And Let There Be Fish-Men: KUO-TOA

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Alright, here's my attempt at making kuo-toa a playable race option for pcs. I tried to keep it balanced and open to as many class options as possible to encourage variety. My choices in the class features and feats were based on the monster manuals for both 4e and 3.5 that contained kuo-toa. I also introduced a "new" god from the older editions that went along with the kuo-toa. This is definitely PEACH, since even though I tried to balance it, that doesn't mean I really know what I'm doing.
Enjoy.

A primer: Kuo-Toa are a fish-like species of Usually-Chaotic-Evil dudes that dwell in the aquatic regions of the underdark. They have a very Lovecraftian feel to them, and worship such "dark gods" and aberrant creatures as you would expect from that. Their cities are tainted by madness, and sometimes can become ruins in a matter of days if the madness overwhelms them entirely. Kuo-Toa leaders are made up of a priest-caste, called Whips (clerics). There are also Moniters, kuo-toa who have learned to fight with their bodies and harden their mind to the ever present madness within their aquatic societies (monks). Kuo-toa are known to form short lived alliences with drow and other underdark races.

KUO-TOA


IMAGE(http://images.wikia.com/forgottenrealms/images/f/f1/Kuo-toa_-_Daren_Bader.jpg)


RACIAL TRAITS
Average Height: 4'7"-5'6"
Average Weight: 140-200 lb.


Ability Scores: +2 DEX; +2 CON or +2 WIS
Size: Medium
Speed: 6, swim 6
Vision: Low-Light Vision


Languages: Common, Deep Speech
Skill Bonuses: +2 Dungeoneering, +2 Perception
Aquatic: You count as an aquatic creature for all rules and effects that apply to them, and do not take the penalty to attack rolls from being under water.
Slimy Skin: You can make a check to escape a grab as an immediate reaction.
Slick Maneuver: You do not provoke opportunity attacks from a creature by moving into another square adjacent to it.
Racial Power: You have the racial power encounter power.


Racial Power


HEROIC FEATS


Kuo-Toa Mancatcher Training
Prerequisits: Kuo-Toa, 13 strength or dexterity
You gain proficiency and a +2/+3/+4 per tier feat bonus to damage rolls with nets. Whenever you hit a creature with an attack using a net, that creature is slowed until the end of your next turn.


Aberrant Familiarity
Prerequisits: Kuo-Toa
You gain a +5 bonus to damage rolls against aberrant creatures, but suffer a -2 penalty to saving throws against effects caused by an aberrant creature's attack.


Kuo-Toa Whip Training
Prerequisits: Kuo-Toa, 15 dexterity, any divine class
Gain proficiency with the zadatl and treat it as a +3 proficiency, 1d12 weapon. You can use it as an implement for your divine powers. You gain a +2/+3/+4 bonus to damage rolls with attacks made with a zadatl, and creatures take a -2 penalty to checks to escape grabs caused by your zadatl.


Kuo-Toa Moniter Training
Prerequisits: Kuo-Toa, monk class
Gain a +1 bonus to will defense and a bonus to saving throws against effects that dominate, stun, daze, or deal ongoing psychic damage equal to your wisdom modifier.


Lurker In The Deep
Prerequisits: Kuo-Toa
While under water, you gain combat advantage against creatures that are not under water and against non-aquatic creatures that are under water. In addition, you can make a stealth check while under water to become hidden.


Deft Swimmer
Prerequisits: Aquatic
Your swim speed increases by 2.


Aberrant Madness
Prerequisits: Kuo-Toa, warlock, star pact
You can choose one target of your warlock daily attack powers to make a melee basic attack against any creature of your choice within range as a free action. Also, you take a -2 penalty to saving throws against effects that dominate.


Oak-Jaw Coven Training
Prerequisits: Kuo-Toa, any primal class
You gain a benefit with any of the following powers you posses. 


Grasping Claws (druid): You can grab the target of this attack until the end of your next turn if you hit with it.


Haunting Spirits (shaman): You can grab the target of this attack until the end of your next turn if you hit with it.


Thorn Strike (warden): You can grab the target of this attack until the end of your next turn if you hit with it.


Howling Strike (barbarian): If you are grabbed, you can charge with this attack to escape the grab. You do not provoke opportunity attacks from the creature grabbing you from movement made as part of this charge.


