Executioner/Sorcerer Hybrid Idea...

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Yes I know this sounds like a weird/stupid idea but hear me out. 

I was playing with the CB when I saw a power I usually over look because I don't like playing melee casters. It's called Ensorcelled Blade, and it can be used as a melee basic attack. This allows the Executioner side of the hybrid use the Dex to hit and damage instead of the Cha, along with adding that lovely 1d8 it adds to melee basic attacks. On top of it, the Ensorcelled Blade states that if the creature you hit with the attack hits or misses you, it gets damaged by the spell source option damage again. Add White Lotus Riposte to the mix and if you are hit by the creature you can be dishing out 10 points of automatic out of turn damage as an incentive not to go attacking you. 

It's pretty much a one trick pony, as any powers you get from being a sorc aren't going to hit very well unless they are weapon attacks but it's still a neat idea I think. I hadn't seen a build like this before but maybe it's already been discussed. If it already has, would someone point me to the thread so I can see what was come up with for it?

Mine was built up to 3rd level and in a Dark Sun campaign with no magic items so I am sure you guys can think up the different magic items to add to make it better.

I think the builder put it at +10 to hit 1d6+11 (the builder lists +5 from Dex and +5 from Sorcerous Power and +1 from inherent bonus), 1d8, and if you added the Assassin's Strike it was another 2d10 and if you were attacked by the creature it would take 10 points of damage, and if it misses it takes 5 points


====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Mari, level 3
Human, Assassin (Executioner)/Sorcerer
Guild Attacks (Hybrid) Option: Red Scales (Hybrid)
Hybrid Assassin (Executioner) Option: Hybrid Executioner Fortitude
Sorcerous Power Option: Sorcerous Power Dexterity
Human Power Selection Option: Heroic Effort
Dark Sun, Inherent Bonuses

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 11, DEX 20, INT 8, WIS 10, CHA 14

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 11, DEX 18, INT 8, WIS 10, CHA 14


AC: 16 Fort: 13 Ref: 17 Will: 15
HP: 33 Surges: 6 Surge Value: 8

TRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +11, Bluff +8, Intimidate +8, Stealth +11

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +0, Athletics +1, Diplomacy +3, Dungeoneering +1, Endurance +1, Heal +1, History +0, Insight +1, Nature +1, Perception +1, Religion +0, Streetwise +3, Thievery +6

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Human Racial Power: Heroic Effort
Assassin Attack: Poisoned Dagger
Assassin Attack: Quick Lunge
Assassin Attack: Assassin's Strike
: Swap Daily For Poison Recipe
Sorcerer Attack 1: Ensorcelled Blade
Assassin Attack 1: Shadow Storm
Sorcerer Utility 2: Spatial Trip
Sorcerer Attack 3: Flame Spiral

FEATS
Level 1: White Lotus Riposte
Level 1: Mastery of Knives
Level 2: Light Blade Expertise

ITEMS
Dagger
Bloodroot Poison
Kukri
Katar x1
====== End ======


 

I think technically it's not a melee basic attack - it can just be used in place of one.
Eldritch Blast/Strike are the only powers that I know of which are worded with "Counts as"
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
"can be used as" is probably ok too. It's a little more iffy though.

Also, Character Builder still gives Hybrid Executioners the full Assassin's Strike power, rather than the hybrid version. So you should just be doing 1d10 with Assassin's Strike all throughout heroic, unless you take it more than once.
Yep. "In place of" language kills the whole idea.



Quick question: I realize that this is generally accepted, but does anyone know where in the rules the "in place of/as/is/counts as" distinction comes from?

Only asking because the CB (which I understand is not a rules source) thinks Attack Finesse does apply to Ensorceled Blade -- and somebody just programed that in in a recent update...made me curious to check where the generally accepted usage distinction actually comes from.
Reapers touch gives an MBA.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Forgive me for asking, but I am curious here! 

When a power lists something like:

You can use this power in place of a melee basic attack

Why am I seeing it saying that if you want, you can use this power as a melee basic attack whenever you want. Not if a warlord gives you an out of turn attack. Just if you want to, you have the option of subsituting this power for a melee basic attack whenever. It doesn't list a limit on the power.

Was there an official ruling on this, or are the ones listed in this thread just forum opinion? 
Because you can. If you can use a power in place of a basic attack, then whenever you could make a basic attack, you can instead use that power.


It doesn't become a basic attack though, because you're using the power instead of a basic attack, not as a basic attack. These are distinct and usually clearly dilineated wordings.
Oh Content, where art thou?
The best example I can come up with in my sleep deprived ramblings is like baking cookies. You can bake chocolate chip cookies, or in place of chocolate chips you can subsitute peanut butter chips, however by doing so they no longer qualify as 'chocolate chip cookies'.
If I recall WotC labors under the idea that "in place of" counts as "treat as" considering that is what their lackies have said and it seems that is what they programmed into the builder.  That is two parts that agree and we otherwise have not been told otherwise.  From what I have seen it is we that have decided that there is a distinction between the two (though I agree that is what it actually says).  It seems that WotC does not want to treat them differntly but then they should have written it the same every time.
It seems that WotC does not want to treat them differntly but then they should have written it the same every time.



This is what it looks like to me, too.
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