Berserker Optimized toward single combat

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EDIT: I have a Longtooth Shifter Outcast Pack Themed Berserker.

I want to maximize my potential as a striker and do the most damage possible.

I changed my post after discussing with you, and finally coming to see what I wanted was bad for the party and bad overall. It looks like you either focus on defending or striking, you can't do both at the same time. That said, most people seem to think it'd be best to focus on striking.

That's what I want to know. Since the Berserker guide is incomplete, with no sections written on Feats, paragon paths, weapons, or anything beyond the powers, and I'm not even sure that the powers sections are totally completed or up to date, I need help doing what all of you have led me the path to: leaning towars striking. Otherwise I wouldn't be asking, I would just follow the guide and pick whatever he had a sky-blue for strikers.

Taking all of your advice in this thread, this is my character as he stands right now. It doesn't have to be the most optimized character ever, so I'm not changing to Arid background, or changing my race because Half-Orcs are better. That said, with what I have I want it to be the best striker it can be. Please help. I did what Ixidor suggested, starting with the Aluhak and I was going to work toward the Spiked Chain, and the Flail feats that allow you to attack people then prone them then slide them, but if that's not strikerish then I'll gladly take an Axe or a Spear or even nunchaku if that's what does the most damage. I'm thinking the best way to be a striker is to just take all the best Primal powers that do the most damage, am I right on this? Or maybe I could multiclass fighter and take a bunch of the heavy hitting fighter powers.


====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Olaf Rangarson, level 1
Longtooth Shifter, Barbarian (Berserker)
Heartland Option: Frozen Land
Dark Sun, Inherent Bonuses
Frostfell (Primal Power) (+2 to Athletics)
Theme: Pack Outcast
 
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 20, CON 15, DEX 16, INT 14, WIS 15, CHA 13
 
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 18, CON 15, DEX 16, INT 14, WIS 13, CHA 13
 
 
AC: 16 Fort: 18 Ref: 13 Will: 13
HP: 30 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 7
 
TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +13, Intimidate +6, Perception +7
 
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +2, Arcana +2, Bluff +1, Diplomacy +1, Dungeoneering +2, Endurance +3, Heal +2, History +2, Insight +2, Nature +2, Religion +2, Stealth +2, Streetwise +1, Thievery +2
 
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Pack Outcast Utility: Body of the Wolf
Longtooth Shifter Racial Power: Longtooth Shifting
Multiple Class Utility: Defender Aura
Barbarian Attack: Vengeful Guardian
Barbarian Attack 1: Run Down
Barbarian Attack 1: Stalk and Strike
Barbarian Attack 1: Life-Ending Strike
Barbarian Attack 1: Batter Down
 
FEATS
Level 1: Weapon Expertise (Flail)
 
ITEMS
Hide Armor x1
Adventurer's Kit
Alhulak x1
====== End ======



I am Red/Green
I am Red/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both instinctive and emotional. I value my own instincts and desires, and either ignore or crush anything that stands in my way; planning and foresight are unnecessary. At best, I'm determined and fierce; at worst, I'm headstrong and infantile.


D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium

What sort of weapon are you using?

I think the Flail with multiclass Fighter is one of the best options you can take. Battle Awareness is just plain good (you'll have to get your Wis up), and then you can start the Flail chain: Flail Expertise + Dragging Flail + Lashing Flail. This allows you to slide 1 and prone any target you hit with an MBA. On top of that, there are some fighter powers you might want to swap for, such as EL7 Come and Get It: Strength vs Will and you pull in a burst 2 around you into your defender aura. Of course, this might not always bring your 'challenged opponent,' but if he wasn't willing to come at you after an insult like that, maybe he isn't worth the effort (RP-wise).

For damage, you can get an Ahluak to start, +3 d8 Versatile flail, and then upgrade to a superior weapon: triple-headed flail +3 d10 Versatile flail or Spiked Chain +3 2d4 reach flail (don't take the training feat, take the proficiency feat). I think which I'd take is a bit of a toss-up (I'm building a character like this right now).

The triple-headed-flail does have the +2 possible damage and the +1 damage for versatile ...

However, the flail train + reach on the spiked chain could be pretty freaking awesome.
In response to your post, first off I'd like to say that I love it. Especially the Spiked Chain idea. RP-wise, throwing it out two squares or however much reach it has, and wrapping it around a foes throat as they lay prone then dragging them to my feet for a finishing blow, or something like that just sounds way too sweet. I think I also remember some weapons in Dark Sun that were named Cahulaks and a sort of feat chain you could follow to drag people with them (CAHULAKS EXPERT Prerequisite: 7th level, proficiency with cahulaks Benefit: You swap one ofyour level 6 or higher utility powers for the drag behind power.) and the other two are CAHULAKS NOVICE and CAHULAKS SPECIALIST which give additional powers to mess people up, however whether these powers are any good or not compared to other options of the same level from both the Gladiator and Barbarian power list, I do not know. The Cahulaks are +2 prof, double weapon with one end having a reach of 3 and the offhand a reach of 6, that can apparently be used as a light shield, and does 1d8 at both ends of the weapon. Considering the amazing versatility of these weapons they look like a good choice. However the Spiked Chain may offer similar feats to drag and snare and pull opponents that I dont know about (Martial Power 1 or 2 perhaps?) At some point I also think I was going for some frostcheese, because my character is from the Frozen Wastelands to the north, and when he transforms he actually takes on the countenance of a winter wolf. Here is my character summary: The stats may seem OP but my DM told us to roll and I suppose I have lucky dice.


I find optimization extremely difficult, because I can't seem to keep track of every single option to my class, and I struggle with feats. For instance: Paragon paths, so far I think I have the PHB2 PP for the Barb, Deadly Berserker, The PHB2 Racial PP for Shifters, and the Gladiator Champion (it's my theme)..plus I can multiclass to fighter at somepoint (when is a good time? I don't know ) and open a can of worms there. Feats are the real biggie though, you only get 18 slots, and you somehow have to make yourself a) hit better always, b) shore up your weaknesses c) make what you have the best it can be (Like I saw something in the zerker thread for pages about Hide spec and Shield Spec and I dont have a shield anyway and idk what to do about all that) then d) pick up stuff that just helps in general. Is there room for the feats that the Caluhak offers if you have like x amounts of feats to get and you need at least 12 pre-listed feats just to be good at all, blah blah blah. Then you have to weigh 4 different power options (or 5 if you MC fighter) which are: The feat powers, the gladiator theme powers, the zerker powers, the o-barb powers then the fighter powers. My head is spinning. Help   


I don't know if you have the Dark Sun campaign book, so for the sake of on the spot comparing, here is the weapon and the associated feats, so you can reference them versus all the other options and tell me if it's worth it, equal to the Spiked Chain, worse than..because honestly I don't know. I don't get this whole char op thing no matter how hard I try.


