10/25/2011 SF: "Hording all the Fun"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Serious Fun, which goes live Tuesday morning on magicthegathering.com.

I made my horde deck wbr with an assortment of different monsters. I made sure to include lots of enchantment and artifact sweepers to get rid of all the pesky Powerstone Minefields. I went with a 65 monster horde, though.

Does the horde benefit from imperviousness to loss of life spells? I was planning on gunning it down witha  massive Tendrils of Agony and I wasn't sure of it.
I have every intention of making a Sliver Horde deck and it will be impossible :p
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It seems to me that elves and goblins should be on the list. C'mon man. lol
As I chose the last poll option, lemme say id either like to see ooze tokens with p/t equal to the number of oozes and/or saprolings in a super doubling season (and maybe thallid filled?) Green overrun deck. Green horde sounds like fun to me. I get sick of black=evil badguy. Horde of oozes is even scarier imo
Squirrels!!!!!!!

I have every intention of making a Sliver Horde deck and it will be impossible :p


Oh snap, ultimate achievement.


Myr Horder FTW



Squirrels!!!!!!!

OMFG YES!!
One word: Samurai.  I know I'm breaking all the conventions of the format since I'll have to make my own tokens and that makes me a terrible person blah blah blah but you have to admit fighting a horde of samurai would be AWESOME. 

Also a Horde horde deck playing all the hordes in magic.  Don't worry, I'll figure out how.
I would like to face the one and only true horde...Slivers!
I'd want to battle Slivers. I don't know if only 50 tokens is too little, and they're only 1/1s, but Slivers get insane. They are my most hated tribe. Plus they're one of Magic's iconic, unique tribes. They're perfect for this variant!
Can you use X spells in Horde? If so, how do they work, because I want to create a cat horde deck- Go Kitty Cannon!!

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Heh, and here I was thinking my Slivers idea was creative. Eldrazi would also make for some nice gameplay, with a very powerful horde (though it would need the full set of Broodmothers). You'd get bonus points for Squirrels and Oozes.

I also actually liked reading about the third game. The first two were a tad boring, but the third was cool.
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Zindaras' meta is like a fossil, ancient and its secrets yet to be uncovered. Only men of yore, long dead, knew of it.
Goblins would be flavourful. plenty of cards to make that quite a nasty horde deck. Having haste on all creatures fits a little better here.

i'd really like to see illusions done. there was some love for illusions in m12 and we have the 2/2 token from summoner's bane available.

I guess people should impose their own banning list for playgroups, for example, lightmine field could severly limit player interaction -__- 
One word: Samurai.  I know I'm breaking all the conventions of the format since I'll have to make my own tokens and that makes me a terrible person blah blah blah but you have to admit fighting a horde of samurai would be AWESOME. 

Also a Horde horde deck playing all the hordes in magic.  Don't worry, I'll figure out how.


An easy modification to the format to allow tribes that don't have printed tokens (or just to avoid having to round up lots of tokens) is to designate some subset of creatures (such as all common creatures or all creatures with CMC 3 or less) to count as the "tokens".
One word: Samurai.  I know I'm breaking all the conventions of the format since I'll have to make my own tokens and that makes me a terrible person blah blah blah but you have to admit fighting a horde of samurai would be AWESOME. 

Also a Horde horde deck playing all the hordes in magic.  Don't worry, I'll figure out how.


An easy modification to the format to allow tribes that don't have printed tokens (or just to avoid having to round up lots of tokens) is to designate some subset of creatures (such as all common creatures or all creatures with CMC 3 or less) to count as the "tokens".



That's a thought.  Maybe the samurai token would be Devoted Retainer?  Definitely worth considering for tribes that don't have tokens.
Another cool group with a token would be Minions, except that a TON of them require you to make choices, with activated abilities, echo and life paying ETB abilities.  If there was a mind behind the deck it might work but in the current format it wouldn't work.  Which is sad because flipping a bunch of 1/1 minion tokens and then slamming a Phage the Untouchable with haste would be joyful.
I went and made a Zombie horde deck just after the original article was published and it took a while before it started shaping up. I can see now why the deck needs so many tokens as I did not have enough until now. We were playing it with 46 tokens but it wasn't fast enough or good enough to really kill me and a friend. It now has 58 tokens and it is a lot better but my Tempered Steel deck seems to still cause this deck problems when its has a partner to battle the horde. We even took the deck to this "hard mode" mentioned many times prior and Tempered Steel just kinda said to hell with the horde. Same thing could be said of my standard Goblin deck. On turn four I had a Goblin Arsonist, 6 goblin tokens and a Goblin Chieftain swinging and making the horde cry while my partner blocked the incomming horde. 


