Advice for Moving to Ebberon?

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Hey I'm new to the community here, so I hope this is the right place to post this, but I'm looking for some advice.

I'm currently DMing a campaign set in the Nentier Vale (unsure if this setting has a different name).  I ran The Twisting Halls and am about done with Reavers of Harkenwold and I want to start writing my own adventures. I flipped through an Ebberon campaign guide a little while ago and it looked like a really fun setting to run a game in and I think my players would like it. From what I read, all of the regular 4E rules and miscellany apply to Ebberon so I wouldn't have to ask my players to re-roll or anything, but is there a good way to get them from the Vale to Ebberon?

Maybe I need to read through the whole setting guide (which I will do after I get some cash to pick it up) but could I just say that they've been there the whole time or do I actually need to come up with an idea of how to change settings? I could just have them find a dimensional gateway or go through Sigil or something, but if there's a really slick way to do this or something I'm overlooking that the pros here are aware of I'd really appreciate your input.

Thanks!
Welcome to Eberron. These boards have died down from their heyday, but there's still a few of us who visit regularly.

I'm unfamiliar with The Twisting Halls and Reavers of Harkenwold, so I can't give you any help with a transition.  Tell us about them. I also don't know how much you've told your players about the setting. Its possible that you can just say, "Oh, you were in the Eldeen Reaches all along."  The only problem is that Eberron is heavily influenced by the Last War, and the huge political, social, economic, magical, and ethical changes and problems it created. So, having people who were totally untouched by that would seem.....quite odd.

But, I'm sure you can figure something out.  I'll be checking back, and hopefully others will as well.

Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid

Copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade.

"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,

"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all." -Kipling

 

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57019168 wrote:
I am a hero, not a chump.
I think typically at low levels you can pretty easily make the switch.  (I cannot say for certain either, but since most things are small scale you can usually just say you were in this section of the world, and now the map is bigger).  About the only problem is going to be religion, that I can really forsee.

Eberron is my favorite campaign setting because I love the kind of pulpy Indiana Jones feel, combined with a magic as technology theme.  Still before making any final switches I do recomand reading the campaign setting to see if your really going to like it.
Welcome,

One approach to smooth the transition from those early adventures could be to set your campaign's start-time at at one of the conflicts from the early pre-Galifar nations (since its less cannoned - names and geography conflicts will be easier to smooth down with the players).

Then you find a cool way to move the PCs to present-time Eberron (they turn into stone and wake up in a museum, the Keeper had their souls, spent some time in a fey manifestation zone, Elvish necrotic preservation ritual, Dhakanni eldrich machine with a nasty side-effect for non-Goblins etc...)

And you can check this board's "Eberron - List of Resources " sticky thread for some useful Eberron reading (until you buy the ECG).
Welcome, One approach to smooth the transition from those early adventures could be to set your campaign's start-time at at one of the conflicts from the early pre-Galifar nations (since its less cannoned - names and geography conflicts will be easier to smooth down with the players). Then you find a cool way to move the PCs to present-time Eberron (they turn into stone and wake up in a museum, the Keeper had their souls, spent some time in a fey manifestation zone, Elvish necrotic preservation ritual, Dhakanni eldrich machine with a nasty side-effect for non-Goblins etc...) And you can check this board's "Eberron - List of Resources " sticky thread for some useful Eberron reading (until you buy the ECG).



That's a really good starting place. At the very least I can now go look up what all that stuff is. In terms of mechanics that sounds pretty good, but what about disconnecting from the current campaign? It seems that if there isn't a way to return the Vale as the players know it (either by dimensional changing, or time displacement etc) then my players will instantly lose all of the relationships they've built with NPCs and histories they may have with places. They're only level 4 at the moment, so that's not too much yet, but if I look at it from the prespective of a player, having the setting changed suddenly might kinda piss me off if I felt a solid connection with the world. What I've been considering is giving the players and in-game choice to move to the new setting. Players who leave their character in the Vale because they don't think that the character would leave would then re-roll an Ebberon character. The advantage of this would be that my players would have the option of making an Ebberon centric character (warforged etc) but the downside is that rather than making players abbandon relationships I would be making them abbandon their characters altogether, which seems like it would probably be just as bad, if not worse.\

