More Pixie Questions: Pixies and Weapons

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So, when Pixies wield tiny weapons, they follow the same rules as small creatures. Shrink states that shrunken weapons are wileded as one handed improvised weapons by non-tiny creatures. Does this mean that, in addition to following the same limitations as small creatures when wielding a weapon of their size, Pixie's can also wield shrunken weapons as a one handd improvised weapon?
So, when Pixies wield tiny weapons, they follow the same rules as small creatures. Shrink states that shrunken weapons are wileded as one handed improvised weapons by non-tiny creatures. Does this mean that, in addition to following the same limitations as small creatures when wielding a weapon of their size, Pixie's can also wield shrunken weapons as a one handd improvised weapon?



Pixies = Tiny creatures.
Shrunken Weapon = Weapon of appropriate size for Tiny creature.
Shrunken Weapon = One-Handed Improvised Weapon for Non-Tiny creatures.

Pixies wield Shrunken Weapons following the same rules as Small characters.

A Pixie, as a Tiny Creature, does not wield Shrunken Weapons as One-Handed Improvised Weapons.
No.  You really answered your own question honestly.  Shrink, when used on a weapon, shrinks to weapon to an appropriate size for the pixie(thus tiny).  The difference being it keeps the same damage dice.  But for NON-TINY CREATURES, a shrunk weapon becomes a one handed improvised weapon.  So again, no.  Pixies are tiny, thus they do not qualify for "Non-tiny creatures".

Basically, how it works for pixies and weapons is that normally they can only wield tiny weapons, doing likewise less melee damage than any other race by default, since they not only wield tiny weapons but also have to follow the same weapon rules as small creatures; thus no 2 handed weapons, and versatile weapons must be wielded 2 handed.

With Shrink, it gives the pixies the option to take a normal sized say longsword and shrink it down to an appropriate tiny size size for them to wield without changing the damage the sword does.  Now wielding a weapon that has been shrunk, basically means the pixie can do melee damage on equal terms with small creatures because even with Shrink they have to follow the same weapon rules.  So with Shrink they wield the exact same weapons as small creatures.  No more, no less.  So you wont have a pixie legally wielding a mordenkrad or some such.   
Pixies follow the small weapon rules.
Pixies must cast shrink on a weapon/armor to use it.
Shrunk weapons can't be used for non-pixies. 

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Pixies follow the small weapon rules.
Pixies must cast shrink on a weapon/armor to use it.
Shrunk weapons can't be used for non-pixies. 



Actually pixies use tiny weapons, they don't need to use Shrink on their weapons or armor to use if they don't want, they just get tiny weapons/armors.  And shrunk weapons can be used by non-tiny creatures as one handed improvised weapons. 
Pixies follow the small weapon rules.
Pixies must cast shrink on a weapon/armor to use it.
Shrunk weapons can't be used for non-pixies. 



Actually pixies use tiny weapons, they don't need to use Shrink on their weapons or armor to use if they don't want, they just get tiny weapons/armors.  And shrunk weapons can be used by non-tiny creatures as one handed improvised weapons. 

I don't see any tiny weapons in the compendium...

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Pixies follow the small weapon rules.
Pixies must cast shrink on a weapon/armor to use it.
Shrunk weapons can't be used for non-pixies. 



Actually pixies use tiny weapons, they don't need to use Shrink on their weapons or armor to use if they don't want, they just get tiny weapons/armors.  And shrunk weapons can be used by non-tiny creatures as one handed improvised weapons. 

I don't see any tiny weapons in the compendium...



Just use the chart in the PH(or if it's in Essentials, don't know) and down grade the damage die one.  Admittedly, a d4 weapon is the lowest...but no there are no weapons yet(if they have options in the Feywild book who knows) that have the tiny keyword.  But it says in their Wee Warrior they use weapons of their size, so it would be my assumption to use the chart to downgrade the weapon's damage for being smaller since by the PH you increase the damage die for it being larger.

The reason I'm going with that, is because otherwise the line in Wee Warrior about "wielding weapons of your size," is useless because they would actually in fact be wielding the exact same weapons as small creatures, who actually wield normal weapons w/in the bounds of certain rules(not accounting for ones with the small keyword).

