Black is the weakest color?

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Why always other color is have the famous cards?
So that is means the black is the weakest color in magic?
because I rarely seen black based deck in the deck lists.
A little bit of courage is the real magic.
Yawgmoth's Will.

Necropotence.

Dark Confidant.

Dark Ritual.

These are maybe THE famousest of famous cards, outside of things like Ancestral Recall.

Black is usually (as far as I know) considered the second best color in magic, when it comes to every card ever. 
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A mono-black deck went undefeated at Chinese Nationals a few months ago.

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Green is the weakest color
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79035425 wrote:
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Trolljuju wiped the sweat from his brow as he continued his slow trudge up the snowy mountain. The wind was strong and fiercely cold, but he pressed against it. Juju knew Beast Engine was somewhere at the peak, waiting for him. But this was not a matter of confronting the forces of nature themselves; that had been accomplished long before, and was now too easy to maintain the manly man's interest. Today, Beast Engine was here waiting for a friend. Trolljuju's mind drifted from his appointment to thoughts of Beast Engine's manliness. The only man in history to punch the fossilized remains of a dinosaur back to life just to punch it to death again. The man who deflected bullets with his pectoral muscles during his daily assassination attempts. The man who cured cancer with a serum made from pure crystalized virility. The man who burst with vigor. Not just a man but a Man- the manliest of all men. A god of masculinity in physical form. Trolljuju's heart fluttered at the memory of him and lightened his steps as he pressed on. Suddenly, he was shaken from his reverie by a deep, powerful rumble in the mountain that shook him to his core. Instinctively, he threw himself to the ground just before the slope ahead of him exploded in a fiery wall of light and heat. So great was the force that the entire upper section of the mountain was vaproized. It scorched Juju's coat, then rose on the air to drift far away, a plume of white-hot ash. When Trolljuju lifted his head to see what was left behind, he beheld a wide, perfectly flat stone plateau, and in the distance he could see a muscular figure, his foot still held up from the kick. There was no doubt it was Beast Engine. As soon as the ground beneath him cooled, Juju cast his heavy pack aside and ran. As the figure grew with closeness, he could see Beast Engine was nude, as was expected. The snow that fell near him turned to a thin wall of steam, looking to Trolljuju's eyes like a barrier. Engine was too strong, too manly to occupy the same space as the ordinary universe. He lived in a world all his own. But fortunately for Juju, it was only an illusion. He ran at full speed into Engine, who caught him with both arms and effortlessly twirled with him, resting with Juju dipped low to the ground in Engine's arms. "Beast Engine, my love," Trolljuju breathed, sturck with awe at Engine's masculine beauty despite the familiarity of his face. Engine just smiled, radiating from every inch of him with incredible strength, yet gentle warmth. "It's been so long, Juju. I've missed you." "Forgive me. I lost contact with you while you were boxing with Death to win back and consume the soul of Theodore Roosevelt. But now I'm here..." Juju lifted one tentative hand to Engine's face, but he pulled away. "You know I cannot give you what you seek. Were we to make love, your body would be destroyed by the force." "I know, of course I would," Juju responded, tears in his eyes. "May I have, at least, one kiss?" "Very well. For you, my friend." Slowly, gingerly, they came closer. But the moment their lips met, a flood of unbridled manliness rushed into Trolljuju, body and soul, and every cell in his body exploded. Beast Engine fell to his knees, and in his grief, he wept. The tears that fell from his face burned deep into the rock beneath him. But slowly, his sorrow turned to conviction. He beat the crap out of Death once. He could do it again.
Green.

Case closed. 
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Green.

Case closed. 


BUT GOYF IS LIKE EVERYWHERE.

Green probably is the worst color in Vintage though.
A little bit of courage is the real magic.
Modern set design and, by extension, rotating formats like Standard, extended, overextended, etc.: All five colors are roughly equal.
Every card, ever: Blue > black > white > red > green.
Alone, Green is the weakest color because it lacks the ability to deal with your opponent's creatures as easily as other colors (it doesn't have spells like Pacifism, Lightning Bolt, Boomerang / Mana Leak or Last Gasp). Having said that, if Fight  (Prey Upon) becomes a common mechanic, then the viability of Mono-Green will sky rocket.

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Green alone is the weakest color in all of magic.

That's not to say mono-green cannot be a viable deck, on the contrary mono-green is arguably the best color for EDH.

As for famous/popular cards of all time, Green is definitely last.
Green also sees the least amount of play in limited.

More often than not, Green is used as synergy for other colors to make decks more effective.
56735468 wrote:
Residual energetic and psychic emenations from the spark of planewalkers going in and out of the blind eternities like it was a windmill eventually coalesced into beings named eldrazi who by their very nature could not consume mundane sources of nourishment to sustain their existence.