The plan is to change out some of the cards in the horde to make it a little more difficult to handle and adding things like Noxious Ghoul, Grave storm, or Cruel Revival. Even with 3 Vengful Pharaoh, 4 smallpox, 3 endless ranks of the dead, and two grave titans it is still loseing the war on the living.       
i would like to see an ooze-horde crawling and rolling up!
I'm very happy that solo/coop variant of MTG is now available. I was considering purchaseing The Lord of the Rings LCG by FFG but I've believed that Magic is overall a lot better game and I stayed with MTG. It was a good decision. Horde Magic is another example of versatility of this game.
I'd be interested in Illusions or allies as the horde deck. Both have some flavor and totally different effects. Furthermore oozes seem interesting to me (although the best ooze in my opinion (Necrotic Ooze) can't be used). Mitotic Slime, Gutter Grime (although it isn't too good...)...
I love the idea of Elemental tokens, mainly because they're so diverse. My token stack has 4/4 white elementals, 4/4 green elementals, 1/1 red elementals, 3/1 red elementals, 5/5 red and blue elementals, and probably some I've forgotten. It'd make for an awesome and interesting horde, although their sizes are probably large enough that you'd want fewer than 50 tokens in the horde deck.
all hail the Sheep horde.
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Personally, I'd like to try this:

4 Ball Lightning
96 Spark Elemental

Given that Spark Elemental counts as a legitimate token (a la Sparkspitter), the deck is perfectly legal. THERE WOULD BE NO SURVIVORS.

My friends and I tried a horde deck based on my existing Jund Devour deck, using lands as tokens. Having to roll dice for every decision quickly became a nuisance, as there were a significant number of cards with devour (Dragon Broodmother was particularly annoying, since it churns out a dragon token with devour each upkeep, so we were constantly having to roll to see if it devoured, and how many creatures it chose to devour).

Also, we found that the three turn bubble was too easy for us to build up a sufficient force to withstand the horde. The three turn start bubble works very well for singleton decks (such as commander decks), but for normal decks, it might be more fun and challenging without a three turn safety net.

All in all, I love the horde variant. Keep the ideas coming!
One word: Samurai.



Kill Bill comes to mind.
Slivers
Goblins
I'd be interested in Illusions or allies as the horde deck. Both have some flavor and totally different effects. Furthermore oozes seem interesting to me (although the best ooze in my opinion (Necrotic Ooze) can't be used). Mitotic Slime, Gutter Grime (although it isn't too good...)...



Ooze horde would be great.  You kill one and it splits into two.  Kill those two and they each split into two more.  Seems even more relentless than endless ranks of the dead.  Add Doubling Season and Gutter Grime (maybe make a change to the gutter grime to include token creatures for added fun) and it would be quite a challenge.


Or how about a spider horde (Arachnus Spinner, Spider Spawning, and lots of copies of Arachnus Web)?
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I gotta say, I'm pretty surprised that goblins are absent from this list.  While I'm pretty sure there aren't any tokens for them out there, I think fighting a Horde of ninjas would be pretty fun.  Although, they're not really cohesive as a tribe for something like this...
A Horde of Angels is pretty unsurvivable... Perhaps a Horde of Soldiers to fight a war with?
I thought my idea for a Ninja horde would be unique, but someone already suggested Samurai (and in fact, someone already beat me to suggesting Ninjas).  Samurai would probably work better since the Ninja horde would want to be based around evasion and unblockability, which might not be fun to play against.

Jund horde seems like it would be rather flavorful, but having to roll dice to see what gets devoured is a problem.  Maybe you could rule that whenever something with devour comes into play, it just automatically devours any tokens that entered the battlefield under the horde's control that turn?