I do kind of like the time shift idea in concept though. What I'm trying to set up is a conflict between Vecna and The Raven Queen (and maybe Orcus but I'm not a huge fan of Orcus) that the players would take part in. Being thrust forward in time would allow me to set up the players as a rebellious force against the villain who has achieved total victory in their absence.

tl;dr: Thanks for the tips. I'll read up and try to settle on a good plan that doesn't piss off my players.
A conflict between Vecna and the Raven Queen/Orcus? I'm not sure if that would fit in Eberron, since....neither Vecna or the Raven Queen exists. I'm not even sure about Orcus.

Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid

Copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade.

"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,

"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all." -Kipling

 

Miss d20 Modern? Take a look at Dias Ex Machina Game's UltraModern 4e!

 

57019168 wrote:
I am a hero, not a chump.
If you want to say that the Nentir Vale is part of Eberron, stick it in northeastern Karrnath.  It's rural enough that you're not changing anything too dramatic.

Vecna and Orcus both work really well as 2 of the Overlords that are bound within Khyber.

What I would do with the Raven Queen is have her be a martyr of the Church of the Silver Flame.  Her name is lost to time, her history and actions are controversial (hence being Unaligned in a Lawful Good Church) but she is venerated by a number of paladins and grim minded folk.  Or she could be an aspect of the Traveler.

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I prefer Next because 4E players and CharOpers can't find their ass without a grid and a power called "Find Ass."

A conflict between Vecna and the Raven Queen/Orcus? I'm not sure if that would fit in Eberron, since....neither Vecna or the Raven Queen exists. I'm not even sure about Orcus.



One of the things I did manage to read in the Ebberon guide was that everything that exists in regular D&D is also in Ebberon. Is there a deity section that contradicts this later?
There was an intersting thread about the placment of Vecna in Eberron: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
Hmm... reading a bit of that makes me wonder if I should be moving to Ebberon at all if I want to keep the war of undeath (that's what I'm going to call it probably) as a plot line. It seems I may have to abbandon one or the other. Or maybe it would be interesting to see the effects of the proof of gods on the people of Ebberon. I dunno. I just need to read the setting more first.
A conflict between Vecna and the Raven Queen/Orcus? I'm not sure if that would fit in Eberron, since....neither Vecna or the Raven Queen exists. I'm not even sure about Orcus.

Orcus does fit in the EBBERON setting due to the AGE OF MONSTERS. Orcus was the deity of the DHAKAANI hobgoblins before their empire fell.
Try matching simailar attributes of vecena and one of the dark six. that may help a bit. you can also create npcs to be related to your current nps so that connection isnt lost . maybe a rip van winkle line may help and the world moved on while the pcs were in a temporal stasis. makes a jaw dropping world strange and new from what they knew and a year after THE LAST WAR. hopes this helps
Orcus does fit in the EBBERON setting due to the AGE OF MONSTERS. Orcus was the deity of the DHAKAANI hobgoblins before their empire fell.



Citation needed. The Dhakaani Empire was noted to be agnostic/atheistic. Its possible that some started worshipping Orcus as the empire was falling and devolving into civil war and whatnot, but for the bulk of their empire? No gods.

As to your last post, Glowinghyren, you probably should look into Eberron more. It has a drastically different feel than most fantasy settings because of its heavy pulp/noir influence, "shades of grey" approach, and the fact that the socioeconomic ramifications of magic are actually explored. Granted, you could modify Eberron to suit your needs, but that comes at a cost of possibly weakening the setting. For instance, the fact that the re is a question of gods in Eberron (as in, if they actually exist) may be weakened if you start putting in gods that obviously exist 'cause hey, they're unleashing armies of dead things.

Of course, if you just want to play with undeath in general, check out Karrnath and the Emerald Claw. 

Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid

Copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade.

"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,

"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all." -Kipling

 

Miss d20 Modern? Take a look at Dias Ex Machina Game's UltraModern 4e!

 

57019168 wrote:
I am a hero, not a chump.
Orcus does fit in the EBBERON setting due to the AGE OF MONSTERS. Orcus was the deity of the DHAKAANI hobgoblins before their empire fell.



