Social Powers - Why are these not in the game already?

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So I am a big person that believes real power should come from roleplaying your character. A lot of characters have tons of combat potential, but their social powers are nearly nonexistent.

Sure, you have diplomacy/bluff/insight to help you do little things...but because so much is left up to the DM, there are no real rules on how a social effect should work? How far is a person willing to believe a lie? How much can you manipulate a person before they start catching on? These are not really talked about.

To rectify this, I wanted to make a new form of power - The Social Utility power. They take up your utility power slots, but they allow you to work wonders when it comes to interacting with people. Here is an example.


Social Powers 1

Customizations basically work to make the power an Encounter power if you select one of the customizations to be added or a Daily power if you select two of them to be a part of the power.

This is currently part of my power pack for Fighter's which you can see here rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?...

Would love to hear some feedback on this.

Why are these not in the game already?



They are, they are called Skill Utility Powers. and many of them are for bluff, diplomacy and intimidate.

Why would I want a social power.  When I'm not incombat, I like to roleplay in my roleplaying games.  ;)  I might be wierd though.
Why are these not in the game already?



They are, they are called Skill Utility Powers. and many of them are for bluff, diplomacy and intimidate.


Erachima Said
"1. Wrong forum.

2. Hard-coded "Diplomancy" is a horrible, game-destroying implementation of social abilities and must be avoided at all costs."

1. I figured this would be a good forum because this is where people contemplate where to get the most out of a character..so I wanted to discuss social power.

2. I am not sure why you feel this way or why it should be avoided. Many newer players are socially unsure of what to do ( how to convince, deceive, undermine, infuriate) very well without resorting to I use a certain skill  and this would give them a good starting point. For veteran players this gives them a neat ability to lean on with newer DMs or even experienced DMs to get a solid answer out of the NPC you want to have a for certain effect on ( c'mon, a high charisma has to be useful for something other than damage.)


 Skrimshaw said "They are, they are called Skill Utility Powers. and many of them are for bluff, diplomacy and intimidate. "


Could you possibly explain some examples that are close to what I listed, would love to be proved wrong! I feel like I am missing out here
This is a great question Suzume!

You are not weird...but we have all been in a game where people are just unsure of what they can and cannot do. These powers would grant them a social ability that would make their characters really good at doing one social thing.

In the example I listed, the person is extremely intimidating and can get one answer for their successes. This merely provides a good mechanic that gives newbies something to go on but also gives veteran players an edge in advanced social situations when they really want to have a guaranteed social effect.

In combat, we are guaranteed certain abilities - wizards fireball...but in social situations , even if you have a high diplomacy, you might not always be the best manipulator because you roll a 1 on the dice..or your DM says  he just does not want to budge. DM example aside, this is to empower players with a cool social effect that they want to pull off on a regular basis.

So I am a big person that believes real power should come from roleplaying your character. A lot of characters have tons of combat potential, but their social powers are nearly nonexistent.

Sure, you have diplomacy/bluff/insight to help you do little things...but because so much is left up to the DM, there are no real rules on how a social effect should work? How far is a person willing to believe a lie? How much can you manipulate a person before they start catching on? These are not really talked about.

To rectify this, I wanted to make a new form of power - The Social Utility power. They take up your utility power slots, but they allow you to work wonders when it comes to interacting with people. Here is an example.[...]

Would love to hear some feedback on this.


But then you make roleplaying and social contests just about dice rolls (as Erachima said, "hard-coded", quite a dirge), not also about the strength of each player's roleplaying prowess.   Sure, you're to roll Bluff whenever you tell the opposing guy some fantastical claim or near-obvious lie, and Diplomacy whenever you're trying to defuse a situation between two hostile parties, but that should also come through via what the player says, not STR vs. Will checks.  You go from semi-random (luck of the draw) to completely random (dice determining everything).

