My Own Attempt at Classless 4E

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Just for the heck of it My idea is simple: taking the GW4E and Character Companions base mechanics, then tinkering with it for the heck of it

Character Creation


Race: Choose an existing race.
Ability Scores: Same as mentioned in the PHB
Hit points at 1st level: 12 + your Constitution score
Hit points gained per level beyond the 1st level: 5
Fortitude Defense: 10 + your level + the better of your Strength or Constitution modifiers + additional modifiers
Reflex Defense: 10 + your level + the better of your Dexterity or Intelligence modifiers + additional modifiers
Will Defense: 10 + your level + the better of your Wisdom or Charisma modifiers + additional modifiers
Armor Class: 10 + your level + additional modifiers (typically armor and shield); if you're wearing light armor or no armor, add the better of your Dexterity or Intelligence modifiers
Speed: As determined by your race (plus or minus modifiers)
Initiative modifiers: Your level + your Dexterity modifier + additional modifiers
Attack Bonus: 4 + level + modifiers (typically the attack power's modifier, combat advantage, and weapon proficiency [if a weapon attack])
EDIT: Special Note: enhancement bonuses are effectively removed, as crit dice is now automatically 1dX at level 1, with additional crit dice at levels 7, 12, 17, 22, and 27 (X meaning the enchantment's crit dice -- mundane weapons have no crit dice [X equals zero])
Skills: Skills are an optional feature that allow you to specialize in a field; for instance, someone who might not be innately strong but is trained in the proper use of his body might be able to climb walls just as expertly.  When utilizing this feature, powers whose keywords include a skill can benefit from the bonuses you have for that skill.  For example, Recalled Lore has the History keyword, which means that the Intelligence check you make with the power gains all the bonuses you have for the History skill.
Skill Training: Choose four skills.  You gain a +2 training bonus to each of your selected skills.
Skill Bonus: the key ability score modifier + your level + all the bonuses you have for the skill (racial, background, training, power, etc.)


Primary Role: Choose from one of four roles, or roll a d4 to determine this: Defender, Striker, Controller, Leader.  You gain your primary role's benefit.
Secondary Role: Choose a secondary role, or roll a d4 to determine this.  You count as that role when making attacks with effects that depend on your role, and makes you qualify for role specific feats, paragon paths, epic destinies and utility powers.  However, if you selected or rolled the same secondary role as your primary role, see the SPECIAL entry on Secondary Role benefits.

Primary Role Benefits

Defender: You gain the Defender's Aura, and Foe's Folly powers

Defender Aura | Defender Utility
You work to occupy nearby foes using a combination of fighting skill and clever tactics to keep them distracted.
At-Will * Aura
Minor Action | Personal
Effect
: You activate an aura 1 that lasts until you end it as a minor action or until you fall unconscious. While in the aura, any enemy takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls when it makes an attack that does not include among its targets either you or an ally of yours who has this aura active. Marked enemies are not subject to this aura.



Foe's Folly | Defender Attack
Ignoring you in battle leaves a foe open to a devastating assault.
At-Will
Opportunity Action | Personal
Trigger
: An enemy subject to your defender aura either shifts or makes an attack that targets an ally of yours but not you or an ally who has an active defender aura.
Effect: After the triggering enemy's attack has been resolved, apply one of the following effects, based only on your secondary role:

  • Leader: one ally who was the target of the attack gains temporary hit points equal to your primary ability modifier

  • Controller: you can slide the target up to three squares to a square adjacent to you as a free action

  • Striker: the triggering enemy takes damage equal to your primary ability modifier




Striker: You gain the Sneaky Surprise power
Sneaky Surprise | Role Attack
At-Will
No Action
Trigger
: You hit with an attack against an enemy you have combat advantage against.
Effect: The target takes 1d6 extra damage.  This damage increases to 2d6 at level 11, and 3d6 at level 21.  In addition, the attack gains an additional benefit based on your secondary role:


  • Leader: The target grants combat advantage for the next attack against it before the end of your next turn.

  • Defender: The target is marked by you until the end of your next turn

  • Controller: You can slide the target 1 square.


Special: You can only use this power once per turn.


Controller: You gain the Control Zone power
Control Zone | Role Attack
Encounter * Zone
Minor Action | Area burst 1 within 10
Effect
: The burst creates a zone that lasts until the end of your next turn.  The effect of this zone depends on your secondary role:


  • Leader: Enemies take a -2 penalty to all defenses while in the zone.

  • Defender: Enemies take a -2 to attack rolls while in the zone.

  • Striker: Enemies who start their turn in the zone take damage equal to your primary ability modifier


Special: At level 15, you can use this power an additional time.



Leader: You gain the Life-Giving Word power
Life-Giving Word | Role Utility
Encounter * Healing
Minor Action | Close Burst 5 (10 at level 15, 15 at level 25)
Target
: You or one ally in the burst
Effect: The target spends a healing surge, and has an additional effect based on your secondary role:


  • Defender: The target gains temporary hit points equal to your primary ability modifier + level

  • Controller: You can slide the target up to three squares

  • Striker: The target gains a power bonus to their next damage roll before the end of their next turn equal to their primary ability modifier


Special: You can use this power twice per encounter, but only once per round.  At level 15, you can use this power an additional time



Secondary Role Benefits: Secondary role only determines the alternate or additional benefits you may gain from powers and items, as well as allow you access to feats, paragon paths and epic destinies that require that role.

SPECIAL
If your secondary role is the same as your primary role, you lose a significant number of power-based features.  To make up for this loss, these are the following alterations to your class features:


  • Foe's Folly (Defender) : You instead gain the Stalwart Defender power


Stalwart Defender | Defender Attack
You throw yourself in front of the attack, taking the hit for your comrade.
At-Will
Immediate Interrupt | Personal
Trigger
: An enemy subject to your defender aura makes an attack that targets an ally of yours but not you or an ally who has an active defender aura.
Effect: One ally who was the target of the attack and is adjacent to you gains a power bonus to defenses equal to your primary ability modifier until the start of your next turn.  If the triggering attack still hits, you are hit instead of the ally.
After the attack resolves, slide the ally one square to a square adjacent to you, and shift one square into the square he was in before the slide.



  • Sneaky Surprise (Striker) : Your Sneaky Surprise deals an additional die of damage (2d6 instead of 1d6, 3d6 instead of 2d6, 4d6 instead of 3d6)

  • Control Zone (Controller) : Each creature adjacent to the zone is pulled up to two squares.  Enemies who start their turn in the zone are slowed until the end of their turn.

  • Life-Giving Word (Leader) : The target of your Life-Giving Word regains additional hit points equal to your primary ability modifier, and another ally in the burst regains hit points equal to your level.



Elemental Affinity: Choose up to two damage types, between the following:


  • acid

  • cold

  • fire

  • force

  • lightning

  • necrotic

  • poison

  • psychic

  • radiant

  • thunder


Whenever you pick a power that has the implement keyword, you can choose to change the power's damage type to one of the damage types you have selected.
Special: The first time this has been determined in your character's life, you can only have it changed when you spend a retrain slot to do so.

Powers: you may choose two at-will attack powers, one encounter attack power, and one daily attack power at level one.  In addition, you have a basic attack, as well as all the non-leveled skill powers.

Unless it is specified, you can only use one No Action power for each triggering action (so you cannot use all your weapon at-will, encounter and daily powers on a single attack).

Non-Leveled Skill Powers (still in progress)


Hiding Distraction | At-Will Utility
You create a diversion to hide from your enemies.
Encounter * Bluff
Standard Action * Ranged Sight
Special
: This does not provoke opportunity attacks.  In addition, during combat, you cannot use this power against the same creature more than once.
Target
: At least one creature who can see or hear you.
Check: Charisma vs. Wisdom (Insight) +10
Success
: You have superior concealment against the target, and can use the Evading Maneuver power against the target as a free action.



Monster Lore | At-Will Utility
You try to recall the strengths and weaknesses of your foe.
At-Will * Varies
No Action * Ranged Sight
Special
: This does not provoke opportunity attacks
Target: One creature
Effect: If the target is Aberrant or Natural in origin, make a Wisdom check.  Otherwise, make an Intelligence check.  Use the following DC table, instead of the regular DC table:
Target DC - Type of information learned
15 - Name, Type, Keywords
20 - Powers
25 - Resistances and Vulnerabilities
+5 if the target is of paragon tier, +10 instead if the target is of epic tier.
Special: Use the following table to determine the power's keyword
Keyword - Target Origin
Arcana - Elemental, Fey, Shadow
Dungeoneering - Aberrant
Nature - Natural
Religion - Undead



Evading Maneuver | At-Will Utility
You become quiet and stealthy.
At-Will * Stealth
No Action * Ranged Sight
Target
: Each creature you have superior cover or concealment against.
Special: This power can be used at the end of a move action, or at the end of any movement that is part of another action.  In addition, this does not provoke opportunity attacks.
Check: Dexterity vs. Wisdom (Perception) +10  
Success: You are Hidden from the target.
Failure: If you were previously Hidden from the target, the Hidden condition against the target ends.
Special: If you moved more than two squares, repeat the check at a -5 penalty.  If your movement involves running, increase the penalty to -10.
Special: During the target's next turn, the target can make a Wisdom (Perception) check as a minor action to try and determine your location.

Hidden Condition: Until the Hidden condition ends, you are Invisible to creatures you are hidden from, and the target cannot determine your actions or position.  When you make an attack, treat the target as if it has the Surprised condition, and the Hidden condition ends.  Other actions, like talking louder than a whisper, can cause the Hidden condition to end.




Intimidate | At-Will Utility
You cause your foes to cower in fear and obey your next command.
Encounter * Intimidate
Standard Action * Ranged Sight
Special
: This does not provoke opportunity attacks. In addition, during combat, you cannot use this power against the same creature more than once, and creatures immune to the Fear keyword cannot be affected by this power.
Target
: At least one creature who can see or hear you.
Check: Charisma or Strength vs. Will.  If the target is unfriendly, -5 to the check.  If the target is hostile, increase the penalty to -10.
Success
: The target takes one of the following actions as a free action:

  • Reveal information

  • Surrender (must be bloodied)

  • Any action that you determine, if it is possible to do so


Special: After the power is resolved, the target becomes hostile towards you.


 
 
- You gain utility powers at levels 2, 6, 10, 12, 16, 19, 22, 26 and 29.
- You gain an additional encounter attack power at levels 3, 7 and 11, and can replace one of your existing encounter attack powers at levels 13, 17, 21, 23 and 27.
- You gain an additional daily attack power at levels 5, 9, and 20, and can replace one of your daily attack powers at levels 15, 19, 25, and 29.

Feats: You gain 1 feat at level 1, with additional feats at levels 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 11, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20, 21, 22, 24, 26, 28, and 30.

Equipment: You get a cloth armor and 100gp at level 1, which is an abstraction of the wealth a character has acquired throughout his or her lifetime before becoming an adventurer.  At higher levels you instead gain three magical items - one is at most a level higher than you, another is at most the same level as you, and one is at most one level below you - and you gain the gp equivalent of one equipment that's one level lower than you.

I'm also thinking that, just like in GW4E, equipment would take on a more generic layout:


  • Unarmed/improvised attacks (3/6 if ranged)


    • Swift: +3 to hit, 1d4 damage

    • Powerful: +2 to hit, 1d8 damage


  • Light weapons (5/10 if ranged)


    • One handed: +3 to hit, 1d8 damage (5 gp)

    • Two handed: +2 to hit, 1d12 damage (15 gp)


  • Heavy weapons (15/30 if ranged)


    • One handed: +2 to hit, 1d10 damage (20 gp)

    • Two handed: +2 to hit, 2d8 damage (30 gp)


  • Armor


    • Light: +3 armor bonus to AC (20 gp)

    • Heavy: +7 armor bonus to AC (45 gp)

    • Shield: +1 shield bonus to AC and Reflex (5 gp)



EDIT: Magical equipment would have only two basic effects: crit dice size, and whatever special property they have.  Plusses are removed and enchantments that are dependent on enhancement bonus will no longer scale (adjusted on a case-to-case basis).

"Class", "themes" and "power sources" would seem more fluff in this case if you ask me, and thus can be dropped mechanically
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This is what I believe is the spirit of D&D 4E, and my deal breaker for D&D Next: equal opportunities, with distinct specializations, in areas where conflict happens the most often, without having to worry about heavy micromanagement or system mastery. What I hope to be my most useful contributions to the D&D Community: DM Idea: Collaborative Mapping, Classless 4E (homebrew system, that hopefully helps in D&D Next development), Gamma World 7E random character generator (by yours truly), and the Concept of Perfect Imbalance (for D&D Next and other TRPGs in development) Pre-3E D&D should be recognized for what they were: simulation wargames where people could tell stories with The Best Answer to "Why 4E?" Fun vs. Engaging
I love this! It's like how to make a NPC but so much more! :D

Why do you have the defenses calculated with "+ your level" if you still allow them to get magic weapons and feats? The idea is that PCs only get "+ half your level" and have to make up for the half missing with feats, class features, magic items and clever tactics. 