Show

Weapon    Prof. Damage Range Price Weight Group Properties
Cahulaks2 +2          1d8     3/6 25 gp     9 lb.  Flail Heavy, thrown reach
(Off-hand end) +2   1d8                                 Flail Off-Hand

 


CAHULAKS NOVICE
Prerequisite: 4th level, proficiency with cahulaks
Benefit: You swap one ofyour level 3 or higher encounter attack powers for the tripping cahulaks power.


Tripping Cahulaks Feat Power
The weighted end ofyour cahulaks catches your opponent, pulling the enemy closer while you prepare for another attack if it tries to escape.


Encounter + Martial, Weapon Standard Action Melee weapon Requirement: You must be wielding a cahulaks.


Target One creature Primary Attack: Strength vs. AC (main end)
Hit: 1 [W] + Strength modifier damage, and you pull the target 1 square. Until the start of your next turn, you can make the following secondary attack against the target.
Level 17: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage.
Level 27: 3[W] + Strength modifier damage.

Opportunity Action Melee 1 Trigger: The target willingly enters a square that is not adjacent to you while you are wielding a cahulaks.
Secondary Attack: Strength vs. AC (off-hand end) Hit 1 [W] damage, and you knock the target prone.


CAHULAKS EXPERT
Prerequisite: 7th level, proficiency with cahulaks
Benefit: You swap one ofyour level 6 or higher utility powers for the drag behind power.


Drag Behind Feat Power Using your cahulaks, you entangle your enemy and drag the creature behind you as you move across the battlefield.


Encounter + Martial Move Action Melee 1 Requirement: You must be wielding a cahulaks.


Target: One immobilized or prone creature Effect: You move your speed, pulling the target with you. You do not provoke an opportunity attack from the target for this movement.


CAHULAKS SPECIALIST 
Prerequisite: 10th level, proficiency with cahulaks
Benefit: You swap one ofyour level 9 or higher daily attack powers for the binding cahulaks power.


Binding Cahulaks Feat Power
You spin your cahulaks and hurl it at a distantfoe. The weighted cords wrap around the enemy and cause it to fall.

Daily + Martial, Reliable, Weapon


Standard Action Ranged weapon Requirement You must be wielding a cahulaks.


Target: One creature Attack: Strength vs. Reflex (main end) Hit 1 [W] + 1 [W] (off-hand end) + Strength modifier damage, and you knock the target prone. The target is immobilized (save ends). Level 25: 2[W] + 2[W] (off.hand end) + Strength modifier damage.



   
     

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Olaf Rangarson, level 1
Longtooth Shifter, Barbarian (Berserker)
Heartland Option: Frozen Land
Dark Sun, Inherent Bonuses
Frostfell (Primal Power) (+2 to Athletics)
Theme: Pack Outcast
 
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 20, CON 15, DEX 16, INT 14, WIS 15, CHA 13
 
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 18, CON 15, DEX 16, INT 14, WIS 13, CHA 13
 
 
AC: 16 Fort: 18 Ref: 13 Will: 13
HP: 30 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 7
 
TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +13, Intimidate +6, Perception +7
 
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +2, Arcana +2, Bluff +1, Diplomacy +1, Dungeoneering +2, Endurance +3, Heal +2, History +2, Insight +2, Nature +2, Religion +2, Stealth +2, Streetwise +1, Thievery +2
 
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Pack Outcast Utility: Body of the Wolf
Longtooth Shifter Racial Power: Longtooth Shifting
Multiple Class Utility: Defender Aura
Barbarian Attack: Vengeful Guardian
Barbarian Attack 1: Run Down
Barbarian Attack 1: Stalk and Strike
Barbarian Attack 1: Life-Ending Strike
Barbarian Attack 1: Batter Down
 
FEATS
Level 1: Weapon Expertise (Flail)
 
ITEMS
Hide Armor x1
Adventurer's Kit
Alhulak x1
====== End ======

I will also include my character's written story background, incase you have time to read it, and can more gather the personality and angle that I'm trying to approach with this character. It's not yet finish, btw, not sure if it is worth finishing.


Show

Long blonde dreads hung down around a worn, haggard face. Deep lines of a weathered veteran cracked the empty gaze of the man with his head bowed, arms resting on his kness. His expression gave on the impression he was lost somewhere meditating on something, although what that particular thing may be was impossible to read on the vacant expression.

