Hide Armor Expertise Nerfed...

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I always figured the feat had been nerfed because it completely invalidated Guardian Druids. I mean, for a feat, Swarm Druids got their defining class feature along with damage reduction.

Of course, as has been mentioned, it's kind of tough to play as swarm druids at high levels, so... 
I always figured the feat had been nerfed because it completely invalidated Guardian Druids. I mean, for a feat, Swarm Druids got their defining class feature along with damage reduction.

Of course, as has been mentioned, it's kind of tough to play as swarm druids at high levels, so... 



Uhm, that was the whole point. The Swam Druid was supposed to get CON DR and CON to AC, but be charged one feat for it.


Also worth mentioning is the fact that the powers with Swarm-specific riders tend to lack any appreciable control, whereas Guardians get some decent riders.  And, of course, the Swarm Druid's class feature only applies to beast form whereas the other builds get theirs all the time.  This makes it tougher for Swarm Druids justify staying in humanoid for too long, further limiting their ability to exert control. 

Pre-nerf they were simply more slanted to their secondary role than the other builds (not more powerful overall), but to be effective at this they need scaling AC, in addition to DR and any durability-boosting powers that they pick up. 
What if the Swarm Druid's DR scaled with tier? Something like 2 + Con modifier at level 11, 4 + Con modifier at level 21?
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What if the Swarm Druid's DR scaled with tier? Something like 2 + Con modifier at level 11, 4 + Con modifier at level 21?


Nothing would change, including the fact that
I think that's why he said it wouldn't work until 11. He's going to hybrid and take HT twice with paragon hybrid.

Seems like an awful steep price to pay. And you will be destroyed by anything that targets Ref or Will, while doing significantly less damage than a full barbarian.

Honestly, when you have a high CON, AC attacks aren't that bad - they typically only do damage, which you can soak with your high HP. At higher levels, it's those NAD attacks that you really need to avoid.



You'll get about 6 extra hit points at the most, which won't really mean much.

A dex Barbarian will get the same 6 points to health every level, so after say, 10 levels the first 15 hit points plus 60 hit points, plus 10, the maybe plus six won't really matter much; the scaling defenses on the other hand, most likely will; it will be 86 hit points compared to 93, even if we compared 20 strengtth to 18 str/con, and by 21, 30 etc. those fixed bonus to beggining health points won't really mean much.


As far as rageblood vigor goes, you can get a feat that adds +5 and at paragon you add +5 and then at epic you apply +10, so it mostly gets washed out, those few extra hit points.

And even if you go 20 strength and 16 dex, the 11 con you get will be bumped up to 12 at paragon and so anything that needs con as a base mofider, such as the area of effect at-will for thunder barbarians, will be achievable without needing to bump up con by any considerable amount.
Ah, Paragon hybrid, I'd forgotten that even existed.  As others have stated, it's not worth giving up a real PP over, especially since you're also unnecessarily forcing yourself into a primary/secondary that boost the same NAD, and you're watering down your effectiveness as a Barbarian by being forced to take Warden powers. 

Builds that force you into a single good NAD usually either have better powers and/or support (think hammer wielding Earthstrength Wardens), or they're simply builds that nobody really plays (think Dex Wizards or Prescient Bards).  Con Barbarians used to have an incentive for keeping Con high (Storm/Hurricane of Blades was based on it, and obviously HAE led to stupid high AC at high levels).  Now, however, you simply get more out of going Dex secondary.



Except that you really wouldn't have a good barbarian paragon path per say, calmfury if that's your thing and maybe the bear, but as say a dwarf you can already spend your second wind quickly so who cares?

Nothing would change, including the fact that


Huh?  regarding worst thread?
...and yet you read and even participate in it....????  Here's an idea, stop reading it.

Ah, Paragon hybrid, I'd forgotten that even existed.  As others have stated, it's not worth giving up a real PP over, especially since you're also unnecessarily forcing yourself into a primary/secondary that boost the same NAD, and you're watering down your effectiveness as a Barbarian by being forced to take Warden powers. 

Builds that force you into a single good NAD usually either have better powers and/or support (think hammer wielding Earthstrength Wardens), or they're simply builds that nobody really plays (think Dex Wizards or Prescient Bards).  Con Barbarians used to have an incentive for keeping Con high (Storm/Hurricane of Blades was based on it, and obviously HAE led to stupid high AC at high levels).  Now, however, you simply get more out of going Dex secondary.



Except that you really wouldn't have a good barbarian paragon path per say, calmfury if that's your thing and maybe the bear, but as say a dwarf you can already spend your second wind quickly so who cares?


Even a mediocre PP is usually going to be better than Paragon Hybrid, which is just a second use of HT plus you get to pick lower level powers from either of your classes.  Big whoop.  No 11th and 16th level features, and no AP feature.  It's almost like getting half a PP.  And you still have 2 crappy NADs (which get targetted more often in Paragon), and depending on your race you may have a tough time qualifying for Superior Will to make up for it. 

As for other good PP options for Barbarians, some of the racial ones aren't bad (particularly Adroit Explorer), and there's always the option of picking up a Fighter PP from M/Cing (hello Dreadnought). 
Ah, Paragon hybrid, I'd forgotten that even existed.  As others have stated, it's not worth giving up a real PP over, especially since you're also unnecessarily forcing yourself into a primary/secondary that boost the same NAD, and you're watering down your effectiveness as a Barbarian by being forced to take Warden powers. 

Builds that force you into a single good NAD usually either have better powers and/or support (think hammer wielding Earthstrength Wardens), or they're simply builds that nobody really plays (think Dex Wizards or Prescient Bards).  Con Barbarians used to have an incentive for keeping Con high (Storm/Hurricane of Blades was based on it, and obviously HAE led to stupid high AC at high levels).  Now, however, you simply get more out of going Dex secondary.



Except that you really wouldn't have a good barbarian paragon path per say, calmfury if that's your thing and maybe the bear, but as say a dwarf you can already spend your second wind quickly so who cares?


Even a mediocre PP is usually going to be better than Paragon Hybrid, which is just a second use of HT plus you get to pick lower level powers from either of your classes.  Big whoop.  No 11th and 16th level features, and no AP feature.  It's almost like getting half a PP.  And you still have 2 crappy NADs (which get targetted more often in Paragon), and depending on your race you may have a tough time qualifying for Superior Will to make up for it. 

As for other good PP options for Barbarians, some of the racial ones aren't bad (particularly Adroit Explorer), and there's always the option of picking up a Fighter PP from M/Cing (hello Dreadnought). 



I suppose.

I mean in the end it's still better to just go Dex.

18/18 is fine really, although you can go 20/16 and not really suffer much at later levels.


As far as the extra crit goes it's really not that much lest you get a blood-iron weapon, which I suppose you will.

In which case you go sword or spear without much of a draw-back to damage.