priority ?s and some hexproof help

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Hi i am no stranger to this game but my only real reference is a 1999 DCI tourny rule book, which i know most of which is outdated and the magic  arcade games for the 360.

I first have some questions as to using specifically this : [C]Gideon's Lawkeeper[/C] 

I understand that in order to use the ; ability that i must have priority, my real question is when is the earliest time that priority may be given to be during my opponents turn in order to use such an ability benefically.  

So what i need to know is must i wait for my opponent to put a spell on the stack or is there another action my opponent can do to allow me to activiate the ability before combat?



Hexprrof

During a dual the other night when these questions came about i attacked with [C]Dungrove Elder[/C] and my opponent decided to let it go unblocked in order to use [C]Vengeful Pharaoh[/C]'s graveyard ability which was in the graveyard prior to the combat phase. 

We had a misunderstanding as to how an ability the resovlves from the graveyard to effect a hexproof creature that is on the battlefield.

I do not know if by having it in the graveyard is out of the control of the player as if the graveyard is controled by the player than the answer is very simple and Dungrove Elder is an illegal target for this ability.

it is more honestly a question of zones and the control behind such zones.
All players much pass priority on an empty stack for the game to move on to the next step/phase.  The earliest this happens is during the Upkeep Step.

Hexproof has nothing to do with zones though Hexproof only functions while it is on the battlefield).  Hexproof means that premanent "cannot be the target of spells or abilities your opponent's control".  It doesn't matter what zone that ability is coming from.
DCI Level 1 Judge Please autocard: [c]Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon[/c] = Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon [c=Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon]Skittles[/c] = Skittles Cards do what they say they do. No more. No less.
Hi i am no stranger to this game but my only real reference is a 1999 DCI tourny rule book,


No it's not. ;)

wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Resources.aspx?x=m...



I first have some questions as to using specifically this : [C]Gideon's Lawkeeper[/C] 

I understand that in order to use the ; ability that i must have priority, my real question is when is the earliest time that priority may be given to be during my opponents turn in order to use such an ability benefically.  

So what i need to know is must i wait for my opponent to put a spell on the stack or is there another action my opponent can do to allow me to activiate the ability before combat?


Generally, no step or phase can end without both players passing priority while the stack is empty.
No player gets priority in the Untap step.
The active player (i.e. the one whose turn it is) gets priority first in each step.
Turn based actions (draw a card in the Draw step, declaring attackers in the Declare Attackers step, declaring blockers in the Declare Blockers step, etc) happen at the very start of the step, and cannot be responded to (you finish doing them completly before anyone gets priority).

To answer your question, you could use the Lawkeeper:
- before the end of your opponent's Upkeep (tap a Birds of Paradise to stop them from spending it's mana in their Main Phase)
- before the end of your opponent's Draw step (tap a Birds of Paradise to stop them from spending it's mana in their Main Phase - although this is usually worse than in their Upkeep, since they could now cast an Instant/spell with Flash that they drew) 
- before the end of your opponent's first Main Phase (usually also sub-optimal)
- before the end of the Beginning of Combat step (your last chance to tap down a would-be attacker, and usually the best time to use the ability)

You can of course use it later in the turn as well.

The point is that your opponent cannot just skip parts of their turn to stop you doing things - you get priority whether they want to do anything or not.


Hexprrof

During a duel the other night when these questions came about i attacked with [C]Dungrove Elder[/C] and my opponent decided to let it go unblocked in order to use [C]Vengeful Pharaoh[/C]'s graveyard ability which was in the graveyard prior to the combat phase. 

We had a misunderstanding as to how an ability the resovlves from the graveyard to effect a hexproof creature that is on the battlefield.

I do not know if by having it in the graveyard is out of the control of the player as if the graveyard is controled by the player than the answer is very simple and Dungrove Elder is an illegal target for this ability.

it is more honestly a question of zones and the control behind such zones.


The player who owns the Pharoh controls the ability.
The ability targets, and since it is the Pharoh's opponent that controls the Elder, then Hexproof will stop it - Dungrove Elder cannot be the targeted by it.

Hope that helps - now get started on the Basic Rulebook on the page I linked to above.

~ Tim
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
Hi i am no stranger to this game but my only real reference is a 1999 DCI tourny rule book, which i know most of which is outdated and the magic  arcade games for the 360.

I first have some questions as to using specifically this : [C]Gideon's Lawkeeper[/C] 

I understand that in order to use the ; ability that i must have priority, my real question is when is the earliest time that priority may be given to be during my opponents turn in order to use such an ability benefically.  

So what i need to know is must i wait for my opponent to put a spell on the stack or is there another action my opponent can do to allow me to activiate the ability before combat?


You get priority in every step (except untap and cleanup). The game cannot proceed to the next step until both you and your opponent pass priority. You opponent would pass priority first, if it is their turn.