I wonder if a Naya horde could work, too?  It might be fun to build hordes themed around certain planes.  In fact, that sounds like it would simulate exploring planes even better than Planechase...

Elves and Goblins seem like obvious choices, so I can see why they'd be excluded from the poll.  Slivers and Allies seem like good choices too, but perhaps a bit too powerful?  Oozes and Spiders are other hordes I wouldn't have thought of--it seems Spiders are getting a lot of love in M12, though.

How's this for something more esoteric: a land horde!  The theme of Zendikar was supposed to be "the land comes to life and attacks you," right?  You could use basic lands as the "tokens" (they'd count as 1/1 creatures) with stuff like the Genju cards supporting them.  I dunno how well it'd play, though...
Da Bears :P
Why can't we have a desktop wallpaper of the Horrible Horde artwork yet? Ian Miller's art was so cool.
My friends and I tried a variant of this that I'm throwing out there in case anyone's interested. Since two of our 60 card decks were easily able to take out the horde, we tried flipping 1 card from the horde turn one, 2 cards on turn two, 2 cards on turn three, etc. After the horde emptied, we shuffled its graveyard back together and kept going. It was fun to see how far we could get, but flipping 38 cards a turn got boring pretty fast. Also, interactions like milling myself until I had 1 card and casting black sun's zenith every turn felt unfair and made the game boring (this happened in both variants). To anyone trying out horde magic: make sure you use an EDH deck. The singleton randomness makes the game more interesting.

I don't post much anymore. 

How about a horde based on the tokens from Bestial Menace?

I want to do a green creature token deck, with a theme based on the art and/or text of Horde of Notions and Doubling Chant.
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Kingdom of Heaven Horde

I got to thinking the Angel Hoard could be done. It doesn't need too many. I mean 25 tokens is probably enough. 50 would probably be too much. But I also want to throw in a bunch of Soldiers and call the whole thing the Kingdom of Heaven Hoard. Where the ideas is you and friends for whatever reason happen into the celestial plane and get swarmed by a ton of Angel outsiders (the same happens in D&D, except there are Elementals, Demons, etc.).

Army of God

The various Soldiers added on top could be the Army of God and could have appropriate soldier support as well.

To balance it out, I think the spells should have a weaker influence than the tokens. I think the celestial plane you're fighting should have numerous types of Walls to block you from hopes of winning while a trickle of sick tokens plop out to greet you on the offense. The Walls would obviously have to stay back (having Defender) and bar your way to the center of the Kingdom, where vanquishing its hoard and its Rulers would end in making you the kings of it all, or whatever flavor you want to go with.

Specific Spell Support

The rest of the drops I think would be the aforementioned soldier support, and a bunch of various white creature, angel, and Defender support cards.

I mentioend the Rulers, I think there should definitely be a big Angel to have to kill eventually, like Reya Dawnbringer, or Akroma. A Final Boss, so to speak.

The deck would be multicolored, too, which is a good thing. You can't simply hose it when there are Angels, Soldiers, and Walls, of many different Colors. Not to mention the possibility of removal that wipes all hose artifacts/enchantments.
Homarids! But seriously slivers would be next to impossible.
1 of each of the following:
Sliver Legion
Might Sliver
Heart Sliver
Horned Sliver
Talon Sliver
Winged Sliver
Crystalline Sliver
Spined Sliver
Toxin Sliver
Sidewinder Sliver
Pulmonic Sliver
Quick Sliver
Two-Headed Sliver
Bonesplitter Sliver
Fury Sliver
Spinneret Sliver
Root Sliver
Brood Sliver
Venser's Sliver
Metallic Sliver
Opaline Sliver
Ghostflame Sliver
Harmonic Sliver
Spitting Sliver
Synchronous Sliver
Battering Sliver
Reflex Sliver
Lymph Sliver
Frenzy Sliver

2 of each of the following:
Muscle Sliver
Sinew Sliver
Plated Sliver
Blade Sliver
Watcher Sliver
Bone-Splitter Sliver

And 60 1/1 Sliver Tokens

I omitted any Sliver with an ability that you pay mana for, as that would get out of hand with the Horde's infinite mana. Also any abilities that targeted I left out (excluding Harmonic Sliver) to avoid having to much random rolling.
I love the idea of Elemental tokens, mainly because they're so diverse. My token stack has 4/4 white elementals, 4/4 green elementals, 1/1 red elementals, 3/1 red elementals, 5/5 red and blue elementals, and probably some I've forgotten. It'd make for an awesome and interesting horde, although their sizes are probably large enough that you'd want fewer than 50 tokens in the horde deck.


