## plumbing opinions re: grab and go vs dwarf

10 posts / 0 new
Pietro722
Joined Mar 2007
22 Posts
a creature uses "grab and go" vs a dwarf.

the creature moves 2 squares away.

where does the dwarf end up?

some of us argued that 'grab and go' says the target must end up adjacent to the attacker and therefore the dwarf is moved 2 squares also.

some of us argued that the wording (ie order of events) in 'grab and go' allows the dwarf's stability power to function after (and regardless of) the attacker's moved distance and the dwarf ends up 1 square short (ie with an empty square in between the 2).

opinions?

artoomis
Joined Jul 2003
1754 Posts
Grab and Go:  Can't find this in the compendium,.  What does it do, precisely?
Alcestis
Joined Oct 2009
8509 Posts
If the power says "pulls into a square adjacent" then it works. Because no distance is used, you pull till they are in an adjacent square. This is the reason for errata of slide powers that had a destination but no distance... technically you could iteratively slide people into a zone infinity times before you ended the enemy next to you. Worked by RAW. Reducing infinity by 1 is still infinity.

If it says "pulls two squares into an adjacent square." Then the movement is reduced 1. If this makes the end square not legal, no movement happens at all because when a specific destination square is required it must be met or the movement doesn't happen.
Cohen95
Joined Mar 2008
3507 Posts
Here it is:
Grab and Go (standard; at-will)
+12 vs. Fortitude; 1d8 + 5 damage, and the Lost One kidnapper slides 2 squares, then slides the target 2 squares. The target must end its slide adjacent to the kidnapper’s new position.

The target must end its slide adjacent to the kidnapper's new position. This specific rule of Grab and Go trumps the general rules of the Dwarf's racial ability to reduce forced movement.

I might would allow a dwarven character to "save" vs the extra forced movement, but either way they should end up adjacent.

"Not only are you wrong, but I even created an Excel spreadsheet to show you how wrong you are." --James Wyatt, May 2006

Dilige, et quod vis fac

Alcestis
Joined Oct 2009
8509 Posts
That isn't right. Destination squares are required, not forced. If you don't have enough distance to reach the square (for any reason) then it simply doesn't happen. Forced Movement rules in the RC are pretty exact about this. RC pg. 212.
MarkB
Joined Jul 2004
1659 Posts
It is possible to use this power legally against a dwarf, so long as the attacker's slide leaves it only one square from the dwarf. For instance, the attacker starts out directly east of the dwarf, slides 2 squares north, and slides the dwarf 1 square north or north-east to a square adjacent to it.

If it tries to use it in a manner which requires the dwarf to move 2 squares (i.e. moving 2 squares east and drawing the dwarf after it), the slide fails entirely.
Mand12
Joined Jun 2010
17444 Posts
Here it is:
Grab and Go (standard; at-will)
+12 vs. Fortitude; 1d8 + 5 damage, and the Lost One kidnapper slides 2 squares, then slides the target 2 squares. The target must end its slide adjacent to the kidnapper’s new position.

The target must end its slide adjacent to the kidnapper's new position. This specific rule of Grab and Go trumps the general rules of the Dwarf's racial ability to reduce forced movement.

I might would allow a dwarven character to "save" vs the extra forced movement, but either way they should end up adjacent.

....No.  All forced movement powers specify the number of squares that they move the target.  Slide 2 is not always Slide 2, in fact it is always reduced by 1 by a dwarf unless the power specifically exempts it from the dwarf racial, which I can't think of any that do.

Furthermore, if a destination square is specified and you don't have enough squares of movement to get to it, the movement fails outright.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
artoomis
Joined Jul 2003
1754 Posts
Here it is:
Grab and Go (standard; at-will)
+12 vs. Fortitude; 1d8 + 5 damage, and the Lost One kidnapper slides 2 squares, then slides the target 2 squares. The target must end its slide adjacent to the kidnapper’s new position.

The target must end its slide adjacent to the kidnapper's new position. This specific rule of Grab and Go trumps the general rules of the Dwarf's racial ability to reduce forced movement.

I might would allow a dwarven character to "save" vs the extra forced movement, but either way they should end up adjacent.

....No.  All forced movement powers specify the number of squares that they move the target.  Slide 2 is not always Slide 2, in fact it is always reduced by 1 by a dwarf unless the power specifically exempts it from the dwarf racial, which I can't think of any that do.

Furthermore, if a destination square is specified and you don't have enough squares of movement to get to it, the movement fails outright.

Correct.

Grab and Go (standard; at-will)
+12 vs. Fortitude; 1d8 + 5 damage, and the Lost One kidnapper slides 2 squares, then slides the target 2 squares. The target must end its slide adjacent to the kidnapper’s new position.

The attacker will have to Slide 1 square and Slide the Dwarf 1 square or else the Dwarf won't be Slid because it won't be able to reach the Forced Movement's Destination square.

Possible outcome include:

1) Attacker Slide 2 squares and Slide the Dwarf 0 square

2) Attacker Slide 1 squares and Slide the Dwarf 1 square to a square adjacent to the attacker.

3) Attacker Slide 0 square and Slide the Dwarf 1 square to a square adjacent to the attacker.*

*Arguable if even possible due to the mention of target needing to end its slide adjacent to the kidnapper’s new position.  If the attacker hasn't moved, its not a new position one could say...

[sblock]

RC 212  Distance, Specific Destination, or Both: The power or other effect that produces a Forced Movement specifies a distance in squares, a specific destination, or both for the movement. When a distance is specified, it is maximum;  the creature or effect producing the Forced Movement can move its target up to that number of squares  (or none at all)  that distance For instance, a character’s Power might say: ‘’You Slide the target 4 squares (or up to 4 squares); both mean the character can move the target up to 4 squares or not move it at all. . When a destination is specified, it is absolute; the creature or effect must either move the target to that destination or not move it at all. Often a destination is combined with a distance, which means the target can be moved to the destination only if it is farther away than the specified distances. For instance, a character’s Power might say, ‘’You slide the target up to 5 squares to a square adjacent to you (or 5 squares to a square adjacent to you’’) both mean of which mean the character can move the target up to 5 squares but only if the move end in a square adjacent to that character.
pentay
Joined Mar 2010
362 Posts

The dwarf's racial ability reduces the forced movement by 1 square. So against a dwarf it 'says':

+12 vs Fortitude; 1d8+5 damage, and the Lost One kidnapper slides (up to) 2 squares, then slides the target (up to) 1 square. The target must end its slide adjacent to the kidnapper's new position.

The kidnapper must move to a new position, and the dwarf must end adjacent to this new position for that portion of the power to work. If those conditions aren't met, the slide fails.  However, the kidnapper still slides (up to) 2 squares.

If the kidnapper used his 'kidnap' power, then the above would read (against a dwarf):

+12 vs Fortitude; 1d8+5 damage, and the Lost One kidnapper slides (up to) 4 squares, then slides the target (up to) 3 squares. The target must end its slide adjacent to the kidnapper's new position.

Plague already quoted the RC above (pg 212).

Also, the dwarf can choose not to reduce the forced movement if he so desires.