10/26/2011 BoaB: "Bad Moon Rising"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Building on a Budget, which goes live Wednesday morning on magicthegathering.com.

I don't normally make Werewolf decks...

When I finally do it'll probably look something like this one.
suppose only 27 cards in the deck are rare. and only  burn spells so its not burny. regenerates pretty sweet against doj. kinda wish they didnt make almost all the good cards rare but at least they arent mythic
This deck looks like fun, but considering how unbelievably straight forward this is, I'm not sure it needed a dedicated article.
Who wouldn't keep a starting hand of Mayor, Kruin, Instigator, Moonmist, Rootbound, 2 Mountain and a Forest? I mean besides people who play with a starting hand size of 7.
^this

And also,

"I kept Mayor of Avabruck, Kruin Outlaw, Instigator Gang, Moonmist, Rootbound Crag, 2 Mountain, and Forest. My opponent started off with a Llanowar Elves and passed the turn. I drew a Brimstone Volley, cast it, and passed the turn."

So on turn 1, you drew your ninth card, and played a 3 mana instant?!
Nice!

(proofreading anyone?)
Interesting deck. I had thoughts about making a Werewolf deck with Quicksilver Amulet to get creatures without casting spells, but did the math and couldn't make it competitive. (If I don't have creatures with CMC 4 or higher, I'm casting at a handicap, not counting spending a turn to cast the amulet...) I should have thought twice about just going all in with aggro.

Also, I'd suggest Shrine of Burning Rage in place of something, probably the Brimstone Volley. Removal without casting spells.

suppose only 27 cards in the deck are rare. and only  burn spells so its not burny. regenerates pretty sweet against doj. kinda wish they didnt make almost all the good cards rare but at least they arent mythic




$41.90 for the deck according to tcgplayer.com. That's not counting any land except for the Kessig Wolf Run, but then again I rounded up on the prices of everything else. I haven't checked the prices of winning decks recently, but that's less than a tenth the price of decks that were competitive in Standard four months ago, and it's probably still a small fraction of the price of more current decks.

The deck doesn't look like a budget deck, considering all those rares in it.  Somebody did the math in the forums and it's "only" $41.90.  Guess "budget" is a lot more flexible than it used to be.


The article seems to be more of a straightforward "let's play with werewolves" kind of deck than anything else.

I like Werewolfs and I think it's a super-cool mechanic.  But I echo other's sentiments.  There are only a handful of standard playable werewolfs and moonmist/full moon's rise are obvious choices as well.  Did an article really need to be made about it.  Also, as noted by others, there were a lot of errors.  I think the wins are more reflective of the holes in the standard decks atm and not the strength of werewolfs.  For example, Wolf Run decks aren't very interactive and spend their first four turns playing mana accel, so any deck that can win on turn 5, probably will.  SolarFlare has all sorts of problems, a lack of consistency, a lack of interactivity for a control deck, mana problems.  The two games it lost were due to a combination of mana problems and relying too much on DoJ. 
Not that I liked the deck (not a fan of straight forward decks), but if is exploits weaknesses in the top two decks and wins then why are you complaining?
Also, it a very budget deck for being able to beat very expensive decks.
Grow old or die trying.
My friend made a Werewolf deck fairly similar to this except he mainly used Red Sun's Zenith as his removal instead of Brimstone Volley.

Personally, I would put the volleys in SB, take out a Instigator Gang and maindeck 3 Stromkirk Nobles*.  This greatly increases the chance of having a killer one drop on turn one that the opponent has to deal with right away before it becomes a serious threat.

*yes, that would take it out of the realm of "budget", but would definitely make this deck more tournament viable imo; also, Noble doesn't care whether your opponent cast a spell on turn 1 (or 2 if you're on the draw).
I used to love Building on a Budget. Fun, inventive decks that you could build with the commons you have sitting around, that taught you how to build more decks with the other commons you have sittting around.

Now we build decks by picking every rare in a theme and adding 8 rare lands to manafix.

Why is fighting Standard more important than the budget in Building on a BUDGET?

Where has the budget gone? 
Who wouldn't keep a starting hand of Mayor, Kruin, Instigator, Moonmist, Rootbound, 2 Mountain and a Forest? I mean besides people who play with a starting hand size of 7.