You can activate Lawkeeper during their first main phase, after they have passed priority. Then, you must pass priority at some point, and they may respond to your activated ability. If they pass priority, Lawkeeper's ability resolves. Then, your opponent receives priority. If he passes, you receive priority. If you pass, the combat step begins.
Hexproof

During a dual the other night when these questions came about i attacked with [C]Dungrove Elder[/C] and my opponent decided to let it go unblocked in order to use [C]Vengeful Pharaoh[/C]'s graveyard ability which was in the graveyard prior to the combat phase. 

We had a misunderstanding as to how an ability the resovlves from the graveyard to effect a hexproof creature that is on the battlefield.

I do not know if by having it in the graveyard is out of the control of the player as if the graveyard is controled by the player than the answer is very simple and Dungrove Elder is an illegal target for this ability.

it is more honestly a question of zones and the control behind such zones.


First of all, Vengeful Pharaoh's triggered ability will trigger. Your opponent will choose a legal target attacking creature, if there is one. If your Hexproof Dungrove Elder is the only attacking creature, it cannot be targeted.

I believe Pharaoh's ability will continue to resolve and put it on top of your opponent's library, though.
Cannot be relied upon^

First of all, Vengeful Pharaoh's triggered ability will trigger. Your opponent will choose a legal target attacking creature, if there is one. If your Hexproof Dungrove Elder is the only attacking creature, it cannot be targeted.

I believe Pharaoh's ability will continue to resolve and put it on top of your opponent's library, though.


Nope.  If the Dungrove elder is the only attacking creature the triggered ability will be removed from the stack, none of its effects happen.
MTG Rules Advisor
All players much pass priority on an empty stack for the game to move on to the next step/phase.  The earliest this happens is during the Upkeep Step.

Hexproof has nothing to do with zones though Hexproof only functions while it is on the battlefield).  Hexproof means that premanent "cannot be the target of spells or abilities your opponent's control".  It doesn't matter what zone that ability is coming from.



So from what i understand after reading the first part is that during an oppenents upkeep when all of his/her permanents are becoming untapped before he/she may move into their Main phase 1 priority is given to me as there is an empty stack (after the opponent passes their priority of course).

OK so with the hexproof just because the [C]Vengeful Paraoh[/C] is in the graveyard the player is still controlling the card, and when and where the ability is activated meaning that he/she may not target a hexproofed creature
All players much pass priority on an empty stack for the game to move on to the next step/phase.  The earliest this happens is during the Upkeep Step.

Hexproof has nothing to do with zones though Hexproof only functions while it is on the battlefield).  Hexproof means that premanent "cannot be the target of spells or abilities your opponent's control".  It doesn't matter what zone that ability is coming from.



So from what i understand after reading the first part is that during an oppenents upkeep when all of his/her permanents are becoming untapped before he/she may move into their Main phase 1 priority is given to me as there is an empty stack (after the opponent passes their priority of course).

OK so with the hexproof just because the [C]Vengeful Paraoh[/C] is in the graveyard the player is still controlling the card, and when and where the ability is activated meaning that he/she may not target a hexproofed creature


Basically correct.  There's a couple of very minor technicalities you have wrong, but they're irrelevant here.
DCI Level 1 Judge Please autocard: [c]Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon[/c] = Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon [c=Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon]Skittles[/c] = Skittles Cards do what they say they do. No more. No less.
All players much pass priority on an empty stack for the game to move on to the next step/phase.  The earliest this happens is during the Upkeep Step.

Hexproof has nothing to do with zones though Hexproof only functions while it is on the battlefield).  Hexproof means that premanent "cannot be the target of spells or abilities your opponent's control".  It doesn't matter what zone that ability is coming from.



So from what i understand after reading the first part is that during an oppenents upkeep when all of his/her permanents are becoming untapped before he/she may move into their Main phase 1 priority is given to me as there is an empty stack (after the opponent passes their priority of course).

OK so with the hexproof just because the [C]Vengeful Paraoh[/C] is in the graveyard the player is still controlling the card, and when and where the ability is activated meaning that he/she may not target a hexproofed creature


1. Well sort of.  Permanents all untap during the untap step.  Just after that, the upkeep starts.  You opponent must give you priority before the upkeep can end.  You will also get priority during the draw step, the first main phase, and the begining of combat step.  All before the Declare attackers step.

2. All that really matters is the the Pharoh's ability targets.  That is the key.
MTG Rules Advisor
Hi i am no stranger to this game but my only real reference is a 1999 DCI tourny rule book,


No it's not. ;)

wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Resources.aspx?x=m...


Hope that helps - now get started on the Basic Rulebook on the page I linked to above.

~ Tim

Tim:

I had taken a quick glance throuhg that earlier and with finding the more comprehensive version i thank you. 
Tim:

I had taken a quick glance throuhg that earlier and with finding the more comprehensive version i thank you. 


No problem!

Back when I started all I had was the 9th ed rulebook that came in my free starter set. It was such a boon when I found the up-to-date rulebooks online (as was finding this forum!).

Have fun reading!

~ Tim
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)