   Thick snowflakes gracefully floated down from the dull, gray, cloud covered winter sky, drifting lazily, as if trying to savor their last dance before reaching their permanant destination. The cold snow melted under the young boy’s footsteps, his thick hide boots darkening with the moister. The young man was so focused he felt nothing, and smelt only the dampness of the snow around him. The snow crunched under his bound hide boots, thickly insulated with fur to like a snug cocoon of warmth despite the bitterly cold winds and driving snows. As the young boy subconsciously observed, he felt a connection deep within to this one last dance, as if each easy, wind swept movement were done just for him. They moved about him, even as he actively searched through the stiff, dark frozen trees for his prey, hands balled into ready fists, his nostrils flared sniffing out the musty, primal scent of his prey like a predatory animal, as though expecting a confrontation at any moment. His cold breathe escaped from his lips as if finally enjoying the freedom of release, forming a large white cloud before his face. The air currents rapidly shifted, then froze abruptly, as if the whole world were holding its breath, when the ear-splitting roar snapped the silence like an icsicle.
  The boy whirled like a snow lynx, crouching low to face the source of the intimidating sound. His crystal blue eyes seemed like a miniature version of the icey woodlands around him, cold globes scanning, then narrowing, as they locked onto the rapidly approaching arctice dire bear. The beast was 8' feet tall, and heavy, with large, rigid, ice shards splitting from it's fur, like giant quills from an overgrown white porcupine. The young man braced his coiled muscles, hands flexed and ready body trained for this ultimate test as a flurry of sharded ice and white fur collided with flesh. His pulse beat and his only thoughts, his only feelings were those of victory, of the ultimate kill, the rush of conquest.
  Both combatants roared their challenge, as the young man grabbled the enraged dire bear, its instincts kicking in over territory and primal alpha male challenge.  The large bear stared down at the young man with wild, cobalt blue eyes, void of anything but animal rage as it slashed forward with its giant paw. The boy caught the arm of the mighty beast, stepping into the bear, his back slamming into the bears chest, his own heartbeat thundering in his ears over the roar of his enemy. The boy then, holding the arm of the bear with his tremendously powerful right arm, reached back to overhook the monstrous bear's head with his muscular arm using every ounce of his strength, feet wide, legs squat and braced, to bend his nemesis into submission, his will seeping out of him as the primal spirits, the ancestors of the wolf pulsed through him. His eyes flared a deep cobalt blue, and he let loose a wild howl, feeling the surge of the beast overtake him, his mind numb to anything but action, the rush of victory nearing in a crashing wave onto his senses. He stepped back again, into the throw, even as he threw his own weight forward, hurling the bear to the ground off his hip.
  The bears mighty, thrashing jaws snapped and gnashed, seeking the young man's throat, even as the boy took the captured bear arm and began to rip and pry off the bears own claw from its massive paw. Sweat trickled down buldging muscles even as blood and thunder erupted into the frigid, whirling winds. The boy raised the bearclaw high above him in both hands like a sacred dagger in an ancient, primal ritual, his victory complete, raw conquest and elation surging through his heart and soul, resounding with the ancestor wolf, then brought the bear claw downward into a swift, powerful motion, the act of accepting manhood, yet still unaware of the beast that lurked within. Though there was no doubt the this was the first time the beast had reared its ferocious head.

  There was total darkness, save for the orange light of the torch timidly holding the oppressive winter darkness at bay, but not the cold, as its pale light licked the cowled features of a bloody young man with long, blonde dreaded braids that whipped in the wind. He looked both man and beast, covered in blood, gore, and the pure white pelt of the slain dire bear, wrapped tight around his trudging, muscled frame, the blood stained bear claw tied by sinew around his neck. The bearskin cloak was warm, and insulating, a completion to his thick hide chest harness. The winter cold held no sway over this conquerer. The familiar smell of cooking meat met his acute nostrils, and he sniffed in deep, his stomach growling as if it hadn’t eaten in days. He smirked slightly, for tonight would be a great feast, and he could taste the savory, cooked stag meat already. Mouth watering and tender, juicy and hot, it would go well with the hardy potatoes his village grey for sustenance. He returned to his village a man.



  The words, "You're up..barbarian." ripped the lined and craggy blonde veteran from his reverie, cloudy, ice blue eyes gaining clarity like water of a pond freezing in an instant. He rose to his powerful full height of 6'3'', his muscled, scarred frame of 220 lbs, wrapped only in the meagerest of cloth, walked calmly from his frozen stone bench. Metal shackles resounded with the sound of metal on metal in the noise filled room as the warrior went to the gashed and tattered training dummy. He reverently lifted the old, worn, stained, ripped bear skin and light blue leather harness, and draped it over his shoulders and chest like the king of battle. He took up his hard, light light blue hide leather bracers, and the hardened, also light blue, hide gloves and equipped them. He put on his stained, hardened light blue hide pants and boots, each item trimmed in pure white, fluffy fur, the same gear he had worn since he could remember. They created a capsule of warmth against the frigid weather that was so constant in this unforgiving environment. He closed his eyes and reveled in their warm caress on his body. He was often kept in nothing but a loincloth, but the animal within refused to die like a mangy dog. He had the heart of a warrior. He felt nothing but pride when he adorned his tribal garments. He was the beast now, and he felt nothing only the thrill of the hunt, the rush of the kill. He then turned and grasped the icey cold, metal links to his spiked chain, the main weapon of his people, useful for wrapping up prey and dragging them helplessly in for the kill. He then gazed down at his worn, but carefully tended chain as a flood of memories washed over him again.



    A loud sizzling noise steamed into the air as the molten metal met the icey water. The fire danced and crackled, and the smell of burning coal filled the smithery. Pops and crackles filled the air, and there seemed to be a constant clanging of metal on metal. The smell was of heat and metal and mostly smoke. His father took the chain from the icey tub and looked the newly forged links and spikes over, the same cold, frozen landscape gliding over the metal, before tossing it aside.
   "Remember, this weapon is an extention of you, a member of your body that you will carry for the rest of your life."The young man, covered in the recently aquired bear skin cloak slumped down, staring between his legs, head bowed. His words had a hint of impatience, yet mostly a desire to suceed, "I am able to kill a bear with my own hands, yet I can not even craft a meager chain?" He felt a wave of despair overwhelm him, could he really not even forge his own weapon? All of the training, and the practice, the hunt and the kill of the monstrous bear, only to fail at this most crucial step? His heart was burdened with frusteration, and a grim, ancient determination. He would not fail, it was never an option. He would continue to forge, even if it tooks days. A powerful hand rested on the young man's sturdy shoulder, its strength, wisdom and patience seeming to envelope him, and he then stood once more.
   "I understand this is not just a chain, but a lifelong companion. I will ask the metal for guidance and it shall form itself!" the young man declared. He felt relieved, his father’s reassurance had left within his heart the guidance he needed, and the encouragement of an old warrior to a rising one. The old man squeezed his shoulder in his powerful grip, a smile moving as slow as a mountain and just as deeply rooted took his face, "at last you see when you give your chain a name, your weapon shall come to you." After several sweat drenched hours, the spiked chain named Frostbite was born. The young man's icey blue eyes crackled with an intense blue fire as he gazed upon the shining, silvery blue hued, cold metal. The man felt a pride he knew never before, not even as he delivered the final blow on the dire bear. He was now a true warrior, a true man of his tribe. His heart and soul seemed to howl, as the beast resonated with the cold metal in his hands, the glinting, wickedly sharp curved spikes shimmering in the fiery light of the forge.



