About saves.....

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Here's the thing, AC is a flat thing, no rolling for AC if an attack goes for the armor class, but what about spells that are hindered by will/reflex/fortitude? Do you ROLL for that save? Say I want to use hypnotism (will save negates), does the target roll and add his will save or is it a flat will save versus (10+spell level+charisma(sorceror))?

Also, a touch attack means making a normal ranged/melee attack versus touch AC right? Except how do you do a ranged touch attack? (And is there a melee range touch attack spell (seems impossible given a wizard's/sorceror's low attack bonus)?
The save is 1d20+(relevant saving throw bonus) vs a DC set by the spellcaster (10+key ability (cha for sorcerers)+spell level, typically).

There's a few variants in the DMG and Unearthed Arcana that flip that around - either by making AC a "defense roll" or by switching spells to use a spell roll (1d20+key ability+spell level vs 10+relevant saving throw). That second route is the approach taken by later d20-based systems (such as Star Wars: Saga Edition and 4e). But in 3.5, it's like every earlier edition: Attacks are a roll from the attacker against a static AC, while saves are a defensive roll made by the target.

A touch attack is identical to a normal attack except it uses the touch AC. A ranged touch attack is what happens if, for instance, you're shooting a ray of arcane fire at your target (Scorching Ray) or lobbing a ball of energy at him (Orb of [insert energy type here]) - it doesn't matter if he's got a heavy shield or a solid set of plate armor, if it makes contact, he's going to hurt. That's a ranged touch attack (1d20+base attack+dexterity, usually). Typically ranged-touch-attack spells do not allow saving throws; your chance to resist them is based on your touch AC rather than, say, your Reflex save.

There are many melee touch attack spells, even at low levels - Shocking Grasp is actually one of the best ways of dealing damage at the low levels, though it's risky due to your low armor class and hit points; Chill Touch is weirdly worded but similarly strong, and the druids have the supremely useful Produce Flame. It's also surprisingly accurate, even at low levels - for instance, most low-level threats only have a touch AC of 11-13 or so, which the low attack bonus can easily hit (most of the variance between characters at this level is in the die roll anyway), and at the high levels the difference between normal and touch AC is often spectacular (the biggest example are the great dragons - AC 43 or so, touch AC... 9).

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These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style)

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
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[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

Thanks for the info, I went through the bestiary because I was curious about dragons and touch AC and was pretty surprised to find red dragons at their largest size with a touch AC of two. It makes sense given their size but......that's a pretty big difference. Won't deny it though, would love to meet the wizard/sorceror/druid willing to risk a killer swat of opportunity from a red dragon that size just to deliver a touch attack, I don't think there are any upper level spells that are melee touch attack spells.
Don't forget that RAY attacks use touch AC as well.

The touch attack and no save aspect of Shivering Touch (Frostburn?) is what gives it the nickname "Dragon Killer." 
Don't forget that RAY attacks use touch AC as well.

The touch attack and no save aspect of Shivering Touch (Frostburn?) is what gives it the nickname "Dragon Killer." 



I'm guessing there are probably feats to raise AC against opportunity attacks for these attempts (can't imagine it would be nearly enough, though with added buffing spells from the wizard's/sorceror's repertoire it makes it a less than suicidal attempt).

Also, I forgot to ask, but what do they mean when they say a save is charisma/constitution/something-or-other based? Do they mean roll a d20 and add your specified attribute modifier? That seems kind of like a low bonus.
There's also the Spectral Hand spell in the PHB (touch at a distance) and the PHB2's duskblade (not every spellcaster is as fragile as a sorcerer.)

Save DC is the difficulty, not the bonus. And the DC formula is usually listed in the Special Attacks section; if it isn't it usually is 10+1/2 HD+ability mod. The biggest red dragon has 40 hit dice and a 31 Con; the constitution-based save DC is thus 10+20+10=40. That's the number your Reflex save has to hit for half damage. (It's basically impossible for mist characters to do this. See the rogue Improved Evasion.)

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

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These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style)

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

Save DC is the difficulty, not the bonus. And the DC formula is usually listed in the Special Attacks section; if it isn't it usually is 10+1/2 HD+ability mod. The biggest red dragon has 40 hit dice and a 31 Con; the constitution-based save DC is thus 10+20+10=40. That's the number your Reflex save has to hit for half damage. (It's basically impossible for mist characters to do this. See the rogue Improved Evasion.)