Now of course, this could be that Wizards, in their wisdom released the race in preview without all the rules to clarify some of these things despite the fact that they should've known that once they released the race people would instantly snatch it up to play it and try it out.  And I would like to hazard the hope that unless they specifically spell out that "weapons of you size" for a pixie means to take the damage die chart and downgrade one(as makes logical sense, discounting d4 weapons), they give some tiny weapons for the pixie to use in the Feywild book.

So I guess in moderation I should say that you may or may not need to use Shrink to make a weapon wieldable to a pixie.  But Shrink still has nothing to do with armor, just buy/make tiny armor simple as that.  Technically speaking magical armor automatically accomodates for your size.

But in regards to weapons, I still maintain they wield tiny weapons that either just require a player to downgrade the damage or we don't have all the info and there'll be tiny weapons in the book.  Then they can also choose to use Shrink on weapons that are found, say in loot, and still usable for a pixie, to make it size appropriate with the niceness of not reducing the damage dice.  Otherwise, the whole section about shrinking weapons in Shrink is stupid, because then they should just say that pixies wield the same weapons as Small creatures and leave it as that only.  But then again, this Wizards so logic doesn't generally come into play.   
Pixies do not use tiny-sized weapons as per the weapons and size chart.  They use medium-sized weapons that they've used Shrink on.  Small creatures use medium-sized weapons too, by the way.

The entire point of Shrink is to not further penalize them for being Tiny than they already are for following the Small rules.

Pixies follow the small weapon rules.
Pixies must cast shrink on a weapon/armor to use it.
Shrunk weapons can't be used for non-pixies


Quoted for truth.  Really, it is this simple.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition

Then the Wee Warrior text, or part of it, is useless because there's no reason for it to say that the pixies wield weapons of their size if in fact they don't.  Mind you as I said, it's Wizards so anything is possible and I don't account them much common sense these days, personally speaking.  But even for them that seems a stupid thing because if they are already suppose to wield small weapons then that part of Shrink for weapons is really just pointless as well.  Then the text for Wee Warrior should just state "they wield small weapons".

Well until further rules, text, whatever come out I'll maintain they wield tiny weapons and just follow the same rules as small creatures do when wielding weapons, but it's clear this is particular thing is an issue that Wizards needs to clarify before the book is printed, hopefully in the book itself or an article AT LEAST.

But that doesn't change the fact that aside from weapons, Pixies do not need to use Shrink on armor to use.  There is absolutely nothing to this claim, plain and simple.  And non-pixies, thus non-tiny creatures, again can use shrunk weapons as one-handed improvised weapons as I've already pointed out.  So no, that really isn't "Quoted for truth".   

A Shrunk weapon is tiny.  They can't use weapons sized for Small creatures, because you can't use weapons larger than your size unless a specific exemption exists (which there is for Small creatures - they are explicitly stated as using weapons sized for Medium creatures).  Pixies can't use weapons sized for Small creatures for the same reason humans can't use weapons sized for Large creatures.  They have to Shrink them first.

Wee Warrior has that line because Pixies do use weapons of their size.  You're right in that if you separate Wee Warrior from Shrink, then it starts to not make sense.  But you shouldn't do that, the racial features are a package deal.  If you include all aspects of the set of features, it works together just fine.

You can use a rock as a one-handed improvised weapon.  You know what we mean when we say "can't be used for non-pixies" -  you don't get the damage die, you don't get the proficiency bonus, you don't get the properties, you don't get anything important about it.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition

Regardless though of what you Mand12 or Mellored mean or believe is meant by "Shrunk weapons can't be used by non-pixies" it should be clarified because as pointed out, if you just read that line it does technically give wrong information about the shrunk weapons.  That's my point, you may believe you know what's being said, and Mellored being the person who posted it here may know what he was meant when he typed it out, but the way it was presented could cause people to get the wrong idea unless they go read the power for themselves.

And I'm not separating Wee Warrior and Shrink at all, I'm looking at the entirety of the pixie racial features, powers included. 

The only thing I'm confused about is why this is confusing. Pixies are tiny.

From the Compendium entry on Weapons and Size:
"Creatures can’t use weapons designed for creatures larger than themselves."