  A loud whistling sound is interupted by the sound of splintering wood, as the chain spikes buried themself into the wooden column of the training dummy, the links wrapping around as if choking the life from a victim. The grisled, muscled arm ripped the chain from its splintered bed.
   "It's your time, old man, get out there and make yourself useful!" An unlatching sound was heard as the metal shackles fell from the warrior's wrists. The sweet release of freedom. He held his head back and savored it for a moment, his people had always been a free people. The caged beast, however, was ever the vicious beast, and he felt the fury rise within his heart. He then walked down the narrow passageway of the noisy, cluttered holding room. His foot crunched onto the snow, and as soon as it touched down, the snow melted under his foot, the smell of the gore and stench met his acute senses, and the roar of a hundred thousand screaming voices met his ears through the cold, perpetually winter air, as he walked slowly out into the massive arena, his home for the past several years.



  His opponent across from him was also a human, although it was apparent they were not of the same tribe in the north. His opponent had short cut brown hair, and wore no helmet. His age was hard to determine, and about the only thing the two warriors seemed to share were the same icey, cold blue eyes. It seemed as though the landscape itself buried itself into the eyes of those who lived here. The man was built powerfully, just as the warrior was, and was dressed in the white scales of what looked like a jormunger, giant white worms that broke through the surface of the ice to consume those that walked over them. This showed that this man, too, was a capable fighter. The The beast rose, and the man’s mind receded. The beast knew no fear. The beast was a hunter, and this was his prey. The smile of a confident and proud conquerer made an appearance on the veterans  worn, cragged face. He felt not the cold of the wind as it blew mercilessly around him. He heard not the roar of the crowd, neither did he smell their stench, their food, their filth. His mind was a closed trap, and only the instincts of the great ancestor wolf remained. He was ready for battle, his heart filling with the primal spirits, his rage rising, his lust for victory consuming him. The warrior before him  raised his sword in a cautionary stance, and slowly began to circle his opponent in the snow filled, icey floored arena. The snow was so thick that the floor was not slick, and the wetness of melted snow had never penetrated the warm cocoon of his light blue, hardened hide boots, thickly insulated with thick fur. The crowd was roaring all about him like a cocoon of sound, but the only thing he could hear was his own heartbeat. He had been here before, but the first time he found battle would always stick out in his mind.



  It was another cold day in that frigid, northern landscape, as the men of the tribe gathered in the center of town. It was time for the great hunt, a time when the men of village would go out and kill one thing each, then bring it back to down, the icey climate would ensure all the meat would remain preserved, but on that night they would have a feast, marking the start of winter. It was a great, and celebrated day amongst the tribe. It was also the first year he was allowed to participate.  He was nervous, he did not know what to expect, but he was excited. Most of all he was proud. He had his bearskin cloak, warm and well loved, and his hand-forged chain. He was sure it would be the demise of anything he met in the woods. The men all knew what needed to be done, but they held the same ritual every year. They would meet in the center of the village in which they lived, and the elder chieftan would give them a speech. This was all part of the rites of passage, what made this the great hunt. After the speech the men were sent off into the frozen, dark woods, they were evergreen trees, with nearly black bark, the only type that could survive in this environment. They had a unique and crisp smell that sometimes masked the smell of the animals that lived there, but they provided hard, durable wood that burned well, and filled the home with good warmth and an enjoyable scent that tended to linger in the smoke. There was excitement in the hearts of the men, this was a joyous and celebrated time. Spirits were high, and there was a friendly competetive spirit as to who would bring home the biggest kill. The single warriors looked forward to a night of debauchery with the single women in the taverns, if they made a kill worthy of their notice.



I am Red/Green
I am Red/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both instinctive and emotional. I value my own instincts and desires, and either ignore or crush anything that stands in my way; planning and foresight are unnecessary. At best, I'm determined and fierce; at worst, I'm headstrong and infantile.


D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium

The Cahulaks are +2 prof, double weapon with one end having a reach of 3 and the offhand a reach of 6, that can apparently be used as a light shield, and does 1d8 at both ends of the weapon. Considering the amazing versatility of these weapons they look like a good choice.



I'm not sure where the light shield idea comes from.

But the reach is not 3 for one end and 6 for the other, 3/6 is your short and long range for throwing the weapon. When you throw within your short range, you get your full attack bonus. When throwing at the longe range, you get a -2 to attack rolls. I think Spiked Chain is going to give your more benefits overall, and I spoke a bit about more about the Cahuluks power feats in the Berserker guide thread. The fact that they don't require your multiclass makes them better than the spiked chain training feats.
The light shield idea came from the fact that there's a tiny 1 under the name of cahuluks and also the note for the little 1 says it can be used as a light shield, but my eyes might be decieving me :x

I also read some guy say the Gladiator Theme is kind of bad for Aura Defenders, so I chose the Outcast Pack Theme instead, to further support my roleplaying as a werewolf. Is this a wise decision? Since the Gladiator Champion has been ruled as probably black for the Berserker, I'm looking at either the Shifter PP from PHB2 or the Deadly Berserker. Which, in your opinion, is the greater choice? Im thinking I already have some powers prepicked because people have been saying they're super good, like Eye of the Maelstrom and Run Rampant.

Well it is looking more and more like the Spiked Chain is the king weapon, with some close candidates. That said, I did your recommendation and started with Alhuak, and was going to upgrade into the Spiked Chain. At what level I am to do this, I do not know. Second question: Why do I need to multiclass to get Spiked Chain feats, and what are they?

Basically, and I know I'm not supposed to ask, but what is my feat progression going to look like before I can stop worrying about flails and such? I have a vague idea of something like Weapon Training (Flail) then next time I get a feat maybe Weapon proficiency Spiked Chain, then maybe like Multiclass..then do all those chain feats you said..then Improved Defenses..Then the frostcheese..then World Serpents Grasp..then..whatever I want..maybe some shifter racial powers?

Just to show the progess of my character as I've taken and evaluated advice I'm going to show the most recent incarnation of him, and hopefully we can continue to tweak until he's perfect :D This is also to show that I've taken your responses seriously and you can see the impact you're having and that this is not a waste of your precious time. I'd also like to thank you so much for all the attention you've paid my character. We appreciate it
I am Red/Green
I am Red/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both instinctive and emotional. I value my own instincts and desires, and either ignore or crush anything that stands in my way; planning and foresight are unnecessary. At best, I'm determined and fierce; at worst, I'm headstrong and infantile.


