Need help choosing a weapon for a ranger

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Alright, CharOP, I have a problem. My current character is a Dexterity-based Elven Ranger that is effective in melee and at range. Our DM has given each of us a "legendary" weapon (the abilities of which are to be found out through use and various checks). We get to choose what type of weapon it is, with a few restrictions. It must be a weapon that we are proficient in without feats. So no weapon proficiency feats, no racial weapon feats. The weapon in the end will be worth it, as it automatically upgrades every 5 levels (by +1 enhancement), and has amazing on-crit effects, as well as other powers (non of which I know yet).

The issue I have is choosing a weapon. The real version of the character was a Drow that used a Drow Long Knife, so he was able to throw it and stab with it. Because of the restrictions, this weapon choice is no longer possible.

We are also going to receive double exp through-out heroic.

Now, I know weapon dice don't matter after heroic, but right now it hurts because I'm stuck with a dagger if I want +3 proficiency. My question is should I stay with the dagger and stick it out until paragon (where I'll get the Snow Tiger PP to increase its damage), or should I go with a heavy thrown spear (or some other weapon that I'm not seeing), and accept the +2 proficiency to get a 1d8 weapon?

Now, I know weapon dice don't matter after heroic, but right now it hurts because I'm stuck with a dagger if I want +3 proficiency.

Um... no you're not.

Swing that Rapier proud.

Uh

You can't throw a rapier, which is what he was asking for.

But yes, aside from superior weapons you're really looking only at +2 weapons for d8 damage, such as the Trident.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Yeah, the issue is the dagger is the only +3 that can be thrown. If I could throw a rapier, I'd do that in a heart beat :P
That's a rather large assumption to make.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Yeah, the issue is the dagger is the only +3 that can be thrown. If I could throw a rapier, I'd do that in a heart beat :P

In that case... yech.  Yea, you're kinda SOL here, since you won't have access to Farbond Spellblades.
Would it maybe be worth it to use a spear instead? Or does the higher proficiency beat out the damage?
Suppose I should have mentioned this: the "legendary" weapon is the only weapon our character would want to use/is allowed to.

Would those two be better? I just figured Snow Tiger because it gave a straight bonus to daggers whether you're throwing them or not.

Yeah, I really wish there was something to be done about that. (Honestly I wish the restriction on superior weapons wasn't there, but what're you gonna do?) Technically I can forgo taking the weapon, but we're going to be a campaign where magic items are slightly rarer, so this would save time and money. And eventually it's going to be better than any other similar weapon I could get.


Not completely. I went with the hunter-style ranger, the one that can move between melee and ranged.

I could always use a different character that would be able to use a better weapon, even with the restrictions. I just picked this one because we were about even on melee and ranged. We have a wizard, sorcerer, pacifict cleric, fighter (defender), pursuit avenger, and a rogue. As long as it's not boring, I'm pretty much open to any suggestions. Looking at it now, it looks like we might need another defender or leader...
Which still is based completely around Twin Strike, and if you don't do that you won't be even remotely close to optimized.

If you can manage to remove the superior weapon restriction (really would recommend this...kindof screws over any weapon-using class, especially the strikers), then you can go with Spiked Chain Training and get a good double weapon.  Market it as a unique weapon being even more legendary as a result and only you know how to use it properly.

There are some basic facts, though:

- You will not be able to get one weapon that's equally good for melee and ranged (other than the dagger, which sucks for rangers). 
- Rangers, more so than most other classes, are generally expected to use more than one weapon.
- Your DM's conditions put an undue burden on you.  Try to discuss them a little to find something that works, otherwise you really can't do your concept.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
True, but even pre-nerf T&S used two weapons.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Y'know, the more I think about it, the less useful this character seems in this party. We have a wizard, sorcerer, pacifict cleric, fighter (defender), a melee dagger rogue, and a pursuit avenger joining once Winter Break starts. Looking at it, it seems we need a defender or leader more than a melee/ranged striker. And the dagger rogue can basically do what this character can, but is meant to do it with a dagger, and thus can get better results.