Citation needed. The Dhakaani Empire was noted to be agnostic/atheistic. Its possible that some started worshipping Orcus as the empire was falling and devolving into civil war and whatnot, but for the bulk of their empire? No gods.

As to your last post, Glowinghyren, you probably should look into Eberron more. It has a drastically different feel than most fantasy settings because of its heavy pulp/noir influence, "shades of grey" approach, and the fact that the socioeconomic ramifications of magic are actually explored. Granted, you could modify Eberron to suit your needs, but that comes at a cost of possibly weakening the setting. For instance, the fact that the re is a question of gods in Eberron (as in, if they actually exist) may be weakened if you start putting in gods that obviously exist 'cause hey, they're unleashing armies of dead things.

Of course, if you just want to play with undeath in general, check out Karrnath and the Emerald Claw. 

Actully in the adventure of WHISPERS OF THE VAMPIRE'S BLADE, in the CHAMBER of ASCENSION it gives the description of a 25ft tall statue of a bat-wingged,ram headed demon from an ancient age.
In the 3 edtion BOOK OF VILE DARKNESS IT ALSO GIVES THE SAME DESCRIPSTION of Orcus. Yes the setting does have a large gray area and the belief of deities is ify. And the choice to beleive in something after the last war , when winning a war was the only belief. But imagination goes along way as well. Also Dhakaani empire as mentioned in the campagin setting impacts the setting as a lost empire.
Orcus does fit in the EBBERON setting due to the AGE OF MONSTERS. Orcus was the deity of the DHAKAANI hobgoblins before their empire fell.



Citation needed. The Dhakaani Empire was noted to be agnostic/atheistic. Its possible that some started worshipping Orcus as the empire was falling and devolving into civil war and whatnot, but for the bulk of their empire? No gods.

As to your last post, Glowinghyren, you probably should look into Eberron more. It has a drastically different feel than most fantasy settings because of its heavy pulp/noir influence, "shades of grey" approach, and the fact that the socioeconomic ramifications of magic are actually explored. Granted, you could modify Eberron to suit your needs, but that comes at a cost of possibly weakening the setting. For instance, the fact that the re is a question of gods in Eberron (as in, if they actually exist) may be weakened if you start putting in gods that obviously exist 'cause hey, they're unleashing armies of dead things.

Of course, if you just want to play with undeath in general, check out Karrnath and the Emerald Claw. 

Also cheching out  the Blood of Vol where the belief is undeath is a path to divinity.
Anyways suggestions for using Orcus and Vecna in Eberron.

Orcus is a Rakshasha Raja, so he is sealed up in Khyber.  Or just a really powerful demon who succeds at stealing power from a Raja.

Vecna works fine as the Shadow.  Some group might just uses an out of date name for him.  The Shadow is the closest of the dieties to him I would say being big on evil magic and secrets.

Anyway one of the only exceptions to the everything in D&D is in Eberron is dieties, (mind you this is also the case for both Forgotten Realms and Dark Sun). Eberron is set up similar to the real world were you have believers but no one has proof of their existence.  Yes someone who worships the Shadow has magical powers but so does a guy who worships an actual living dragon, or the guy who worships his own inner divinity (Blood of Vol).  Basically faith grants power in Eberron (which is even subject to debate).
Ok, I got the book today and took a peek at the gods section. From what I can tell from what I've gleaned so far is that the gods of Ebberon don't even necessarily line up with the gods of standard 4e. What I mean is: It looks like it's not just a question if the default gods exist, but if anyone's even ever heard of them. It looks like I can make undead a major part of this if I fudge vecna a bit or replace him, but what I'm wondering now is: two of my players are divine powered (a cleric of Kord and an invoker of Ioun (he's also a shardmind which may cause other problems, but that's not the point)). How do their powers, feats etc, some of which are tied directly in name to standard 4e gods, find a place in Ebberon?

Having taken a further look at the guide this really looks like a place that I want to take my PCs, but I think I could still use a lot of help figuring this all out. Thanks for all your help so far, I've got a ways to go it appears.

EDIT: I just remembered that my PC who is an invoker gets his power from using his god's name. How would that work? Maybe I need to do some more research on my PC's powers as well. (That's probably just a good idea in general though).

EDIT 2: I already spend enough money on books and supplies for my game, but would having one of my players pick up the Ebberon player's guide help?
OK the current world of Ebberon gets a large part of its magic, divine or arcane from three legendary dragons that impacted and molded Khorvaire as we know it. You can compare Kord and Ioun to the Ebberon patheon and say that their powers feats etc. from both places. As for your invoker look the PATH OF LIGHT to replace Ioun. As for Kord replace him with Dol Dorn. Someone said to use SHADOW for Vecna you might go that route. Its going to be alot of work to change over to 4e. Hope this helps.
That's what I've been looking into: finding a mirror of the current gods. BUT I can't just say "Hey you PCs. You worship these guys now." I can't just force them to change their deity. That'd be a pretty terrible thing to do (if I could even convince them to).
Something else I'm wondering as I read though this is how I would make the history skill make any sense. In a place that the PCs are new to how would any of them know anything about it?

Hmm... The more I read and think about doing this, the harder it seems like it will be to accomplish. I'd be a lot easier to just start a campaign there, but I'm not going to ask them to start over and I'm sure as heck not starting a 3rd simultaneous campaign.
So I'll throw out some ideas, Kord is closest to Dol Dorn I guess (not a real good fit though), Ioun is similar to Aureon (still not a great fit).  You can run your characters as nontraditional faithful though.  The Sovereign Host is a big faith and many people in Eberron have their own views on them as it lacks a central church.
That would work as well, but the characters would be strange outcasts. The other problem is they wont know anything else of the new world they begin to wander. Unless a NPC becomes a tourist guide at a price. ( I would make it a huge price )  So I'm out of ideas.
Something else I'm wondering as I read though this is how I would make the history skill make any sense. In a place that the PCs are new to how would any of them know anything about it?

Hmm... The more I read and think about doing this, the harder it seems like it will be to accomplish. I'd be a lot easier to just start a campaign there, but I'm not going to ask them to start over and I'm sure as heck not starting a 3rd simultaneous campaign.

You could do a foreshadowing by creating a handout of a dream and gives a breif summary of the new world. Check the vision spell to help you out.
That would work as well, but the characters would be strange outcasts. The other problem is they wont know anything else of the new world they begin to wander. Unless a NPC becomes a tourist guide at a price. ( I would make it a huge price )  So I'm out of ideas.



Well, if I need to get them some data on the current state of the world I can do that. I was thinking that they'd enter Ebberon in some sort of flashy manner (running battle, big explosion etc.) which would catch the attention of some group (as yet unknown, maybe one of the houses) who would then explain things to them in exchange for their services. I'm more concerned at this point with making the gods transfer in some manner and making the history skill make sense.

In regards to the latter, I've been thinking that the players would have to pass a skill challenge to regain their training in skills that are world defendant (history, streetwise, dungeoneering, nature). This could involve straight up research in a library or just wandering the world for a while (likely the city of towers).
You could offer history classes at Morgrave, and then fast-forward a year....

Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid

Copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade.

"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,

"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all." -Kipling

 

Miss d20 Modern? Take a look at Dias Ex Machina Game's UltraModern 4e!

 

57019168 wrote:
I am a hero, not a chump.
That would work as well, but the characters would be strange outcasts. The other problem is they wont know anything else of the new world they begin to wander. Unless a NPC becomes a tourist guide at a price. ( I would make it a huge price )  So I'm out of ideas.



Well, if I need to get them some data on the current state of the world I can do that. I was thinking that they'd enter Ebberon in some sort of flashy manner (running battle, big explosion etc.) which would catch the attention of some group (as yet unknown, maybe one of the houses) who would then explain things to them in exchange for their services. I'm more concerned at this point with making the gods transfer in some manner and making the history skill make sense.

In regards to the latter, I've been thinking that the players would have to pass a skill challenge to regain their training in skills that are world defendant (history, streetwise, dungeoneering, nature). This could involve straight up research in a library or just wandering the world for a while (likely the city of towers).

House Deneith or House Thuranni would be to catch notice of your PCs.
Something I'm noticing is that the descriptions of the actual dragonmarks isn't that thorough in the campain guide. I wish there were pictures of the actual marks along with what they do. I assume that the player guide has at least the latter since being dragonmarked is a possibility for PCs.
Something I'm noticing is that the descriptions of the actual dragonmarks isn't that thorough in the campain guide. I wish there were pictures of the actual marks along with what they do. I assume that the player guide has at least the latter since being dragonmarked is a possibility for PCs.

You might have to check the supplement Dragonmarked, should have more history of the houses.
So I poked through the players guide for Ebberon and it had the stuff I wanted to know about the Dragonmaks, but it also seemed to indicate that Shardminds aren't really found in Ebberon, at least not to the point where most people would recognize one. As I understand it they're pieces of the "Living Gate" which seals off either the Elemental Chaos or the Far Plane (I can't remember which) but I don't know if the cosmology of Ebberon even allows for that. AND even if it does, the PC wouldn't be a part of Ebberon's living gate if he was from a different world (this would be solved if I use the time-travel transition, but I'm leaning more and more away from that), he would be additional and the living gate of his homeworld would never be completed unless he went back (which isn't really the plan). I dunno. I just find it problematic that I have a PC with a quest built into his race that I don't think will be all that interesting to follow, but which is already something he's made the other PCs promise to help him with. I dunno. Maybe he'll volunteer to stay behind. I'm considering giving them a one-time use go back home portal so that anyone who doesn't think that their character fits in Ebberon or would like to make an Ebberon themed character can have that opportunity. There would just have to be some reason that they couldn't all go back.

I hope that wasn't too rambly, I'm just kind of bouncing ideas off of everyone. Let me know if any of that seems...bad.
Shardminds could be the Warforged Cannith created to go all psychic. Granted, that wouldn't help your PC at all. And may also lead to odd situations where the mechanics don't match up to the fluff (not needing to sleep/eat/etc).

Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid

Copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade.

"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,

"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all." -Kipling

 

Miss d20 Modern? Take a look at Dias Ex Machina Game's UltraModern 4e!

 

57019168 wrote:
I am a hero, not a chump.
Shardminds could also be fragments of Xoriat. The realm of madness draws close to Eberron from time to time, and major invasions happened in the far past. Perhaps the Shardmind is a chunk of land from that realm, with an inherent intelligence, that came over during the old invasion. It's been dormant for millenia now, and the land has altered it into a mind more like those around him.

Then recently, it was found (for example by an expedition in Xen'Drink or such) and awoken. Now it's up and moving, more or less a regular mind and looking for a purpose.

Something like that.
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Shardminds could also be fragments of Xoriat. The realm of madness draws close to Eberron from time to time, and major invasions happened in the far past. Perhaps the Shardmind is a chunk of land from that realm, with an inherent intelligence, that came over during the old invasion. It's been dormant for millenia now, and the land has altered it into a mind more like those around him.

Then recently, it was found (for example by an expedition in Xen'Drink or such) and awoken. Now it's up and moving, more or less a regular mind and looking for a purpose.

Something like that.



That'd be a good idea for getting someone who wanted to start as a shardmind in Ebberon going, but my problem is moving an existing shardmind to Ebberon. The only work-around that I can think of is that he was always from Ebberon (which I'm considering applying to one of my other players) but I'm not sure why he would have forgotten being there.
If your moving the party to Eberron, you really don't have to bother with creating a place for Shardminds, (although Eberron does have a history of psiforged).  The character himself will be a unique one of a kind being (unless you have two) sure, but there isn't anything wrong with that.  As a matter of fact you can do this with all your characters if they travel there through teleportation or whatever from a different world.  They will be oddities for a while, (I wouldn't even penalize them for certain things like streetwise or religion, just havem them pick up similarities until they have been there for a while.
Right, I can see that, but as a shardmind his main life goal is to rebuild the living gate which probably doesn't even exist in Ebberon. He also made the other characters promise to help him do it, so unless I just force them to ignore it then I should address the living gate or lack thereof.
Not a problem although Eberron lacks the living gate, they do have problems with incursions from the Far Realm (Xoriat actually but same thing) so there is no reason he cannot build a living gate.  