^this

And also,

"I kept Mayor of Avabruck, Kruin Outlaw, Instigator Gang, Moonmist, Rootbound Crag, 2 Mountain, and Forest. My opponent started off with a Llanowar Elves and passed the turn. I drew a Brimstone Volley, cast it, and passed the turn."

So on turn 1, you drew your ninth card, and played a 3 mana instant?!
Nice!

(proofreading anyone?)



I noticed this as soon as I got to that game, stopped, looked at the card, went back to the match, and sat there confused for about 10 seconds. Then decided to point out yet ANOTHER error in a JVL article that makes the match look shopped.


Not that I liked the deck (not a fan of straight forward decks), but if is exploits weaknesses in the top two decks and wins then why are you complaining?
Also, it a very budget deck for being able to beat very expensive decks.



Implying that the "Kessig Wolf-Run" deck he played wasn't really mono-green Dauntless. This deck folds to the -real- kessig, because you have to face down 4 Slagstorms that heavily hamper your damage output. Don't expect to get lucky like JVL evidently did in his game, playing against a manascrewed control deck and a midrange deck of questionable quality. That said, if we get more solid werewolves in the next two sets (which wouldn't surprise me) then werewolves will become a serious deck to beat. 

 

(at)MrEnglish22

He's just taking advantage of the fact that the Standard Meta is open. A deck like this is surprisingly competitive compared to most of the budget junk that comes out of the article. Some decks while fun are barely worth getting past the kitchen table.

The deck would be more "budget" if the copperlines were out though.

What I don't understand is people complaining about a 1 dollar rare being 'out of budget'.

The Column is not called "Weekly Pauper Deck Building Tips". If the rare is worth 50 cents why can't you use it?

If he made a deck using nervermore would you call that budget? the card is worth 2 bucks at best. He's also talking about trade value as well. It would be easier for me to trade for a Mayor card at a 4 dollar value than buy it at a 5 dollar value. Though I agree 4 copies of the Mayor is what is pushing the price of this deck.

But without the Mayor the deck just plain blows. It's one of those things where every other card in this deck is budget but it doesn't work without the mayor.


I would take out the instigators though. Or something else for triumph of the hordes. A friend of mine plays a version of this with triumph of the hordes. That card is secret tech and wins out of nowhere, definitely room for 2-4 copies in here.
According to everyone on these forums. You should only play the best decks in whatever format you want. You are a bad player and should just quit if you intend on using anything else.
Unlike most people I know and play with/against I like to make block format decks and as such made my own werewolf deck as my innistrad block deck. the decklist was quite simalar to the one posted this week with a few differences. I dont quite have 4 instigators but instead I runn 2 overrun to make up for it. I also use blasphemous act, an odd choice i realize but my friends and I like to play multiplayer games not just 1 on 1 so the board wipe is never a bad thing especially when you can simply bring them back by sacking full moon rise. I also threw a nice big tree of redemption in for giggles as well as a necronomicon (grimoir of the dead).

I have yet to try the deck in a tounament but have found with the few 1 v 1 games I have played that the deck is quite potent. my opponents are always grinding their teeth trying to decide whether to cast a spell that is far more usefull late game but hate seeing my werewolfs transform and cast it anyway. watching my opponent squirm is always fun.

as for people whining about the deck being junk without mayors, I will have to disagree. many a game I have played where a mayor never reaches the field and I still trounce my opponent. dont be afraid to use village ironsmith either, sure a 1/1 first strike for 2 mana isn't great compared to other choices but when together with its werewolf bretheren it becomes a force to be reconed with.

I look forward to the werewolfs coming in this blocks expasions and hope they dont become neglected like allys were at the end of zendikar

(edit) to all those players that like to use sleeves I recomend still using the proxy cards and either keeping the actual card off to the side or pick up some clear sleeves for them. Having to take your cards in and out of their sleeves so often tends to reek havoc on them both. the sleeves I used were not the best quality I will admit, but after having to replace 8 sleeves in just a few games it became pretty clear what I should do (alot of transforming goes on in multiplayer games I found out :P plus it take alot of time to tranform your werewolfs if you have multiple of them out on the board sliding them in and out of sleeves)
Echoing what others have said:

- Too obvious: what with there being so few werewolves and werewolf cards, pretty much every werewolf deck will look like the one featured in the article. The mayor, instigator gang, kruin pass, moonmist, full moon's rise, waif, daybreak ranger and some burn spells. Very little room for creativity there. No-brainers aren't worth mentioning because they're well... friggin' obvious.