Should I just scrap this ranger? And if so, suggestions on someone else to put in?
Full offense Killswitch variant, or maybe an Illusion of Hope style build.

t~
Honestly, in that party, you're fine for Defending and Leading.  Another striker will mnake encounters go much more quickly, especially if the Wizard and Fighter are built well.

That being said, Killswitch would be damn nice there too.

If you want a decent striker who's good without superior weapons, why not try a Monk?
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
@erachima: I was actually thinking a CHA paladin at first, before our fighter chose his character.

@tiornys: I've heard of Killswitch, but never actually looked at it. How does it work?

@thespaceinvader: I was thinking monk as a striker, but I'm incredibly unlucky when rolling, and the fact that I wouldn't be able to get an accurate implement kinda turned me off. Would it still be worth it? The "legendary" weapon could be turned into a ki focus.
D'oy, yeah, no superior implements either.

Yeah, your DM needs to lighten up.

Another amusing possibiliy would be a Mage's Drow Long Knife - the Mage's Weapon enchantment is an any heavy/light blade enchant with which anyone proficient in the Dagger is proficient, regardless of other proficiency.  It's nice for people who don't really care too much about exactly what enchant they're using, but want a Superior weapon.  My TWF Runepriest will be using a Mage's Bastard Sword in all likelihood.

Get your superior weapon without paying for it.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
It occurs to me that Killswitch wants a Superior crossbow, which again runs into the weapon restrictions.  That said, here's a link to the build thread, where Auspex7 does a great job of talking about what goes into the build and how it runs.

t~
Meh, killswitch it workable with a normal crossbow.  His best bits are mostly non-hit anyway.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
It's not so much that superior weapons are banned, it's just that the legendary weapons transfer from wielder to wielder (usually upon death) and keep the last owner's soul in them. So when our characters come across ours, the are going to be a fairly common weapon type, something we could find in a shop, as opposed to a spiked chain. And no superior implement because they would have an enhancement already,though actuallythat might not matter.

But technically I can choose to ignore the legendary weapon, if something else is so much better for a character. In the long run it might screw me, but it might be worth it. In that case, I could choose to get the Rod from our last campaign. The rod could stretch into a 50 ft ladder (which can also be used as a battering ram), change into 1 of four weapons, and it has two daily powers that I can't remember at the moment. But I think one either dazed or stunned.

Also, these characters start at level 1, if that changes anything. Should've been clearer about that, my apologies.
o_O

Yeah, seriously, he needs to lighten up.

Surely, a legendary ancestral weapon would be pretty unusual, and therefore, superior.

Or, it would have taken on the properties of its many wielders over the years, becoming somehow sharper, more deadly, more dangerous, and therefore, superior.

Or, just reflavour.  The increased stats have very little bearing on how you and your DM agree to describe your character's appearance.  A Bastard Sword is just a big longsword.  A Drow Long Knife is basically a machete.  Etc.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
That sort of fluff almost makes it more likely that they'll take the form of a superior weapon.  If it's unique and legednary and transforms to suit you, then it really should be able to be what you're best at.  And what any adventurer worth his salt is best at is probably a superior weapon/implement.  I see no reason to restrict them if you have the proficiency feat.

Also, superior implements don't have enhancements.  They have superior implement properties, which are designed to mimic weapon properties and do a very good job.  Empowered Crit is nothing more than a variant of High Crit.  I really hope you don't expect to be prohibited from using a Greataxe because of its High Crit.  Similarly, another name for a Bastard Sword could be Accurate Broadsword.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Sorry, by the superior implement comment I meant that the fact that it was accurate might not matter. I might be able to get the accurate implement and the legendary enhancement.
Rapier-Thief, winner of yet another silly DM restriction contest.

The trouble with custom weapons is without knowing if your DM is a moron we can't judge if some random bad-weapon will keep up with a good-weapon.  If he monkeys with proficiency bonuses or otherwise plays with accuracy, you'll want the legendary mcguffin, if he tacks on a larger damage die you want the rapier.

