11/21/2011 MM: "Grave Consequences, Part 2"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Making Magic, which goes live Monday morning on magicthegathering.com.
If Narcomoeba appeared to fill a blue rare hole, I'm guessing another card changed from uncommon to rare, right? Probably Nix?
It's a pity that no-one playtested for Unearth to not involve exiling. It probably wouldn't have worked, but it would have been cool if it did.

"Ah, the age-old conundrum. Defenders of a game are too blind to see it's broken, and critics are too idiotic to see that it isn't." - Brian McCormick

I wanna know what they were trying out for Grixis that wasn't working out.
When he mentioned that Haunting Echoes was originally just a graveyard Lobotomy, I expected that later in the article Extirpate would get a spotlight mentioning that they did eventually do that original idea. (And then they did it again.)
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Just wanted to mention that I actually had an opponent tear up a Lobotomy that I cast on him.  He had another copy to give to me, but I think it's worth noting the griefer aspects of the card and others inspired by it.  This same guy played a deck that was literally all land destruction spells, and counterspells, no creatures, or even anything that functioned as a win condition (I got him to stop playing it by claiming I could beat it with a stack of lands larger than his deck).  There seems to have been a shift in frequency and quality in designing land destruction spells, and counterspells, but "lobotomy" type spells have been pushed, in my opinion (surgical extraction, extirpate, for example), while other types of percieved unacceptable griefer tactics have been weakened maybe a little too much.
I don't see how Lobotomy is particularly griefer. Its immediate effect is just Distress. Obviously against a deck dependant on one card in particular it's much more devastating, but against an aggro deck (which as we all know is the only kind of deck True Casual Players play) it's really just an overcosted Despise.
blah blah metal lyrics
Something I learned long ago is that Spikes are the ones that love comprehending what makes the game tick. They love digging in deep to understand the minutiae of what matters.


No Mark, that's Melvin.  He plays the game too, sometimes, and just like a Vorthos (or some Vorthoi at any rate) would rather give Dragon Armor to an actual dragon than to a Savannah Lions, so Melvin is going to look for opportunities to see the clockworks of the game in action.  Spike just wants to prove himself superior; if he pursues this kind of understanding it's simply a way of demonstrating that he's smarter than (or at least as smart as) his buddies, or showing that he's learned better about the game than he knew before, either way so he can get an ego boost from the knowledge of his accomplishments.  He's not about understanding in the abstract, he's about harnessing the practical effects of it.  Melvin is the pure theorist who would appreciate Grim Lavamancer's ingenuity as a trailblazing design even if it was unplayably overcosted.
Also Bridge from Below is a design failure because it doesn't care what it's mana cost is.  Unless you have an Auratog or something, you never actually cast it, and it works better in a blue deck with Merfolk Looter than it does in a black deck that probably has to Mind Peel itself.
I don't see how Lobotomy is particularly griefer. Its immediate effect is just Distress. Obviously against a deck dependant on one card in particular it's much more devastating, but against an aggro deck (which as we all know is the only kind of deck True Casual Players play) it's really just an overcosted Despise.


Milling and extraction are griefer because they take the opponent's toys away; that he hadn't yet opened the toybox doesn't diminish the fact that he's been deprived of something he was looking forward to maybe using.  And I agree that it's odd they push this while undercutting nearly all other control strategies; I suspect it's a metagame decision designed to thwart otherwise-unstoppable combo decks.  They make the spells cheap mostly because they'll never get cast unless it's on turn 1 or 2 before the combo deck can win.
My New Phyrexia Writing Credits My M12 Writing Credits
As far as the benefit of the rest of Magic is concerned, gold cards in Legends were executed perfectly. They got all the excitement a designer could hope out of a splashy new mechanic without using up any of the valuable design space. Truly amazing. --Aaron Forsythe's Random Card Comment on Kei Takahashi
Something I learned long ago is that Spikes are the ones that love comprehending what makes the game tick. They love digging in deep to understand the minutiae of what matters.


No Mark, that's Melvin



Um, you do realize that Melvin and Spike are not mutually exclusive? Mark is talking about a particular flavour of Spike, perhaps one that you associate with Melvin - but, Melvin is on an entirely different axis then Spike, so you can easily have a Melviny Spike or a Vorthosy Spike. Melvin and Vorthos are not used in the same way as Spike, Timmy, and Johnny.
Who wants to throw away his or her entire hand to give a creature first strike even though that creature doesn't even need first strike? Spikes.


This seems more like a Johnny thing to me.  Spike looks at a drawback and asks if the card is sufficiently powerful to live with the drawback; Johnny asks if there is some way to circumvent the drawback or turn it into an advantage.  Of course, Spike will do the latter if it is a powerful enough strategy (as it was with discarding stuff in Odyssey block), but that doesn't mean it's automatically Spike's domain.
The Tarmogoyf story is just hilarious. "It's just a beater with no evasion." What could possibly go wrong?

Also, Surgical Extraction and Extirpate are card disadvantage and need to be set up. Lobotomy (but also Cranial Extraction and Memoricide) require less setting up and are therefore still costed at 4 mana. I think they're overall quite fair.

And, yeah, Melvin and Spike are completely different axes. And I totally agree with MaRo regardless: Grim Lavamancer is very Spikey. Spike loves fiddly cards that allow him to maximise resources because they truly show who the better player is. It's the same reason Spikes love Dredge.
76125763 wrote:
Zindaras' meta is like a fossil, ancient and its secrets yet to be uncovered. Only men of yore, long dead, knew of it.

I designed this cycle because I liked the idea of playing around with other costs. Normally black is the color to pay life costs, but as this was Torment, the "black set," I thought I'd help build this feel by bleeding a black-flavored element to the other four colors. Life payment felt like a bleed, but not something so egregious that it fundamentally broke the color wheel.




Is this a comment on phyrexian mana?

A world corrupted by a dark force to use lifeblood as a resource, even in other colours. But in phyrexia the colour wheel crashes and burns - most notably because of gitaxian probe and dismember. If that isn't something you regard as a mistake, perhaps it should be?
The Tarmogoyf story is just hilarious. "It's just a beater with no evasion." What could possibly go wrong?

I remember when everybody was saying this (or at least all the people who like to shout about their opinions on the Internet were).
For the record, the blue hole should have been Spellweaver Volute.
www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.a...

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My initial responses to rules questions are usually just answers. If you want an explanation as to why, say so. Just because it says I'm there, I'm not necessarily there. I leave my browser open so I don't have to reload ~30 tabs. Anyone who wants to text duel me through either PM or chat can just PM me with a format (and a time if playing through chat). I don't play standard.
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3CB
3CB #1 (1/30/11): Won by silasw, with Mishra's Factory, Orzhov Basilica, Vindicate. 3CB #2 (2/13/11): Won by Vektor480, with Mishra's Workshop, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs 3CB #3(2/20/11): Joint win between defuse, with Saprazzan Skerry, Scalding Tongs, Energy Field; and Mown, with The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Inkmoth Nexus, Sheltered Valley 3CB #4(3/13/11): Won by Mown, with Keldon Megaliths, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Boros Garrison 3CB #5(3/20/11): Won by silasw, with Black Lotus, Channel, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
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5CB 1 (3/6/11): Won by Maraxus-of-Keld, with Tropical Island, Thallid, Nether Spirit, Daze, Foil
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56819178 wrote:
So, how would I use a card that has a large in the top half and "sui?l? -- pu?? ?is?q" across the middle?
57031358 wrote:
99113151 wrote:
Winning is not important if: 1. You win by a blowout. 2. You pay billions of dollars in cards to win. If you like wasting money just to win one game, while you could have saved it to lose a few and end up winning more in the future, then it is fine by me.
what? do you ceremonially light your deck on fire after a win?
57169958 wrote:
Or did no one notice Transmogrifying Licid before. (And by not notice, I mean covered their ears and shouted LA LA LA LA )
57193048 wrote:
57169958 wrote:
Hmmm... I think the most awkward situation at the moment is simply the Myr Welder / Equipment / Licid / Aura craziness, but I'm pretty sure he's aware of it.
If the most awkward thing going on right now involves Licids, I declare victory.
56287226 wrote:
We regret to inform you of Trevor Kidd's untimely demise in an unfortunate accident involving a mysteriously blown breaker box and a photophobic creature of unknown origin at his home near Renton, Washington. We at the Wizards Community apologize for any inconvenience or delay, and assure you we'll be preparing a replacement to assume his duties as soon as we finish warming up the cloning vats.
[02:47:46] It doesn't merely "come out of suspend" - you take the last time counter off, and then suspend triggers and say "now cast that! CAST IT NOOOOOW!" [02:47:49] Because suspend has no indoors voice
[10:11:33] !opalescence [10:11:33] Opalescence {2WW} |Enchantment| Each other non-Aura enchantment is a creature with power and toughness each equal to its converted mana cost. It's still an enchantment. · Reserved,UD-R,Vin,Leg,Cla,USBC [10:11:51] *sigh* [10:12:10] Otecko: Do you have a question about Opalescence? [10:12:17] sure [10:12:23] $10 on humility interaction [10:12:25] :P [10:12:29] :D [10:12:47] humility + opalescence put into play by replenish
Ego
58325628 wrote:
Mage is awesome, BTW.
56967858 wrote:
Dear Mage24365, You are totally awesome. Thank you so much. I hope you are able to dine in Paradise without kicking the bucket to actually get there, and that every dollar you ever make magically becomes two more.
58158398 wrote:
56761258 wrote:
I don't think there are any cards like that. There are things that prevent you from activating activated abilities, things that increase their cost, and things that counter them, but I don't think anything triggers from them specifically. There are things that trigger from targeting, so that might be relevant, but I can't think of anything that triggers from targeting a player. I'm almost positive there's nothing that triggers from damage being prevented.
Rings of Brighthearth; Dormant Gomazoa; Samite Ministration.
56761258 wrote:
Well played.

 

...as black and green are the two colors most associated with the graveyard in the color pie (white is third, with blue and red a distant fourth and fifth).



You wouldn't know it from the rest of the two articles.
Something I learned long ago is that Spikes are the ones that love comprehending what makes the game tick. They love digging in deep to understand the minutiae of what matters.


No Mark, that's Melvin



Um, you do realize that Melvin and Spike are not mutually exclusive? Mark is talking about a particular flavour of Spike, perhaps one that you associate with Melvin - but, Melvin is on an entirely different axis then Spike, so you can easily have a Melviny Spike or a Vorthosy Spike. Melvin and Vorthos are not used in the same way as Spike, Timmy, and Johnny.



I'd go one step further, and say that Melvin and Spike are actually unilaterally inclusive. Vorthosy Spike is not easily had. For simplicity's sake, I say we can say all Spikes are Melvin.
I disagree. I know several Spikes who don't really care about the way copy effects or the layers work, except inasmuch as they let them win. I'd say the Civilized Scholar / Cackling Counterpart interaction is a Melvin one primarily. A deck built around untapping a Scholar without him flipping would be a Johnny deck, until it looks good enough to win whatever context it's being brought to; only then does Spike start to like it.

But it's worth remembering that very few players are 100% Spike.
I disagree. I know several Spikes who don't really care about the way copy effects or the layers work, except inasmuch as they let them win. I'd say the Civilized Scholar / Cackling Counterpart interaction is a Melvin one primarily. A deck built around untapping a Scholar without him flipping would be a Johnny deck, until it looks good enough to win whatever context it's being brought to; only then does Spike start to like it.

But it's worth remembering that very few players are 100% Spike.



I think this is because there are different kinds of Melvin, just like there are distinct kinds of T/J/S, like the Power Timmy or the Diversity Timmy. Some Spikes will have stronger or different Melvin tendencies than others. 

I also said inulateral as opposed to mutual, because indeed you can have interactions like the one you mentioned that are Melvin but not Spike. It's the other way around that I say works =p
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57070368 wrote:
58280208 wrote:
Even metallix is gone now.
I'm right here.
The Tarmogoyf story is just hilarious. "It's just a beater with no evasion." What could possibly go wrong?

I remember when everybody was saying this (or at least all the people who like to shout about their opinions on the Internet were).



Yeah, me too, but they must be feeling pretty silly right about now as well.
76125763 wrote:
Zindaras' meta is like a fossil, ancient and its secrets yet to be uncovered. Only men of yore, long dead, knew of it.
For the record, the blue hole should have been Spellweaver Volute.
www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.a...



I would guess that the Blue and Black rare slots that had to be filled were the original Black and Blue Planeswalker slots. They were only going to use UBG in Future Sight, but they weren't ready and so Tarmogoyf was the G replacement.

www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.a...

"With our designs done, the team turned them into the Future Sight development team. The blue, black, and green ones were put into the file. Tarmogoyf, for those that don't know this already, was the green rare taken out to make room for Fendari [original name for G PW]. "