Blibdoolpoolp's Eye [Divinity]
Prerequisits: channel divinity class feature, you must worship Blibdoolpoolp
You gain the Channel Divinity power Blibdoolpoolp's eye.


Blibdoolpoolp's Eye
Standard Action, Close Blast 3 
Divine, Implement, Psychic, Channel Divinity
Target: One creature in the blast
Attack: Wis vs. Will
Hit: You slide the target 2 squares and it makes a melee basic attack against a creature of your choice. If its attack misses, it takes psychic damage equal to your wisdom modifier.
Channel Divinity: You can only use one channel divinity power per encounter


PARAGON FEATS


Sticky Shield
Prerequisits: Kuo-Toa, 11th level, proficiency in light or heavy shields
When using a light or heavy shield, creatures must make a saving throw or be grabbed by you until the end of your next turn if they miss you with a melee attack.


Keen Eye
Prerequisits: Kuo-Toa, 11th level
You gain darkvision, and can see invisible creatures until the end of your next turn if they move while within 2 squares of you. In addition, you have a +2 feat bonus to perception.


Kuo-Toa Harpooner
Prerequisits: Kuo-Toa, 11th level, 15 strength
Your ranged basic attacks with weapons in the spear or crossbow group pull the target 2 squares.


Kuo-Toa Lurker
Prerequisits: Kuo-Toa, 11th level, rogue
You can treat weapons in the spear group as light blades for the purpose of meeting prequisits for your rogue powers, rogue paragon path powers, and rogue class features.


Curse of the Deep One
Prerequisits: Kuo-Toa, 11th level, warlock class, star pact
Creatures under your warlock's curse take a -2 penalty to saving throws.


Racial Power Enhancer
Prerequisits: Kuo-Toa, 11th level
Your racial power is now enhanced.

EPIC FEATS


Lightning Affinity
Prerequisits: Kuo-Toa, 21st level, 17 dexterity 
You gain a +4 feat bonus to damage rolls with lightning powers. In addition, whenever you hit with a lightning power, each creature adjacent to the target of the power takes lightning damage equal to your dexterity modifier.


Racial Power Enhancer II
Prerequisits: Kuo-Toa, 21st level
Your racial power is now enhanced.


Unleashed Madness
Prerequisits: Kuo-Toa, 21st level
When you make a weapon attack against an enemy, you can take a -1 penalty to will defense until the end of your next turn to deal your dexterity modifier damage to each creature within melee range of you.


PARAGON PATH
KUO-TOA LEVIATHAN
I can feel the monster inside me, the tempest of power waiting to be unleashed... Do you dare to be the one to feel its wrath?


IMAGE(http://thursdayknights.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Kuo-Toa-Leviathan.jpg)


Kuo-Toa Leviathan Path Features
Wave Maker (Level 11): When you spend an action point to take an extra action, you can push all creatures in a close burst 3 centered around you 2 squares and knock them prone.
Titanic Form (Level 11): Your melee reach increases by 1.
Titanic Impact (Level 16): Choose strength, dexterity, or constitution. All your attacks deal extra damage equal to the chosen ability modifier.


Kuo-Toa Leviathan Powers
Leviathan's Tide Level 11 Encounter
Standard Action, Close burst 3
Zone
Target: Each enemy in the burst
Attack: STR, DEX, or CON + 6 vs. Fort
Hit: 2d12 plus strength, dexterity, or constitution modifier damage, and the target is slid two squares and slowed.
Effect: The burst creates a zone of water 3 squares deep. The zone lasts until the end of the encounter or until you end it as a free action on your turn.
Special: The attack roll increases to STR, DEX, or CON + 9 at level 21. Chose which ability score to use for this attack when you select Kuo-Toa Leviathan as your paragon path.


Thrashing Rampage Level 12 Utility
Minor Action, Personal
Stance
Effect: You enter the thrashing rampage stance. The stance lasts until the end of the encounter, and you can end it as a free action. While in the stance you have threatening reach, and your melee attacks slide targets 1 square.