The ranger you want for that party is an archer anyways - so you could just longbow it up and call it a day. 
I'm going to bet that the DM would want to punish him for turning his nose up at the fabulous gift he's being offered if he told him he was going to play a character that's incompatible with his fancy weapons.


We don't have the whole story, of course, but from my armchair I'm going to bet this campaign is more about the DM telling his story than the players playing at being heroes.  When you expect your players to build their characters around the items you want them to carry around, something needs fixing. 
"When Friday comes, we'll all call rats fish." D&D Outsider
Okay, so you havetwo melee, two ranged, a Pacifist Cleric and a third melee coming in....it seems you like melee....want to be able to strike from a distance too....I'd be tempted to go Swordmage/Warlock. Instead of ranged attacks you'll be able to teleport in, you can run mark shenanigans with the fighter and flank with teh rogue and run a two-deep formation when facing brute/controller combos.

My other idea is Ranged Warlord. There your melee attacks are made through the fighter/rogue/avenger. The powers are cool, but biggest buffs will most often help the Sorcerer and Wizard, not that that's a bad thing.
Sorry, by the superior implement comment I meant that the fact that it was accurate might not matter. I might be able to get the accurate implement and the legendary enhancement.



If your DM is allowing superior implements, then there is zero reason to prohibit superior weapons.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
It has to be a weapon YOU are proficient with, without feats?

Your proficiency has what to do with how common various sorts of legendary weapons would be?

But...

There is ONE class I know of, that can easily and with a non-twisted build be truly effective both melee and ranged, with a single weapon/implement that is within the class's default proficiencies, and with an assortment of powers both melee and ranged.

That class is Bard. It has weapon proficiency (and thus the weapon qualifies) with Short Sword, Long Sword, or Scimitar. Spend a feat on either Swordmage multiclass or Arcane Implement Proficiency, and use the same weapon as your implement. If you go with the Short Sword, consider also multiclassing Rogue for the encounter Sneak Attack. Don't forget that Bards aren't subject to the one-multiclass limit - it's theoretically possible for a single Bard to multiclass into at least 20 other classes.

The Bard could also go with Staff and use a different multiclass. Staff Expertise really rocks for a caster. Unfortunately it's an inferior weapon in melee - but (with Expertise) it is a Reach weapon, and with Hafted Defense it makes you harder to hit.

"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
@warrl: I don't really wanna do bard, since that was once of my more recent characters.

So I wrote up Killswitch, and it got denied. Not because it was too powerful or anything like that, but because it meant that the spotlight wouldn't be on me during my turn, apparently. Even though the spotlight would be on me because I would be the general directing everyone else. My question is why giving bonuses to rolls or even marking aren't banned at this point, as that helps other people as well. But I digress.

We're not allowed to use Essentials because our DM doesn't like how the classes are--lack of choices, etc.--so now I made a charge-lock that does nothing but use Eldritch Strike to charge. At least this one had a decent weapon available to him (Falchion-he's a Tiefling so I took Turathi Weapon Training.) I made it as simple as possible (read: as ironically like Essentials as possible) and he will be the most reckless character ever created. I will charge and continue to charge until my enemies or I are dead. If he doesn't let me play this one, I'm quitting. I've submitted more than enough character ideas that either don't work because of the weapon guidelines, or for some other reason that makes no sense.

The sad part is he's a good DM, and is usually very flexible. For some reason he decided to use a bunch of restrictions that we've never had before.
So basically your DM is acting like an idjit. You know what the answer to that is (besides openly discussing that you're not enjoying the restrictions and that you'd rather just play the character you want to play)? Go with him and draft up a superweapon concept. Specifically, this superweapon:

Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
I think that weapon would be far too powerful for our (or anyone else's) campaign. What is that thing, 5d100, High Crit, Brutal 90?
Probably +2 AB, 20d10 damage, Special Ability: Impromptu Gregorian Chanting IMO. :P
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
Does that mean whenever that special goes off, you automatically reduce all creatures with fey origin in close burst 5 to 0 hit points?