Roleplaying, contrary to popular opinion, has NOT been lost in 4e.  A lot of it has been simplified and become open-ended, but personally I liek it that way.  A lot of the rules that constricted roleplaying and social interactions between multiple parties have been felled and as a result, noncombative interactions have strengthened, considering two parties that know what they're doing and saying in regards to what they do while roleplaying.

You bring up a good point and sum up the basic theme of everyones rebuttles DuelistDelSol.

I am not trying to take away roleplaying. I am trying to give the players one thing they really like to do, in the form of a power that can be pulled off most of the time.

For example, in this power I listed, the player can intimidate very effectively to learn about one thing. If they fail their intimidate roll, the NPC can lie and the player MUST believe it. If they succeed, they can glean a bit of knowledge.

This power probably wins you more enemies than friends, especially in the aftermath. The roleplaying becomes richer because of this, especially in the hands of a skilled DM.

Another example would be a Rogue who uses a power to turn a friend against his friend as a power. Again, this does not win you any friends and also causes a lot of chaos, which can make life difficult for the players when they want to get something. Or it could be a fun tool that the player uses to "stir the pot".

Does this make sense? 
It does.  I can see situations where a bad roll with that power makes guano hit the fan, and that's always a fun and memorable part in any campaign.  But that kind of thing can happen already with the rules set in place.  

Say you want to tell an angry Tiefling mayor of a town that you didn't steal their local treasure, a crystalline sword, even though there were witnesses that swore a similar figure to yours stole about in the night and nicked it.  You tell him via your character that the sword in your hand is just a goblim-made replica, and that's enough of a fantastical claim for your DM to trigger a Bluff check on your part.  You roll a 2 on your Bluff check, and while perhaps a 12 would have made you fail anyway, a 2 would probably have the entire town beading eyes in your direction with furrowed brows and swords drawn; meanwhile, the 12 would have just had the angry Tiefling mayor yell at you to tell him the truth BEFORE involving the guards.
It's an interesting approach, but I prefer to RP social encounters completely, both as a player and a DM. No hard guidelines gives more of a feel that anything could happen IMO.

Skill powers tend to approach this in a more open-ended way. They might give you a reroll under certain conditions, or allow you to substitute one skill for another, but they don't give concrete results to success or failure.

I guess my issue with this is that replacing combat utilities with social utilities edges into the territory of RP vs. combat effectiveness.  I like them to be totally separate whenever possible.

You were told "wrong forum" because CharOp is all about mechanical, combat options and effects.  If you look in class handbooks, feats like Linguist are given a whole different color outside of the good-to-bad scale, because the benefit just can't be measured in a tangible way.

Social encounters are so different from table to table and game to game, that even trying to assign relative value to different options is just impossible. In one campaign, Tell Me What You Know might be very useful; in another, no one you fight or meet will ever know anything of value. Since we can't objectively rate these things, we can't fit them into optimization.

In combat, we are guaranteed certain abilities - wizards fireball...but in social situations , even if you have a high diplomacy, you might not always be the best manipulator because you roll a 1 on the dice..or your DM says  he just does not want to budge. DM example aside, this is to empower players with a cool social effect that they want to pull off on a regular basis.




You can still roll a 1 on a fireball just like you can roll a 1 on a diplomacy check, there are no guarantees. You have the chance to try a combat ability and hit or miss, you have the chance to try a skill and succeed or fail.

Besides, if the DM says that he just does not want to budge, your Utility is unlikely to change that.  
Roleplaying, contrary to popular opinion, has NOT been lost in 4e.

Despite skill challenges doing everything they can to destroy roleplaying, sure.

To the OP - CO does have stuff to say about optimizing skill challenges... in fact, if you read most party optimization threads, a lot of people will spend some effort to make sure all the major skills have at least one character who is good at that roll.

That said, most people hate skill challenges with a passion and don't want to spend any more time thinking about them than necessary. Or perhaps it's just me. =)


2. Hard-coded "Diplomancy" is a horrible, game-destroying implementation of social abilities and must be avoided at all costs."

