Where is an appropriate place to use a Yugoloth?

22 posts / 0 new
Last post
Are there any places I can bring them in other than the lower planes of the Bleak Eternity of Gehenna/Blood Rift plane? What is an appropriate and inappropriate location to encounter a Yugoloth? 

(If this is a stupid question, please humor me). 
No place would be off limits for a yugoloth. They are among the most clever, scheming fiends out there, playing both sides of the Blood War against each other and serving as mercenaries to the highest bidder. Sky's the limit.

No amount of tips, tricks, or gimmicks will ever be better than simply talking directly to your fellow players to resolve your issues.
DMs: Don't Prep the Plot | Structure First, Story Last | Prep Tips | Spoilers Don't Spoil Anything | No Myth Roleplaying
Players: 11 Ways to Be a Better Roleplayer | You Are Not Your Character     Hilarious D&D Actual Play Podcast: Crit Juice!

FREE CONTENT: Encounters With Alternate Goals | Full-Contact Futbol  |  Pre-Gen D&D 5e PCs | Re-Imagining Phandelver | Three Pillars of Immersion | Seahorse Run

Follow me on Twitter: @is3rith

No place would be off limits for a yugoloth. They are among the most clever, scheming fiends out there, playing both sides of the Blood War against each other and serving as mercenaries to the highest bidder. Sky's the limit.

Based on my old Planescape stuff, including the blood war box set, again as above, the sneaky bargainers of the lower plain can be found anywhere including in the heavens (making a deal with the angels of good-the angels figure it's all for the greater good).

I love the yugoloth's because of how many places you can find them, pulling strings across the multiverse (however, the ultra intelligent angels of course often outfox the cunning Ugoloths).
Based on my old Planescape stuff, including the blood war box set, again as above, the sneaky bargainers of the lower plain can be found anywhere including in the heavens (making a deal with the angels of good-the angels figure it's all for the greater good).

I love the yugoloth's because of how many places you can find them, pulling strings across the multiverse (however, the ultra intelligent angels of course often outfox the cunning Ugoloths).



Yeah, I own every 2E Planescape thing that was ever made. It's actually the only thing I've ever bothered to seriously collect (I hate clutter). Everything in mint condition. To me, this is the bible of anything planes-related and I reject any and all updates with edition accordingly. It's just that good, as I'm sure you can attest.

One of my favorite NPCs of all time comes from that and he is a yugoloth - A'kin the Friendly Arcanaloth. My players never knew what to think of him.

No amount of tips, tricks, or gimmicks will ever be better than simply talking directly to your fellow players to resolve your issues.
DMs: Don't Prep the Plot | Structure First, Story Last | Prep Tips | Spoilers Don't Spoil Anything | No Myth Roleplaying
Players: 11 Ways to Be a Better Roleplayer | You Are Not Your Character     Hilarious D&D Actual Play Podcast: Crit Juice!

FREE CONTENT: Encounters With Alternate Goals | Full-Contact Futbol  |  Pre-Gen D&D 5e PCs | Re-Imagining Phandelver | Three Pillars of Immersion | Seahorse Run

Follow me on Twitter: @is3rith

Are there any places I can bring them in other than the lower planes of the Bleak Eternity of Gehenna/Blood Rift plane? What is an appropriate and inappropriate location to encounter a Yugoloth?

Although they are suitable any place you might use a demon or devil, they most often seem to be found in the employ of Drow.

Note: in 4e Yugoloths are referred to simply as demons.

Although they are suitable any place you might use a demon or devil, they most often seem to be found in the employ of Drow.

Note: in 4e Yugoloths are referred to simply as demons.




I could be wrong because I don't actually know anything about yugoloths, but I think you're thinking of yochlol when you say they're likely to be found working for drow.

(I say this because I also got confused with yochlols when I read this thread title.)
The difference between madness and genius is determined only by degrees of success.
Although they are suitable any place you might use a demon or devil, they most often seem to be found in the employ of Drow.

Note: in 4e Yugoloths are referred to simply as demons.



Or, well, as a subspecies of demons. They're not Tanar'ri or Abyssal Plague demons. "Demon" is a pretty broad description in 4e.
Although they are suitable any place you might use a demon or devil, they most often seem to be found in the employ of Drow.

Note: in 4e Yugoloths are referred to simply as demons.



Or, well, as a subspecies of demons. They're not Tanar'ri or Abyssal Plague demons. "Demon" is a pretty broad description in 4e.

Yeah, I was under the impression that demons were expanded like this after 2nd ed and whatnot (likely I might be wrong, I don't often pay attention to early development & monsters). Figured it was: demons -> yugoloths instead of yugoloths -> demons. 
Although they are suitable any place you might use a demon or devil, they most often seem to be found in the employ of Drow.