So Pixies can only use weapons designed for tiny creatures, which means the typical medium sized weapons that most PCs use cannot be used by Pixies. But there are no weapons currently available fro tiny creatures, so they have to find a way to accomodate the tiny race. Instead of creating a set of new weapons only tinies can use, they made it so that they can use the same types of weapons small creatures can use.

From Wee Warrior:
"When wielding a weapon of your size, you follow the same rules that Small creatures do."

So a weapon of your size is a tiny weapon, and you can wield one-handed weapons, two-handed weapons with the small property, double weapons with the small property, and versatile weapons must be held in two hands and you get no damage bonus unless the weapon also has the small property.

From Shrink:
"The target shrinks to a size approrpiate for a tiny creature's use"

Now you have a weapon designed and appropriate for your size, and through the magic of Feywild, it's still just as effective as it's bigger cousins.
The only thing I'm confused about is why this is confusing. Pixies are tiny.

From the Compendium entry on Weapons and Size:
"Creatures can’t use weapons designed for creatures larger than themselves."

So Pixies can only use weapons designed for tiny creatures, which means the typical medium sized weapons that most PCs use cannot be used by Pixies. But there are no weapons currently available fro tiny creatures, so they have to find a way to accomodate the tiny race. Instead of creating a set of new weapons only tinies can use, they made it so that they can use the same types of weapons small creatures can use.

From Wee Warrior:
"When wielding a weapon of your size, you follow the same rules that Small creatures do."

So a weapon of your size is a tiny weapon, and you can wield one-handed weapons, two-handed weapons with the small property, double weapons with the small property, and versatile weapons must be held in two hands and you get no damage bonus unless the weapon also has the small property.

From Shrink:
"The target shrinks to a size approrpiate for a tiny creature's use"

Now you have a weapon designed and appropriate for your size, and through the magic of Feywild, it's still just as effective as it's bigger cousins.



My purpose of the OP was to see how this rules text:

When wielding a weapon of your size, you follow the same rules that Small creatures do.

Interacted with this one:

A shrunken weapon, however, becomes a one-handed improvised weapon for a non-tiny creature.

I can see now that they're not related if we rightfully interpret that the "same rules that small creatures {use}" refers to weapon rules.

And frankly, yes, these rules are confusing.



Well, when one of the interpretations is "pixies can't use weapons" I'm not sure why going with the other one which is "pixies can use weapons" is a hard decision.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
The only thing I'm confused about is why this is confusing. Pixies are tiny.

From the Compendium entry on Weapons and Size:
"Creatures can’t use weapons designed for creatures larger than themselves."

So Pixies can only use weapons designed for tiny creatures, which means the typical medium sized weapons that most PCs use cannot be used by Pixies. But there are no weapons currently available fro tiny creatures, so they have to find a way to accomodate the tiny race. Instead of creating a set of new weapons only tinies can use, they made it so that they can use the same types of weapons small creatures can use.

From Wee Warrior:
"When wielding a weapon of your size, you follow the same rules that Small creatures do."

So a weapon of your size is a tiny weapon, and you can wield one-handed weapons, two-handed weapons with the small property, double weapons with the small property, and versatile weapons must be held in two hands and you get no damage bonus unless the weapon also has the small property.

From Shrink:
"The target shrinks to a size approrpiate for a tiny creature's use"

Now you have a weapon designed and appropriate for your size, and through the magic of Feywild, it's still just as effective as it's bigger cousins.



My purpose of the OP was to see how this rules text:

When wielding a weapon of your size, you follow the same rules that Small creatures do.

Interacted with this one:

A shrunken weapon, however, becomes a one-handed improvised weapon for a non-tiny creature.

I can see now that they're not related if we rightfully interpret that the "same rules that small creatures {use}" refers to weapon rules.




I suppose I can see how it might be confusing because of the the number of references to 'weapon' in both the race profile and the Shrink power.

But the line in Wee Warrior states fully: "When wielding a weapon of your size, you follow the same rules that Small creatures do." This must refer to weapon rules as it specifically is talking about wielding weapons. Understand I am not trying to force what's wrong or right, only to state why I got where I did with my interpretation. Really, the line about improvised weapons can basically be ignored for the Pixies. It only matters for the Dwarf who then picks up the shrunken Maul he loved so very much and cries stating that the whelp is too small to have a heart.