Blibdoolpoolp's Blessing Level 20 Daily
Standard Action, Close Burst 1 
Polymorph 
Target: Each creature in the burst
Attack: STR, DEX, or CON + 6 vs. Fort
Hit: 3d12 plus strength, dexterity, or constitution modifier damage, and the target is stunned until the beginning of your next turn.
Effect: Each creature adjacent to you is pushed one square. You then assume the form of Blibdoolpoolp's chosen. In this form your size is large, you gain a +2 power bonus to all defenses, and your attacks can pull or push the target 1 square. You also gain temporary hit points equal to twice your healing surge value. 
Special: The attack roll increases to STR, DEX, or CON +9 at level 21. Chose which ability score to use for this attack at level 20 when you gain it. 


DEITY
BLIBDOOLPOOLP


IMAGE(http://icons.iconarchive.com/icons/iconshock/stroke-animals/256/lobster-icon.png)


Blibdoolpoolp is the patron goddess of the kuo-toa, who refer to her as the Sea Mother. Mad cultists among the other races are known to pledge alliegence to her goals of spreading madness and seeking vengeance upon the other gods as well. However, the worship of Blibdoolpoolp is in decline, as the kuo-toa who once singularily worshipped her are now prone to worship aberrant terrors of the deep instead, or in some secluded tribes, primal spirirts. Blibdoolpoolp's sacred animal is the lobster, and her idols are often lobsters made from jewelry, most often aquamarines and gold. The kuo-toa represent Blibdoolpoolp as a bloated caricature of the female human form, with the claws and head of a lobster. During the Dawn War, Blibdoolpoolp's vanity caused her to try and defect to the primordials. She assumed that she would quickly become the leader of their entire army. Instead, the primordials rejected her and destroyed her domain within the Astral Sea. Knowing of her treachery, the other gods banished Blibdoolpoolp to an aquatic prison within the elemental chaos. Eventually Blibdoolpoolp managed to spread her influence into the natural world, in the deepest waters of the underdark. There, the ancient kuo-toa became her first followers.


Blibdoolpoolp's teachings are as follows:
* The Sea Mother is a demanding patron. Worship no other gods but her, and make sacrifices in her name. Held highest of all is the sacrifice of lobsters, her sacred animal.
* Hold all surface dwellers in comtempt, and seek vengeance against those who cast the Sea Mother into the watery depths of the underdark.
* Be opportunistic. Forge alliences that will benefit you and only break them once they become disadvantageous.
* Plant the seed of insanity wherever you can, and sow confusion among the lawful.


Alignment: Chaotic Evil
Domains: Sea, Destruction, Torment, Madness

Heya everyone, here are my homebrew threads: (yes there is only one right now, but there are more to come!) And Let There Be Fish-Men: KUO-TOA
Alright, so first I'll preface with nice for doing aquatic races.  Totally ignored in the normal D&D.  Also, I wont be reviewing any of the feats or anything else.  No offense, I just don't generally bother with any homebrew race.

Okay, that being said the racial traits aren't bad.  I mean kinda typical, aquatic is a given.  Though I don't know the aquatic keyword off the top of my head but I think it includes being able to breathe underwater.  So you can probably just change it to saying you gain the aquatic keyword.  But the way you have it really isn't bad or anything.

Well I would say that CC would probably jump on you for weapon proficiency but I haven't seem him around...so I'll kinda do it because it something we rarely agree on.  Weapon proficiencies as racial traits are...kinda ugly.  I mean I get where you're coming from with it because of the pictures in the books always show them with tridents, spears, and nets.  But in reality not every kuo-toa is probably proficient in all those.  Some probably don't even learn how to use weapons.  You gotta think about them in a more general sense here when making a race.  Especially when doing it from something that's already a monster.

I'm not saying it's the worse thing in the world.  Just saying that it's not the greatest option.  The Kuo-toa that would use those kinda weapons probably already have proficiency.  Except maybe nets.  But spears and trident proficiency isn't that hard to get for those that will actually use them.  And if they don't have proficiency with such weapons more often than not they wont be using them because they wont BE useful.  Like a sorcerer, he really wouldn't have any use for a trident aside from just the flavor of carrying one around.  And also the classes that already get the proficiency with these weapons would then find the racial feature useless, not all that fun though of course not all race/class combos result in taking advantage of all racial features.