Are you also going to post a set of "standard" atwill, encounder and daily powers? 'Cause right now I don't know why anyone would use this... I Imagine somone without the books and a really creative and roleplay-oriented group could really use this to his advantage, but would still be missing all his powers.

What is your goal with this? I sometimes do something like this just for the heck of doing it, why are you? 

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Look at my Playable Illithid, my Monster Generating excel file , my Lifestealer in progresss (Heroic tier almost complete!) , our Improved Orc, our Improving Kenku and our Improving Duergar
Also, take a look at my friend's Improved Minotaur, Gadren's amazing Arcane Archer and of course the Avatar Project
More links! Qube's Block Builder, Classless D&D and the characters I've created using the classless system.
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I love this! It's like how to make a NPC but so much more! :D

Why do you have the defenses calculated with "+ your level" if you still allow them to get magic weapons and feats? The idea is that PCs only get "+ half your level" and have to make up for the half missing with feats, class features, magic items and clever tactics. 

Are you also going to post a set of "standard" atwill, encounder and daily powers? 'Cause right now I don't know why anyone would use this... I Imagine somone without the books and a really creative and roleplay-oriented group could really use this to his advantage, but would still be missing all his powers.

What is your goal with this? I sometimes do something like this just for the heck of doing it, why are you? 

Magic weapons would be useful but not an absolute requirement, useful because they'd help you deal more damage[1] and have an additional kicker in their enchantments, not absolutely required because they'd have no effect on your to-hit.

Magical defensive equipment have a similar theme to it: they are useful because their enchantments basically give nifty benefits, but there's no need to go armor-hunting because a mundane Plate Armor would be the same as a Godplate Radiant Armor.  Plusses, if used, would be to determine armor enchantment level, but not the + to AC.

[ I'm also thinking of replacing the add-to-stats with something else, maybe additional role features at levels 4, 8, 11, 14, 18, 21, 24 and 28, so that light armor wouldn't overlap with heavy armor. ]

The feats I'm allowing primarily to allow customization, but I'm limiting their usefulness since they're no longer needed to fix the math gap; Expertise feats would have their accuracy bonus removed -- or at worst limited to just +1 regardless of level -- but their unique benefits retained, and Improved Defenses and the like would not scale up as your level improves, so Improved Defenses is +1 at level 1, and +1 at level 30, making them far less "must have" than before.

I'll think of a few powers -- maybe 2 at-wills, 6 encounters [levels 1,3 & 7], 6 dailies [levels 1,5, & 9] and 6 utilities [levels 2,6, &10] per role, based on existing class powers -- but as this isn't a serious endeavor (as I said, my goal is just to do this as a mental exercise, like how I did my Skill Focus ala-Essentials Expertise feats), this may take some time.

[1] - still considering restricting enhancement bonus to crit dice and weapon level only, so a magical longsword would only be singificantly more powerful during those "moments of awesome", removing iron armbands of power and the like in their entirety and replacing it with "+ half level damage"


Level 1 At-Will Attack




























Basic AttackUniversal Attack 1
You slash, hack, stab or shoot at an opponent.
At-Will Weapon
Standard Action - Melee or Ranged Weapon
Target:One creature
Attack:Level + 4 + Proficiency vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] + Primary ability modifier damage.





























Harrying AssaultUniversal Attack 1
You repeatedly strike at an opponent, hampering his movement.
At-Will Weapon
No Action - Melee or Ranged Weapon
Trigger:You hit with a basic attack during your turn.
Target:The creature you hit with the triggering attack.
Effect: Your basic attack gains one of the following benefits, based on your primary or secondary roles, but not both.

  • Leader: One ally within 5 squares of the target can make a saving throw as a free action.

  • Controller: Slide the target three squares.

  • Defender: Before the end of your next turn, if the target makes an attack against an ally that does not include you while it is marked by you or under the effect of Defender's Aura, as an opportunity action you can give it a -2 penalty to attack rolls until the end of its turn.

  • Striker: The target takes extra damage equal to your Primary ability modifier.






























Cleaving StrikeUniversal Attack 1
You swing your weapon in a wide arc.
At-Will Weapon
No Action - Melee or Ranged Weapon
Trigger:You hit with a basic attack during your turn.
Target:The creature you hit with the triggering attack.
Effect: Your basic attack gains one of the following benefits, based on your primary or secondary roles, but not both.



  • Leader: One ally adjacent to you or the target can shift 2 squares as a free action.

  • Controller:You can push each creature adjacent to you 1 square.

  • Defender:  The target and one creature adjacent to you or the target are marked until the end of your next turn.

  • Striker: One creature adjacent to you or the target takes extra damage equal to your primary ability modifier.






























Magical BurstUniversal Attack 1
A silvery projectile is launched from your hand, and detonates on impact.
At-Will Implement
Standard Action - Ranged 10
Target:One creature
Attack:Level + 4 vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d8 + Primary ability modifier damage. In addition, the power has one of the following benefits, based on your primary or secondary roles, but not both.

  • Leader: One ally adjacent to the target gains temporary hit points equal to your Primary ability modifier.

  • Controller: You can slide the target and each creature adjacent to it 1 square.

  • Defender:Before the end of your next turn, if the target makes an attack against an ally that does not include you while it is marked by you or under the effect of Defender's Aura, as an immediate interrupt you can reduce the attack's damage by an amount equal to your Primary ability modifier.

  • Striker: The target and each creature adjacent to it takes damage equal to your Primary ability modifier.


Level 21: 2d8 + Primary ability modifier damage.


Level 1 Encounter Attack


























Pummeling CrashUniversal Attack 1
Your powerful strike causes your foe to stagger a bit.
Encounter Weapon
No Action - Melee or Ranged Weapon
Trigger:You hit with a basic attack during your turn.
Target:The target of the triggering attack.
Effect: The attack deals 1[W] extra damage, and you can push the target up to 1 square. In addition, the power has two of the following benefits, based on your primary and secondary roles.

  • Leader: One or two allies can make a basic attack against it as a free action.

  • Controller: The target is knocked prone and slowed until the end of its next turn.

  • Defender: If the target makes an attack against an ally that does not include you before the end of your next turn, as an immediate interrupt you can shift up to 2 squares to a square adjacent to the target and make a melee basic attack against it.

  • Striker: You deal an extra 1[W] damage.


Level 11: The triggering attack instead deals 2[W] extra damage.
Level 21: The triggering attack instead deals 3[W] extra damage.



Magical Pillar | Attack Level 1
A huge pillar of magic erupts from underneath your enemies.
Encounter * Implement
Standard Action | Area Burst 1 within 10
Target
: Each creature in the burst
Attack: vs. Reflex
Hit: 2d6 + Primary modifier damage, and each target is pushed 3 squares. You gain two additional benefits based on your primary and secondary roles:
Level 11: 3d6 + Primary modifier damage
Level 21: 5d6 + Primary modifier damage



  • Leader: Each ally in the burst regains hit points equal to your Primary ability modifier. If an ally is still bloodied after regaining his or her hit points, as a free action they can spend a healing surge to gain temporary hit points equal to their healing surge value (instead of regaining hit points).

  • Controller: Each enemy in the burst is blinded until the end of your next turn.

  • Defender: Enemies you hit with this power deal half damage to your allies with their next attack before the end of your next turn.

  • Striker: The attack deals half damage on a miss.  In addition, one creature in the burst takes an additional 2d6 extra damage, even on a miss.




Spectral Summon | Attack Level 1
An image of a fiery knight appears and proceeds to assault your foes.
Encounter * Implement, Illusion, Conjuration
Standard Action | Ranged 5
Effect
: You conjure a medium or smaller creature of your choice in an unoccupied square within range. This creature occupies that square, blocks enemy movement but allows allies to move through it, and lasts until the end of your next turn, or until you dismiss it as a minor action.  You can move the creature 5 squares as a move action. Additional abilities of the creature are based on your primary and secondary roles:


  • Leader: The moment the creature appears, each ally within two squares of the creature can make a saving throw as a free action, with a power bonus equal to your primary ability modifier.

  • Controller: Each enemy adjacent to the summon is slowed.

  • Defender: If an enemy adjacent to the conjuration shifts or makes an attack and does not include you or an ally with an active defender aura as a target you can make an attack vs. Reflex against it as an immediate interrupt. On a hit the target is pushed 1 square and knocked prone.

  • Striker: Before the end of your next turn, you can make the following attack as a free action:


    • Target: One enemy adjacent to the conjuration

    • Attack: vs. Reflex

    • Hit: 4d8+your primary ability modifier damage.




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Level 1 Daily Attack
Adrenaline Rush | Attack Level 1
You instantly become filled with the rush of battle
Daily
Free Action | Personal
Trigger
: You become bloodied.
Special: You can instead activate this as a minor action during your turn.
Effect: Until the end of the encounter, you benefit from two of these effects, based on your primary and secondary role:


  • Leader: You and allies within 5 squares of you gain temporary hit points equal to your primary ability modifier each time you hit with your basic attacks.  Increase the temporary hit points granted to 5 + your primary ability modifier at level 11, and to 10 + your primary ability modifier at level 21.

  • Defender: You gain a +2 power bonus to opportunity attacks against enemies you have marked or are affected by Defender Aura.

  • Controller: Each enemy adjacent to the target of your basic attacks take damage equal to your primary ability modifier.

  • Striker: Your basic attacks deal ongoing damage of the same type as one of your elemental affinities equal to your primary ability modifier (save ends).  This ongoing damage increases to 2 + your primary ability modifier at level 11, and 4 + your primary ability modifier at level 21.


 
Magic Storm | Attack Level 1
The battle is enveloped in a blanket of magical destruction
Daily * Fear, Implement, Variable
Standard Action | Area Burst 2 within 20
Target
: Each creature in burst
Attack: vs. Reflex
Hit: 3d6 + Primary ability modifier damage.
Miss: Half damage.
Effect: The burst creates a zone that lasts until the end of your next turn.  As a move action you can move the zone 6 squares. The zone has two effects, based on your primary and secondary roles:


  • Leader: Allies that start their turn in the zone gain resistance to all damage equal to your primary ability modifier until the end of their next turn.  This resistance increases to 5 + your primary ability modifier at level 11, and 10 + your primary ability modifier at level 21.

  • Defender: Enemies in the zone that make an attack against an ally that does not include you or an ally with an active defender aura as a target take damage equal to 3 + your primary ability modifier.  This damage increases to 6 + your primary ability modifier at level 11, and 9 + your primary ability modifier at level 21.

  • Controller: Enemies that start their turn in the zone are knocked prone.

  • Striker: Enemies that start their turn in the zone gain vulnerability to the damage type dealt by this power equal to your primary ability modifier, until the end of your next turn.  This vulnerability increases to 2 + your primary ability modifier at level 11, and 4 + your primary ability modifier at level 21.


Sustain Minor: The zone persists until the end of your next turn.



Level 2 Utility Powers

Defensive Stance | Level 2 Utility 
You go on the defensive.
Encounter * Stance
Minor Action | Personal
Effect
: You enter the defensive stance.  Until the stance ends, you benefit from one of these effects, based on your primary or secondary roles, but not both:


  • Leader: You and an ally adjacent to you gain a +2 power bonus to saving throws.  As a free action, you instead grant yourself or an ally adjacent to you a power bonus to their next saving throw equal to 5 + your primary ability modifier, and the stance ends.

  • Defender: You and an ally adjacent to you gain a +2 power bonus to AC.  As an immediate interrupt, if an enemy makes an attack against an ally adjacent to you, you can instead make a basic attack against the triggering enemy, and the stance ends.

  • Controller: Each enemy adjacent to you takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls.  As an immediate interrupt, if an enemy makes an attack against you, you can instead gain a +4 power bonus to the defense that attack targeted, and the stance ends.

  • Striker: As a move action you can shift your speed.  As a minor action, you can instead shift half your speed, and the stance ends.


Special: Once per round as a minor action during your turn, you can switch between benefits.


Battle Shout | Level 2 Utility
You cause a deafening roar.
Encounter * Fear
Minor Action | Close Blast 3
Effect
: The power has two effects, based on your primary and secondary roles:


  • Leader: Each ally in the blast can make a saving throw as a free action.

  • Defender: Each enemy in the blast is marked by you until the end of your next turn.  You gain temporary hit points equal to your primary ability modifier + the number of enemies marked by this power.

  • Controller: Push each enemy in the blast a number of squares equal to your primary ability modifier.