D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium

The Feat is Flail Expertise (Beserks are already trained in Flails). Weapon Proficiency Spiked Chain should get you most of what you want, it will only take your multiclass if you want to use it as a Light Blade as well or get some of the Spiked Chain Multiclass stuff (like the powerswap that gives you Threatening Reach).
To be honest I have no idea if that's the same thing the other guy was talking about i.e. dragging flail and so forth, or if that's something different. I really don't know what the best way to maximize my character is. It seems so far it has a lot to do with getting a Spiked Chain and doing everything involved with that, but how far that goes, I do not know. Multiclass has been mentioned, and a lot of talk about flails and feat for flails, but other than that -shrugs-. Which is the best path? MC Spiked Chain, not MC Spiked Chain, going down the Spiked Chain feat list or just keeping it simple with basic flail stuff?

Also nobody responded to my questions about the paragon paths and themes I updated my character to his latest incarnation.
I am Red/Green
I am Red/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both instinctive and emotional. I value my own instincts and desires, and either ignore or crush anything that stands in my way; planning and foresight are unnecessary. At best, I'm determined and fierce; at worst, I'm headstrong and infantile.


D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium

If you want flail tricks, you need MC Fighter, so you can't MC Spiked Chain.  Just the proficiency, Battle Awareness, then Lashing Flail, Dragging Flail, Flail Expertise.  You're sorted.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Is it mandatory to grab Battle Awareness?
I am Red/Green
I am Red/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both instinctive and emotional. I value my own instincts and desires, and either ignore or crush anything that stands in my way; planning and foresight are unnecessary. At best, I'm determined and fierce; at worst, I'm headstrong and infantile.


D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium

It's far and away the best fighter MC feat, you won't struggle to get the stats, and you need to MC fighter, so basically, yeah.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Is it mandatory to grab Battle Awareness?



Not Mandatory, but it is the closest thing to it. The rest of the MC Fighter feats are black at the best.

MC Fighter of some sort IS mandatory to get the flail tricks going to their fullest extent.

These are the feats:



Flail Expertise

Benefit: You gain a +1 feat bonus to weapon attack rolls that you make with a flail. This bonus increases to +2 at 11th level and +3 at 21st level.
    In addition, when you hit with a melee weapon attack using a flail and the attack lets you slide the target, you can knock the target prone instead of sliding it.


Published in Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium, page(s) 23.



Dragging Flail

Heroic Tier
Prerequisite: Dex 15, fighter
Benefit: Whenever you use a flail to knock an enemy prone, you can also slide that enemy 1 square.


Published in Martial Power, page(s) 133.


Lashing Flail

Paragon Tier
Prerequisite: 11th level, any martial class
Benefit: Whenever you use a flail to hit an enemy with a melee basic attack, you can slide that enemy 1 square.


Published in Martial Power 2, page(s) 143.



The second of those feats is why an MC fighter of some sort is required. You can get Battle Awareness by level 4, but you don't have to grab it that early. Lashing Flail should be your L11 feat, and Dragging Flail probably your L10 feat (or an earlier feat should be retrained to this at L11). You should get Flail Expertise earlier on because the +1/2/3 to attack is never a bad thing to have.


How the combo works:


1. You hit an enemy with a melee basic attack


2. Lashing Flail lets you slide the enemy 1 square as part of the attack


3. Flail Expertise lets you knock the target prone instead of sliding it


4. Dragging Flail lets you slide the target


So the end effect is you get to prone a target, and then slide it to a sqaure adjacent to you. This is why a reach flail is pretty much required. The spiked chain being a +3 lets it win over the cahulaks, because the versatility of throwing the cahulaks does not make up for a +1 to attack in this situation.


For a character that leans toward defender, I like the triple headed flail better than spiked chain.  You can take a feat for heavy shield prof(boosting AC and Ref), grab a feat to boost a NAD, and then grab hindering shield.  This lets your OA slow.  The key is then you can prone, slide(a long ways with certain magic items), and slow, effectively negating their current and next turn.
For a character that leans toward defender, I like the triple headed flail better than spiked chain.  You can take a feat for heavy shield prof(boosting AC and Ref), grab a feat to boost a NAD, and then grab hindering shield.  This lets your OA slow.  The key is then you can prone, slide(a long ways with certain magic items), and slow, effectively negating their current and next turn.



Hmm ... that's not a bad option either. I was so focused on spears when I first looked at Berserkers that I completely ignored flails. Flails are pretty awesome.

EDIT: It's too bad there's not a one-handed Reach flail that's accessible to Berserkers. The Whip no longer being the flail, and Scourge of Exquisite Agony being only for Hexblades. Gargleblargledargggarglelaglale.
Ive decided on Ixidor's path of the Spiked Chain and the three feats. Essentially, as a brutal werewolf character, wrapping a spiked chain around an opponents neck then dragging them to his feet leaving them at his mercy is more appealing then a dude with a shield. Shields are not my characters flavor. That said, I'm gonna fill in the gaps with what he said, and do those two feats at level 10 and 11 as he said, take Flail Expertise at level 1, do MC Battle Awareness at level 2, then the filler between I guess 2 and 10 do the frostcheese thing. Frostcheese also flavorwise works with his Frozen heartland and Frostfell background and class features so I mean it's not weird like it would be for an Arid Desert dude, haha.

EDIT: After reading how the Gladiator theme and the PP for it do not synergize with the Berserker, I'm considering the Outcast Pack theme or the Feybeast tamer, and choosing a blink dog and pretending its a wolf, and for my paragon path either the Shifter Racial PP or the Deadly Berserker. How do these choices measure up to other choices?
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I'm both instinctive and emotional. I value my own instincts and desires, and either ignore or crush anything that stands in my way; planning and foresight are unnecessary. At best, I'm determined and fierce; at worst, I'm headstrong and infantile.


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Ive decided on Ixidor's path of the Spiked Chain and the three feats. Essentially, as a brutal werewolf character, wrapping a spiked chain around an opponents neck then dragging them to his feet leaving them at his mercy is more appealing then a dude with a shield. Shields are not my characters flavor. That said, I'm gonna fill in the gaps with what he said, and do those two feats at level 10 and 11 as he said, take Flail Expertise at level 1, do MC Battle Awareness at level 2, then the filler between I guess 2 and 10 do the frostcheese thing. Frostcheese also flavorwise works with his Frozen heartland and Frostfell background and class features so I mean it's not weird like it would be for an Arid Desert dude, haha.

