Four possible characters

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Hi,
I'm going to start a new campaign soon and I'm preparing my char. By now I have 4 possible chars:
1) Some kind of Roguish arcane spellcaster:
A char good with skills like hide, move silently, disable device, open lock, maybe tumbles and/or escape artist; good at melee fighting (that at least with 2 turns of buffs has a great damage output), and spells of the highest level possible. For this I've been thinking a Rogue 1/wu jen 4/Arcane trickster 10 and the other levels maybe 1 Swordsage, 1 or more levels of dragonslayer (+1 BAB and Truestrike as move action is really good), Exemplar 1 and/or daggerspell mage. Also it would be great to use self-made poisons, like summoning/poliforming/tamming monsters, creating plants, etc. Probably would need a level in Assassin or ninja for Poison Use. And it hasn't to be an actual "rogue". If he can find traps, sneak and use SA, it's ok.

2) Rogue Assassin:
Probably Rogue 10/Assassin 10, Rogue 9/Assassin 10/Exemplar 1 or Rogue 5/Assassin 10/Invisible blade: Like the previous char, but not based on spellcasting, just the sneak/skills/SA/poison part. It would be great that he can create it's own poisons, but I see it quiet dificult without some external help or by roleplaying.

[Added] Ideas for efective (in relation to it's cost) poisons (like drows, dragon's bilis, black lotus extract, etc.), how to create them free (or at a low cost) and fast will help in this two

3) Wu jen gish:
Wu shen 10/Dragonslayer 10 or something like that:
High (better if it's the highest) level spells, and melee fighting with the help of buffs (Giant size/shapechange/Tenser's transformation) and Body outside body. Any ideas for classes/feats/tactics that work well with BoB would be useful (my DM is used to take powers and even maneuvers as spells, so the less debatable the trick is, the better it is) .

[Edited] Dragonslayer has full progresion in the spanish version of draconomicon, that's why I used it. But I saw a thread where it said that it has 50% spellcasting progression, so I looked for the english version, and efectively, that's true ¬¬. So it probably will be an eldrich knight or something like that. 

4) Wu jen/incantatrix:
Body outside body+buffs+persistent spell to be shapechanged with other buffs all the day so I can be less vulnerable and can fight even without spells. (Help with persistable spells and defensive/ofensive forms for shapechange would be great help). I was thinking in a level of Exemplar and Item Familiar (if my DM allow it) for "take 10", +4 bonus and another bonus (IF) to get spellcraft checks as high as possible. A level of bard (or some other way to get bardic music) and sublime chord to get access to some great wizard spells like Celerity. Also 1 or 2 level dip in archmage to get 1 or spells as spell-like abilities so my clones can use them too.

[Added] 5) Wizard/Red Wizard/Incantatrix:
The idea is to get undispellable (40 CL spells have a 50 DC for dispelling, which can't be achieved with a maximum 25 CL with the best dispel, if i don't misremember, the chain dispel), persistent spells like shapechange, mind blank (not persistable but it still lasts 24 hours), trueseeing (very useful for preventing anyone to catch you flat-footed), etc. This way, I use a few spells so I can fight without using the others unless it's completly necesary. Here I need some ideas for persistable spells, maybe some incantatrix (like how to get a high spellcraft check, besides item familiars) and red wizard tips or other ways to get extremly high CL (withuot falling into dirty tricks, like the high multiclassing with... sublime chord if i don't missremember. that won't work with my DM :P)

Any ideas for feats/classes/spells/powers/maneuvers/items/tactics or even builds would help me.
We use the seven 4d6 (discarding the lowest), then six 4d6 method to generate ability scores, so they are quiet random. He normally doesn't allow traits and flaws. Other UA variants go to discussion.  The books allowed are listed bellow. We are probably starting at level 10 and going up to 20 or more.


Allowed books

-Arms and Equipment Guide


-Book of Exalted Deads


-Book of Vile Darkness (3.0)


-Complete arcane


-Complete Divine


-Comple Adventurer


-Complete Warrior


-Dungeon Master’s Guide


-Dungeon Master’s Guide 2


-Draconomicon (not sure if it’s 3.0 or 3.5)


-Eberron Campaign Setting


-Epic Level Handbook (3.0)


-Fiend Folio (3.0)


-Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting


-Libris mortis


-Magic Item Compendium


-Magic of Faerun


-Monster Manual 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5


-Spell Compendium


-Player’s Guide to Faerun


-Player’s Handbook


-Player’s Handbook 2


-Savage Species (3.0, sometimes we use it)


-Serpent Kingdoms (no sharruk xD)


-Tome of Battle: Book of the Nine Swords


-Unaproachable East


-Unearthed arcane


-Weapons of Legacy

 

If you play a warforged, you'll be immune to poison. That gets around the risk of accidentally poisoning yourself as surely as the poison use class feature.