Green also sees the least amount of play in limited.


I would argue that limited is pretty much completely set based.

For example, from what I saw, everybody and their mother was running green in m10 sealed (since most of the decent creatures were green), and Emerald Oryx won me more games in m10 than any other card in limited.
A little bit of courage is the real magic.
Green.

Case closed. 


BUT GOYF IS LIKE EVERYWHERE.

Green probably is the worst color in Vintage though.



You might think Tarmogoyf is a green card, but he's actually a blue card .
Green also sees the least amount of play in limited.



Depends a lot on the set. Scars block limited saw green as a force to be reckoned with thanks to Infect, having a fair amount of artifact hate in an artifact heavy block, and Untamed Might shenanigans.

In M12, it's not great unless you can get your grubby paws on doubles of certain key cards (and I've seen a man's eyes bug out when he milled out a Cudgel Troll only to have me play the one that was in the my hand on the next turn).

It isn't a great color in Innistrad limited, but if you can get a couple Ambush Vipers and some Ulvenwald Mystics you are well on your way to something dangerous.

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Black is the weakest color? I... will... DESTROY YOU!
Black is the weakest color? I... will... DESTROY YOU!



Unless you happen to be a Black Card.
I would have to say black is the weakest in standard at the moment. The only reason why I play black nowadays is to play Heartless Summoning.
I would have to say black is the weakest in standard at the moment. The only reason why I play black nowadays is to play Heartless Summoning.



You gotta be kidding, what kind of decks are people playing with at your stores?  Because I want to play my Shape Steel deck anywhere that isn't running my worst nightmares of black cards.
56735468 wrote:
Residual energetic and psychic emenations from the spark of planewalkers going in and out of the blind eternities like it was a windmill eventually coalesced into beings named eldrazi who by their very nature could not consume mundane sources of nourishment to sustain their existence.
Alone, Green is the weakest color because it lacks the ability to deal with your opponent's creatures as easily as other colors (it doesn't have spells like Pacifism, Lightning Bolt, Boomerang / Mana Leak or Last Gasp). Having said that, if Fight  (Prey Upon) becomes a common mechanic, then the viability of Mono-Green will sky rocket.


Not every format is about creatures. That doesn't mean monogreen is good in those, but it's not because it lacks removal.
I would have to say black is the weakest in standard at the moment. The only reason why I play black nowadays is to play Heartless Summoning.



Black definitely lost a lot more good cards from Zendikar block (plus Sign in Blood from M11) than it gained from Innistrad. Monoblack is still playable though, infect or not.
Green.

Case closed. 


BUT GOYF IS LIKE EVERYWHERE.

Green probably is the worst color in Vintage though.


i'd say red and white are worse in Vintage
192884403 wrote:
firstrike
56965458 wrote:
97820278 wrote:
56965458 wrote:
97820278 wrote:
Ceci n'est pas une pipe.
This definitely doesn't mean what you think it means.
I was referring to the painting The Treachery of Images.
I know.
Doesn't limited tend to be creature-based?

Also, it tends to depend on set. I would argue the best two colors in ROE limited were green/black. Green for getting enough mana to summon the eponymous creatures, and black for killing them. (Nixing two of the Titans.)

Also, it depends on the cards you get: Here are some sample limited color combos in three different sets. One for each

NPH: In sealed (3 SOM, 3 NPH), I got a pretty good draw for an artifact theme, with cards like Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer and Tempered Steel, along with plenty of myr and a Sword of War and Peace. In draft (2 SOM, 1 NPH), I got a couple Blighted Agents, three Mutagenic Growths, and a bunch of things like Plague Stinger, though I did poach a Venser, the Sojourner. My dregs were Dementia Bats (possibly the worst card of the set), though. I ended up blue/black.

M12: During the sealed, I got Honor of the Pure and Gideon's Avenger. Most of my creatures ended up being white or green, including a couple Gideon's Lawkeepers. I ended up making a green/white deck with those, using a Garruk's Horde. I had an emergency, so I didn't draft. Turned out it was okay; there were 8 people without me anyway.

ISD: Sealed had an Angelic Overseer, and my DFCs were all puppies. Not enough to do a werewolf theme; I only had six. But enough for a human deck, what with my Mask of Avacyn, my Butcher's Cleaver, my Avacyn's Pilgrim, my Selfish Cathar, and my Hamlet Captain. Draft was...different. I ended up using a mixture of spirits, vampires, and zombies, with Evil Twin leading the way. Someone passed a Grimoire of the Dead, which struck me as odd, but I snatched it up, figuring it could be a good card. But that did tell me the dude to my left didn't have any recursion planned. I found that odd, given the theme of the set, but decided "All the more for me!"