Okay, Slimy skin.  Okay, like the +2 to escape from grabs, and the Imm Int isn't a bad thing I don't think.  As for the resistances, first off there is no electric keyword.  There's lightning though, just wanted to point that out.  Also...honestly the resistance part really is kind of its own racial feature, doesn't exactly fit with the slimy skin feature of getting out of grabs easier.  I mean the resistance is fine, but what I would do is remove the weapon proficiency feature and replace it with something like "Aquatic Resistance: You gain resistance to poison and lightning damage equal to half your level + 5."

I think that would work better.  So, the racial feature.  Alright, so first an at will.  I mean yeah some races have them but usually they're things like the Changeling's shape shifting.  I don't know, even with it being an at will, I don't think it's exactly overpowered.  I mean yeah it does allow you to shift to ANY square adjacent to the creature you're adjacent to, but I'm sure it could be exploited.  I mean it would make it easier to get CA by flanking, or move to a spot that would allow for an easier getaway from the monster.  I guess it's not bad, it works.
Oh wow a well thought out awesome reply! Yessss! 

To start off, yes I could probably clean up the aquatic part a bit. S'pose I'll get to that.
Weapon proficiency... I do see your point. I guess I just liked the idea of it, but now that I think about it all your points make perfect sense. Especially since a kuo-toa monk is totally a thing, and they don't use tridents or something as implements. 
Ahaha my bad with electric insteada lightning. I'm too used to the pokeymans I guess, will change it to lightning. Will also split it from Slimy Skin.
It seems your not too hot about the racial power, but for now I'll keep it because it was their "racial thing" in the monster manual, and because I think it's pretty cool that it can be used offensively OR defensively.

Thank's a bunch Alitain, especially since you dont bother with homebrew races ahahaha     
Heya everyone, here are my homebrew threads: (yes there is only one right now, but there are more to come!) And Let There Be Fish-Men: KUO-TOA
Posting this right away, change the at-will power to the following:

Effect: You pick an adjacent enemy and move up to your speed. As long as you end this movement in a square adjacent to that enemy, your movement does not provoke opportunity attacks from that enemy.

This is a level 2 fighter power, so this is official phrasing. Always try to make things sound as official as possable ;) 

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Look at my Playable Illithid, my Monster Generating excel file , my Lifestealer in progresss (Heroic tier almost complete!) , our Improved Orc, our Improving Kenku and our Improving Duergar
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Aberrant Familiarity: make it a +2 bonus to damage rolls.
Whip Training: "grabs caused by your zadtl", what does that mean?

I was hoping to see the sticky shield in there somehwere :D

I only do heroic tier, so I'm not gonna comment on stuff past that.

This is very well done, very flavourful :D and I love how original some of these things are :D
I've noticed in my own homebrewing is that I've started to fall into a template, but you, good sir, have no such template and it is beautiful to look at :D

Hope you get a lot of constructive comments on this thing, you really did well.

If these are all evil creatures, how can I fit a kua-toa character into my dnd group, if I were to play one?  

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg)

Look at my Playable Illithid, my Monster Generating excel file , my Lifestealer in progresss (Heroic tier almost complete!) , our Improved Orc, our Improving Kenku and our Improving Duergar
Also, take a look at my friend's Improved Minotaur, Gadren's amazing Arcane Archer and of course the Avatar Project
More links! Qube's Block Builder, Classless D&D and the characters I've created using the classless system.
mhbjarkister: Wow, thank you very much for your constructive (and complementive :3) comments!

Slick Manuever: Eh... I suppose I could make the wording more "official", but I'd still want to keep the movement a shift. This does end up making it not as powerful in the end, since some monster can OA on shifts, but I'd like to keep the ability somewhat true to the 4e monster manual's "kuo-toa generic power". But I will think about changing the wording to something more like yours.

Aberrant Familiarity: I figured +4 was alright, since a feat (Headman's chop) adds +5 untyped damage bonus to prone enemies, which can very easily and reliably set up. This feat gives you the bonus only against certain monster types, which cannot be set up or changed, AND also gives a slight penalty so it's more of a trade off. HOWEVER, if this feat continues to be a problem I will definitely consider changing it more.