2. I am not sure why you feel this way or why it should be avoided. Many newer players are socially unsure of what to do ( how to convince, deceive, undermine, infuriate) very well without resorting to I use a certain skill  and this would give them a good starting point. For veteran players this gives them a neat ability to lean on with newer DMs or even experienced DMs to get a solid answer out of the NPC you want to have a for certain effect on ( c'mon, a high charisma has to be useful for something other than damage.)


Using your example;
"I'm gonna run an awesome murder mystery spanning an entire tier."
 "Did you kill him?"
"Yes."
[/campaign]

It's the same problem you had with all those "know everything" spells in 3rd.  

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Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
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Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
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You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
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I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
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we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
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Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
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Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
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This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
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HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
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Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
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How could you force even a PC, let alone a player to believe a lie?  The only thing that comes to mind is taking over the PC's actions completely. 
How could you force even a PC, let alone a player to believe a lie?  The only thing that comes to mind is taking over the PC's actions completely. 

A PC, yes.  But a player, especially if he's told otherwise?  Hell no.


In combat, we are guaranteed certain abilities - wizards fireball...but in social situations , even if you have a high diplomacy, you might not always be the best manipulator because you roll a 1 on the dice..or your DM says  he just does not want to budge. DM example aside, this is to empower players with a cool social effect that they want to pull off on a regular basis.




You can still roll a 1 on a fireball just like you can roll a 1 on a diplomacy check, there are no guarantees. You have the chance to try a combat ability and hit or miss, you have the chance to try a skill and succeed or fail.

Besides, if the DM says that he just does not want to budge, your Utility is unlikely to change that.  



Rolling a 1 on a skill doesn't auto fail, though. Nor does rolling a 20 auto succeed.

Using your example;
"I'm gonna run an awesome murder mystery spanning an entire tier."
 "Did you kill him?"
"Yes."
[/campaign]

It's the same problem you had with all those "know everything" spells in 3rd.  



This! Powers like this can ruin a campaign.

Also, OP said that his power makes it easier for new players. It does the opposite, because it gives new players the idea that they need a specific power in order to do something. 
Hey Everyone, thanks for your responses, gives me a lot to think about. I responded to each of you below.

DuelistDelSol -
    You present a wonderful RP scenario with a great skill check. However, I am sure you have been in both beginner and experienced groups. The experienced group might have a player that does what you suggest. The beginnner might think of this as well sure. However, we have all been in groups where the players were not socially inclined...or went about things that only made the game longer or never asked the right person or eliminated false leads in the story ( as a DM we go through this process a lot).

    This power tells the player that they can do this one social action effectively. It is more of a springboard to help move the games plot along. For veteran players, this becomes a lot of fun if they lean on these powers too much because it is so direct. Without RP sleight of hand or cunning, this power quickly makes you more enemies than friends. Which is the whole fun of RP - consequences. 

Scatterbrained-
You cut right to the heart of why I designed these sorts of powers. 

  1. RP is run differently from game to game and from group to group. You are right. However, I find ( as a person who has a new group or new group members every four to six months) that having some established line is better than having to establish one every game. Combat is something where everyone knows the jive - roll initiative, take turns, use powers, heal damage, deal damage, kill enemies, get loot. In RP however, it is a mess of players not knowing what to do other than hope that they get a chance to propose a skill roll or try to have a certain effect , aka "intimidate NPC to get an answer". PCs should know what they are capable of in a roundabout way without guessing. Veterans run into this problem as much as beginners do.