Note: in 4e Yugoloths are referred to simply as demons.



Or, well, as a subspecies of demons. They're not Tanar'ri or Abyssal Plague demons. "Demon" is a pretty broad description in 4e.

Yeah, I was under the impression that demons were expanded like this after 2nd ed and whatnot (likely I might be wrong, I don't often pay attention to early development & monsters). Figured it was: demons -> yugoloths instead of yugoloths -> demons. 


In 4e, that's about right. In 3.5, it's still "Yugoloth -> Mezzoloth " instead of "Demon -> Tanar'ri -> Balor."
The funny thing is that they're completely integrated with other demons in 4e - they're Chaotic Evil instead of Neutral Evil and they've lost the -loth at the end of their names. In 4e, the comparison would go like this: "Demon -> Yugoloth -> Mezzodemon" and "Demon -> Tanar'ri -> Balor."
fwiw: Yugoloths were originally called 'daemons' (which is pronounced the same as 'demon'). This was changed to Yugoloth in 2nd edition to avoid a perceived conflict with religious groups.
fwiw: Yugoloths were originally called 'daemons' (which is pronounced the same as 'demon'). This was changed to Yugoloth in 2nd edition to avoid a perceived conflict with religious groups.

Yes, that's the point I was trying to make saying Daemons [1st ed]-> Yugoloths [2nd +] 
fwiw: Yugoloths were originally called 'daemons' (which is pronounced the same as 'demon'). This was changed to Yugoloth in 2nd edition to avoid a perceived conflict with religious groups.

Yes, that's the point I was trying to make saying Daemons [1st ed]-> Yugoloths [2nd +] 


And then -> Demons [4e]. I still haven't seen any 4e material distinguishing Yugoloth demons from other kinds of demons, although I'd like to be corrected if I'm wrong.
The funny thing is that they're completely integrated with other demons in 4e - they're Chaotic Evil instead of Neutral Evil and they've lost the -loth at the end of their names. In 4e, the comparison would go like this: "Demon -> Yugoloth -> Mezzodemon" and "Demon -> Tanar'ri -> Balor."



4e dropped them as a major group of fiends on their own, though I suppose you could de facto have them as a single collective group native to Blood Rift as a layer of the Abyss. But it's a far cry from their status in 1e/2e/3e as the oldest of the fiends and the creators of the obyriths and ancient baatorians.

The naming convention of 'loth wasn't entirely dropped either, just handled in a very random fashion so I don't know if it was planned, or multiple people did different things, or what. For instance mezzoloths became mezzodemons, but canoloths remained canoloths, and then arcanaloths became raavastas. It's odd. Tough to say what the rationale there was.
Shemeska the Marauder, Freelancer 5 / Yugoloth 10
fwiw: Yugoloths were originally called 'daemons' (which is pronounced the same as 'demon'). This was changed to Yugoloth in 2nd edition to avoid a perceived conflict with religious groups.

Yes, that's the point I was trying to make saying Daemons [1st ed]-> Yugoloths [2nd +] 



Funny thing is that Pathfinder's NE fiends are called daemons once again like they were in 1e (I'd have loved to call them 'loths mind you, but WotC owns that IP).

The ironic bit above is that combined with my deep appreciation of the 2e era yugoloth material, I really -really- disliked any attempt to call them daemons rather than yugoloths during 3.x, but then ended up writing PF's daemon book. ;)
Shemeska the Marauder, Freelancer 5 / Yugoloth 10
it's a far cry from their status in 1e/2e/3e as the oldest of the fiends and the creators of the obyriths

I thought Yugoloths and Obyriths were both created by Baernaloths?

it's a far cry from their status in 1e/2e/3e as the oldest of the fiends and the creators of the obyriths

I thought Yugoloths and Obyriths were both created by Baernaloths?




Matter of perspective there, depending on which source you give more primacy too (Hellbound, or FC I). By one source the 'loths created the tanar'ri and baatezu with the aid of the baernaloths (who had created them). By the later source the baernaloths created the ancient baatorians and obyriths rather than the tanar'ri and baatezu. The former source is yugoloth myth, while the later source is told through an obyrith in-character and out of character confirmed.

Compromising the two would place the 'loths as the creations of the baernaloths (which isn't in question) and with their aid having created the obyriths and ancient baatorians (other sources placing the tanar'ri as the later creations of the obyriths, possibly Pale Night in specific, and the baatezu as corrupted followers of an originally LN Asmodeus).

I was speaking off hand a bit rather than the longer explanation.
Shemeska the Marauder, Freelancer 5 / Yugoloth 10
depending on which source you give more primacy too (Hellbound, or FC I)

Hmm... I didn't glean any Yugoloth involvement in Obyrith creation from either source. What might I have missed?