Whip Training: The zadatl (AKA pincerstaff, an iconic kuo-toa cleric's weapon), was released in dragon 391, along with a set of novice/expert/specialist feats that let you grab with it. This makes that path a bit more viable, since a SUPERIOR weapon ought to be more than +2 prof 1d8 when it uses both of your hands.

Alright, that's a good question about the kuo-toa being evil thing! One of my planned characters is a kuo-toa, and he was a "simple fisherman". When his villiage was overcome with madness, everyone was effected by it, even him. All he remembers is waking up surrounded by several dead kuo-toa. He may not have been the only survivor, but he was the only one he could find. This event caused him to take the holy symbol used as a religious idle in his town (being a layperson, he didn't actually know anything about WHAT it was he was worshipping), and set off looking for answers. Despite having evil tendencies, this character is more interested in adventuring looking for divine secrets to find out why that happened to his home-town.

But, that of course isn't the only option! It is very possible (I even put it as a fact in the spiel about Blibdoolpoolp) that there are a few secluded kuo-toa tribes who have instead begun to worship primal spirits, and who would probably be unaligned or neutral due to the influence.

Even then, one of Blibdoolpoolp's teachings I added was "Be opportunistic. Forge alliences that will benefit you and only break them once they become disadvantageous." This encourages players to avoid the Stupid Evil alignment, and instead realize that even if they are evil, they can effectively work as a team. Killing off your adventuring party is a GREAT way to get yourself killed in the next encounter, so a kuo-toa would realize that. Thus, you could still be a evil kuo-toa star pact warlock or something, but go along with your traveling companions for protection (and maybe even a sort of fish-y friendship later).    

Thank you, again, for the comments!
Hope I didn't ramble too much with that last question...
Heya everyone, here are my homebrew threads: (yes there is only one right now, but there are more to come!) And Let There Be Fish-Men: KUO-TOA
I'm not sold on your selection of ability scores. But, what my imagination perceives Kuo-Toa to be like is likely different from yours. You might very well be using monsters stats of 4th ed or another edition as your basis. Dunno. In my mind, giving them a +2 Dex implies that they are more agile than land creatures on land. Just a thought.

Slimy Skin: Sure, thematically a bonus to escape grabs is nice, and is a small enough bonus that doesn't throw much off. I appreciate the combination of fluff and crunch. Take into account that with the immediate interupt you're essentially giving this race TWO At-Will powers. I think that, combined with TWO restistances is going too far.

I completely agree with mhbjarkistef's wording for slick maneuver. Your wording gives them the ability to shift past ALL enemies they are near. mhbjarkistef's wording - the Pass Forward wording - gives them the ability to bypass oportunity attacks of only the enemy they are facing. A free Pass Forward is already a hefty boon. And this also ties into my previous point that you want Kuo-Toa to be more maneuverable than land creatures. Sorry to go on about that, it just doesn't fit my perception of them.

You could change the prereq of the Lurker in the Deep feat to make it available to all Aquatic creatures, even though this might be the only one.

As for Aberrant Familiarity, it seems weird to me to buy a penalty.

Abberant Madness seems way overpowered to me.
Excellent, feedback! Thanks ciaran!

Aberrant Madness: There is a penalty in there as well, did you notice? However, even then I do think I should change it to only one target of the daily attack. Also, since there is no movement to go with the basic attack, it somewhat limits the chances it will go off.

Aberrant Familiarity: The penalty is to offset the sizable bonus of a free +5 against a certain type of enemy that isn't exactly rare. Especially since the penalty isn't all the time, and only occurs against the same enemies you get a bonus to. Do you mind explaning in more detail why it isn't worth it? I am open to changing it.

Lurker in the Deep: Unlike deft swimmer, I do intend this to be kuo-toa only.
(There is a half elf feat that makes you aquatic, and I intend to post a homebrew sahuagin race soon, so... at least that's a couple more? xD )

Slick Manuever: Well, with TWO people bringing it up, then I will change slick manuever. However, I would like to note that it does take up your move action, so it's not like it's infinite movement, and it would be great for getting outta flanks... Hm... Awh man this is killing me. I'll see what I can do about this ability.  

Slimy and Rubbery Skins: I will remove the poison resistance. That was mostly there because I think they were immune to poisons or something in 3.5. I like the lightning resistance thematically more though.