Moar to the point, the balance in the color pie changes.

In the early days, blue was the color. You had to play blue. Basically, blue was that kid who, when you're playing cops and robbers, and you "shoot" him with your finger, he says "Can't! Magic!" Blue was the color of wizards, so blue did whatever the hell it wanted because it was blue, dammit! I don't think we'll ever see a black, red, green, or white Ancestral Recall, though Land Tax (also banned in Legacy) comes pretty close.

In Fifth Edition and subsequently for a long time, red lost a lot. How the hell is Necropotence just right for a core set when Lightning Bolt isn't? In Mercadian Masques, Kris Mage is the spellshaper form of Shock, losing a point of damage (meaning it's two less than Bolt), while Divining Witch and Devout Witness are much-better instants and sorceries kept as-is. (Note that the Witch loses tempo, and more than one Demonic Consultation is dangerous.)

But I'd say it's generally something like this:

Speed:
Offense:
Defense:
139359831 wrote:
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---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
Speed:
Offense:
Defense:


I'd say red and white are faster than green. Sure, green gets acceleration, but red/white have the lowest costing creatures. White gets a lot of tokens and Honor of the Pure while red has direct damage to finish you off (which makes it okay to go all in with small, fast creatures).

Also, green is probably second in offense, mostly because it doesn't do much else. Black and white can act control-y.

Finally, red seems worse in defense than green. At least you can hide behind big creatures, but it's probably hard to hide behind (Spark Elemental).
I would've called red the weakest. It does Goblins, Dragons, burn and... um... er...
Green now has decent removal, which was always its main weakness (particularly vs. fliers). Red is still relying on Spine of Ish Sah and Nevinyrral's Disk to get rid of enchantments.

Either way, whether I'm right or wrong in my assesment of whether red is the weakest colour, it is definitely, most certainly not black. Once you've resolved a Yawgmoth's Will FTW in a mono-black deck, you will never again call it the weakest colour.
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I would've called red the weakest. It does Goblins, Dragons, burn and... um... er...
Green now has decent removal, which was always its main weakness (particularly vs. fliers). Red is still relying on Spine of Ish Sah and Nevinyrral's Disk to get rid of enchantments.

Either way, whether I'm right or wrong in my assesment of whether red is the weakest colour, it is definitely, most certainly not black. Once you've resolved a Yawgmoth's Will FTW in a mono-black deck, you will never again call it the weakest colour.


Yeah, because Constructed has shown us time after time that only putting whatever burn cards are in the format can't make a deck work.
I would've called red the weakest. It does Goblins, Dragons, burn and... um... er...
Green now has decent removal, which was always its main weakness (particularly vs. fliers). Red is still relying on Spine of Ish Sah and Nevinyrral's Disk to get rid of enchantments.

Either way, whether I'm right or wrong in my assesment of whether red is the weakest colour, it is definitely, most certainly not black. Once you've resolved a Yawgmoth's Will FTW in a mono-black deck, you will never again call it the weakest colour.



Beast Within isn't exactly a stellar creature killer - you remove one threat to give your opponent a 3/3 creature. Its good but hardly solves Green's problem. Also, Green is great against fliers, its everything else that Green struggles to kill.

I would've called red the weakest. It does Goblins, Dragons, burn and... um... er...
Green now has decent removal, which was always its main weakness (particularly vs. fliers). Red is still relying on Spine of Ish Sah and Nevinyrral's Disk to get rid of enchantments.

Either way, whether I'm right or wrong in my assesment of whether red is the weakest colour, it is definitely, most certainly not black. Once you've resolved a Yawgmoth's Will FTW in a mono-black deck, you will never again call it the weakest colour.


Yeah, because Constructed has shown us time after time that only putting whatever burn cards are in the format can't make a deck work.



+1!

Can't deny the truth - Red is here to stay. Look at the last worlds, a guy came in 3/4th with a pure Red Deck.
My dregs were Dementia Bats (possibly the worst card of the set), though. 




Its so bad even -I- won't use it, and I find bat tribal fun.