Things that you could tie in for instance the Sybris (I spelled that wrong) ring a massive collection of dragonshards (magical crystals) that float around the planet.  Dealkyr the leaders of the last invasion locked within Kyhber (underdark).  The Becoming God which is a religion that a group of Warforged follow where they are trying to build a body for a god.
Hmm. That's not a bad idea.
Without changing the setting and/or hand-waiving quite a bit, I think you're going to have a tough time with these PCs.

You've been given a lot of suggestions on how you might be able to make it work, so I'm going to offer a different take. Why not simply ask if they'd like to play in Eberron, as it's written, and allow them to create new characters of equal level? If they're down, great; if they're not, you can still play in Eberron another time.

This is your group's first taste of Eberron. In your position, I'd want to experience Eberron's unique flavor. Shoe-horning outside material into the setting will definitely water it down, and lessen its unique atmosphere. I'm not trying to be a killjoy. I just wanted to offer a different point of view.

The canon settings presented in the Campaign Guides are just starting points, and we all do what we will from that starting point. That said, you guys would be starting very, very far from the world most of us would recognize as Eberron.

I guess I could sum up my feelings in this way: Why start seasoning the food before you've even tasted it? Don't you want to experience the chef's recipe before you start pouring on the salt? Eberron is a hell of a feast, made all the more so by its differences from the other settings. That's my two cents.

What happened to my post count? It seems the more I post, the more it drops. Is that how it's supposed to work?

That's a totally valid prespective and that would certainly be a lot easier. The problem being that we've been running a game now for almost half of a year (I know that's not a lot to some groups, but I consider it to be a lot) and to switch settings and roll new characters would throw out all of the character development and story that we've been developing for the last 6 months. I know at least 2 of my players wouldn't mind, but I think the others would probably be kind of angry and it would kind of wipe out some of the things I've been setting up thus far (though some of those things are questionably portable to Ebberon as well.)

In short: Yeah, that'd be a lot easier, but I don't think just throwing out the current campaign would go over particularly well.
iPhone double-post! Yay! :/

What happened to my post count? It seems the more I post, the more it drops. Is that how it's supposed to work?

I hear ya. Are they okay with being dropped into Eberron to begin with? I should probably read the OP again, no? ;)

I'd make their arrival as dramatic as possible. Drop them into the middle of a major, climactic battle of the Last War. The Battle of Saerun Road could be a good choice, since they'd be present to see the Mourning take place--the defining moment of the age. They could be met there and guided by a power that was expecting them. That power could be a dragon of the Chamber (disguised, likely), an agent of The Lords of Dust, or whatever. Make their strangely timed arrival something foretold by the Draconic Prophecy.

From there, fast forward a few years. They've been in Eberron for four years (the canonical starting point for campaigns), so they've come to know the world. The could be working for The Chamber, The King's Citadel of Breland, The Twelve, The Lord's of Dust (surely unwittingly), or simply as free-lance adventurers. Yes, they are aberrations. Yes, they serve non-existent gods (some would say most of the devout of Eberron do), but their presence was foreseen in the Prophecy, so they undoubtedly have big things ahead of them. Eberron's most powerful forces will have taken an interest in them, and will be ever scheming in the background, trying to ensure that the players' actions have the results these powers desire.

This way you don't have to change the world to fit them. They are simply exceptional individuals with some sort of role to play, for good or ill.

What happened to my post count? It seems the more I post, the more it drops. Is that how it's supposed to work?

It's easier to simply add a post than to edit. The Planes are well known to the educated of Khorvaire, in the sense that their existence isn't questioned. The world has seen two major extraplanar invasions in the last 40,000 years. Your PCs would likely garner a lot of curiousity, once their unlikely story gained credibility with those in the know. They'd be the first to have come from a place beyond the known cosmology. Perhaps it took an event like the Mourning to even breech those types of barriers? Perhaps some believe their arrival played a part in causing the Mourning? O__o

There's a lot of potential here. Don't bend Eberron to fit your PCs. Embrace their uniqueness and let the world react to it! This could end up being one hell of a story!

What happened to my post count? It seems the more I post, the more it drops. Is that how it's supposed to work?

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