EDIT: After reading how the Gladiator theme and the PP for it do not synergize with the Berserker, I'm considering the Outcast Pack theme or the Feybeast tamer, and choosing a blink dog and pretending its a wolf, and for my paragon path either the Shifter Racial PP or the Deadly Berserker. How do these choices measure up to other choices?



Regarding the Moonstalker PP: the extra damage to prone targets from both the L11 feature and the L16 feature may come in handy, but unless you AP, most enemies are going to stand up before you can hit them while prone (your allies may get the L16 damage in, though). It's an interesting path, but maybe not the most optimal. Flavorwise, it's amazing.

A close blast 5 that targets will is not something you will get from any class features, which is interesting.

Take a look at these two fighter PPs as well as Deadly Berserker: Dreadnought and Kensei. One makes you tougher, the other makes your hit harder. Both are pretty good for a Berserker.

If you are going Arid, and you should if you're doing Spiked Chain, I might suggest taking Unarmored Agility at level 1, then flail expertise at level 2. With your class features an unarmored agility, you can have paladin level AC. It's up to you which you'd rather do, but that's what I'd do.
What's wrong with going frozen heartland and having a spiked chain?
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I'm both instinctive and emotional. I value my own instincts and desires, and either ignore or crush anything that stands in my way; planning and foresight are unnecessary. At best, I'm determined and fierce; at worst, I'm headstrong and infantile.


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Nothing inherently wrong with it, but Arid gets much better bonuses.  What's the problem you have with Arid?
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
What's wrong with going frozen heartland and having a spiked chain?



Nothing is wrong with it. Remember we tend to suggest what we feel is the optimized build a lot. If you want to go frozen, go frozen. Absolutely go frozen. Fort and Will bonus are a good thing to have, but your AC will be a bit lower.

 Let's look at it another way, what's your Dex at? Since you don't have dex as a racial ability you won't get it as high as other races, so I'm assumng you either a 2 or a 3 for your dex mod, depending on how you built your ability scores. So that means you either have a 16 or a 15 AC at level 1, and your class feature Poised Defender active it improves it to 18 or 17. This isn't horrible on a defender, but if you go Arid, you can take Unarmored Agility and get 17/18 without Poised Defender, 19/20 with it.

However, if for roleplay reasons, frozen makes more sense for you, then ignore me and go for it. You don't have to go for the optimized option every time, and you don't have to do anything we tell you to do. We just are brining up other options that you might consider.

EDIT: I'm trying to remember and can't recall, but I thought there was also a way to improve the AC benefits for the hide wearing Berserkers. Anyone know what I'm talking about?
Yea, for the RP I'm going with Frozen, but everything else you've told me I've done. My problem with Arid is that it doesn't fit back backstory of my character, which is in my second post (third post of the discussion, in a spoiler). Otherwise, I think it's really good. I felt like Frozen was also good because I read that the Berserker is weak in the will defense and Frozen gives a nice +1 there so that is always helpful. You are right after the Poised Defender my AC is 19, I think, with Frozen.

EDIT: Yes I remember there being something around pages 10-14 I think in the zerker hand guide that says something about going with Hide Specialzation which gives extra AC and reduces the check penalty, essentially making you equal to Arid Defender in the long run, so the +1 to Fort and Will is kinda like getting that Improved Defenses feat for free, I think.

EDIT EDIT: Found it, page 8 at the bottom.

Cohen8 or something like that said the following:

"I'm not sure I agree. Both grant a +1 feat bonus to AC, but Hide spec negates the check penalty, while shield spec gives a +1 feat bonus to Reflex. Generally by the time you have room for a spec feat either way, you'll want to have at least Improved Defenses, if not the individual ones, both of which give a better feat bonus to Reflex.

I think Hide Spec is the way to go between the two, although the higher Con requirement does kind of suck, but you should have that by Epic anyway, and if you can always take Armor Finesse sooner to at least negate the penalty if that's a legitimate concern (depends on the campaign though, and a -1 isn't likely to make a very big difference)."
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I'm both instinctive and emotional. I value my own instincts and desires, and either ignore or crush anything that stands in my way; planning and foresight are unnecessary. At best, I'm determined and fierce; at worst, I'm headstrong and infantile.


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That's it, it's just the Con investment that steered me away. You have lower defenses now but higher defenses later.

Go for it.
I feel the need to ask ... You are aware that defending against one opponent (Gladiator/Duelist/Knights Challenge style) is the absolute worst and most useless method of defending, and you'll be a hindrance to your party if you follow through with that tactic. An extra player character increases the number of creatures the party will face, and your ability to negate those extra creatures won't be perfect (burst/blasts, managing to daze you and slip past, etc.) so by only engaging 1 creature at a time (ideally an elite? really?) as a defender, you will end up costing your party more resources than if you weren't there.

The entire concept behind the Berserker is flawed because you can't go from Striker to Defender, only from Defender to Striker. Ramping up the damage to smash foes, when you've entered the mop-up rounds, is practically the definition of "Wasted Effort". The biggest strength of the class is that you get a very nice "surprise-round/low-Initiative charging beatdown" defense (which every eDefender with an Aura basically has) and can then go smashy when you actually get to go.

Be a defender, and actually defend, or be a striker who's very tough in the first rounds.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Well alright then. I was actually planning on being an offtank. It's hard to describe, it's like while the main tain is defending and such, I'd pull one guy aside and then defeat him solo, while the rest of the party works to defeat the rest of the monsters, then turn on striker mode and help clean up.

I'm sorry I like the Berserker class, I don't see it as flawed, in my opinion. I don't see going into hulk mode as wasted effort, either. ;/
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I'm both instinctive and emotional. I value my own instincts and desires, and either ignore or crush anything that stands in my way; planning and foresight are unnecessary. At best, I'm determined and fierce; at worst, I'm headstrong and infantile.


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Just so you know, you just described a pursuit avenger.  They even come with powers like "hit this one guy for 2d12+8, and then teleport him and yourself 6 squares away from the party.  And if he runs away from you, you get to a +8 bonus to damage when you beat him silly next round."