My colors and decks
I am Black/Green
I am Black/Green
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Where's the fun in that?
Green isn't half bad in Vintage thanks to Nature's Claim, Trygon Predator, Gaddock Teeg, and Goyf. And Channel is silly of course.
Etiamnunc sto, etiamsi caelum ruat.
Green isn't half bad in Vintage thanks to Nature's Claim, Trygon Predator, Gaddock Teeg, and Goyf. And Channel is silly of course.


no mention of Oath of Druids?
192884403 wrote:
firstrike
56965458 wrote:
97820278 wrote:
56965458 wrote:
97820278 wrote:
Ceci n'est pas une pipe.
This definitely doesn't mean what you think it means.
I was referring to the painting The Treachery of Images.
I know.
Lol can't believe I forgot it; my friend was just saying how much he hates it even though our MUD deck eats it alive XD
Etiamnunc sto, etiamsi caelum ruat.
Green.

Case closed. 


BUT GOYF IS LIKE EVERYWHERE.

Green probably is the worst color in Vintage though.


i'd say red and white are worse in Vintage




I agree with the red statement since wheel is the most used card of it's color, but White has alot of options and things that have been used over the years for control, removal and being just plain broken.

                                                                                                                                                                                        <----- Loser.

Magus of the Moon, Mox Monkey, Goblin Tinkerer, Goblin Welder are all fairly popular, especially in rogue decks.
Etiamnunc sto, etiamsi caelum ruat.
and being just plain broken.



But its balanced!

My colors and decks
I am Black/Green
I am Black/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
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whatcolor_isblack.jpg
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Where's the fun in that?
and being just plain broken.



But its balanced!





That's what always made me lol about it

                                                                                                                                                                                        <----- Loser.

Magus of the Moon, Mox Monkey, Goblin Tinkerer, Goblin Welder are all fairly popular, especially in rogue decks.



All good points

But black is not weak by any means if it was then Underground Sea would not be at it's current value.

                                                                                                                                                                                        <----- Loser.

Magus of the Moon, Mox Monkey, Goblin Tinkerer, Goblin Welder are all fairly popular, especially in rogue decks.


To the best of my knowledge Magus of the Moon is only in one deck (which in my opinion is pretty weak), and I haven't seen anyone using Gorilla Shaman in a while, or anyone using Goblin Tinkerer full stop. I agree that Goblin Welder is excellent, but even he has seen better days
192884403 wrote:
firstrike
56965458 wrote:
97820278 wrote:
56965458 wrote:
97820278 wrote:
Ceci n'est pas une pipe.
This definitely doesn't mean what you think it means.
I was referring to the painting The Treachery of Images.
I know.
Oh, Black is easily in the top two colors in Vintage, no contest. Just saying, as a competitive Vintage player, all colors are fairly well represented, Black and Blue just dominate. A lot. So famous cards in White, Red and Green are less famous simply by virtue of being un-Blue and un-Black.
Etiamnunc sto, etiamsi caelum ruat.
Probably makes sense to talk about Standard since thats what most players, new and otherwise, are exposed to, but Doom Blade and Go for the Throat have already been mentioned.
Black Sun's Zenith, Dismember, Olivia Voldaren, Surgical Extraction, Vault Skirge, Grave Titan, Geth's Verdict, Liliana of The Veil, Unburial Rites, Despise, Phyrexian Crusader, Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas...


I would've called red the weakest. It does Goblins, Dragons, burn and... um... er...
Green now has decent removal, which was always its main weakness (particularly vs. fliers). Red is still relying on Spine of Ish Sah and Nevinyrral's Disk to get rid of enchantments.

Either way, whether I'm right or wrong in my assesment of whether red is the weakest colour, it is definitely, most certainly not black. Once you've resolved a Yawgmoth's Will FTW in a mono-black deck, you will never again call it the weakest colour.


Yeah, because Constructed has shown us time after time that only putting whatever burn cards are in the format can't make a deck work.



+1!

Can't deny the truth - Red is here to stay. Look at the last worlds, a guy came in 3/4th with a pure Red Deck.



Just one problem with that, lads - we're talking overall.
No denying that red is excellent in Standard Constructed, and has its moments in other constructed formats.
But...


  • Is it good in Vintage?

  • Is it good in Limited?

  • Is it good in Casual?

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Doesn't limited tend to be creature-based?



Mostly, but every now and again I've seen near-creatureless limited decks win. Usually mill based decks in draft when no one else was drafting the archetype and the cards were better represented than usual.

I've also seen draft decks with relatively low numbers of creatures win because they were very heavy in control and removal, but the presence of said control and removal is still very reliant on the opponent having creatures.

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Probably makes sense to talk about Standard since thats what most players, new and otherwise, are exposed to, but Doom Blade and Go for the Throat have already been mentioned.
Black Sun's Zenith, Dismember, Olivia Voldaren, Surgical Extraction, Vault Skirge, Grave Titan, Geth's Verdict, Liliana of The Veil, Unburial Rites, Despise, Phyrexian Crusader, Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas...



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