Rogue 1 / wu jen 4 doesn't qualify for arcane trickster without trickery. You need 3rd-level spells and +2d6 sneak attack.


The tag you want is “sblock.”

I actually didn't think of using warforged... it's a good idea, except for the spell failure %. Still it's something that can be avoided... specially with wu jen, maybe some enchantment that reduce it by 10% (I'm pretty sure there is something like this somewhere).
You're about the prerrequisite. I need one level more of wu jen (or the prestige). The SA can be obtained by 2 feats with Assassin's stance. Still I'll probably need to consult it with my DM. If he says no, I can go for a level of Ninja/assassin, or a few levels in daggerspell mage

I've tried that command but i didn't worked =(
is it  
There I used the [ /sblock] (without the space) but it doesn't apear

It looks like they removed that feature. I've looked through some old threads that I know used to have functional spoilers, and they've all stopped working. I wonder when this happened.

The [sblock] tags broke about a week ago.  They finally instituted a fix somethime in the last 24 hours.

For your first idea: why not just use an artificer?  They don't get SA, but they get "casting" and Trapfinding.  For poison use you could use the Alchemist Savant PrC from Magic of Eberron.  If you're a warforged caster, the armor enhancement you want is Twilight.  Sadly, I can't remember what book it's in, though I believe it's at least in the MIC.  If you're a warforged artificer, then you'll want to look at the racial alternate class features in Races of Eberron.

For your gish character, what about a straight elf Wizard/Abjurant Champion?  You can use the "Generalist Wizard" racial class feature in RotW.  And, since elves are automatically proficieant with various martial weapons, you'll still meet the prereqs for ABChamp without wasting a feat or level in non-casting class.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls

The [sblock] tags broke about a week ago.  They finally instituted a fix somethime in the last 24 hours.


 So... when will it be active again?

 For your first idea: why not just use an artificer?  They don't get SA, but they get "casting" and Trapfinding.  For poison use you could use the Alchemist Savant PrC from Magic of Eberron.  If you're a warforged caster, the armor enhancement you want is Twilight.  Sadly, I can't remember what book it's in, though I believe it's at least in the MIC.  If you're a warforged artificer, then you'll want to look at the racial alternate class features in Races of Eberron.


I'm considering the artificer... but, beyond the fact that it has no SA, it hasn't the spellcasting ability of a high level wizard (I'm talking about 9th level spells useful for melee combat like shapechange, timestop, etc.). Actually, they do have it, but I should be wasting a lot of time, gold and/or XP to use them. Still, I'm getting it into consideration, but prefer to have wizards (wujen, better) spells and SA if possible.
And yup... was the Twilight at MIC. You can feel proud of your memory :P

 For your gish character, what about a straight elf Wizard/Abjurant Champion?  You can use the "Generalist Wizard" racial class feature in RotW.  And, since elves are automatically proficieant with various martial weapons, you'll still meet the prereqs for ABChamp without wasting a feat or level in non-casting class.


 Unfortunately, the abjurant champion isn't at the books available (note that I only have half the Completes available), neither the RotW

Thanks for your help anyways

Also, I'm been thinking something about a fifth option that i've just added to the previous ideas
 Actually, they do have it, but I should be wasting a lot of time, gold and/or XP to use them.



If built and done properly, an artificer doesn't waste any time at all crafting, they simply let a minion do it for them.  The xp expenditure can be circumvend because of the cache of extra points to use specifically for crafting (also there was a post back that details why crafting and using XP won't really put you behind at all.  Basically, you'll lose experience and a party member or two may advance to the next level before you, but the CRs of the encounters will go up and you will be apportioned a larger amount of experience than those members, thus allowing you to catch up quickly).

The gold expenditure is almost a joke;  Craft something and sell it.  Repeat.  You have plenty of gold to use for crafting.

Here's an unofficial artificer handbook
The link is broken...
Yea... I forget to mention that my DM don't like much the Dedicated wright ¬¬
But maybe you are right about the XP
The [sblock] tags broke about a week ago.  They finally instituted a fix somethime in the last 24 hours.

So... when will it be active again?

Show
They already are.  They were fixed in the last couple of days.
 For your gish character, what about a straight elf Wizard/Abjurant Champion?  You can use the "Generalist Wizard" racial class feature in RotW.  And, since elves are automatically proficieant with various martial weapons, you'll still meet the prereqs for ABChamp without wasting a feat or level in non-casting class.

Unfortunately, the abjurant champion isn't at the books available (note that I only have half the Completes available), neither the RotW

I didn't notice that.  I figured that if any of the Complete Series was available, they all were.  Is that due to DM limitations, or are those just the books your group has?  Either way, if you decide on a a gish, take 1 level (AND 1 LEVEL ONLY) of Spellsword from Complete Warrior.
The link is broken...
Yea... I forget to mention that my DM don't like much the Dedicated wright ¬¬
But maybe you are right about the XP

You can use Crafting Points (Unearthed Arcana) to lessen the time requirements, also.  The basic idea behid them is that you're crafting in your down time...
As for the XP...Experience is a river.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Spoiler


Great, at last :P

I didn't notice that.  I figured that if any of the Complete Series was available, they all were.  Is that due to DM limitations, or are those just the books your group has?  Either way, if you decide on a a gish, take 1 level (AND 1 LEVEL ONLY) of Spellsword from Complete Warrior.



They are  the books allowed by the time. I liked the idea of 1 level dip at spellsword, but I need a lot of competences that practically say "GET A WARRIOR LEVEL" ¬¬

You can use Crafting Points (Unearthed Arcana) to lessen the time requirements, also.  The basic idea behid them is that you're crafting in your down time...
As for the XP...Experience is a river.



I don't like much the idea behind crafting points, they seem pretty limited at the quantity to me. And yea... I've read the thread and agree with the idea... still... I didn't understand much of the numerical logic (this is not my native language as you've probably noticed)... just the "philosophy" :P
No need for a "Warrior" level.  Dragonslayer, while 5/10 casting class in English, gives all the martial weapon and armor prof.s you need to enter Spellsword.  There's a reason a great deal of old school (and quite a few new school) Gish builds have Drag. 1 before SS 1.


Abj. Champion requires +5 BAB, Combat Casting feat and a martial weapon prof, plus 1st level acrane Abj. spells.  Among some of the toys it gets: d10 HD, full BAB, free quickened Abj. spells, and a boost to all Abj. AC boosting spells equal to the class level (note that this AC boost covers ALL Abj. spells the character casts.  If the character knows some Divine spells like Dispel Evil...well, just let your imagination run wild).  Throw in the 2nd level ability of Argent Savant from Complete Arcane of boosting Force element +AC spells like Shield and Mage Armor by 2, and you suddenly have a +11 shield bonus for a 1st level spell.
No need for a "Warrior" level.  Dragonslayer, while 5/10 casting class in English, gives all the martial weapon and armor prof.s you need to enter Spellsword.  There's a reason a great deal of old school (and quite a few new school) Gish builds have Drag. 1 before SS 1.


You're right. I thought you get the +1 casting class level at second level. I like the idea. There is +2 BAB and +2 casting class,  immunity to fear and -10% arcane spell failure.

 Abj. Champion requires +5 BAB, Combat Casting feat and a martial weapon prof, plus 1st level acrane Abj. spells.  Among some of the toys it gets: d10 HD, full BAB, free quickened Abj. spells, and a boost to all Abj. AC boosting spells equal to the class level (note that this AC boost covers ALL Abj. spells the character casts.  If the character knows some Divine spells like Dispel Evil...well, just let your imagination run wild).  Throw in the 2nd level ability of Argent Savant from Complete Arcane of boosting Force element +AC spells like Shield and Mage Armor by 2, and you suddenly have a +11 shield bonus for a 1st level spell.


The thing is that Complete Mage isn't between the books allowed. Anyway I didn't realize that the combination of ACh and AS would have such results.
Two things to remark. You can get even better results with Greater mage armor (for a total of +13), but it's third level; still, a lot of AC bonus (equals a +4 fullplate, and you retain your full Dex bonus to AC)
Second, Tha AC boost to abjuration spells applies only to armor and shield bonus. Protection from evil gives you deflection bonus.
The thing is that Complete Mage isn't between the books allowed. Anyway I didn't realize that the combination of ACh and AS would have such results.
Two things to remark. You can get even better results with Greater mage armor (for a total of +13), but it's third level; still, a lot of AC bonus (equals a +4 fullplate, and you retain your full Dex bonus to AC)

And if Complete Champion was amongst the allowed books, you could wring out a further +2 on the armour bonus with a level of Paragnostic Apostle.  But it's just window-shopping if you can't take them anyway.

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I've calculated and I can use Metamagic effect with a spellcraft check of 100 (with Item Familiar and buffed, a lot). Thats (100-18)/3= 27 Spell level with metamagic (much more of the 63 I need to Persist a 9th level spell :P). The odd part is that I need to ban 4 schools (3 if I pick Adivination as my Specialization) to be Red wizard and Incantatrix. If that's the case I'm thinking about banning Necromancy, Evocation and Enchantment

[Added]: And I'm looking for creatures (if there's any) that have noth True seeing as special quality and Immunity to magic and are below 25 HD. Also some creatures with Ex or Su qualities that are useful for defensive purpose (Evasion, Immunity to magic, Regeneration, etc.)
Also I've been thinking of using Shadow Conjurations and Evocations to replace the spells I wouldn't use to school banning. Any help for augmenting the % of reality of the shadows? (between the books availables)