If you want a mark, and are going to hit paragon, Tactical Warpriest comes to mind.

Good defenses?  Check.  Good HP & Surges?  Check.  Giant weapon and insufficient armor?  Check.  Trivially easy ability to take a monster off to the side?  Check.

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima

Well alright then. I was actually planning on being an offtank. It's hard to describe, it's like while the main tain is defending and such, I'd pull one guy aside and then defeat him solo, while the rest of the party works to defeat the rest of the monsters, then turn on striker mode and help clean up.

I'm sorry I like the Berserker class, I don't see it as flawed, in my opinion. I don't see going into hulk mode as wasted effort, either. ;/


I know people make the comparison often, but this isn't WoW where off-tanking like that is actually a thing because there is no Defender that can maintain perfect threat (stickyness), nearly every enemy is Onyxia (multi-target attacks, breath, and "I'm going over here and you can't stop me" powers), and party resources are far more limited. Most of what I'm saying isn't "This won't work" but "This is an inferior tactic that won't work in most games". The only success you're going to have (and you actually will, contrary to what I appear to be saying) is because your DM doesn't understand how the game works.

The reason hulk mode mop-up is useless, is because you don't need hulk to do any mopping, jubilee can do the mopping. I'm not saying not to fury, I'm saying don't invest heavilly in your damage if your main goal is sticky defending.

Oh, you should probably put the 14, or 15 in Wis if you're going to be bumping that, a 16/17 and a 13 nets you +1 Will versus 14/15 and 15.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
You're also wasting resources trying to do both, and in the end, will be less effective at either.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Eh, again, pursuit avenger can do the off-tank thing while not losing much in strikerdom.  It's not optimal tactics for the team, usually, but can work well for an individual.

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima

But Pursuit Avengers I like more than Berzerkers
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
... Be a defender, and actually defend, or be a striker who's very tough in the first rounds.



It probably would work best, tactically, to think of this guy as a tough striker rather than an off-tank, because of the focus on a single target. A true defender can influence multiple targets.

That said, it can occasionally be useful to lock down a single target if that critter is a significant threat that the defender or controller can't get to right away, and provided the rest of the party is able to focus fire on the main threat. 

But be careful not to isolate a target just because you can. If the situation is in control, your party is better served if you help take out the primary threat quickly and not worry much about defending.
So I should focus mostly on the striker part, and less on the defender part of the class?

Let me put this another way: what is the main idea behind the berserjer? There's a reason I chose this class and not an avenger or a fighter or a warlord. I love barbarians. That said my DM and I dont know what we will have as far as party make up goes. There are no humans in his campaign, and depending on what he assigns people, because theyre all brand new to the game, we might not have a defender. Barbarian is my favorite class. Now I could have been o-barb and just said "im the defender" but really there are no promises the DM would focus all the monsters on me or that the o-barb could even surive. The berserker was the perfect solution to this party dilema.

So what do I do? How do I approach this character? Scrap the title of the thread, new question: what is the most optimized berserker for my particular situation? Grab all martial powers and pretend im a fighter with the primal subsource and sometimes fury when its "in the clear"?
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Remember that this is the OP forum.

The point of a Berserker is more to have fun and experience another difference mechanic rather that "being the best". That means as long as your DM does not make encounters based on the overall competence of your group or player, and use general encounters that is not in "hard-mode', your berserker character might be doing fine.

There are many ways of seeing if a character is good.

One is comparing one to another and see which has more strength, which is what usually the OP forum focuses upon.

The other is to see if the character can perform decently in an ordianry fight without TPK. That means it might take longer for a less optimized character to finish one encounter, maybe the same character would as well spend more resources, dealing less damage and fight longer than a more-optimized character. However, if he/she/it pulls through anyway in the end, it is consdered "good" or at least "decent". The OP forum has done a series of tests, too, about this aspect. And from what I've seen, even the binder, the worst controller ever seem to work fine.

But you will never cease to hear that binders are so bad that they need to improved, because this is OP forum and we would rather not limit our sight to a single point or way of view.

Besides, binders are really almost the worst controllers ever out there (there,  see, I said it) XD
If you are looking to "off-tank" and still have the destruction of a striker, try building a dwarf whirling fighter with two Waraxes (through dwarven weapon training and axe expertise). Without the heavy armor, you can RP it as a dwarf bezerker in name and output A LOT of damage while remaining sticky. I really think that by your questions and explanation of what you are envisioning, this is what you would be looking for (it would be much more enjoyable than playing a bezerker...in the long game).
No, binders suck because they are entirely obsoleted by Warlocks. Kinda similarly, Berzerkers have such bad martial power choices you're better off sticking to the primal side, at which point its comparing Berzerker and O-barb features instead of "this one is a striker, this a defender."
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
One thing that often goes overlooked by CharOp (or rather is frequently dismissed by CharOp) is versatility.  It's tough to quantify, and doesn't compare favorably in a strict by-the-numbers comparison, but when you're in an encounter and a job needs to get done now, having the capabilities to do that job is a huge boon.  Perhaps the primary defender is unconscious and the TWF Ranger is low on surges.  The Berserker steps in to keep the heat off the Ranger until the regular defender can get back up.  Maybe a particularly dangerous enemy is wailing on the party.  Maybe it's a skirmisher that's particularly good at evading defender tactics.  The Berserker sees this, and says "screw it, I'm going into Fury right now to take this guy out."  Some people may even prefer the Berserker if their party composition changes from week to week, allowing him to fill in for either a defender or a striker.

Still, it is generally better to specialize in one thing, and IMO damage is probably the way to go.  For one thing striker Berserkers can use most of the O-Barb's support, making them nearly as good at striking (they're short Rampage and Feral Might, which only the Rageblood's really adds damage).  To make up for having slightly less damage potential, even a striker-focused Berserker is more durable than an O-barb (until his turn comes up or CoS is used he'll have the defender aura and its AC boost up, he'll either have a Shield or the Arid benefit +UA, and Berserk Vitality gives him a great THP cushion).  So from a pure optimization standpoint he gains enough that he's not blatantly inferior to the O-barb even if played strictly as a striker.