  • Striker: Each enemy in the blast grants combat advantage to you until the end of your next turn.




Level 3 Encounter Powers


Greater Cleave | Encounter Attack Level 3
Like a sickle to wheat, you fell many foes in one great sweep
Encounter * Weapon, Fear
Standard Action | Close Burst 1
Target
: Each enemy in burst.
Effect: Make a melee basic attack against each target in the burst.  In addition, you gain the benefits of two of the following effects below, depending on both your primary and secondary role:


  • Leader: You and each ally within 5 squares of you can make a saving throw as a free action, with a power bonus to the saving throw equal to the number of targets in the burst.

  • Defender: Until the start of your next turn, each target takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls.  In addition, as a free action you can use the Intimidate utility power.

  • Controller: Slide each target hit by the attacks granted by this power 3 squares, and push each target missed by the attacks granted by this power 1 square.

  • Striker: Each attack granted by this power deals an additional 2[W] damage.



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57047238 wrote:
If you're crossing the street and see a city bus barreling straight toward you with 'GIVE ME YOUR WALLET!' painted across its windshield, you probably won't be reaching for your wallet.
I Don't Always Play Strikers...But When I Do, I Prefer Vampire Stay Thirsty, My Friends
This is what I believe is the spirit of D&D 4E, and my deal breaker for D&D Next: equal opportunities, with distinct specializations, in areas where conflict happens the most often, without having to worry about heavy micromanagement or system mastery. What I hope to be my most useful contributions to the D&D Community: DM Idea: Collaborative Mapping, Classless 4E (homebrew system, that hopefully helps in D&D Next development), Gamma World 7E random character generator (by yours truly), and the Concept of Perfect Imbalance (for D&D Next and other TRPGs in development) Pre-3E D&D should be recognized for what they were: simulation wargames where people could tell stories with The Best Answer to "Why 4E?" Fun vs. Engaging
Oh it was you who did those beautiful skill focus feats! :D

It doesn't say anywhere in your posts "You do not gain benefit from enhancement bonuses" which leads people to think that you can still benefit from magical items in that area, but this can be easily fixed ;)

I like where you are going with this. I just might use it with a couple of friends of mine as a roleplaying exercise (how well can you roleplay/re-theme something that has no other definition than striker/defender/leader/controler ?). It's like "create your own class in 15 minutes"! 

Keep going, and if you need some help, just send me a line! :D 

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Look at my Playable Illithid, my Monster Generating excel file , my Lifestealer in progresss (Heroic tier almost complete!) , our Improved Orc, our Improving Kenku and our Improving Duergar
Also, take a look at my friend's Improved Minotaur, Gadren's amazing Arcane Archer and of course the Avatar Project
More links! Qube's Block Builder, Classless D&D and the characters I've created using the classless system.
Oh it was you who did those beautiful skill focus feats! :D

It doesn't say anywhere in your posts "You do not gain benefit from enhancement bonuses" which leads people to think that you can still benefit from magical items in that area, but this can be easily fixed ;)

I like where you are going with this. I just might use it with a couple of friends of mine as a roleplaying exercise (how well can you roleplay/re-theme something that has no other definition than striker/defender/leader/controler ?). It's like "create your own class in 15 minutes"! 

Keep going, and if you need some help, just send me a line! :D 

Yeah, these skill focus feats

I've double clarified the whole thing at the first page, thanks for that comment

Actually, it'd be interesting how you could give suggestions on powers for each role I'm thinking of taking some inspiration from Dragon #403's Unearthed Arcana: A Hero's First Steps

EDIT: The powers as listed here have been transferred to my second post.
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57047238 wrote:
If you're crossing the street and see a city bus barreling straight toward you with 'GIVE ME YOUR WALLET!' painted across its windshield, you probably won't be reaching for your wallet.
I Don't Always Play Strikers...But When I Do, I Prefer Vampire Stay Thirsty, My Friends
This is what I believe is the spirit of D&D 4E, and my deal breaker for D&D Next: equal opportunities, with distinct specializations, in areas where conflict happens the most often, without having to worry about heavy micromanagement or system mastery. What I hope to be my most useful contributions to the D&D Community: DM Idea: Collaborative Mapping, Classless 4E (homebrew system, that hopefully helps in D&D Next development), Gamma World 7E random character generator (by yours truly), and the Concept of Perfect Imbalance (for D&D Next and other TRPGs in development) Pre-3E D&D should be recognized for what they were: simulation wargames where people could tell stories with The Best Answer to "Why 4E?" Fun vs. Engaging
Primary Role Benefits:
The controller benefit sticks out like a soar thumb. When I think controller I think slides, dazes, defense penalties and ally-friendly multitarget attacks, not this. Controllers **** up enemies and destroy minions, not prolong status effects.

 Having 2 primary roles seems kinda extreme to me. Why not 1 primary and 1 secondary.

"Choose another secondary role. You also count for that role when making attacks with effects that depend on your role, and makes you qualify for role specific feats, paragon paths, epic destinies and utility powers"

The Attacks:
In order to make everybody live up to their role I recommend:
· Making it a free action: When you hit a target with a basic attack
· Making it only have one effect, but to be usable multiple times during an encounter (scaling with level)

Harrying Swing fixes/edits/suggestions:
· Attack: Primary Ability Score vs AC
· Striker: You deal extra damage equal to your Secondary Ability Score
· Defender: If the target makes an attack that does not include you as a target before the end of your next turn, you can make an immediate interrupt to give the target a -2 penalty to all defenses until the end of your next turn.

Magical Burst fixes/edits/suggestions/comments
·
No multitarget love?
· No love for ranged players?
· I love that controller rider!
· No love for martial strikers? You've trusted us with flavor so far, why not now? Just make it say "deals extra damage equal to your Secondary Ability Score" and let us decide the fluff.

Pummeling Smash:
· Is awesome

Pillar of Flame
Are these all powers you can choose from, or powers you get? 'cause if this is a mandatory power than I would hate to have my fluffed out frost mage to be throwing out giant columns of fire eevery encounter...

Other comments: 
for me this is a "make-it-your-self" class and theme kit. It has all the mechanics required and nothing extra, I can out the meat on the bones as I please. Class, themes and power sources is something the player should make up by himself. This is all targeted towards a RP oriented groups.

Keep up the good work, and give us something that hit multiple enemies!

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg)

Look at my Playable Illithid, my Monster Generating excel file , my Lifestealer in progresss (Heroic tier almost complete!) , our Improved Orc, our Improving Kenku and our Improving Duergar
Also, take a look at my friend's Improved Minotaur, Gadren's amazing Arcane Archer and of course the Avatar Project
More links! Qube's Block Builder, Classless D&D and the characters I've created using the classless system.
Primary Role Benefits:
The controller benefit sticks out like a soar thumb. When I think controller I think slides, dazes, defense penalties and ally-friendly multitarget attacks, not this. Controllers **** up enemies and destroy minions, not prolong status effects.

I'm thinking that "controllers **** up enemies and destroy minions" with their powers, not as a universal role feature; extending status effects would have enemies ****ed up for longer It's a question of balancing the feature relative to other roles, since you could easily have a striker-controller who blinds for two rounds in addition to dealing extra damage.

Having 2 primary roles seems kinda extreme to me. Why not 1 primary and 1 secondary.

"Choose another secondary role. You also count for that role when making attacks with effects that depend on your role, and makes you qualify for role specific feats, paragon paths, epic destinies and utility powers"

I was wondering where you got the "two primary roles" bit, but I guess the secondary role feature does need rewording Thanks.


The Attacks:
In order to make everybody live up to their role I recommend:
· Making it a free action: When you hit a target with a basic attack
· Making it only have one effect, but to be usable multiple times during an encounter (scaling with level)

Not a bad idea


Harrying Swing fixes/edits/suggestions:
· Attack: Primary Ability Score vs AC
· Striker: You deal extra damage equal to your Secondary Ability Score
· Defender: If the target makes an attack that does not include you as a target before the end of your next turn, you can make an immediate interrupt to give the target a -2 penalty to all defenses until the end of your next turn.

Defining a secondary ability score can be a bit difficult with the given system, and a -2 to all defenses seems more... controller/striker like than defending if you ask me.  Still, worth looking into


Magical Burst fixes/edits/suggestions/comments
·
No multitarget love?
· No love for ranged players?
· I love that controller rider!
· No love for martial strikers? You've trusted us with flavor so far, why not now? Just make it say "deals extra damage equal to your Secondary Ability Score" and let us decide the fluff.



Well... *points at "magical" portion of Magical Burst* but I do see your point.  As this is a sampling of the powers that can be mixed and matched for best effect, I'm still limiting my power creation for now to melee = weapon, ranged = magic.  Later on I'll be introducing ranged weapon powers and melee range/close burst or blast magic

Pummeling Smash:
· Is awesome

Pillar of Flame
Are these all powers you can choose from, or powers you get? 'cause if this is a mandatory power than I would hate to have my fluffed out frost mage to be throwing out giant columns of fire eevery encounter...

Point taken Made the appropriate changes


Other comments: 
for me this is a "make-it-your-self" class and theme kit. It has all the mechanics required and nothing extra, I can out the meat on the bones as I please. Class, themes and power sources is something the player should make up by himself. This is all targeted towards a RP oriented groups.

Keep up the good work, and give us something that hit multiple enemies!

There's already the Elemental Pillar of Flame and the Arcane Sphere, and I'll be working on dailies shortly

EDIT: Moved dailies to second post.
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57047238 wrote:
If you're crossing the street and see a city bus barreling straight toward you with 'GIVE ME YOUR WALLET!' painted across its windshield, you probably won't be reaching for your wallet.
I Don't Always Play Strikers...But When I Do, I Prefer Vampire Stay Thirsty, My Friends
This is what I believe is the spirit of D&D 4E, and my deal breaker for D&D Next: equal opportunities, with distinct specializations, in areas where conflict happens the most often, without having to worry about heavy micromanagement or system mastery. What I hope to be my most useful contributions to the D&D Community: DM Idea: Collaborative Mapping, Classless 4E (homebrew system, that hopefully helps in D&D Next development), Gamma World 7E random character generator (by yours truly), and the Concept of Perfect Imbalance (for D&D Next and other TRPGs in development) Pre-3E D&D should be recognized for what they were: simulation wargames where people could tell stories with The Best Answer to "Why 4E?" Fun vs. Engaging
Well, yo are giving each character two role benefits, that sounds like "two primary roles" to me...

How about this for a controller: 
Controller: Once per encounter you can make a ranged basic attack against all enemies in Area Burst 1 within 10 squares.
or
Controller: Once per encounter, when you deal damage to an enemy, you can choose to deal damage equal to your Primary Ability Score to one creature adjacent to the target.
or
Controller: Whenever you hit with a basic attack you can slide the target one square.
or
Controller: Whenever you hit with a basic attack the target grants combat advantage to *official phrasing for "next guy that attacks it"*

I agree, secondary ability score doesn't really work in 4e without a class to determine it for you...
That defender rider was a typo, it was meant to be a penalty to attack rolls. Either until the end of your next turn or just for the triggering attack.

Ranged Fix: Give the Striker this optional benefit:
Ranged Striker:
You can treat all powers with the range of "Melee Weapon" as having the range of "Ranged Weapon".

Just make sure to keep all striker triggers to be "basic attack" and not "basic melee attack" and you're good. People really like rangers you know (and this is very Dragonage-like rogue/ranger switcharoo)

Adrenaline Rush:
Woah, woah, woah! That controller rider is way out there! Not a good idea, if somone else from the forums reads this they'll cut your head off!
Defender: Whenever you successfully subject a creature to a mark you can choose to mark an additional creature adjacent to you.
or
Defender: When you hit with a basic attck you gain temporary hit points equal to your...
or
keep the attack bonus, you can't mark what you can't hit.

Magic Storm:
Check the list of damage types from the chaos sorcerer's list, that should be the list of damage type this power could potentially deal. Do we want to say that once you choose a damage type you can't change... No it's a daily, and if you don't know a creature's vulnerabilities you can't really use it to your advantage, it will be fun seeing people with this power desperatly trying to justify why his character know the vulnerabilities of an air elemental.

Leader: This is the most awesome rider I ever saw <3 <3 <3
Controllers: Enemies that start their turn in the zone are knocked prone.
This is gonna be a difficult one for martial controllers to reflavour...

 Sustain Standard is a bit excessive, but I won't know for sure without playtesting. I suggest you limit the times this power can be sustained in that way:
"You can only sustain the zone once in this manner" 

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg)

Look at my Playable Illithid, my Monster Generating excel file , my Lifestealer in progresss (Heroic tier almost complete!) , our Improved Orc, our Improving Kenku and our Improving Duergar
Also, take a look at my friend's Improved Minotaur, Gadren's amazing Arcane Archer and of course the Avatar Project
More links! Qube's Block Builder, Classless D&D and the characters I've created using the classless system.
In equipment, you forgot the mention that the shield gives a shield bonus to both AC and Reflex ;)

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg)

Look at my Playable Illithid, my Monster Generating excel file , my Lifestealer in progresss (Heroic tier almost complete!) , our Improved Orc, our Improving Kenku and our Improving Duergar
Also, take a look at my friend's Improved Minotaur, Gadren's amazing Arcane Archer and of course the Avatar Project
More links! Qube's Block Builder, Classless D&D and the characters I've created using the classless system.
Thanks for the shield bonus bit, updating that


Well, yo are giving each character two role benefits, that sounds like "two primary roles" to me...

Two role benefits? Ah you mean powers-wise I'm thinking that the ability to mix and match two benefits for each power makes it more versatile and powerful, although I suppose toning down the at-will to "you gain a benefit based on your primary or secondary role, but not both" would be appropriate.



How about this for a controller: 
Controller: Once per encounter you can make a ranged basic attack against all enemies in Area Burst 1 within 10 squares.
or
Controller: Once per encounter, when you deal damage to an enemy, you can choose to deal damage equal to your Primary Ability Score to one creature adjacent to the target.
or
Controller: Whenever you hit with a basic attack you can slide the target one square.
or
Controller: Whenever you hit with a basic attack the target grants combat advantage to *official phrasing for "next guy that attacks it"*

Area burst RBA for a controller? Seems more artillery if you ask me, which is a bit too much in striker territory (never really liked that Hunter's area burst as a controller function).

The third suggestion seems the most appealing to me and can make for a pretty good generic effect for a primary controller

I agree, secondary ability score doesn't really work in 4e without a class to determine it for you...
That defender rider was a typo, it was meant to be a penalty to attack rolls. Either until the end of your next turn or just for the triggering attack.

Fixed

Ranged Fix: Give the Striker this optional benefit:
Ranged Striker:
You can treat all powers with the range of "Melee Weapon" as having the range of "Ranged Weapon".

Just make sure to keep all striker triggers to be "basic attack" and not "basic melee attack" and you're good. People really like rangers you know (and this is very Dragonage-like rogue/ranger switcharoo)

I changed all the weapon attacks to Melee or Ranged weapons -- for those leaders ;) -- but restricted defenders to be more of melee (with exceptions ).

Adrenaline Rush:
Woah, woah, woah! That controller rider is way out there! Not a good idea, if somone else from the forums reads this they'll cut your head off!
Defender: Whenever you successfully subject a creature to a mark you can choose to mark an additional creature adjacent to you.
or
Defender: When you hit with a basic attck you gain temporary hit points equal to your...
or
keep the attack bonus, you can't mark what you can't hit.

Noted, fixing immediately



Magic Storm:
Check the list of damage types from the chaos sorcerer's list, that should be the list of damage type this power could potentially deal. Do we want to say that once you choose a damage type you can't change... No it's a daily, and if you don't know a creature's vulnerabilities you can't really use it to your advantage, it will be fun seeing people with this power desperatly trying to justify why his character know the vulnerabilities of an air elemental.

Leader: This is the most awesome rider I ever saw <3 3="" br="">Controllers: Enemies that start their turn in the zone are knocked prone.
This is gonna be a difficult one for martial controllers to reflavour...

 Sustain Standard is a bit excessive, but I won't know for sure without playtesting. I suggest you limit the times this power can be sustained in that way:
"You can only sustain the zone once in this manner" 

As much as I'd love to keep the Leader rider as is, I realize that it's a rider best suited for Epic tier, so instead I'm reducing it to damage resistance

By the way, I'm thinking that reflavoring that the "knocked prone" would be a Fear effect, which would explain how martial controllers can simply scare the enemies into cowering :D Not sure why we'd have an implement-using martial controller though, given how implement use is usually magic-oriented...
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57047238 wrote:
If you're crossing the street and see a city bus barreling straight toward you with 'GIVE ME YOUR WALLET!' painted across its windshield, you probably won't be reaching for your wallet.
I Don't Always Play Strikers...But When I Do, I Prefer Vampire Stay Thirsty, My Friends
This is what I believe is the spirit of D&D 4E, and my deal breaker for D&D Next: equal opportunities, with distinct specializations, in areas where conflict happens the most often, without having to worry about heavy micromanagement or system mastery. What I hope to be my most useful contributions to the D&D Community: DM Idea: Collaborative Mapping, Classless 4E (homebrew system, that hopefully helps in D&D Next development), Gamma World 7E random character generator (by yours truly), and the Concept of Perfect Imbalance (for D&D Next and other TRPGs in development) Pre-3E D&D should be recognized for what they were: simulation wargames where people could tell stories with The Best Answer to "Why 4E?" Fun vs. Engaging
This is fun!
This post will be a bit messy since I'm not as good as quoting as you are.

I agree on the first bit, but I was actually refering to... refering to.. something that isn't in your #1 post anymore so nevermind xD
I agree with what we have for the secondary role bit :D

Controllers are minion killers, just ask the invoker, the mage, the swarm druid and the hunter :D. Just nerf the damage "if you choose to do this each attack only deals damage equal to your Primary Ability Score"

The Defender does not have to be restricted to melee, but I think it's on the safe side. How do you plan on doing that (allowing everybody to use "basic attacks" but restrict defenders to "basic melee attacks")?. There is a ranged defender though (look up "The Harrier" on the homebrew forums).

The Leader rider was a bit much, but I was hoping you wouldn't notice since I'd probably play a defender/leader when me and my pals use this :P

Keep the implement bit, the only thing it'll really do is ensure the correct attack bonus for the attack.

Did you decide on how you would scale damage without enhancement bonuses?

I suggested using this with a group to a friend of mine. She said yes so we'll probably meet and create characters together around mid-desember. Hoping that we'll have everything ready by then :D

How are we going to handle utility powers? And should we make some generic feats to replace the traditional class-feats? 

Feat suggestions by role:

Striker:
flat +1/2/3 damage with CA.

Leader:
Increased healing done. There are mutiple ways to do this, we'll just have to pick one. Granting the target of your 2/encounter heal THP sounds pretty standard to me.
When you grant an ally an extra attack, that attack gains a +1/2/3 bonus to the attack roll.

Controller:
Don't play controllers... ever! So I have no idea what a "standard class feat" would be.

Defender
· Vengence feats (hits harder after an enemy negates a mark / hits a bloodied ally)
· Flat +1/2/3 to opportunity attack rolls.

Defender/Leader:
· Look at paladin feats.

Can we give additional benefits according to role at a certain level? I'm mainly thinking defender aura for defenders, but we can also find something for the other classes as well.

I'm off to bed now, make sure you have a big n' juice post for me to review tomorrow! :D 

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg)

Look at my Playable Illithid, my Monster Generating excel file , my Lifestealer in progresss (Heroic tier almost complete!) , our Improved Orc, our Improving Kenku and our Improving Duergar
Also, take a look at my friend's Improved Minotaur, Gadren's amazing Arcane Archer and of course the Avatar Project
More links! Qube's Block Builder, Classless D&D and the characters I've created using the classless system.
**** it, I LOVE defender aura. Can we have that as the defender's inital effect instead of the traditional fighter mark? Wizards seem to favor defender aura above combat challenge anyways since every new defender has it. If they can do it, so can we, right? :D

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg)

Look at my Playable Illithid, my Monster Generating excel file , my Lifestealer in progresss (Heroic tier almost complete!) , our Improved Orc, our Improving Kenku and our Improving Duergar
Also, take a look at my friend's Improved Minotaur, Gadren's amazing Arcane Archer and of course the Avatar Project
More links! Qube's Block Builder, Classless D&D and the characters I've created using the classless system.
This is fun!
This post will be a bit messy since I'm not as good as quoting as you are.

I agree on the first bit, but I was actually refering to... refering to.. something that isn't in your #1 post anymore so nevermind xD
I agree with what we have for the secondary role bit :D

Controllers are minion killers, just ask the invoker, the mage, the swarm druid and the hunter :D. Just nerf the damage "if you choose to do this each attack only deals damage equal to your Primary Ability Score"

The Defender does not have to be restricted to melee, but I think it's on the safe side. How do you plan on doing that (allowing everybody to use "basic attacks" but restrict defenders to "basic melee attacks")?. There is a ranged defender though (look up "The Harrier" on the homebrew forums).

The Leader rider was a bit much, but I was hoping you wouldn't notice since I'd probably play a defender/leader when me and my pals use this :P

All noted, see the changes made in the first and third post
Keep the implement bit, the only thing it'll really do is ensure the correct attack bonus for the attack.

Actually, since the attack formula is now 4 + Level + Proficiency (if weapon attack), the only reason why you'd need implements would be for feats and items that key off the thing, otherwise an implement could simply be refluffed ANYTHING -- ki focus, holy symbol, etc. -- and it'd work as is

Did you decide on how you would scale damage without enhancement bonuses?

Yup, damage scales primarily through half-level bonuses, along with some item bonuses [which I'll probably have to scale down to at most +2 to damage], and non-scaling feat bonuses [like limiting Weapon Focus to +1 feat bonus to damage].

I suggested using this with a group to a friend of mine. She said yes so we'll probably meet and create characters together around mid-desember. Hoping that we'll have everything ready by then :D

How are we going to handle utility powers? And should we make some generic feats to replace the traditional class-feats?

Thanks for the future playtest! Utility powers are virtually by role; as a shortcut if we don't have time to make our own powers, we'll just allow for now the utilities from all classes of each role (e.g. Defender primary / Leader secondary would get powers from Fighters, Clerics, Paladins, etc.), although I'm thinking that utility powers could simply be more ability-centric (so Strength utilities would help with Strength checks and athletic abilities, Constitution utilities would help with Constitution checks and endurance-related abilities, etc.), then maybe have the skills as keywords so that if the DM opts to remove or utilize skills, you'd automatically have utilities that benefit from your training and vice versa

Feat suggestions by role:

Striker:
flat +1/2/3 damage with CA.

Here are a couple of striker feat ideas:

Brutal Strike
Prerequisite
: Striker Role
Benefit: You gain a +1 feat bonus to damage rolls.
Additional Benefit (Primary Striker only): Your striker feature deals d8 damage instead of d6.

Swift Strike
Prerequisite
: Striker role
Benefit: When you spend an action point, you gain combat advantage against one of the targets of your attack.
Additional Benefit (Primary Striker only): When you spend an action point, you can use your Sneaky Surprise power again, even if you have already used it during this turn.


Leader:
Increased healing done. There are mutiple ways to do this, we'll just have to pick one. Granting the target of your 2/encounter heal THP sounds pretty standard to me.
When you grant an ally an extra attack, that attack gains a +1/2/3 bonus to the attack roll.


I already merged that 1st suggestion into the leader/defender role Here are my ideas...

Living Inspiration
Prerequisite
: Leader role
Benefit: Whenever you succeed on a saving throw, allies within 5 squares of you gain a feat bonus to their saving throw equal to your primary ability modifier.
Additional Benefit (Primary Leader only): You gain an additional use of your Life-Giving Word.


Controller:
Don't play controllers... ever! So I have no idea what a "standard class feat" would be.



Controller's Rebuke
Prerequisite
: Controller role
Benefit: Once per encounter as a free action, you can slide an enemy within 5 squares of you up to three squares.
Additional Benefit (Primary Controller only): You gain an additional use of your Control Zone.


Defender
· Vengence feats (hits harder after an enemy negates a mark / hits a bloodied ally)
· Flat +1/2/3 to opportunity attack rolls.

Distraction's Folly
Prerequisite
: Defender role
Benefit: You gain a +2 feat bonus to opportunity attack rolls.  This bonus increases to +5 if the triggering enemy was either marked by you or is under the effect of Defender's Aura.
Additional Benefit (Primary Defender only): Your Defender's Aura becomes aura 2 instead of aura 1.


Can we give additional benefits according to role at a certain level? I'm mainly thinking defender aura for defenders, but we can also find something for the other classes as well.


There's certainly room for that, although right now I'm probably going to focus on developing the first few levels (likely levels 1-3 at most); after all, I'm doing this by myself, and between On-the-Job-Training, Do-It-Yourself Chainmail Weaving, DMing 4E every weekend and my personal life, I'm not sure if I can really go so far on the actual game development But who knows, maybe we'll get to mid-paragon on this ;)
 

**** it, I LOVE defender aura. Can we have that as the defender's inital effect instead of the traditional fighter mark? Wizards seem to favor defender aura above combat challenge anyways since every new defender has it. If they can do it, so can we, right? :D


Well, it does help with the defender scenario, and less micromanagement too, so why not?
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57047238 wrote:
If you're crossing the street and see a city bus barreling straight toward you with 'GIVE ME YOUR WALLET!' painted across its windshield, you probably won't be reaching for your wallet.
I Don't Always Play Strikers...But When I Do, I Prefer Vampire Stay Thirsty, My Friends
This is what I believe is the spirit of D&D 4E, and my deal breaker for D&D Next: equal opportunities, with distinct specializations, in areas where conflict happens the most often, without having to worry about heavy micromanagement or system mastery. What I hope to be my most useful contributions to the D&D Community: DM Idea: Collaborative Mapping, Classless 4E (homebrew system, that hopefully helps in D&D Next development), Gamma World 7E random character generator (by yours truly), and the Concept of Perfect Imbalance (for D&D Next and other TRPGs in development) Pre-3E D&D should be recognized for what they were: simulation wargames where people could tell stories with The Best Answer to "Why 4E?" Fun vs. Engaging
Commenting on your stuff is tricky, since there is no color coding or nothing to stuff that has just been updated. I'll scroll up and read the whole thing just in case I'm missing something xD

Okey, I'm loving this!

I love the feats and how you set them up. I also love the secondary role rideres on the primary role benefits.
Cause of these features/utilities/powers there is no need to give the roles something extra around mid-heroic tier, they'll be performing just fine without it.

Defender Aura:
· I don't know if allowing one to extend his defender's aura, try to see if that's even an option in official 4e. If we don't find anything I think we shouldn't make it an option until in Paragon.
· Please fix the wording for Defender Aura, we are using a power that has already been made, the least we could do is do it right. Go to the online compendium and find the official phrasing for this feature plox.
· Leader: After the enemy's attack has been resolved, you can choose to grant one target of the enemy's attack temporary hit points equal to your Primary Abillity Score modifier as a free action.
· Striker: After the enemy's attack has been resolved, you can choose to deal damage equal to your Primary Ability Score modifier to that enemy.

Sneaky Surprise:
· Don't know why it's leadery to shift, but shifting is never a bad thing so unless you have something more traditional I'm not complaining.

Controller Zone
· I love this zone, but making it a free action is a bit shaky... But you tell me.

Word of Life
· This is a minor action, no questions asked.

Harrying Swing:
· Due to recent updates, the appropriate Leader rider would be to grant an ally an extra attack.
· There is a wording problem with some of this stuff. Remember to talk from the doer's point of view:
· Defender: If the target maes an attack before the end of your next turn that does not include you as a target you can, as an opportunity action, give that target a -2 penalty to the triggering attack roll.
· Striker: YOU deal extra damage equal to your Primary Ability Score modifier

Magical Burst:
· We must remember that Magical Burst is not a ranged basic attack, so everything that triggers of "You hit with a basic attack" does not work with Magical Burst... That is unless you add the line "Special: This power can be used as a ranged basic attack"
· The Controller rider on Magical Burst is too strong (just noticed that it's an at-will power!)
· What is the damage type of this power? "Variable" sounds nice, but I recommend giving a list.

Trigger: You hit with a basic attack:
· The attacks that have this trigger should have no target line, be a free action, and use the same wording as the Hunter's at-will powers. Please make sure of this.


 Pummeling w/e:
· Leader: "before, during or after the push"
· Controller: Remember, "YOU knock the target prone"
· Defender: If the target maes an attack that does not include you (same wording as Combat Challenge) you can, as an immediate interrupt, shift 2 squares...
· Striker: You deal 2[W] extra damage.

Elemental Pillar 
·
What's wrong with a pillar of radiance? or force? or psychic (migraine) energy?
· Leader: Each ally in the burst regains hit points equal to your PAS modifer. I an ally is bloodied after regaining hit points they can use a free action to spend a healing surge to gain temporary hit points equal to their healing surge value.

If you could bust some of these things into spoiler boxes that would be great :D

[spoi ler]
-text-
[/spoi ler]

An idea for a power: Prophetic Guidance (cleric). It deals no or minimum damage, but the target grants combat advantage and the next creature to attack it can reroll its attack roll if it misses :D

General Stuff:

Skills: So instead of scaling it "+1/2 level" and trained(+5) you chose to make it scale "+ level" and trained (+3/4/5). Why do you do this?
Initative: Since we have access to feats, is there a reason for the "+ level" scaling?
Speed: Speed is determined by race, not class (or classlessness) so this line is not needed.

I think I got everything, if not I'll comment on it sooner or later xD. Keep up the good work!

Utility Power Ideas that you can than take and make hundred times better like every idea I've thrown your way so far:

Defender:

Kirre's Roar (mark multiple enemies and gain THP)
Switch positions with an ally
Striker:
Move action, must be hidden, you remain hidden for x duration (check executioner utility powers)
Mobility is nice, look at ranger utility powers
Controller:
Difficult terrain generator, either center one a square (burst 1) or an ally (burst 1)
Leader:
Target: One adjacent, dying ally. Effect: Saving throw + healing surge spendage
Grant saving throw to one or more allies.

Utilities with the Prerequisite: Must have Magical Burst or Pillar of *sound effect of destruction*
· Basically all magic and arcane related powers (invoker, cleric, mage, mage and mage)
 

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After reading your initial post, Chaosfang, i went and started messing around myself.  Most powers i came up with were 'trigger:  you hit with a basic attack' type stuff.   Encounter powers were more E-style, like the Blackguard's Dread Smite.  more of class-feature-ish stuff that you can tack on to basic attacks, and get more uses of at 3,7,11 etc.   i'll attempt to clean some of it up and throw it in the mix here shortly.

Having a basic attack along with an effect, plus a role-based effect seems a like it may be a bit overpowered to me. 

Leader needs an at-will saving throw granter like Righteous Brand or whatever it is:

Leader power rider.
Trigger:  You hit with a basic attack.
Effect:  One ally within __ squares can make a saving throw.

Didn't see one, but the Defender ought to have a 'Cleave' type rider.  hit with an attack, deal primary ability mod damage to adjacent enemy.

good work all around, i'm diggin' it.

Cry Havoc!  And let slip the hogs of war!

Thanks both of you I'll be working on the 1st and third post likely during the weekends, will add color coding to changes made

Regarding the Defender's Aura riders, they're basically codifications of the punishment mechanic (for leader-y defenders e.g. Hospitaler PP, they'd make it tougher to kill allies, for striker-y defenders it's free damage [still debating between opportunity attack triggering, immediate action attack/etc. or what not], etc. ).

Haven't considered cleave in the single-target Harrying Swing as it'd be a more single-target focused power; I'm thinking of a more anti-group at-will would be appropriate (named Cleave, appropriately ).  Maybe the leader rider would cause the target and enemies adjacent to you or the target to grant combat advantage to allies, the striker rider would do extra damage to each enemy adjacent to you, the defender rider would knock the target and each enemy adjacent to you prone, and the controller rider would slide each enemy adjacent to you.
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57047238 wrote:
If you're crossing the street and see a city bus barreling straight toward you with 'GIVE ME YOUR WALLET!' painted across its windshield, you probably won't be reaching for your wallet.
I Don't Always Play Strikers...But When I Do, I Prefer Vampire Stay Thirsty, My Friends
This is what I believe is the spirit of D&D 4E, and my deal breaker for D&D Next: equal opportunities, with distinct specializations, in areas where conflict happens the most often, without having to worry about heavy micromanagement or system mastery. What I hope to be my most useful contributions to the D&D Community: DM Idea: Collaborative Mapping, Classless 4E (homebrew system, that hopefully helps in D&D Next development), Gamma World 7E random character generator (by yours truly), and the Concept of Perfect Imbalance (for D&D Next and other TRPGs in development) Pre-3E D&D should be recognized for what they were: simulation wargames where people could tell stories with The Best Answer to "Why 4E?" Fun vs. Engaging
Made a significant overhaul on the powers in particular, should be interesting Added 2 new powers: Lesser Cleave (at-will), Spectral Summon (encounter). I'll still have to check out the utilities suggestions again  
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57047238 wrote:
If you're crossing the street and see a city bus barreling straight toward you with 'GIVE ME YOUR WALLET!' painted across its windshield, you probably won't be reaching for your wallet.
I Don't Always Play Strikers...But When I Do, I Prefer Vampire Stay Thirsty, My Friends
This is what I believe is the spirit of D&D 4E, and my deal breaker for D&D Next: equal opportunities, with distinct specializations, in areas where conflict happens the most often, without having to worry about heavy micromanagement or system mastery. What I hope to be my most useful contributions to the D&D Community: DM Idea: Collaborative Mapping, Classless 4E (homebrew system, that hopefully helps in D&D Next development), Gamma World 7E random character generator (by yours truly), and the Concept of Perfect Imbalance (for D&D Next and other TRPGs in development) Pre-3E D&D should be recognized for what they were: simulation wargames where people could tell stories with The Best Answer to "Why 4E?" Fun vs. Engaging
Here comes my reply, messy as always:


 From the top these are the fixes I can make:

"You may knock the target prone"
"You may slide the target 3 squares"

Why is Lesser Cleave not triggered on a basic attack?

I would like Spectral Summon, if didn't limmit the classlessness' usefulness (hahaha, try saying that five times fast in a row!)

I want to keep these classlesses printed out in my packpack, along with a few dice. Then whenever somone wants to roleplay I can just whip this out and we can play within 20 minutes, whether they've done it before or not. I'm already going to have to explain OAs, shifting, actions and the action pyramid, and I really don't want to explain conjurations on top of all that. I'm not gonna ban this power outright 'cause of my personal needs, but I'd like to have an officially approved alternative, so I can then just not have this power available to the noobs.

Controller: Your enemies treat each square adjacent to your conjuration as difficult terrain
Defender, you should've learned this by now. This is the wording you are always going to use: If an enemy adjacent to the conjuration shifts or makes an attack and does not include you or an ally with an active defender aura as a target you can make an attack vs. Reflex against it as an immediate interrupt. On hit the target is pushed 1 square and knocked prone.
Striker: The moment the conjuration appears you can use an at-will power against an enemy adjacent to it as a free action... no wait, that doesn't work... Erm... Each enemy that starts its turn adjacent to the conjuration takes damage equal to your primary ability score.

 Adrenaline Rush:
"Defender Aura" not "Defender's Aura"
 
Magic Storm:
I like the d10 bit, it's a nice touch.
Defender, fix the wording. You should know the proper wording by now.

I don't like it that you can sustain it indefinetly, since that means that as soon as the controller pops this power the whole party will, they'll completely annhialite any BBEG.

You can now uncolor and erase all fixes, since they have been reviewed. Remember to color the next batch of fixes though! :D 

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Neutered the Magical Storm, tweaked the whole thing as suggested
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57047238 wrote:
If you're crossing the street and see a city bus barreling straight toward you with 'GIVE ME YOUR WALLET!' painted across its windshield, you probably won't be reaching for your wallet.
I Don't Always Play Strikers...But When I Do, I Prefer Vampire Stay Thirsty, My Friends
This is what I believe is the spirit of D&D 4E, and my deal breaker for D&D Next: equal opportunities, with distinct specializations, in areas where conflict happens the most often, without having to worry about heavy micromanagement or system mastery. What I hope to be my most useful contributions to the D&D Community: DM Idea: Collaborative Mapping, Classless 4E (homebrew system, that hopefully helps in D&D Next development), Gamma World 7E random character generator (by yours truly), and the Concept of Perfect Imbalance (for D&D Next and other TRPGs in development) Pre-3E D&D should be recognized for what they were: simulation wargames where people could tell stories with The Best Answer to "Why 4E?" Fun vs. Engaging
I'll run this whole thing by a friend of mine, he might notice something we don't.

Please take out all the blue stuff, 'cause I have a feeling there's a lot more blue to be added ;) 

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I've added two utility powers, and tweaked up a few powers to make them more viable for paragon and epic tier play I was consdering a third utility power, but I'm considering keeping it open for fluffiness, so just like how tricky it'd be to have the Spectral Summon as a martial class, it'd be tricky as to how to make a martial class that'd have area utility powers.

Likely I'll be making utility powers similar to the Skill Powers, except I may add the skills as keywords instead.  Maybe something like:

Recalled Lore | Level 2 Utility
Encounter * History
Free Action | Personal
Trigger
: You make a knowledge check that uses an ability other than Intelligence.
Effect: You make an Intelligence check instead.



Then have skills rules text as such:

Skills are an optional feature that allow you to specialize in a field; for instance, someone who might not be innately strong but is trained in the proper use of his body might be able to climb walls just as expertly.  When utilizing this feature, powers whose keywords include a skill can benefit from the bonuses you have for that skill.  For example, Recalled Lore has the History keyword, which means that the Intelligence check you make with the power gains all the bonuses you have for the History skill.

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57047238 wrote:
If you're crossing the street and see a city bus barreling straight toward you with 'GIVE ME YOUR WALLET!' painted across its windshield, you probably won't be reaching for your wallet.
I Don't Always Play Strikers...But When I Do, I Prefer Vampire Stay Thirsty, My Friends
This is what I believe is the spirit of D&D 4E, and my deal breaker for D&D Next: equal opportunities, with distinct specializations, in areas where conflict happens the most often, without having to worry about heavy micromanagement or system mastery. What I hope to be my most useful contributions to the D&D Community: DM Idea: Collaborative Mapping, Classless 4E (homebrew system, that hopefully helps in D&D Next development), Gamma World 7E random character generator (by yours truly), and the Concept of Perfect Imbalance (for D&D Next and other TRPGs in development) Pre-3E D&D should be recognized for what they were: simulation wargames where people could tell stories with The Best Answer to "Why 4E?" Fun vs. Engaging
Now I'm finally gonna do it, I'm gonna try to make a few characters from this. Going this step-by-step from A to Z should give me a clear eye on what's iffy and what works/doesn't work.

Stand by for my report.
My first character will be a suggestion from a friend of mine:  Controller/Striker

· The first thing I notice is that if a character want to play a single role (no secondary role) it loses a lot of features. I think we should conside adding a "secondary role: striker" to the striker features and "secondary role: defender" on the defender features etc (don't make it as powerful as the other ones thou, I don't think we should endorce min-maxing ;)... actually, make them rather weak compared to the other riders)
· Under ability scores, include the standard array and "You gain +1 to two ability scores of your choice at levels 4, 8 etc, and +1 to all ability scores at levels 11 and 21 etc..." This makes making characters on the spot a lot easier ^^
· Reflex Defense: 10 + your level + the better of your Dexterity or Intelligence modifiers + shield bonus (1 for light shields, 2 for heavy shields) 
· Maybe add lines explaining Basic Melee and Basic Ranged attacks under "powers".
· So ability scores only contribute towards skills, defenses, initative and feat prerequisites? Actually.. that doesn't sound too bad...
· Maybe we should add a basic feat list, such as improved initative, improved defenses, improved hit, improved damage, improved range, improved speed, skill focus, skill training etc. Again, I, with my selfish needs, want to be able to walk around with this, dice, map and character sheets and that will be all I need to teach a group how to play from scratch :D
· Can ranged basic attacks not be magical?
· We need the "if your class is magical, or deals damage other than physical damage you gain one additional basic attack, either ranged or melee, including the implement keyword, and has a magic keyword and damage type from the list below (DMs discretion). The damage type must be in context with your character (DM discretion). We need to do this since making Magical Burst a ranged basic attack is just a disaster waiting to happen xD
· If we do that, would those with magic powers still have the same melee abilities? I suggest a -2 to attack and damage rolls with powers that have the weapon keyword.
· What about close burst/area damaging powers (think dragon sorcerer)?

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I like the skill bit, it gives me a reason to train is a certain skill. The more things that key of having trainin in certain skills the more flavourful the classlessness will be in the end. For example stealthy utility powers that require training in stealth etc.  (I'm thinking: Prereq: You must be hidden. Move action: You remain hidden during the movement. or Move action: You become invisible/gain total concealment until the end of the move).

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Can you say, wall of text?

Actually, I'd like to comment on the skill bit.
I know for a fact that attack bonuses and defenses scale differently for monsters and player characteres. This is because player characters can up their bonuses with magic items, feats and class features, wheras monsters (usually) have none of these things.
Skills however and not increased with magic items, so why have them scale with level and not half-level?

· I say we make skills scale like traditional 4e: Ability score modifier + half level + race bonuses + background bonuses + training (+5) if any.

----

Please update the Defender Aura to match the official power.
The defender aura always comes paired with a "punishment feature". The riders you put under the Defender aura would translate to 4 different measures of punishment. 

Striker: free action damage or extra damage on OA (á la Cavalier or berserker)
Controller: OA with penalties to attack rolls on hit (until end of his next turn)
Leader: OA and ally adjacent to the target gains THP (hit or miss)
Defender: +1 to hit with the attack, and hit negates movement (if any)

----

You should only gain 1 encounter power at level 1 lol
"and replace one of your known encounter attack powers..."

----

About magic users:

I say that magic users pick two damage types that become their "chosen damage types". Each magical class picks a Primary and Secondary chosen damage type from the list below:

Lightning
Thunder
Poison
Acid
Radiance
Force
Psychic
Fire
Cold
Untyped (if the magic is basically throwing around daggers with his mind)
Necrotic
(if I forgot something, add it to the list. It is supposed to be complete)

Then you can use phrases like "The target and each creature adjacent to it takes damage equal to your Primary Ability Score modifier of your Primary chosen damage type" or " Primary or Secondary chosen damage type"

And then at level x magic users gain the following feature:
"When you deal damage of the same type as your Primary chosen damage type you can choose to instead deal damage of your Secondary chosen damage type."
and/or
"When you deal damage with an attack for which you can choose whether to deal damage to either of your chosen damage types, you can choose to deal both types of damage instead.

-----

Harryng Assault:
Defender: add the "before the end of the encounter" time limit

Magical Burst:
Controller: This is an at-will power. We need to scale it down a bit. How many damaging AoE attacks do we have so far?
 

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Love it! Like I mentioned in the "Hybrid 3.5E/4E: Power Sources as Differentiators" thread, I had ago at something like this a while back, but my system was far more complex than this.

I do think this system could easily be combined with my power source system, which assigns particular class features based on your power source. Basically, each power source would grant you the equivalent of two feats from a couple of set lists:

Arcane: Arcane Lore (Implement Expertise would be an example of this), Cantrips
Divine: Channel Divinity, Divine Devotion (as in the category of feats introduced in HotFL and HotFK)
Martial: Martial Talent x2 (armor and weapon training)
Primal: Wilderness Knacks, Primal Soul (the category of feats introduced in HotFK)
Psionic: Telepathy, Wild Talents (ala the Dark Sun Campaign Setting)
This is actually perfect, since right now the only problem I have with the general idea of this thread is power sources and magic classlessness. I had the feeling there was something off, but didn't realize it was Power Sources until you mentioned it!
Having you pick a Power Source at character creation sounds perfect. Assigning them to feats might be making what we are aiming for to be REALLY simple more complicated, but the idea is REALLY good.

Remember that in this there are no armors or weapons other than light/heavy and everybody's proficient with everything.
Most of these feats (wilderness knacks, wild talents, cannel divinity, cantrips) only means more stuff to choose, which is what we are trying to avoid, essentially. But if we simplify your idea... let's see...

"Based on your flavour, pick one power source from the list below. You gain a benefit based on your power source. You are allowed to choose multiple power sources (such as Arcane/Martial) but you can only gain the benefits of one."

Arcane
Divine
Martial
Primal
Psionic
Shadow

Arcane Benefit: three pre-chosen cantrips.
Divine: Some leader-ish feature like Divine Mettle, whatever it is it is gonna be pre-chosen.
Martial: Once per encounter you can use a move action to shift your speed.
Primal: I don't know what Primal Soul is, but a couple of pre-chosen wilderness knacks sounds fun (although a bit underwhelming) :D
Psionic: Telepathy 5, one or two pre-chosen wild talents.
Shadow: I don't know enough about the shadow power to come up with anything symbolic enough... 

How does this sound?

What I really love about this is that I can bascially imagine anything I want, and assign it to one of these "builds". Try it! :D Think of any video game or any TV character you know, and make a classless PC out of it. It almost always works! The only thing missing are the character-specific attack powers, but we are trying to keep the powers generic enough so they fit to any idea you might have. The only thing missing, i think, is the Twin Strike, some close bursts and maybe a "shift 2 squares before the attack" type power and we are golden :D
 

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Remember that in this there are no armors or weapons other than light/heavy and everybody's proficient with everything.
Most of these feats (wilderness knacks, wild talents, cannel divinity, cantrips) only means more stuff to choose, which is what we are trying to avoid, essentially.



Armor training and weapon training would be generic benefits not associated with particular armor or weapon. For example, I don't know if the generic "heavy armor" would still impose skill check or speed penalties, but if so martial characters would have an an option to lessen/remove those penalties. Another possibility would be an adaption of the PH1 ranger's Two-Blade Fighting Style, e.g. something like "You can use a heavy one-handed weapon in your off-hand as though it were a light one-handed weapon".

Perhaps I've missed something, but I don't see anything above about a lack of options being one of the goals?

Primal: I don't know what Primal Soul is, but a couple of pre-chosen wilderness knacks sounds fun (although a bit underwhelming) :D



Primal Soul is a category of feats introduced in Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms. There are actually only three in HotFK (Stoneroot's Endurance, Stormhawk's Vengeance, and World Serpsent's Grasp), but I've homebrewed several more for most of the major primal spirits mentioned in Primal Power; I'll post them on the forum sometime soon.

HotFK also has a handful of Wilderness Lore feats (Cunning Stalker, Hidden Sniper, Wasteland Wanderer, Wilderness Skirmisher). I didn't go with those as  they're similar to wilderness knacks, but somewhat more beneficial due to being feats.


Anyway, I've adapted one of my own leader features and some feats with this power as a prerequisite into this system:


Leader Aura | Role Utility
Encounter * Aura
Immediate Interrupt        Personal
Trigger: You roll initiative
Effect: You activate an aura 5 that lasts until the end of the encounter. If the aura ends prematurely for any reason, you can reactivate it during the encounter as a minor action.
    Each ally in the aura gains a +2 power bonus to initiative.
    Controller: Each time you hit an enemy in the aura with a basic attack, that enemy cannot take opportunity actions until the end of your next turn.
    Defender: Each time you hit an enemy with a basic attack, one of your allies in the aura gains a +1 power bonus to all defenses until the end of your next turn.
    Striker: Each time you hit an enemy with a basic attack, one of your allies in the aura gains a +2 power bonus to damage rolls until the end of your next turn.



Healing Aura
Prequisite: Primary leader role, leader aura power, life-giving word power
Benefit: Any ally in your leader aura can use a minor action to trigger your life-giving word, targetting either themself or ally adjacent to them.

Inspiring Aura
Prerequisite: Primary leader role, leader aura power
Benefit: At the end of each short rest, choose two skills you have training in. Each ally in your leader aura gains a +2 bonus to those two skills.

Tactical Aura
Prerequisite: Primary leader role, leader aura power
Benefit: When you spend an action point, you can forgo gaining the normal benefits to instead allow one ally in your leader aura to take a standard action as a free action.


The next feat grants different benefits depending on your power source:

Improved Combat Aura
Prerequisite: Primary leader role, leader aura power
Benefit: The size of your leader aura is 10 instead of 5. In addition, you gain one of the following benefits depending on your power source:
    Arcane: Once per round when an ally in the aura hits an enemy with an attack, you can choose for any damage dealt by that attack to be acid, cold, fire, lightning, or thunder damage.
    Divine: Once per round when an enemy in the aura hits an ally with an attack, you can push that enemy 1 square as a free action.
    Martial: Once per round when an enemy in the aura hits an ally with an attack, you gain a +2 power bonus to damage rolls against that enemy until the end of your next turn.
    Primal: Once per round, when an ally in the aura hits an enemy with an attack, that ally gains temporary hit points equal to your primary ability modifier.
    Psionic: Once per round, when an ally in the aura hits an enemy with an attack, that enemy takes a -2 penalty to all defenses until the end of your next turn.
    Shadow: Once per round, when an enemy targets an ally in the aura with an attack, that enemy takes a -1 penalty to attack rolls until the end of your next turn.


(Thinking about it, the arcane benefit would be better suited as an elemental benefit; I'll make this change and add a new arcane benefit later .

The first thing I notice is that if a character want to play a single role (no secondary role) it loses a lot of features. I think we should conside adding a "secondary role: striker" to the striker features and "secondary role: defender" on the defender features etc (don't make it as powerful as the other ones thou, I don't think we should endorce min-maxing ;)... actually, make them rather weak compared to the other riders)

Hmm, single roles instead of dual roles?  Not a bad idea, although it really does lose a lot of features especially since encounter and daily powers would tend to utilize both roles, so the lack of a different secondary role means you're gimping yourself.  Will consider it.
· Under ability scores, include the standard array and "You gain +1 to two ability scores of your choice at levels 4, 8 etc, and +1 to all ability scores at levels 11 and 21 etc..." This makes making characters on the spot a lot easier ^^
· Reflex Defense: 10 + your level + the better of your Dexterity or Intelligence modifiers + shield bonus (1 for light shields, 2 for heavy shields) 

Ah, a clarification on the Reflex Defense portion? Got it
Maybe add lines explaining Basic Melee and Basic Ranged attacks under "powers".


In other words, a box that explicitly has these two basic attacks? Alright.
Maybe we should add a basic feat list, such as improved initative, improved defenses, improved hit, improved damage, improved range, improved speed, skill focus, skill training etc. Again, I, with my selfish needs, want to be able to walk around with this, dice, map and character sheets and that will be all I need to teach a group how to play from scratch :D

Noted for future addition.  In the meantime, a slight tweak to the PHB feats (including errata) should suffice
Can ranged basic attacks not be magical?

They never were In fact, the updates to the at-wills explicitly take ranged basic attacks into consideration.
We need the "if your class is magical, or deals damage other than physical damage you gain one additional basic attack, either ranged or melee, including the implement keyword, and has a magic keyword and damage type from the list below (DMs discretion). The damage type must be in context with your character (DM discretion). We need to do this since making Magical Burst a ranged basic attack is just a disaster waiting to happen xD

I never made Magical Burst a ranged basic attack, as it could easily have a player pick both a power that triggers off basic attacks and Magical Burst for unintended stacking.
· If we do that, would those with magic powers still have the same melee abilities? I suggest a -2 to attack and damage rolls with powers that have the weapon keyword.
· What about close burst/area damaging powers (think dragon sorcerer)?

I'd like to keep things simple at the moment: weapon users trigger additional stuff with their basic attacks; implement users would likely not have any basic attacks, or if they would are certainly going to be restricted damage-wise, but in either case they are more condition-oriented [stun, dominate, daze, etc. ], similar to how 4E is formatted.

Note that I'm only one person reshaping an entire system that took years to develop, and is still in development, plus to top it all off I'm not able to dedicate that much time on it as of late as I mentioned (although to be fair this is giving me quite the mental exercise, well beyond what I thought of doing as a past time ).


I like the skill bit, it gives me a reason to train is a certain skill. The more things that key of having trainin in certain skills the more flavourful the classlessness will be in the end. For example stealthy utility powers that require training in stealth etc.  (I'm thinking: Prereq: You must be hidden. Move action: You remain hidden during the movement. or Move action: You become invisible/gain total concealment until the end of the move).

I'm not so keen on the "requires training in stealth" bit, but more of "you benefit a lot more if you had training in stealth".  Reason: note how I've mentioned in my post with Recalled Lore, that skills would be optional but beneficial"?  I'm thinking that, if ever a DM removes skills and utilizes ability checks only, these powers could still be accessed, and they still get the rudimentary benefits, except they don't get to utilize their skill's bonuses.

So with your power suggestion, it'd be more like:

Skillful Evasion | Daily Utility 2
At the last moment, you barely avoid detection.
Encounter * Stealth
Immediate Interrupt * Personal
Trigger
: An enemy's Wisdom or Insight check is greater than your Dexterity or Stealth check to become hidden.
Target: The triggering enemy
Effect: The target makes another Wisdom or Insight check, with a penalty equal to your Dexterity modifier, and must take the second result, even if it is lower.
- - - - -
Gullible Distraction | Encounter Utility 2

"Look! Over there!"
[b]Encounter
Minor Action * Personal
Effect: You use Hiding Distraction as a free action.

- - - - -
Hiding Distraction | Encounter Utility
You create a diversion to hide from your enemies.
Encounter * Bluff
Standard Action * Personal
Effect
: Make a Charisma check against Will defense of each enemy that can see you, with a -5 penalty if the target is unfriendly to you, or a -10 penalty instead if the target is hostile to you.  If you succeed you can make a secondary check, which has the Stealth keyword instead of Bluff:
-> Target: Each enemy who can see you
-> Check: Dexterity versus Wisdom or Insight
-> Success: You are hidden from the target until the end of your turn or until you attack.

Can you say, wall of text?

Actually, I'd like to comment on the skill bit. 
I know for a fact that attack bonuses and defenses scale differently for monsters and player characteres. This is because player characters can up their bonuses with magic items, feats and class features, wheras monsters (usually) have none of these things.
Skills however and not increased with magic items, so why have them scale with level and not half-level?

· I say we make skills scale like traditional 4e: Ability score modifier + half level + race bonuses + background bonuses + training (+5) if any.

Actually, the attack bonuses and defenses for this system scale exactly the same for monsters and player characters -- remember, we removed how magic items, class features, and to a certain extent feats, affect accuracy -- although with regards to skills I suppose we should revert it to how 4E utilizes it right now, at least because I don't want to go through the daunting task of trying to figure out how to redo the DC tables and such.

Please update the Defender Aura to match the official power.
The defender aura always comes paired with a "punishment feature". The riders you put under the Defender aura would translate to 4 different measures of punishment. 

Striker: free action damage or extra damage on OA (á la Cavalier or berserker)
Controller: OA with penalties to attack rolls on hit (until end of his next turn)
Leader: OA and ally adjacent to the target gains THP (hit or miss)
Defender: +1 to hit with the attack, and hit negates movement (if any) 

Noted, although I may have to double-check on that last portion, given how it actually makes a pure defender slightly better than the "regular" builds (see: why 4E Fighters are considered top-notch defenders).

You should only gain 1 encounter power at level 1 lol
"and replace one of your known encounter attack powers..." 

Thanks for noticing that, will fix when I get to do the heavy editing.

About magic users:

I say that magic users pick two damage types that become their "chosen damage types". Each magical class picks a Primary and Secondary chosen damage type from the list

[ Snipped ]

Then you can use phrases like "The target and each creature adjacent to it takes damage equal to your Primary Ability Score modifier of your Primary chosen damage type" or " Primary or Secondary chosen damage type"

And then at level x magic users gain the following feature:
"When you deal damage of the same type as your Primary chosen damage type you can choose to instead deal damage of your Secondary chosen damage type."
and/or
"When you deal damage with an attack for which you can choose whether to deal damage to either of your chosen damage types, you can choose to deal both types of damage instead.

Hmm, not a bad idea, as it removes the need for me to re-write each and every portion.  However, I'm going to remove the "magic user only" and make it an overall concept as part of character creation, something like:

Elemental Affinity: Choose up to four damage types. Whenever you pick a power that has the implement keyword, you can choose to change the power's damage type to one of the damage types you have selected.
Special: The first time this has been determined in your character's life, you can only have it changed when you spend a retrain slot to do so.

Then remove all implement powers' texts pertaining to damage type alteration. 

Harryng Assault:
Defender: add the "before the end of the encounter" time limit

Magical Burst:
Controller: This is an at-will power. We need to scale it down a bit. How many damaging AoE attacks do we have so far? 

We have 1 encounter and 1 daily that's AoE.  I suppose the slide could be toned down to 1 square.
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57047238 wrote:
If you're crossing the street and see a city bus barreling straight toward you with 'GIVE ME YOUR WALLET!' painted across its windshield, you probably won't be reaching for your wallet.
I Don't Always Play Strikers...But When I Do, I Prefer Vampire Stay Thirsty, My Friends
This is what I believe is the spirit of D&D 4E, and my deal breaker for D&D Next: equal opportunities, with distinct specializations, in areas where conflict happens the most often, without having to worry about heavy micromanagement or system mastery. What I hope to be my most useful contributions to the D&D Community: DM Idea: Collaborative Mapping, Classless 4E (homebrew system, that hopefully helps in D&D Next development), Gamma World 7E random character generator (by yours truly), and the Concept of Perfect Imbalance (for D&D Next and other TRPGs in development) Pre-3E D&D should be recognized for what they were: simulation wargames where people could tell stories with The Best Answer to "Why 4E?" Fun vs. Engaging
Fixed Defender Aura, Harrying Assault, Magical Burst, and added Foe's Folly.  Will edit the rest of the first page eventually
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57047238 wrote:
If you're crossing the street and see a city bus barreling straight toward you with 'GIVE ME YOUR WALLET!' painted across its windshield, you probably won't be reaching for your wallet.
I Don't Always Play Strikers...But When I Do, I Prefer Vampire Stay Thirsty, My Friends
This is what I believe is the spirit of D&D 4E, and my deal breaker for D&D Next: equal opportunities, with distinct specializations, in areas where conflict happens the most often, without having to worry about heavy micromanagement or system mastery. What I hope to be my most useful contributions to the D&D Community: DM Idea: Collaborative Mapping, Classless 4E (homebrew system, that hopefully helps in D&D Next development), Gamma World 7E random character generator (by yours truly), and the Concept of Perfect Imbalance (for D&D Next and other TRPGs in development) Pre-3E D&D should be recognized for what they were: simulation wargames where people could tell stories with The Best Answer to "Why 4E?" Fun vs. Engaging
Note: I'm considering an alternate version of this system where pre-made powers and even roles are kicked out of the curb, and instead utilize a "create your own power" sort of methodology by maximizing on the skill system.  The basis of this idea would be Marvel Superheroes RPG where the frequency of use of a "power stunt" is effectively a check vs. a given DC, that decreases over time.

With this in mind, I'm thinking that instead of the regular skills, you'd have various power capabilities (e.g. Fire Generation/Fire Control, Phasing, Invisibility, Force Field Generation), each with a stat tied to it [personally I wouldn't mind sticking to 4E's SCDIWC, although Marvel's FASERIP is also appropriate in this regard], then each time you want to make a power stunt, you pick a skill, make a skill check [Hard DC at first, normal DC after 3 attempts, easy DC after 6 attempts], and execute the stunt.  After 9 attempts, the power stunt becomes an actual power, likely an at-will, although certain powers could become encounter, recharge or daily attack powers instead, depending on DM discretion.

[ Those that don't have stats tied to them, or those that are movement type powers, are effectively used in other ways, like Flight power could be a movement type added to your character sheet, at the cost of less power capabilities. ]

This sort of system works best in a level-less environment however, so this alternate version is effectively a tie-up with a suggestion I made over at another homebrew thread.
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57047238 wrote:
If you're crossing the street and see a city bus barreling straight toward you with 'GIVE ME YOUR WALLET!' painted across its windshield, you probably won't be reaching for your wallet.
I Don't Always Play Strikers...But When I Do, I Prefer Vampire Stay Thirsty, My Friends
This is what I believe is the spirit of D&D 4E, and my deal breaker for D&D Next: equal opportunities, with distinct specializations, in areas where conflict happens the most often, without having to worry about heavy micromanagement or system mastery. What I hope to be my most useful contributions to the D&D Community: DM Idea: Collaborative Mapping, Classless 4E (homebrew system, that hopefully helps in D&D Next development), Gamma World 7E random character generator (by yours truly), and the Concept of Perfect Imbalance (for D&D Next and other TRPGs in development) Pre-3E D&D should be recognized for what they were: simulation wargames where people could tell stories with The Best Answer to "Why 4E?" Fun vs. Engaging
Let me know where this consideration ends.

If this is the plan, I will gladely look at "Marvel Superheroes RPG" and help you with what you need. If that however will be the case I want to ask you to leave this thread as it is, allow me to copy it and boot a new thread under my name, since what we have here is something I really intend on using in the future, mainly because of how close it is the the official 4e ruleset. 

I did have a few comments on your changes, but I accidentally closed the text file without saving, and right now I'm so frustrated that I can't be bothered to re-write it xD 

So yeah, If you go and use this new system, can I have this version and keep on improving upon it? 

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Let me know where this consideration ends.

If this is the plan, I will gladely look at "Marvel Superheroes RPG" and help you with what you need. If that however will be the case I want to ask you to leave this thread as it is, allow me to copy it and boot a new thread under my name, since what we have here is something I really intend on using in the future, mainly because of how close it is the the official 4e ruleset. 

I did have a few comments on your changes, but I accidentally closed the text file without saving, and right now I'm so frustrated that I can't be bothered to re-write it xD 

So yeah, If you go and use this new system, can I have this version and keep on improving upon it? 

I'm keen on working with both, specifically the main version since the offshoot version is far less likely to be balanced, and harder to make new "powers" for.

Besides, both the main version and the Marvel Superheroes RPG version are interesting mental exercises
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57047238 wrote:
If you're crossing the street and see a city bus barreling straight toward you with 'GIVE ME YOUR WALLET!' painted across its windshield, you probably won't be reaching for your wallet.
I Don't Always Play Strikers...But When I Do, I Prefer Vampire Stay Thirsty, My Friends
This is what I believe is the spirit of D&D 4E, and my deal breaker for D&D Next: equal opportunities, with distinct specializations, in areas where conflict happens the most often, without having to worry about heavy micromanagement or system mastery. What I hope to be my most useful contributions to the D&D Community: DM Idea: Collaborative Mapping, Classless 4E (homebrew system, that hopefully helps in D&D Next development), Gamma World 7E random character generator (by yours truly), and the Concept of Perfect Imbalance (for D&D Next and other TRPGs in development) Pre-3E D&D should be recognized for what they were: simulation wargames where people could tell stories with The Best Answer to "Why 4E?" Fun vs. Engaging
That was the answer I was hoping for :D

Update the whole thing as soon as you can. I really love this whole thing. 

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More links! Qube's Block Builder, Classless D&D and the characters I've created using the classless system.
Regarding AoE:
I just realized, CONTROL ZONE is one giant AoE, that the control essentially gets more uses of as he levels.

Paragon Paths:
I was wondering, I think we should not make role-based paragon paths, but just let the players pick paragon paths tradtionally. Just give the DM final ruling of who meets the PPs prerequisite and who doesn't. In a way, Paragon Paths are just an extention of a theme.

Players at level 11 are obviously pretty dedicated (even if they started at 2-5) and probably glad they can take their appropriate or favourite Paragon Paths. There are a lot of class-specific ones (like those that give extra benefits to Warlock's Curses), but well just let the DM do his own homebrewing for that.


Will we do dual-roles?

Ideas:
Can we divide the striker to melee striker and ranged striker. Right now we are saying "Rogue is the steriotypical striker", but I think the ranger deserves that title as well.

Just make a twin-strike power (even make it: Prereq: Ranged Striker) and a Hunter's Quarry. Not only will this mean less hedeache for us, making sure the  Striker is melee/ranged combatible but also mean that all those Ranger and Warlock paragon paths can be taken and utilizied to their full potential. 

Ranged Striker:
Makes it easier to become a ranged controller or ranged leader due to good ranged support.
Twin Strike and Close Blast 3 power, since warlocks and sorcerers are also ranged strikers.
Hunter's Quarry/Warlock's Curse striker feature.

I also realized that there are no ranged weapons in your selection of weapons.

Shortbow/Simple Crossbow: 1d8 or 1d10
Longbow/Heavy Crossbow: 1d10 or 1d12

Smalle character must use the smaller version, of course.

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Look at my Playable Illithid, my Monster Generating excel file , my Lifestealer in progresss (Heroic tier almost complete!) , our Improved Orc, our Improving Kenku and our Improving Duergar
Also, take a look at my friend's Improved Minotaur, Gadren's amazing Arcane Archer and of course the Avatar Project
More links! Qube's Block Builder, Classless D&D and the characters I've created using the classless system.
Regarding AoE:
I just realized, CONTROL ZONE is one giant AoE, that the control essentially gets more uses of as he levels.

AFAIK there's only one feat that grants you only one additional use, and area burst 1 square (ala Cloud of Daggers) is apparently a bit too small, making it a 2x2 within 10 is a bit clunky in wording, so the cleanest and simplest I could think up in terms of wording and effect.

Paragon Paths:
I was wondering, I think we should not make role-based paragon paths, but just let the players pick paragon paths tradtionally. Just give the DM final ruling of who meets the PPs prerequisite and who doesn't. In a way, Paragon Paths are just an extention of a theme.

Players at level 11 are obviously pretty dedicated (even if they started at 2-5) and probably glad they can take their appropriate or favourite Paragon Paths. There are a lot of class-specific ones (like those that give extra benefits to Warlock's Curses), but well just let the DM do his own homebrewing for that.

Agreed. We're making adjustments to the system, not building 5E.

That said, I'd rule that you gain access to paragon paths and epic destinies whose prerequisite class has the same role as your primary or secondary role.  In addition, all paragon paths and epic destinies that have power sources as prerequisites (e.g. Any arcane class) is free game.

Will we do dual-roles?

Actually, I think the system by default *is* dual-role, so the more important question is: will we do *single* roles?

That said, I suppose the idea of equal parts primary and secondary does have some merit, but then again the system will have difficulty with it without being broken.  At best, I guess a Paragon or Epic tier feat that reads "You gain the primary benefit of your secondary role" might be worth looking at

Ideas:
Can we divide the striker to melee striker and ranged striker. Right now we are saying "Rogue is the steriotypical striker", but I think the ranger deserves that title as well.

Just make a twin-strike power (even make it: Prereq: Ranged Striker) and a Hunter's Quarry. Not only will this mean less hedeache for us, making sure the  Striker is melee/ranged combatible but also mean that all those Ranger and Warlock paragon paths can be taken and utilizied to their full potential. 

Ranged Striker:
Makes it easier to become a ranged controller or ranged leader due to good ranged support.
Twin Strike and Close Blast 3 power, since warlocks and sorcerers are also ranged strikers.
Hunter's Quarry/Warlock's Curse striker feature.

I also realized that there are no ranged weapons in your selection of weapons.

Shortbow/Simple Crossbow: 1d8 or 1d10
Longbow/Heavy Crossbow: 1d10 or 1d12

Smalle character must use the smaller version, of course.

Actually, there's no need to change the prerequisite (must have combat advantage), as the feature applies melee, ranged, and even burst and blast attacks.  I'll simply change the controller effect to slide 1 square instead of prone.

As for the lack of ranged weapons, that's intentional: regardless of how you flavor it -- heavy machine gun, bb pellet gun, artillery crossbow, hand crossbow, shortbow -- it's still going to do damage based on how you'll be wielding it; in the given examples, heavy machine gun would be a ranged two-handed heavy weapon (maybe artillery crossbow as well), bb pellet gun could be a ranged swift improvised weapon, hand crossbow would be a ranged one-handed light weapon, while a shortbow would be a ranged two-handed light weapon.

Size would be a relative issue here as well; just bump the damage dice down one notch (2d8 -> 2d6 -> 1d12 -> 1d10 -> 2d4 -> 1d8 -> 1d6 -> 1d4) and you're good to go.

The limiting range hasn't been set though, so I've added it just now  
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57047238 wrote:
If you're crossing the street and see a city bus barreling straight toward you with 'GIVE ME YOUR WALLET!' painted across its windshield, you probably won't be reaching for your wallet.
I Don't Always Play Strikers...But When I Do, I Prefer Vampire Stay Thirsty, My Friends
This is what I believe is the spirit of D&D 4E, and my deal breaker for D&D Next: equal opportunities, with distinct specializations, in areas where conflict happens the most often, without having to worry about heavy micromanagement or system mastery. What I hope to be my most useful contributions to the D&D Community: DM Idea: Collaborative Mapping, Classless 4E (homebrew system, that hopefully helps in D&D Next development), Gamma World 7E random character generator (by yours truly), and the Concept of Perfect Imbalance (for D&D Next and other TRPGs in development) Pre-3E D&D should be recognized for what they were: simulation wargames where people could tell stories with The Best Answer to "Why 4E?" Fun vs. Engaging
Control Zone:
I was just thinking since the defender aura is at-will, sneaky attack is at-will and life-giving word is 2/encounter, that at level 3, 13 and 23 we should give the controller an additional use of his Zone.

Paragon Paths
Agreed

Single-roles
I think I already noted down benefits to single roles. It was a universal benefit. Something like

Defender: +1 to OAs
Leader: Allies gain a +1 to granted attack, and grants 2/4/6 additional hit points and temporary hit points with powers.
Striker: +1 to damage
Controller: Increase all force movement by 1, or targets that have been subjected to forced movement gain a penalty of some sort.

This would pretty much take care of it, i guess.

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Please update your first post according to my last few comments. (Skills, for example). I check this thread once or twice a week, and I usually just go to the first two posts and comment on everything I find. I don't want to make the mistake on commenting on the same thing twice, especially when I wrote a post that I then lost, and now I have no idea what I wrote in it xD

Remember to make fixes in blue! <3 

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Placed in several new changes along with implementing most of the original, planned changes

While the Marvel alternate was fun to do at first, I realize that the Marvel system is in itself far too nebulous, open-ended and - as it was set up - requires too much System Mastery(c) for my taste, so if anyone is willing to pick up the slack from that other thread feel free to do so.

I'm going to focus on this thread instead  
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57047238 wrote:
If you're crossing the street and see a city bus barreling straight toward you with 'GIVE ME YOUR WALLET!' painted across its windshield, you probably won't be reaching for your wallet.
I Don't Always Play Strikers...But When I Do, I Prefer Vampire Stay Thirsty, My Friends
This is what I believe is the spirit of D&D 4E, and my deal breaker for D&D Next: equal opportunities, with distinct specializations, in areas where conflict happens the most often, without having to worry about heavy micromanagement or system mastery. What I hope to be my most useful contributions to the D&D Community: DM Idea: Collaborative Mapping, Classless 4E (homebrew system, that hopefully helps in D&D Next development), Gamma World 7E random character generator (by yours truly), and the Concept of Perfect Imbalance (for D&D Next and other TRPGs in development) Pre-3E D&D should be recognized for what they were: simulation wargames where people could tell stories with The Best Answer to "Why 4E?" Fun vs. Engaging
I'm okay with that :D

I'll go over it, then well check out some utility powers, some feats and start working towards paragon tier :D 

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Look at my Playable Illithid, my Monster Generating excel file , my Lifestealer in progresss (Heroic tier almost complete!) , our Improved Orc, our Improving Kenku and our Improving Duergar
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Added/adjusted a few non-level utility powers, as well as one level 3 power Moved the Basic Attack power to the Powers post
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57047238 wrote:
If you're crossing the street and see a city bus barreling straight toward you with 'GIVE ME YOUR WALLET!' painted across its windshield, you probably won't be reaching for your wallet.
I Don't Always Play Strikers...But When I Do, I Prefer Vampire Stay Thirsty, My Friends
This is what I believe is the spirit of D&D 4E, and my deal breaker for D&D Next: equal opportunities, with distinct specializations, in areas where conflict happens the most often, without having to worry about heavy micromanagement or system mastery. What I hope to be my most useful contributions to the D&D Community: DM Idea: Collaborative Mapping, Classless 4E (homebrew system, that hopefully helps in D&D Next development), Gamma World 7E random character generator (by yours truly), and the Concept of Perfect Imbalance (for D&D Next and other TRPGs in development) Pre-3E D&D should be recognized for what they were: simulation wargames where people could tell stories with The Best Answer to "Why 4E?" Fun vs. Engaging
Okay, let's do this!!!!

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Ability Scores: Your array of ability scores is 16, 14, 14, 11, 10, 10. You gain a +1 to two ability scores of your choice at level 4, 8, 14, 18, 24 and 28, and a +1 to all ability scores at level 11 and 21. Your highest ability score is considered to be your Primary abiltiy score.


I have no idea if the levels are correct, but you get the idea.

Skills: "when utilizing this feature"... what feature? You mean skill rolls? Clarify, and but in the line "utility powers with a keyword matching to one of your trained skills, for example the History keyword or the Endurance keyword, allow you to roll the matching skill instead of the traditional skill check for that sitution.

I don't want to decrease all skill DCs by 3, so please make the trained bonus +5 again.

Add this part:

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Backround Benefits:
No two adventurers are alike, and even though two elves use a bow they might hail from different regions or be trained via different methods. Do resemble this variation you can select an optional background benefit from the list below:

· You gain a +2 bonus to a skill of your choice, trained or untrained, as long as you can connect it to your character's background or personality.
· You gain training in an additional skill, as long as you can connect that skill to your character's background or personality.



Roles Overview:

The latter one makes less since we don't have class skill lists, but good for those that want versatiliy instead of boosting an already trained skill.

The "Primary Role / Secondary Role" bit still declares you can't rolls the same role twice. Please fix this, since if you do the ranomiziation (roll a d4) you can roll Striker/Striker and treat it as a "Single Role character"

I think the single role benefits should be listed at the top of the role specific bits. 
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If you rolled the same role twice, or chose only one role for your character, you gain the power associated with your role, in addition to your "Single Role benefit" below:

· (list of single role benefits)


Sneaky Surprise:
Leader: The target grants combat advantage against the next creature that attacks it before the end of your next turn.

   Since this is essentially an at-will, I think the CA should have a limit to one usage.

Control Zone
 What effect does the zone have if you are Controller/Controller?
... ah, there it is. Controllers are more in the slide/prone deparment, and they tend to be ranged.

Life Giving Word
Should get increased usage and potency at the same rate as Healing Word. (+1d6 hp regained at certain levels and additional uses etc.) 
 
Elemental Affinity:
4 is way to much. Give me one character from TV show or movie that uses 4 damage types (don't say "Aang from Avatar: The Last Airbender".
What about paladin-type figures. Are they not allowed to do radiant melee damage?

I'll talk about utilities and subsequent posts in the next post. 

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg)

Look at my Playable Illithid, my Monster Generating excel file , my Lifestealer in progresss (Heroic tier almost complete!) , our Improved Orc, our Improving Kenku and our Improving Duergar
Also, take a look at my friend's Improved Minotaur, Gadren's amazing Arcane Archer and of course the Avatar Project
More links! Qube's Block Builder, Classless D&D and the characters I've created using the classless system.
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