I do imagine Kuo-Toa as being dex primary, so I suppose I'll agree with you that this is just different perceptions of the race. I probably wont change the ability scores, but outta curiosity, what ability scores do you think they should have? 

Once again, thank you very much for the comments!
(also about that comment in the warmage thread, sorry that I took your comment as an accusation. That's just what it seemed like to me. I've been wrong before though ahahaha)        
Heya everyone, here are my homebrew threads: (yes there is only one right now, but there are more to come!) And Let There Be Fish-Men: KUO-TOA
Put these threads as anchors in your signature :D

 

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg)

Look at my Playable Illithid, my Monster Generating excel file , my Lifestealer in progresss (Heroic tier almost complete!) , our Improved Orc, our Improving Kenku and our Improving Duergar
Also, take a look at my friend's Improved Minotaur, Gadren's amazing Arcane Archer and of course the Avatar Project
More links! Qube's Block Builder, Classless D&D and the characters I've created using the classless system.
BAM
finally figured out how to do that ahahaha

Anyways, does anyone have any comments on the Black Pirahna Tribe feat or the stuff past heroic tier?   
Heya everyone, here are my homebrew threads: (yes there is only one right now, but there are more to come!) And Let There Be Fish-Men: KUO-TOA
Ability scores bonuses... Tough one. I've perused some different artwork I could find. Some make them look like fish, some more reptilian. Contemplating them, I believe that of the mental stats, you could go with Cha (if you want them more primative and fierce) or Int (if you want them to have colder, calculating personalities. E.G.G. did), but the compassion or worldliness that may accompany Wis is something I don't see in their eyes. Their underdark neighbors/rivals, Illithid and Drow, are both intelligent. I prefer Int.

I could see Dex as a secondary. Many fish and reptiles have very fast reflexes, but the artwork - to me - makes them appear sedentary. Con could represent that.

Final decision is Con primary, with Dex or Int secondary (since they both fuel Reflex.)

Abberant Familiarity: I suppose what you have isn't wrong, I just can't see someone purchasing a save penalty, and can't think of a feat it has been used in before.

Kudos on the write-up of Blibdoolpoolp.
Actually drow get dexterity and then wisdom or charisma
Yeah but drow should have intelligence so good point :T 

The reason I didn't go with intelligence is because even though I see kuo-toa as being able to be cunning, their overall simplistic-ness and general state of chaotic-y-ness makes it seem to me like they wouldn't be the brightest bunch.
 
But yeah, the reason I chose dexterity primary was because I see kuo-toa as being very sneaky and quick. Even on land, their slimy skin (and slick manuever) keeps them as having high mobility and reflexes. And the look in their eyes always gave them sort of a shifty look to me.

With wisdom, that is definitely, a good point. However, the wisdom OR constitution is why I was okay with doing it. The kuo-toa that would have defected to primal spirits, and the whips and moniters, both have good wisdom scores representing their high will defense. I see wisdom as being mental "constitution", so they trade the hardiness that the "common" kuo-toa have for their better mental stability. 

I do like that your way of doing it would make them better conlocks, but besides that it's also worth noting that I don't see kuo-toa as excelling at any arcane classes besides the conlock. Rogues, Fighters, Monks, Avengers, Clerics, and Warlocks are all classes they would be at least decent at with this set-up, which fits very well in my mind. When making a race, I find it very important to also envision what sort of classes they will be good at.

So, that was my justification for the stats I gave it, but I can't really argue with yours either as the points you make are definitely valid.

And thanks, I was pretty proud of what I whipped up for Blibdoolpoolp.

...So!
What is the general consensus of what non-implement or weapon attacks should get as attack modifiers? The kuo-toa paragon path has two of these sort of attacks, and I want to make sure they scale alright.   
Heya everyone, here are my homebrew threads: (yes there is only one right now, but there are more to come!) And Let There Be Fish-Men: KUO-TOA
3/6/9 for v. NAD attacks, +2 for v. AC.
Alright, made it scale right.
But, still... there isn't anything anyone has to say about the stuff past heroic tier? 
Heya everyone, here are my homebrew threads: (yes there is only one right now, but there are more to come!) And Let There Be Fish-Men: KUO-TOA
Changed their vision to low-light vision.
So... no more comments on the race? (also nothing on the stuff past heroic?)