Ah, thanks, I knew DC was difficulty, it's just that I was looking over some of the monsters from the monster manual and was wondering how to save against their spells. One version of the beholder states that its eye rays have a save DC of 17 and that the DC is charisma based. Going by the calculation, supposing I encounter a beholder at level 13, my save would be 10+6+6(supposing my charisma is 22-23)=22. Supposing the beholder uses disintegrate, my fortitude save would have to be at least 22, right?
Ah, thanks, I knew DC was difficulty, it's just that I was looking over some of the monsters from the monster manual and was wondering how to save against their spells.

They always tell you how they're calculated. For supernatural or extraordinary abilities (labelled (Su) or (Ex), respectively) it's always 10+1/2 HD + key ability, usually Charisma or Costitution; they'll tell you which to use, and if there are any other modifiers (like the Ability Focus feat). For spell-like abilities and spells, you work the way magic does: 10+spell level+Key ability; for spells they'll tell you what class it works like, and for spell-likes it's usually Charisma again.

That gives you the TARGET NUMBER, once again. If you actually fight these mosters, you need to roll that high on 1d20+your character's saving throw.

One version of the beholder states that its eye rays have a save DC of 17 and that the DC is charisma based. Going by the calculation, supposing I encounter a beholder at level 13, my save would be 10+6+6(supposing my charisma is 22-23)=22. Supposing the beholder uses disintegrate, my fortitude save would have to be at least 22, right?

No, not like that. The save DC (the monster's target number) is set by their ability score; your saving throws are set by your own abilities. You're also confused a bit on CR and HD.

Beholders are CR 13, which means that a party of four level 13 characters should be able to fight a single beholder and succeed, expending roughly 20% of their daily resources. You use the CR when computing encounter level, XP rewards, loot rewards, and so on. These are all metagame properties - things the DM needs to know relative to his players. However, they only have 11 HD, which means that with their 15 Charisma and a Charisma-based eye ray, the DC of their eye rays is 10+5 (11/2) + 2 (Charisma mod) = 17. That's how that's calculated.

Let's assume you're a level 13 Sorcerer. (Realistically you won't ever be one: The sorcerer has no reason to stay as a sorcerer and has  every reason to prestige-class out as soon as possible, almost always at or before level 6 or so.) Your starting ability scores are 15 Charisma (raised to 18 by your level increases, and you're wearing a +4 Cloak of Charisma for a final Charisma of 22), 14 Constitution (you're wearing a +2 amulet of health for 16 total), 13 Dexterity, 12 Intelligence, 10 Wisdom, 8 Strength. This means that the spells you cast have a DC of 16+spell level; your individual saving throws are Fortitude +7, Reflex +5, and Will +8. 

If the beholder uses a DC 17 eye ray on you (let's say it's the petrification ray, which requires a Fortitude save or be petrified), you need to roll a save. In this case, it's the Fortitude save, so you roll 1d20+7; the result is 16 or less, you're petrified, while if it's 17 or higher, you aren't. (The 17 is set by the beholder's charisma, as he's the one using that ability). Note that your  Charisma does not factor into this equation at all, since it's the beholder using the ability. (If you were a sorcerer/paladin, with the Divine Grace ability - which adds your Charisma bonus to your saving throws - it would factor in, but here, it doesn't.)

If you retaliate, say by casting a Disintegrate of your own, you're a 13th level sorcerer, so Disintegrate will do 26d6 damage by default and require a ranged touch attack to hit the target. That ranged touch attack is made at 1d20+6 (base attack) +1 (Dexterity); note that this averages to 17, while the beholder only has a touch AC of 7, so you're actually pretty likely to hit it. If you do hit it, the beholder has to make a Fortitude save of its own against that spell - rolling 1d20+9 (look up the section on aberrations if you're wondering where this came from - they have poor Fort saves, so an 11HD beholder has the same base Fortitude save as an 11HD sorcerer (+3), modified by the beholder's Constitution score (+4) and Great Fortitude feat (+2)). The beholder has to get a result of at least 22 - that's the save DC of your 6th level spells, since you're the one casting it. If the beholder saves, he takes 5d6 damage; if he fails, he gets hit with a lot more and may very well crumble into dust. (This is why most beholders use their Antimagic eyes.)

See how this works? The attack sets the DC (target number) based on their stats; the defender makes a saving throw against that DC based on their stats.

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style)

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

Thanks for the detailed info, I've been agonizing over these entries in the monster manual and within the spell information blocks in the players handbook Smile
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