Overall, I think it's a clever design that basically allowed them to not create a whole new category of weapons that only tiny creatures can purchase. If they did not choose to do it this way, then perhaps they would have limited the Pixies to one-handed weapons and make it so they all rather versatile or not must be carried two-handed. This would be bad is it would limit the classes the Pixies could be in. Currently pixies and all other races can be in any class (even if they may not be effective, AFAIK there is nothing that would prevent any race from taking a class mechanically- thematically is another story).


When wielding a weapon of your size, you follow the same rules that Small creatures do.

Interacted with this one:

A shrunken weapon, however, becomes a one-handed improvised weapon for a non-tiny creature.


Well...  if there is ever another tiny race.  Pixies could shrink weapons for them.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

honestly I dont know why they jumped through hoops with the power and proporty, all they would need to say is "you are considered small for the purposes of using weapons" and it would amount to the same thing with less confusion
Insulting someones grammar on a forum is like losing to someone in a drag race and saying they were cheating by having racing stripes. Not only do the two things not relate to each other (the logic behind the person's position, and their grammar) but you sound like an idiot for saying it (and you should, because its really stupid )
In the 2009 April's Fools delve "Fool's Grove" there was a race of sentient squirrels (Kercpa) that carried "tiny bows".  What stats these weapons may have remains unknown.
Pixies follow the small weapon rules.
Pixies must cast shrink on a weapon/armor to use it.
Shrunk weapons can't be used for non-pixies. 



Actually pixies use tiny weapons, they don't need to use Shrink on their weapons or armor to use if they don't want, they just get tiny weapons/armors.  And shrunk weapons can be used by non-tiny creatures as one handed improvised weapons. 

I don't see any tiny weapons in the compendium...


Well, you can make tiny armor with enchant magic item at least.
"You can also use this ritual to resize magic armor (for example, shrink a fire giant’s magic armor to fit a halfling). There is no component cost for this use."

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Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
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Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

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Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
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I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
Pixies are Tiny. They use Tiny weapons, which have damage penalties as compared to Medium/Small weapons of the same type.

In fact, Pixies are on the extreme small end of Tiny, so they are subject to the same restrictions relative to Tiny weapons that Small creatures must live with relative to Medium weapons.

Pixies also have this Shrink power that lets them take a Medium/Small weapon and cause it to become Tiny - but bypasses the damage penalties. (Also works on non-weapon items. You can use it to stuff the Goliath's bedroll into the Gnome's backpack.)
"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
The weapons and size rules (PH pg. 220) only talk about sizing weapons up from the ones Medium and Small characters use.  It is notably silent about making weapons any smaller.  (Not to say that it's an unreasonable houserule, but it is a houserule.)

EDIT: At least, that's the current state of the rules.  Perhaps they'll address this piece of crunch in the souce book that adds the Tiny PC race (i.e. Heroes of the Feywild).

Returned from hiatus; getting up to speed on 5e rules lawyering.

The weapons and size rules (PH pg. 220) only talk about sizing weapons up from the ones Medium and Small characters use.  It is notably silent about making weapons any smaller.  (Not to say that it's an unreasonable houserule, but it is a houserule.)


Step one: Pool party resources towards tiny vorpal dagger.
Step two: ?
Step three: profit. 
:33 

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
honestly I dont know why they jumped through hoops with the power and proporty, all they would need to say is "you are considered small for the purposes of using weapons" and it would amount to the same thing with less confusion



At which point a Pixy Fighter could wield a full-sized bastard sword.

(Which is, I admit, KIND OF AWESOME)
Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
honestly I dont know why they jumped through hoops with the power and proporty, all they would need to say is "you are considered small for the purposes of using weapons" and it would amount to the same thing with less confusion



At which point a Pixy Fighter could wield a full-sized bastard sword.

(Which is, I admit, KIND OF AWESOME)



They effectively do, since it keeps its weight, proficiency, and damage die ... but no, it's better when it's tiny.
The weapons and size rules (PH pg. 220) only talk about sizing weapons up from the ones Medium and Small characters use.  It is notably silent about making weapons any smaller.  (Not to say that it's an unreasonable houserule, but it is a houserule.)


Step one: Pool party resources towards tiny vorpal dagger.
Step two: ?
Step three: profit. 