Oh well. If this doesn't see any more attention I suppose I should move on and post the sahuagin.    
Heya everyone, here are my homebrew threads: (yes there is only one right now, but there are more to come!) And Let There Be Fish-Men: KUO-TOA
Sorry. I wrote abut 20 lines earlier this week and lost it.
oh wow, I absolutely hate it when that happens

I'd be happy with the abridged version and just pretending it was more wordy and awesome, but I'd understand losing it killing any motivation to try and redo an entire post 
Heya everyone, here are my homebrew threads: (yes there is only one right now, but there are more to come!) And Let There Be Fish-Men: KUO-TOA
Just a few thoughts.

Blibdoolpoolp's Eye seems overpowered to me. Take a look at the existing ones. Plenty of monsters have rediculously strong "basic" melee attacks.

Keen Eyes needs to be rewritten. Its hard to understand. What is a +2 to darkvision? How about "You can see invisible creatures within 3 squares of you."


Kuo-Toa Harpooner: pull 3 seems like a lot. 1 is probably fine.

Effortless Maneuver: a minor action would suffice.
Looks a lot better than when I originally saw it, but there are still problems...

Slimy Skin: You gain a +2 racial bonus to escaping grabs, and may attempt to do so as an immediate interrupt when you are grabbed.

I generally consider the relatively unoriginal* ability to make escape attempts as a minor action instead of as a move action to be a balanced one, and this ability that you have here is arguably better than that, so I'm not convinced that it's a great idea.

*Unoriginal only because so many homebrew races do it, not because it's already done by an existing official race.

Slick Maneuver: You have the slick maneuver power. Slick Maneuver
Move Action
Effect: Move your speed to any square adjacent to a creature you are adjacent to. This movement does not provoke opportunity attacks from that creature, and you gain a +2 bonus to defenses against opportunity attacks made by other creatures during this movement.

I assume that because you do not have a racial encounter power, you intend for this power to make up for it? Well, it doesn't do that. The only race that I have ever seen successfully make up for not having a racial encounter power is the Human, and it breaks every racial design rule ever anyway, so it doesn't count. This isn't necessarily a bad feature, but like the Shade's One With Shadow, it does not make up for not having a racial encounter power.

So, as I see it, the race as is has too many good racial features and no racial encounter power. I recommend removing one of the racial features and then adding a power. Slick Maneuver seems the most mechanically dubious and least flavorfully necessary of the features, so I recomend its removal and replacement.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
Looks a lot better than when I originally saw it, but there are still problems...

Slimy Skin: You gain a +2 racial bonus to escaping grabs, and may attempt to do so as an immediate interrupt when you are grabbed.

I generally consider the relatively unoriginal* ability to make escape attempts as a minor action instead of as a move action to be a balanced one, and this ability that you have here is arguably better than that, so I'm not convinced that it's a great idea.

*Unoriginal only because so many homebrew races do it, not because it's already done by an existing official race.



Escaping as an immediate interrupt is weaker than doing so as a grab. Being grabbed is not that bad, and the PCs that typically get grabbed are melee characters, which want to be next to the monster anyways. In addition, most PCs have, or want, better uses for their immediate interrupt (like Shield, because hey, not getting hit in the first place is better than getting hit and being allowed a chance to escape). 
I'll grant as an at-will feature it might be on par with escaping as a minor action, but it is certainly not stronger.

The OP can't be blamed for what other homebrew races do. As I recall, the Kuo-Toa is the OPs first race, and the OP doesn't have many posts, which leads me to believe OP might be unfamiliar with many homebrew races.
One-half of the tabletop gaming news podcast Going Last Co-author on AoA 2-3 and 4-1.
I love the escape feature! I have been mulched on, and I can tell you it's not nice! If only I were so slippery no one could get a hold of me!

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg)

Look at my Playable Illithid, my Monster Generating excel file , my Lifestealer in progresss (Heroic tier almost complete!) , our Improved Orc, our Improving Kenku and our Improving Duergar
Also, take a look at my friend's Improved Minotaur, Gadren's amazing Arcane Archer and of course the Avatar Project
More links! Qube's Block Builder, Classless D&D and the characters I've created using the classless system.
The OP can't be blamed for what other homebrew races do.