This^

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From Mark Rosewater's Tumblr: the0uroboros asked: How in the same set can we have a hexproof, unsacrificable(not a word) creature AND a land that makes it uncounterable. How does this lead to interactive play? I believe I’m able to play my creature and you have to deal with it is much more interactive than you counter my creature.

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Post #777

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MaRo: One of the classic R&D stories happened during a Scars of Mirrodin draft. Erik Lauer was sitting to my right (meaning that he passed to me in the first and third packs). At the end of the draft, Erik was upset because I was in his colors (black-green). He said, "Didn't you see the signals? I went into black-green in pack one." I replied, "Didn't you see my signals? I started drafting infect six drafts ago."

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MaRo: I redesigned him while the effect was on the stack.

Very interesting idea, but it doesnt seem like it would play well with wrath effects.   THe horde seems to have the issue of snowballing that most tribal decks have -- good players will keep the numbers in check, so the horde can't snowball out of control (and snowballing out of control is a good thing, fun-wise).

I imagine sweepers are kind of gamebreaking one way or the other.  What about a horde which gets to cast twice a turn, with a reduced number of tokens, but also a lot of mass-reanimation effects (Patriarch's Bidding, etc.), and cards that feed off the graveyard, such as Lhurgoyf, Mortivore, Bonehoard, etc.  This would scale gameplay, as more players feed Lhurgoyf effects, and as the players get closer to victory, it becomes more difficult.  Also a double-casting would ensure fewer under or overwhelming flips of too few or too many tokens.

A rule that the Horde's graveyard can't be exiled may need to be implemented for this to work, though. 
Homarids! But seriously slivers would be next to impossible. 1 of each of the following: Sliver Legion Might Sliver Heart Sliver Horned Sliver Talon Sliver Winged Sliver Crystalline Sliver Spined Sliver Toxin Sliver Sidewinder Sliver Pulmonic Sliver Quick Sliver Two-Headed Sliver Bonesplitter Sliver Fury Sliver Spinneret Sliver Root Sliver Brood Sliver Venser's Sliver Metallic Sliver Opaline Sliver Ghostflame Sliver Harmonic Sliver Spitting Sliver Synchronous Sliver Battering Sliver Reflex Sliver Lymph Sliver Frenzy Sliver 2 of each of the following: Muscle Sliver Sinew Sliver Plated Sliver Blade Sliver Watcher Sliver Bone-Splitter Sliver And 60 1/1 Sliver Tokens I omitted any Sliver with an ability that you pay mana for, as that would get out of hand with the Horde's infinite mana. Also any abilities that targeted I left out (excluding Harmonic Sliver) to avoid having to much random rolling.



Ouch. This would be very deadly.  It seems a few wouldn't make sense with the way the "dummy" deck is played (for instance Quick Sliver with flash) but still, it would be quite the challenge.  It's seems that it's the way Slivers were meant to be played.
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Another cool group with a token would be Minions, except that a TON of them require you to make choices, with activated abilities, echo and life paying ETB abilities.  If there was a mind behind the deck it might work but in the current format it wouldn't work.  Which is sad because flipping a bunch of 1/1 minion tokens and then slamming a Phage the Untouchable with haste would be joyful.

You do realize that if the horde played Phage they would lose, right? The horde plays the top card of the library, not from your hand.
Another cool group with a token would be Minions, except that a TON of them require you to make choices, with activated abilities, echo and life paying ETB abilities.  If there was a mind behind the deck it might work but in the current format it wouldn't work.  Which is sad because flipping a bunch of 1/1 minion tokens and then slamming a Phage the Untouchable with haste would be joyful.

You do realize that if the horde played Phage they would lose, right? The horde plays the top card of the library, not from your hand.