- There are too few featured games. This seems to happen quite a lot. Playing against two to three different decks and passing judgment on an entire decklist seems hasty.


The deck would be more "budget" if the copperlines were out though.

What I don't understand is people complaining about a 1 dollar rare being 'out of budget'.

The Column is not called "Weekly Pauper Deck Building Tips". If the rare is worth 50 cents why can't you use it?

I can't speak for everyone, but the reason I find the decks in this article to not be budget has nothing to do with the price on individual rares (well, sometimes it does, like when he runs Inkmoth Nexus for example) but the sheer quantity of rares. Yes, a dollar a card isn't much in the grand scheme of things, but when you run 20+ rares at a dollar a piece, it adds up. Also, some of the uncommons he runs from time to time are more expensive than many rares! Last week he ran Tezzeret's Gambits, which are $2 a piece, and Invisible Stalkers are over $1 as well. And then there were the Dismembers. It adds up.
The deck isn't not budget because of price on a card-by-card basis; a few pricier cards are fine. It's not budget because the overall price of the deck is too high.
IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/c6f9e416e5e0e1f0a1e5c42b0c7b3e88.jpg?v=90000)
I'm a midrange player at heart and RG is my favorite combination, so I can't get mad at the deck. Even when it is obvious, it's useful to me to see how it performs before deciding whether to acquire the cards or not.

As for rares, there can't be direct comparison with previous BoaB articles. As bad as the smaller set size and mythics are, it's true than no regular rares are quite easier to get than before: most current rares could be compared with power uncommons of the past such as Shriekmaw so a deck of Shriekmaws isn't really that expensive.

Of course, what it's impossible to defend are the game log inconsistencies: really, show some respect to the readers by reviewing your column, those mistakes have no excuses. And I echo the sentiment that more game logs would be nice. Don't fear long articles, they are welcome.
If Limited gets in the way of printing good Constructed cards... Screw limited
BoaB used to be the article that I looked forward to every week. I don't even mind the $40 price tag on this particular deck.

What gets me is that every week it's some deck used to play against standard and I hate it.

Does he realize that at least half the players out there aren't looking to build decks against standard?
People need to realize that BoaB is intended to be a competitive Spike-oriented column, just one for those trying to break into competitive play for the first time. Most people do that in Standard. If you're interested in fun casual columns, then take a look at the Lab or Serious Fun. That's what those columns are for.
After attending the prerelease and release parties then trading (I dont trade well). This deck cost me $10 to make. 2 of those dollars were for the sleeves (yes wearwolf art sleeves).


My only issue with this article is that it had 0 thought put into it. Wizards made this deck for you all you had to do was sleeve it up and play.
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For those of you knocking the deck for being unoriginal, and the article for closing with "happy brewing," I present this. Remember his version of the Lolaphant deck? I saw that article, went "awesome!" and immediately went and made this:magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=...
After this bombed to caw and i wasn't getting the tokens I needed, I went to This:magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=... and played RUG rather than GUW. This was my deck until I saw Fresh meat and thought: YES. That version of the deck is HERE:magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=...
That ended up totally bombing to aggro, and I invariably drew two aggro matchups each 3 round tournament.
I traded for slagstorms, updated the deck futher, took out the jaces, and came up with this final: magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=...
I freely admit that I wouldn't have thought of the original deck without seeing the van lunen article, but I turned the entire deck into something of my own design. I never placed exceptionally, but i never really bombed either.
By the way, you can spot my response to caw-blade rotating in then out in the decks. That was rather funny.
I've often thought that JVL cheats when he makes his game examples.  Ever notice that he always seems to have either 3 or 4 lands in the first two mulls.  Seriously though, did you even read it before you submitted, 8 cards and a 3-drop on turn one.  That isn't how magic works.