Update: I think I see where you might be inferring that: if both Yugoloths & Obyriths claim to have created Tanar'ri (and to have been created by Baernaloths), then both stories could be reconciled by: Baernaloths -> Yugoloths -> Obyriths -> Tanar'ri
(but wouldn't that also mean they could be similarly reconcilled by: Baernaloths -> Obyriths -> Yugoloths -> Tanar'ri?)

Apply Yugoloth liberally to any affected area.  Discontinue the use of Yugoloths if you experience any of the following symptoms: glossolalia, bleeding of the walls, disembodied maniacal laughter, a persistent rash on your soul.  Yugoloths should not be used while operating heavy rituals.

Ask your demonologist if yugoloths are right for you!
I'm coming down with a case of the yugoloths. :<

As an interesting tidbit, I was reading the 4e Book of Vile Darkness when I noticed that yugoloths (like, the 3e-style mercenary yugoloths) got a mention in one of the devil-centric campaign arcs - some has-been archdevil hired them to protect him from the party. I was all "woah, that's weird." Must've been a lore fart.

~The Chilli God Has Spoken.

depending on which source you give more primacy too (Hellbound, or FC I)

Hmm... I didn't glean any Yugoloth involvement in Obyrith creation from either source. What might I have missed?

Update: I think I see where you might be inferring that: if both Yugoloths & Obyriths claim to have created Tanar'ri (and to have been created by Baernaloths), then both stories could be reconciled by: Baernaloths -> Yugoloths -> Obyriths -> Tanar'ri
(but wouldn't that also mean they could be similarly reconcilled by: Baernaloths -> Obyriths -> Yugoloths -> Tanar'ri?)




I don't have the book in front of me atm, so the precise bits from each reference may blend here.

Two places in FC:I. The dying Obyrith in Yeenoghu's domain mentions that the obyriths were not native to the Abyss but arrived there from another plane. Later in the book, the section on Kabiri (imprisoned in the Wells of Darkness) describes his searching for an older creator race that seeded his kind into the Abyss. Apparently they didn't like him looking. And in a third place they outright name the baernaloths as that race.

At least as I recall that was also the authors intent (Jacobs and Mona at Paizo now), and there was a little bit more in another Dungeon or Dragon piece on the Wells of Darkness mentioning one of the baern.

As far as rationalizing the mythology from Hellbound versus FC:I, it's both important to take into account that the obyriths hadn't been created yet at the time that Hellbound was written, and also that the Hellbound mythology is presented entirely in-game, while the FC:I material is presented as a mix of both in-game narration and out of game statement. Plus from other sources we know that the Waste formed first among the lower planes (with the other corresponding cardinal alignment planes coming before the other 'mixed' alignment planes) - which comes into my next point.

I've found it easiest to bring them together with the baernaloths being the first, as a result of being the first natives of the Waste, with the yugoloths being their next creations*. As a result of their later purging of law and chaos from the 'loths, they seeded the nascent Abyss and pre-baatezu 9 Hells of Baator with the ancient baatorians. Eons later the tanar'ri emerge in the Abyss as creations of the obyriths who largely kill their creators off, and the ancient baatorians are driven nearly to extinction as a newly corrupted Asmodeus arrives with the first baatezu.

This would also correspond roughly with the period in which the baernaloths largely withdraw from the cosmos and leave things to the 'loths. Everything falls apart in their childrens' hands, or perhaps they got out while the getting was good. ;)

*demodands are their own thing, and either occur just before or just after the 'loths depending on which version of the mythology you follow
Shemeska the Marauder, Freelancer 5 / Yugoloth 10
I'm coming down with a case of the yugoloths. :<

As an interesting tidbit, I was reading the 4e Book of Vile Darkness when I noticed that yugoloths (like, the 3e-style mercenary yugoloths) got a mention in one of the devil-centric campaign arcs - some has-been archdevil hired them to protect him from the party. I was all "woah, that's weird." Must've been a lore fart.



Probably not a lore fart, since Schwalb really does his homework on his projects. The 'loths are still around in the 4e cosmology as natives of the Abyssal layer of Blood Rift. Just no unifying racial name and slender material. The 4e take on the lore is kinda odd and twisted in places, but some of it preserves what was there in rough fashion.
Shemeska the Marauder, Freelancer 5 / Yugoloth 10
Are there any places I can bring them in other than the lower planes of the Bleak Eternity of Gehenna/Blood Rift plane? What is an appropriate and inappropriate location to encounter a Yugoloth? 

(If this is a stupid question, please humor me). 



Any time is a good time for a Yugoloth.