triggering attack hits' thing is poor wording for a racial power, because if triggering attack is a fireball you can be damn sure it's gonna hit something, whereas if you're a fighter and have only taken single-target powers it becomes highly unreliable.

I would change it to the following:

Warrior's Surge

Spilling the blood of your enemy invigorates you.
Encounter ✦ Healing
Free Action     Personal
Trigger: You hit a creature with an attack.
Effect: You may spend a healing surge.

It's also worth noting about this version of the orc racial is actually pretty powerful, I'd take that over most other racials out there, so you should be careful pumping the power of the orc's other features.

Fearsome Charge: As others have noted, fearsome charge is very useful for some classes, completely useless for others, as it is now, it still is, furthermore the +2 to attack roll version of it becomes horribly overpowered when combined with an optimised charge build (where you aim to charge pretty much every turn), personally I'd remake Fearsome Charge into a racial feat instead, that way the feature becomes a nice boon for orc warriors without being deadweight for orc spellcasters

I actually agree with all your stuffsz, except that Orc Shamans are in the monster manual and stuff, and they are seen as very tribal, so they'd have some tribal stuff; like an orc storm shaman.

They might be more Charisma based though, I guess that might help them be sorcerers, which are more chaotic/evil. Also to be warlocks.