This statement has me confused. What do you think that I'm blaming the OP for?

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
The OP can't be blamed for what other homebrew races do.

This statement has me confused. What do you think that I'm blaming the OP for?



Being unoriginal.
One-half of the tabletop gaming news podcast Going Last Co-author on AoA 2-3 and 4-1.
Being unoriginal.

No, actually, I said quite the opposite. The unoriginal standard that I'm comparing to that I've seen a lot of others homebrew races do before is the ability to make escape attempts as minor actions instead of move actions. The OP's has the same sort of thing going on conceptually, but it's a more mechanically original version. What I'm doing is comparing the original version to an unoriginal version that we've already seen works.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
Mmm, I love the smell of critique in the afternoon.
Thanks all who posted !

Blibdoolpoolp's Eye: Right, monsters have some wonky basic stuff they can do... I think I'll change it to affecting only one target. 

Keen Eye: Will do.

Kuo-Toa Harpooner: Let's compromise. Pull 2 squares.

Effortless Maneuver: I think, unless this gets more attention, I'll keep it a free action. It is an Epic feat, and I find the idea of a kuo-toa chess-ing around the battlefield hilarious. Also, there is the whole "DMs can limit free actions" thing if in a specific campaign it gets too outta hand. However, since I made a paragon feat that makes Slick Manuever not get OAs at all, I do think I'll get rid of the bonus to defenses against OAs that aren't the specific guy you're sliding around. 

Slimy Skin: I'm still not entirely sure what you're trying to say here. Should I make it less powerful, such as only having the bonus or only having it as an interrupt?

Slick Maneuver: Unfortunately, I think I just flat out disagree with you on this one. Kobolds do not have an encounter power, and it is amazing. Shifty is a ridiculously powerful racial feature, and that's an at-will. Movement abilities, in my opinion, are great for races, as long as they can apply to melee and ranged. Slick maneuver does just that in that it can help squishy casters flee, and melee dudes position themselves better. It is also the 4e "unifying feature" of kuo-toa, similar to goblin tactics and shifty, and shifty was made into the kobold's power. I will still consider changing it to an encounter power, but as it stands right now I haven't been too convinced to change slick maneuver.


Once again, thank you all for replying and helping!
       

Heya everyone, here are my homebrew threads: (yes there is only one right now, but there are more to come!) And Let There Be Fish-Men: KUO-TOA
Slimy Skin: I'm still not entirely sure what you're trying to say here. Should I make it less powerful, such as only having the bonus or only having it as an interrupt?

That would probably help yes. I've warmed up to the idea of having it as an immediate action, but I think that it might actually be best as a reaction rather than an interrupt. That's how immediate actions to escape are handled elsewhere in the rules.

Kobolds do not have an encounter power, and it is amazing.

Kobolds are not a PC race. They are an NPC race, so they are not balanced the same way or for the same purposes are PC races are. Shifty is too powerful to be a "racial power" on a PC race. Any comparisons to Kobolds or Shifty will not be valid.

Realize, though, that I'm not trying to say that your Slick Maneuver feature is overpowered or otherwise inappropriate (though it is rather strong). I'm just saying that it does not successfully take the place of a racial encounter power. You can have both it and a racial encounter power. Doing so will just requiring removing some other features because you have too many other features right now in general such that adding a racial encounter power on top of all of that would be overpowered.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
Is thread necro fine with your own thread? (...welllet'sfindout)

I changed the racial features around quite a bit, giving in to the fact that an at-will power is basically something that could easily be fit into the stat block. However, that does mean I need to make a new encounter power.

Besides that, I updated several feats.

Crimson, if you are still around and see this, out of curiosity, what did you think of the goblin? Mostly I'm curious about it getting to keep it's "shifty" (it's not broken like shifty, but is an at-will thing)    
Heya everyone, here are my homebrew threads: (yes there is only one right now, but there are more to come!) And Let There Be Fish-Men: KUO-TOA

ok. perhaps this is just cuz I havent used 4e before, but I have been searching and searching for what Racial Power is, and can find no information about what it does or how it works. can someone please explain this to me? I am trying to create a kuo-toan based off of this forrum, and it would be very useful.