Act of treason

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Hey guys,

Last night my opponent act of treasoned my palace guard which had spirit mantle attached. So question 1, what happens to spirit mantle and question 2 is if they attacked with my palace guard, will it come back to me tapped?


Thanks.
MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC!!!!!!!!
Spirit mantles stays attached.  And yes, it comes back to you tapped.  (but then untaps during your untap step)
MTG Rules Advisor
Hey guys,

Last night my opponent act of treasoned my palace guard which had spirit mantle attached. So question 1, what happens to spirit mantle and question 2 is if they attacked with my palace guard, will it come back to me tapped?


Thanks.


The Spirit Mantle stays attached.

The creature will return to you tapped if your opponent tapped it.
 
Thanks alotLaughing
MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC!!!!!!!!
If it was an aura that said "Enchant creature you control" (as some do), then it will fall off once you stop controlling it.

~ Tim
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
This is confusing.

Look at the rulings at the bottom of this page.

That seems to suggest that the Spirit Mantle used in the first example would be sent to the graveyard, is this correct?
This is confusing.

Look at the rulings at the bottom of this page.

That seems to suggest that the Spirit Mantle used in the first example would be sent to the graveyard, is this correct?


What makes you think it says anything like that?

~ Tim
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
This is confusing.

Look at the rulings at the bottom of this page.

That seems to suggest that the Spirit Mantle used in the first example would be sent to the graveyard, is this correct?


What makes you think it says anything like that?

~ Tim



"Gaining control of a creature doesn't cause you to gain control of any Auras or Equipment attached to it."
This is confusing.

Look at the rulings at the bottom of this page.

That seems to suggest that the Spirit Mantle used in the first example would be sent to the graveyard, is this correct?


What makes you think it says anything like that?

~ Tim



"Gaining control of a creature doesn't cause you to gain control of any Auras or Equipment attached to it."


That's true. No one here said that your opponent would gain control of Spirit Mantle. However, that doesn't mean that Spirit Mantle becomes unattached or moves to the graveyard.
Ever feel like people on these forums can't possibly understand how wrong they are? Feeling trolled? Don't get mad. Report Post.
This is confusing.

Look at the rulings at the bottom of this page.

That seems to suggest that the Spirit Mantle used in the first example would be sent to the graveyard, is this correct?


What makes you think it says anything like that?

~ Tim



"Gaining control of a creature doesn't cause you to gain control of any Auras or Equipment attached to it."


That's true. No one here said that your opponent would gain control of Spirit Mantle. However, that doesn't mean that Spirit Mantle becomes unattached or moves to the graveyard.



Ah, so it's just a question of ownership? Even though the creature was under an opponents control, the aura would not be - however, the creature would still benefit from the aura. Is my understanding correct?
This is confusing.

Look at the rulings at the bottom of this page.

That seems to suggest that the Spirit Mantle used in the first example would be sent to the graveyard, is this correct?

are you referring to this?
8/15/2010 Gaining control of a creature doesn't cause you to gain control of any Auras or Equipment attached to it.


It's true, AoT only grants control of the creature. Attached objects stay under the control of their same controller. Sometimes some auras will fall off (eg. Spirit Loop because the enchant ability is no longer true or Unholy Strength if AoT's controller had a Akroma's Memorial on the field which makes the creature have Pro Black)

If I steal a creature with an attached Argentum Armor, my opponent still controls the armor and if I attack with the stolen creature, he will control the Armor trigger and he may just destroy the creature I just stole of his.

Other equipment like Sword of Body and Mind will give him the 2/2 wolf token because he controls the sword, but he'll still mill 10 cards because he's the damaged player.

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DCI Certified Judge since July 13, 2013
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"Gaining control of a creature doesn't cause you to gain control of any Auras or Equipment attached to it."

The rules do not require an Aura attached to another object to be controlled by the same player that controls the object the Aura is attached to. Indeed, many Auras are designed with the intention that they be attached to something controlled by an opponent - Pacifism, for example. Some Auras can only be attached to an object controlled by their controller; in such cases the Enchant ability of the Aura will specify "Enchant creature you control - Fire Whip, for example. Absent such an ability, the Aura will not foall off.

The same applies to an Equipment attached to a creature. The Equip ability can only be activated targeting a creature controlled by the Equipment's controller, but once attached teh Equipment won't fall off if the creature changes controller (again, absent an effect saying it does.)
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This is confusing.

Look at the rulings at the bottom of this page.

That seems to suggest that the Spirit Mantle used in the first example would be sent to the graveyard, is this correct?


What makes you think it says anything like that?

~ Tim



"Gaining control of a creature doesn't cause you to gain control of any Auras or Equipment attached to it."


That's true. No one here said that your opponent would gain control of Spirit Mantle. However, that doesn't mean that Spirit Mantle becomes unattached or moves to the graveyard.



Ah, so it's just a question of ownership? Even though the creature was under an opponents control, the aura would not be - however, the creature would still benefit from the aura. Is my understanding correct?


Well, technically, the "owner" of the card doesn't change. The controller of the card changes.

While Spirit Mantle is usually used to enchant your own cretaures, nothing says that it MUST be on your own creatures. Compare to an aura like Breath of Fury, which DOES say "Enchant creature you control." If you had this on your creature, and your opponent Act of Treasoned your creature, Breath of Fury would fall off, because it's no longer enchanting something that matches what its Enchant ability says. Spirit Mantle, on the other hand, just says "Enchant creature." So as long as it stays attached to a creature (regardless who controls it), the attachment is legal. 
Ever feel like people on these forums can't possibly understand how wrong they are? Feeling trolled? Don't get mad. Report Post.
I'll throw one more example to help illustrate this.

If you cast a Forced Worship on your opponents creature, you are the only one that can activate the ability.  You control the Aura your opponent controls the creature.
I think it is a good example of why who controls Auras and creatures can be different.
MTG Rules Advisor
I'll throw one more example to help illustrate this.

If you cast a Forced Worship on your opponents creature, you are the only one that can activate the ability.  You control the Aura your opponent controls the creature.
I think it is a good example of why who controls Auras and creatures can be different.



Yeah, I understand now. I was just confused when I saw the ruling saying that you wouldn't gain control of any Aura's or Equipment attachment and thought that meant that those cards would would 'fall off'. I see now that a creature may come under an opponents control taking along with it any Auras and Equipment, but those things still remain under your control.
Yeah, I understand now. I was just confused when I saw the ruling saying that you wouldn't gain control of any Aura's or Equipment attachment and thought that meant that those cards would would 'fall off'. I see now that a creature may come under an opponents control taking along with it any Auras and Equipment, but those things still remain under your control.


Well they still MIGHT fall off - if they are no longer legally attached. It depends on the circumstances (Novacat gave some good examples).

~ Tim
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)