Vorpal can't go on Daggers.  A Falchion does d4s, but probably shrinks through a d6 or something first.
Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
honestly I dont know why they jumped through hoops with the power and proporty, all they would need to say is "you are considered small for the purposes of using weapons" and it would amount to the same thing with less confusion



At which point a Pixy Fighter could wield a full-sized bastard sword.

(Which is, I admit, KIND OF AWESOME)



They effectively do, since it keeps its weight, proficiency, and damage die ... but no, it's better when it's tiny.



It has *stats* like a full-sized bastard sword, but it's sized for the pixy.  It's not a weapon 10 times as tall as the character.
Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
Whilst we're on the subject of pixies and weapons, I was wondering whether a ranged weapon affected by the Shrink power would be able to fire regular-sized ammunition, or Shrunk ammunition, or both?

It just occurred to me that if a pixie needs to shrink all his arrows, that's going to take quite some time at one arrow every five minutes - and he'd better be sure he's wearing his quiver overnight or he'll have it all to do again. On the other hand, if he has to fire medium-sized arrows,  he's going to be flying around wearing a quiver that's taller than he is.
Whilst we're on the subject of pixies and weapons, I was wondering whether a ranged weapon affected by the Shrink power would be able to fire regular-sized ammunition, or Shrunk ammunition, or both?

It just occurred to me that if a pixie needs to shrink all his arrows, that's going to take quite some time at one arrow every five minutes - and he'd better be sure he's wearing his quiver overnight or he'll have it all to do again. On the other hand, if he has to fire medium-sized arrows,  he's going to be flying around wearing a quiver that's taller than he is.



The thing is, everyone's under the assumption that the Pixie will be required to shrink every weapon/implement/ammo.  Now some DMs may be this way, I think it would be a fair assumption that a normal, understanding DM would make it possible to purchase ammo crafted for Tiny sized creatures.  I mean at least I think that way, maybe I'm wrong but it seems an outrageous idea to force the Pixie to shrink every bit of equipment even if it only takes 5 min to recharge Shrink.

That being said, I personally would consider a quiver of arrows/bolts, etc. to be one item and use Shrink to shrink the lot.  But that's an interpretation and that would again be something up to the DM. 
Yes, we're under the assumption that the Pixie won't be completely unfairly punished for being a weapon class.  We're under the assumption that because rules exist for Pixies to use the same weapons as everybody else, that they will actually do so because not doing so completely destroys the balance of the race among potential classes.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
honestly I dont know why they jumped through hoops with the power and proporty, all they would need to say is "you are considered small for the purposes of using weapons" and it would amount to the same thing with less confusion



At which point a Pixy Fighter could wield a full-sized bastard sword.

(Which is, I admit, KIND OF AWESOME)



They effectively do, since it keeps its weight, proficiency, and damage die ... but no, it's better when it's tiny.



It has *stats* like a full-sized bastard sword, but it's sized for the pixy.  It's not a weapon 10 times as tall as the character.



Right. The only thing that changes is the size.

This is my first question here, but everything else I've ever been curious about, someone else was curious about first. Anyways, there's a real basic clerification that i think is important.

The pixie special rules for weapons says, you cannot use a two handed weapon unless it has the smal property.

then the pixie shrink ability says, the target shrinks to a size appropriate for a tiny creature's use. 

now my question is, does a size appropriate for a tiny creature = tiny property. And if, so does that satisfy the small property requirement for two-handed weapons.

I am asking for my pixie ninja and his kusari-gama use.

thanks 
 A kusari-gama is a double weapon, not a two-handed weapon. This is an important distinction.

 Double weapons are useable by Small creatures because, according to the rules for double weapons, they're considered to be wielding a one-handed weapon in each hand, not a two-handed weapon. (A double weapon actually needs to have the Stout property to be considered a two-handed weapon.)

 So a pixie or halfling could use a double scimitar just as easily as using a pair of regular scimitars...



( Also, fyi, it's much better to start a new thread or post in the Simple Questions thread than dig up a year-old thread...)

Show

I am the Magic Man.

(Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.)

 

I am the Lawnmower Man.

(I AM GOD HERE!)

 

I am the Skull God.

(Koo Koo Ka Choo)

 

There are reasons they call me Mad...

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