  2. I think RP is just as mechanical and just as rich as combat in power. Social prowess can win you allies, powers, steer the plot, get access to items, ...I think it is more important by far than combat. Combat happens because you cant reason with the enemy or outmaneuver them politically. These sorts of powers tell the DM, I am very capable at this very particular type of social effect. They also give the player an idea of what kind of character they are playing and what their "ace of spades" is when it comes to social situations.


rczarnec-
   You are right! Nothing is guaranteed when it comes to dice. I need to clarify what I mean. When I say guaranteed, I mean that the wizard can always cast a fireball. The wizard has an aoe effect that deals well with large numbers of mobs. In combat, that is what he is useful for. So, the guarantee I am speaking about is always having access to a certain social effect. IE, the fighter can intimidate someone into giving him an answer

   Secondly, 90% of the time a DM says that the NPC will not budge is because a player has tried to reroll a particular social stat so much or there is no logical way an NPC would give up the answer. However, with this power, you change the rules of engagements and the NPC is forced into an ultimatum...which a lot of characters have difficulty arriving at when they need to. I hope this puts things into more clarity. 

ShakaUVM-
     Some parties do take a good amount of time if they have a proper leader or are veteran players who know what to expect and want to make the most of a situation. I however have played in many many groups where there is no such organization or leadership. I will have one veteran player who is new to the group and is not comfortable trying to make sure everyone can work well together. I am sure you have played in such a situation. This power would allow the group to overcome some of their organizational errors and make the plot move forward much more, like the DM normally wants.

     I believe that social powers would replace skill challenges for the most part. Skill challenges are a dice rolling frenzy. Even at the best of RP times in my group, it is a sentence of description from myself ( the DM) while the players eagerly wait for me to signal their next roll. It takes a lot of impromptu creativity on the players part to try to make a skill challenge exciting. However, the social powers cut right to the heart of what a player would want to do. Then the aftermath and consequences are lovingly left up to the DM. This power would make games more fun for both beginners and veterans in many social encounters I believe. It only adds to a veteran RPers powers and gives the beginners a push.

RPJesus-
    I always loved the divination powers, both as a DM and as a player. As a DM, it allowed the plot to be exposed. However, any storyteller knows that there is always much more to the story than just "who murdered the guy." If you found out who murdered him, isnt the "why did he murder him?" important too? Any rich story will not fall prey to a person finding out. It is just not that simple most of the time. This power allows you to get answers or be fooled by believing lies.

Travesty
     Its an RP scenario and a challenge to the DM. How do you make your players feel emotions? You go into spinning a tale of how the player believes the lie. You can even motivate them with xp if they do well, why not? The mechanical reinforcement of them believing the lie is that the NPC gets a bonus to their will versus the power for repeated usage.



 





 
Erachima Said
"1. Wrong forum.

1. I figured this would be a good forum because this is where people contemplate where to get the most out of a character..so I wanted to discuss social power.



Nope.  This forum is for discussing rules that exist.  House rules and homebrew go in House Rules And Homebrew, not CharOp.
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Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
I would be interested on your take on the subject Weasel.
Many newer players are socially unsure of what to do ( how to convince, deceive, undermine, infuriate) very well without resorting to I use a certain skill  and this would give them a good starting point



No, this hard codes somethingn that would be terrible. If they're learning to play a role-playing game, they should learn to actually play a role-playing game. With newbies I'm usually less likely to rely on skill rolls for role playing instead of letting them feel the game out and try things.

Everyone likes using the term "hard-codes". It is interesting.

I am not sure why you say this is terrible. This merely tells the players they can rely upon one or two powers to get some social action done. IT does not tell them they can only use powers to get effects done nor does it enforce any sort of effect that shotguns plot all over the place. It enables PCs to get answers or to pull off social stunts.

This would be like saying powers hard-code players to believe that combat has no roleplaying opportunities into it and that they do not need to think anymore. 

You're proposing house rules in the wrong forum.


I would guess the answer to your original question, "why didn't they give us these things," is that they gave us other tools to get those jobs done.  Your STR v. Will attack that forces a confession obviates the Intimidate skill in a situation that seems to call for its use.  Clearly the intent was for us to use Intimidate if we wanted to use our dice to solve the problem of an unwilling NPC withholding information. 

If you want to improve your odds with your fists, make nonlethal attacks against the victim and then intimidate him, or tell your DM you want to use Athletics to hoist the guy up by the lapels and shout in his face.  A reasonable DM should let you use your turn in a skill challenge to do that, and make the result a bonus on the next intimidation roll made by someone who wants to use Intimidation to intimidate the target. 

"When Friday comes, we'll all call rats fish." D&D Outsider

rczarnec-
   You are right! Nothing is guaranteed when it comes to dice. I need to clarify what I mean. When I say guaranteed, I mean that the wizard can always cast a fireball. The wizard has an aoe effect that deals well with large numbers of mobs. In combat, that is what he is useful for. So, the guarantee I am speaking about is always having access to a certain social effect. IE, the fighter can intimidate someone into giving him an answer

   Secondly, 90% of the time a DM says that the NPC will not budge is because a player has tried to reroll a particular social stat so much or there is no logical way an NPC would give up the answer. However, with this power, you change the rules of engagements and the NPC is forced into an ultimatum...which a lot of characters have difficulty arriving at when they need to. I hope this puts things into more clarity. 
 


Characters do always have access to certain social effects, they are called skills. If what you are really trying to get across is the idea that PCs should autosucceed with these skills, then that is a terrible idea.


   
     
community.wizards.com/go/forum/view/7588...

My first thought: Should be a Martial Practice.

My other thoughts about the power:

About the miss effect: Defense rolls were removed in 4e. If the attack roll meets or succeeds the defense, it hits. It should read "(...) The target gets a +3 bonus to all defenses against additional uses of this power.", or something similar.

The first customization is essentially broken. Adding it would make the power an encounter power. But instead, you gain an "always-on" power, assuming you take a short rest after each encounter. Second, the wording is inconsistent with the way skill challenges work. You don't have "Intimidate or Bluff skill challenge" - you have skill challenges that might involve Intimidate or Bluff as possible skills. Reword it to "If the next skill challenge you participate in has Bluff or Intimidate as a primary skill, you require one less success to complete that challenge." if you want to keep it mechanically identical, but in line with how skill challenges work.

However, granting auto-successes is not a lot of fun, in my opinion. I'd change this to "During a skill challenge, you may use this power to replace a failed Intimidate or Bluff check against a creature that can see and hear you. If it hits, the check succeeds."

The second customization is completely and utterly broken to infinity as worded. "The target becomes two creatures who can see or hear you" - really?!? You slap a character and clone him/her in the process - I'm totally grabbing this power! Instead, write "You may target a second creature who can see and hear you." or something along those lines.

The customizations are confusing. Putting them in one sentence delimited by commas is a bad idea. Commas should be used when there is a clear connection between subsentences. Reading it front-to-back, it seems like you're listing several effects of a single customization (until you reach the "or", after you've read two distinct customizations already). Instead, use bullet points to clearly denote the distinct options. Like this:

Customizations:


  • Do something cool.

  • Do something completely different.

  • Do nothing, then do something normal or something extraordinary.




As for my opinion about the power's actual gameplay application: I don't like it. The power attempts to compel creatures to say and believe things, and I think this is where imagination and roleplay - possibly along with a DM-set DC skill check - should dictate what happens. To keep it in line with the existing skill framework, I'd change the power to "Effect: You gain a +5 bonus to insight checks to see if the target is lying until the end of the encounter.". Let the DM decide if you can actually break the character's will, and to what extent.

I'd also remove the weapon equipped requirement: The average Fighter could just as well wrap their hands around your throat (particularly Brawler types) and breathe in your face. And why is a Quarterstaff acceptable, but a Mordenkrad or Executioner's Axe insufficient to activate this power?

Then there's the class requirement - isn't this an ability a Rogue would use sooner than a Fighter? Limiting this to fighters seems wrong. Easiest solution would be a change to a Skill Power (Intimidate makes sense). Or rewrite this into a Martial Practice.
Everyone likes using the term "hard-codes". It is interesting.

I am not sure why you say this is terrible. This merely tells the players they can rely upon one or two powers to get some social action done. IT does not tell them they can only use powers to get effects done nor does it enforce any sort of effect that shotguns plot all over the place. It enables PCs to get answers or to pull off social stunts.

This would be like saying powers hard-code players to believe that combat has no roleplaying opportunities into it and that they do not need to think anymore. 



Hard-coding RP and social interactions is bad, because it tends to create degenerate and/or inane results on an alarmingly common basis. The old 3.5 'diplomancer' was a great example of this: if you could get +49 to diplomacy you could convince someone who wanted to kill you to be your best friend with a minute's effort, guaranteed. With +59 you could do it as a standard action. There were some ways to take 10 even in combat, so potentially +50 and take 10. Sure, getting the numbers that high wasn't trivial, but even before you reached that point you could talk people down to neutral as a standard action, or get neutral people to be your best friends. What made this degenerate was hardcoding roleplaying.

Sure, a DM could overrule this, but by and large it's best if the game doesn't break down if you actually go by the rules.

To address your specific example, it forces the DM to have NPCs give up key info every time the power is successfully used, regardless of the situation and how inappropriate it may be in this particular case. We already have  skill which does exactly this, namely intimidate, but it's written in an open enough way that it can be adapted as needed (and skills generally are taken to be a little more flexible than powers as a general rule).   
So you're agreeing with him?
This makes me want to try and build a character optimised for social encounters.
How about beating the mayor bloody, using an absurdly high intimidate stat to make them surrender, then tie him up to make him helpless, cast Rending fear of khirad to make him answer all your questions, then cast Memory to mist and heal him to hide the wounds.

Hard-coding RP and social interactions is bad, because it tends to create degenerate and/or inane results on an alarmingly common basis. The old 3.5 'diplomancer' was a great example of this: if you could get +49 to diplomacy you could convince someone who wanted to kill you to be your best friend with a minute's effort, guaranteed. With +59 you could do it as a standard action. There were some ways to take 10 even in combat, so potentially +50 and take 10. Sure, getting the numbers that high wasn't trivial, but even before you reached that point you could talk people down to neutral as a standard action, or get neutral people to be your best friends. What made this degenerate was hardcoding roleplaying.


IIRC there was a way to use other skills in place of Diplomacy, so you could play a Thri-Kreen, with a base +30 to jump, then convince your worst enemy to become your best friend by showing off your mad slam dunk skills.

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
is one example
Sure, a DM could overrule this


Which amusingly brings us back to where we are now and basically renders these social powers obsolete.

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
RPJesus-

    I always loved the divination powers, both as a DM and as a player. As a DM, it allowed the plot to be exposed. However, any storyteller knows that there is always much more to the story than just "who murdered the guy." If you found out who murdered him, isnt the "why did he murder him?" important too? Any rich story will not fall prey to a person finding out. It is just not that simple most of the time. This power allows you to get answers or be fooled by believing lies.


'Did you kill him?"
"yes."
'Why?"
"He stole my cookie."

2 uses and the game is over.
Yes, wrong forum.

Terrible idea.  If you want your roleplaying game to be a rollplaying game where all you do is make everyone submit to your die rolls, you should be playing it alone, ie: as a solo-play computer game.
Seriously and a "make you tell truth and it's vs will?" wtf is that lol

It's too easy. 
Gratz Gaming'z calm and logic is astounding.
Even though I don't really like the idea, everyting he has said that I have read (half of the first page xD) has been spot on.
I don't even feel like I have to contribute, just keep doing what you're doing and hope a developer sees this. 

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg)

Look at my Playable Illithid, my Monster Generating excel file , my Lifestealer in progresss (Heroic tier almost complete!) , our Improved Orc, our Improving Kenku and our Improving Duergar
Also, take a look at my friend's Improved Minotaur, Gadren's amazing Arcane Archer and of course the Avatar Project
More links! Qube's Block Builder, Classless D&D and the characters I've created using the classless system.