Optimizing for damage will also help the defender side of things, whereas optimizing strictly for sticky helps you as a defender but not as a striker.  This is because Vengeful Guardian is soft control, albeit very potent soft control.  While most pure defenders will impose some form of hard denial or mitigation on their disobedient enemies, some rely more on dealing a ton of damage (defending by threat), and this is the case for many defenders at lower levels before all of that stickiness optimization kicks in.  A Berserker's punishment hits hard, and even moreso if you've optmized strictly for damage.  Depending on DM tactics you'll either be striking anyways (through extra attacks via VG), or the monsters will try to avoid the damage in which case your "psychological stickiness" is just as potent as mechanical stickiness.  Most of the guys that DM in my group tend to avoid triggering punishment so when I DM I worry a lot less about stickiness than most people on the CharOp forums.  In those circumstances the Berserker is actually a really effective defender because it's easy to get really high AC and resources can be spent on damage.  Damage is never wasted on a defender because they tend to pound on the guy being focus-fired (so that everyone doing the focus-firing is protected from retaliation). 



To answer your question, yes the Berserker is a very good solution to your circumstances.  It performs at least baseline for both roles, with the possibility of being optimized in either direction (namely Flails for a defender, and obvious damage op for a striker).  I would advise leaning toward the striker side of things, since you'll be able to off-tank if needed (albeit not as well as a pure defender) and won't be too far behind an O-Barb.  Even in a Fury your damage will make you threatening enough that you won't likely be ignored, and you'll be tough enough to take quite a bit of punishment (more than an O-barb). 

But most importantly, Barbarians are your favorite class.  The Berserker's mechanics evoke the Barbarian feel very well (at least IMO), so you'll probably be more satisfied playing one than re-flavoring a different (possibly slightly more optimized) class.  I doubt you'll notice any "deficiencies" percieved by CharOp in play.
One thing that often goes overlooked by CharOp (or rather is frequently dismissed by CharOp) is versatility.  It's tough to quantify, and doesn't compare favorably in a strict by-the-numbers comparison, but when you're in an encounter and a job needs to get done now, having the capabilities to do that job is a huge boon. 



Except, oh ****, I already used a primal power. My b. Sorry I can't defend anymore.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Funny how nothing you say is helpful to me zelink.

That aside, Alien I appreciate your post and I'm going to go with what you said. What does maximizing my striker side mean? Just take the best o-barb powers? Go for all primal powers as encounter and dailies and go into fury asap? Also I like how you pointed out that Barbarian is my favorite class.  No, I don't want to play a dwarf whirling fighter. I want to play a berserker. Thank you for getting that.

A longtooth berserker to be exact. it may not be the "best" race for the class, and that's fine. I'm trying to RP as a werewolf, and it's important to the savage flavor of my class, another reason i choose a PRIMAL BERSERKER. Werewolf, survival, savagery, brutality, animalistic..this is the flavor of the character. The ancient wolf ancestor being channeled during furies, during the encounter power of the longtooth shifter..it's all tied together. That said, it does sound more strikerish than defender anyway, so I'm glad you suggest it.

Is the Spiked Chain and the 3 feat associated with Flails the best for Striker? or should I get a gouge?

EDIT: I changed the first post of the thread. If I could change the title of the thread, I would.
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dwarf whirling fighter

Was that supposed to be a Whirling Slayer Barbarian, or a Tempest Fighter?

I'd guess the latter, since you talk about remaining sticky, and Barbarians other than the Berserker are pretty much not sticky.

------------------------

What gets the Binder labelled as bad is that it's a subclass of Warlock, and a straight-up-original Warlock can do everything the Binder does - only better.
 
"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
I dont want to be sticky anymore I want to do what Alien told me to do and work on striking, as a berserker. Not the o-barb.
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Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both instinctive and emotional. I value my own instincts and desires, and either ignore or crush anything that stands in my way; planning and foresight are unnecessary. At best, I'm determined and fierce; at worst, I'm headstrong and infantile.


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Then why on earth are you playing the class? I can't make heads or tails of this, and I deeply apologize for not being helpful, I'm always here to help
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Because I want the defender option. It's better to have and not need than to not have and need. I explained the whole situation earlier in this thread somewhere.

Secondly, let me give you the low down so hopefully you can catch up on the thread. Basically this is the advice I've gotten, and so I've tailored my questions and character accordingly: First Ixidor explained the whole flails thing, resulting in Spiked Chains being the best flail, and doing the three flail feats, MCing into fighter. Cool. Got that. It's getting done.

Secondly I was explained that SINGLE TARGET defending is dumb, and will hurt my party. Instead either be defender or don't. I don't know if I'm going to be the sole defender of my party or if I'm going to be sort of in the perma-offtank role. We have new players who are so far so confused about the game the DM is going to just give them premade characters. like "Here's a halfling rogue, here's a human fighter, here's an eladrin wizard" and then there's me. But who knows, maybe he doesn't assign anyone a defender. Good thing I'm a berserker and not an o-barbarian so I can step up to the task.

Third, Alien made a lengthy and good reply saying basically yes the berserker is perfect for my kinda unknown group make up. Second he said to focus on going striker, and third he said because the barbarian is my favorite class i'll get more out of it than playing a reflavored warrior or some crap I don't want to do.

Can you call heads or tails now? :3

Basically to answer your question "Why on earth are you playing the class": I don't know my group make up. We might not have a defender, so I can step in using THIS class, but omg it's ALSO a barbarian, my FAVORITE class, so freakin sweet! However if I am the secondary defender then when i Fury I can do tons of striker level damage. Yay best of both worlds. :3
I am Red/Green
I am Red/Green
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Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both instinctive and emotional. I value my own instincts and desires, and either ignore or crush anything that stands in my way; planning and foresight are unnecessary. At best, I'm determined and fierce; at worst, I'm headstrong and infantile.


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And you said this, which made me confused. Ah well, enjoy the class.

I dont want to be sticky anymore I want to do what Alien told me to do and work on striking, as a berserker. Not the o-barb.



10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Oh, well then let me rephrase that: I don't want to optimize to the max stickiness, aka defending. I just want to be proficient enough when i need to if i need to.
I am Red/Green
I am Red/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both instinctive and emotional. I value my own instincts and desires, and either ignore or crush anything that stands in my way; planning and foresight are unnecessary. At best, I'm determined and fierce; at worst, I'm headstrong and infantile.


D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium