So, I hear 5E is in the works...

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At least I have my proper avatar now, I guess. But man is this cloud dark.
It's a whole lot of      
It's apparently corroborated by Margaret Weis on the Dragonlance forums.  Of course, it'll undoubtedly spend a year or three in development hell, but it was inevitable.
At least I have my proper avatar now, I guess. But man is this cloud dark.
which is still alot of bs,
mrs weis is respectable, but I cant say about her source is reliable 
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
It's apparently corroborated by Margaret Weis on the Dragonlance forums.  Of course, it'll undoubtedly spend a year or three in development hell, but it was inevitable.



Not a reliable source. If it was in production, anyone who knows about it would be under NDA. The friend of a friend of a friend heard it from Monte bit is bull. Monte would have violated that NDA. 

They may be in a pre production stage, but that would probably last about 2 years or so before going into full production for another 2-3 years, which would put us at 8 years. That was the lifetime of the previous edition. 
Actually it's true. 5th edition has been in development since 1974.

It's current release date is not officially confirmed, so just consider it as scheduled to be released "when it's finished."
i doubt that with all the recent expendatures in support for 4e (CB, encounters seasons, lair assault) i do not think that 5e is coming around anytime soon, it will one day come out and the game will evolve as always, which is not a bad thing.

However, i hear whispers of 4e books that they plan to release in 2013 and i am aware of the 3rd lair assault having been playtested so even if it is in pre production it is still a ways off because it would make no sense to spend the money on these without giving the book and DDI product a sufficient amount of time to generate revenue.

if WOtC confirmed a single rumor of 5e preproduction (even if its 5 years off) they will devalue 4th edition, diehard 4e fans will boycott the last new 4e books, casual players will save their money for the release of 5e and the company will have to drop everything in a mad dash to get a buyable product on the shelves and no doubt a company like paizo will make a 4e version of pathfinder to cash in on the diehards. 

every company needs to know what will be on the shelves in 5 years, 10 years and 20 years, and no doubt they have plans for 5th or even 6th editon,

if you have been reading formerly mike mearls' currently monte cooks tuesday column you will see a trend as they have discussed the past, present and future of the game of D&D and table top RPGs in general. they have added a comment area where we can go and talk about the idea and a poll to see what is good bad or ugly, i feel that this is pre market research for what they will do in 5e, like a rough sketch of what they need to start working on this anicdotal evidance is useful to them as it may present a point of view they have not thought of before and i am glad that they at least have an ear out there. 

the sky is not falling yet, but even if it does and they cancel all of that stuff and announce 5e tomarrow, ill probably take a good look and see what we got, it will be a hot topic of conversation i know that much!  
Not a reliable source. If it was in production, anyone who knows about it would be under NDA. 



Information has been leaked about a number of WotC projects before release regardless of NDA in the past. Not a clue about this particular case, but if Weiss trusts the source of information, I'm rather inclined to believe her.
Shemeska the Marauder, Freelancer 5 / Yugoloth 10
This seems to be an interesting bit of news.

Personally, i view 5th Ed as a very positive thing. It's a chance to repair a divided community and to take the good bits of 4th and 3rd, stick them together and get something awesome.
Personally, I've always thought that all those polls in the columns and waxing on about the history of D&D has been early market research.  You know, asking us what we like and what we don't like, bouncing a few new ideas off the wall, etc.  Figuring out what would be the best received framework for 5e.  In short, I personally believe that they're just beginning to plan 5e.  It'll take a while to work it out.  If I'm right, it's still a year or more off.  Probably more.
Just another idle internet rumor.  Ignore it.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Like I said before, if you say "5e is right around the corner!" enough times, you'll be right eventually. 
With the established online update procedure, there never has to be a 5e (even extensive change, like revamping either the skill or combat systems can be done this way).  They can just dump it in as an update.  People will even buy the new rules books because it's more convenient to do that than it is to print up the update and annotate your old book with references to the update.
There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

Information has been leaked about a number of WotC projects before release regardless of NDA in the past. Not a clue about this particular case, but if Weiss trusts the source of information, I'm rather inclined to believe her.



Indeed.  If it were just a random internet rumour, I'd just dismiss it out-of-hand.  But I put a bit of trust in Margaret Weis' word on the matter.

Of course, I don't expect that WotC would confirm it at this time.  As another poster said, doing so would cause quite a furor from those who are silly enough to believe that the current edition will last forever despite past evidence to the contrary.  I imagine that the earliest we'll even hear of it officially if it's just now getting started is late 2013.
At least I have my proper avatar now, I guess. But man is this cloud dark.
What, exactly, makes Margaret Weis' word so trustworthy?

For that matter, who the Hell, Michigan is Margaret Weis?
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
What, exactly, makes Margaret Weis' word so trustworthy?

For that matter, who the Hell, Michigan is Margaret Weis?


IDK.  Maybe she's the Matrix.

There are a dozen other writers we could assume have inside knowledge because they wrote books for D&D settings.  Salvatore, the person who wrote I, Strahd, and plenty of others.
There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

What, exactly, makes Margaret Weis' word so trustworthy?

For that matter, who the Hell, Michigan is Margaret Weis?



She is one of the creators of the Dragonlance setting.  She has written several NYT Bestsellers for that setting and other books.  I have a lot of respect for her, but she hasn't worked at WotC/TSR in several years now though, and this boils down to a Friend-of-a-Friend type rumor.  She is no longer in the loop when it comes to D&D.
CORE MORE, NOT CORE BORE!
What, exactly, makes Margaret Weis' word so trustworthy?

For that matter, who the Hell, Michigan is Margaret Weis?



She is one of the creators of the Dragonlance setting.  She has written several NYT Bestsellers for that setting and other books.  I have a lot of respect for her, but she hasn't worked at WotC/TSR in several years now though, and this boils down to a Friend-of-a-Friend type rumor.  She is no longer in the loop when it comes to D&D.



So ... why do we care what she says, again?
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
What, exactly, makes Margaret Weis' word so trustworthy?

For that matter, who the Hell, Michigan is Margaret Weis?



She is one of the creators of the Dragonlance setting.  She has written several NYT Bestsellers for that setting and other books.  I have a lot of respect for her, but she hasn't worked at WotC/TSR in several years now though, and this boils down to a Friend-of-a-Friend type rumor.  She is no longer in the loop when it comes to D&D.



So ... why do we care what she says, again?



In this case, we don't.  Again, she hasn't written a Dragonlance book in several years now.  She hasn't been an employee of WotC/TSR for years.  She is not in the know anymore.  Had she said she talked to Monte Cook, a friend of hers, and said he told her that he was working on 5E, then this rumor might have some traction.  And even then, that would make Monte Cook one of the dumbest employees in the history of the game because he would have violated his NDA, which would get him fired AND probably sued at best.


Sorry, not biting on this rumor.  
CORE MORE, NOT CORE BORE!
I think it's pretty obvious they are in early development of 5th Ed (I'm thinking it will be released around 2013), what with Essentials, these Monte articles/polls, and the product schedule for next year (reeks of latter day 3rd Ed).

I'm hoping for less expected magic items (and no +X), feats to be toned down (no +X), no feat taxes (no-brainers), drop superior weapons, and of course, solve the attacks vs. defences issue people are so upset about (I would also like to see daily powers go). 

Know this will probably go down as an unreliable source, but a certain game designer who will remain nameless (mainly because I think he's a prick and don't care to remember his name no matter how many times I've heard it) came in to my FLGS last Saturday night and started rattling on about how he had heard first hand from a couple of his buddies at WotC that this was actually happening, and that Cook is indeed at the head of the development team.


Honestly, this seems like what my friend referst to as an "Obama mistake."  They're trying to bring back some of their old player base by having Monte Cook come in and write the old edition, but unless 5ed is going to be exactly like 3.5, and all of their old books become usable again, I doubt even a quarter of these customers will be coming back.

I think WOTC has finally decide they have screwed up 4th ed so much it is time to move on. The thought of bringing Cooke back does not impress me much as I hated the whole 3rd and 3.5 editions. When they dropped this edition I had hope for the game but now I will just go play The One Ring or another rpg and just be done with Wizards.
This is a hot load of BS. Just how many times can they try to reinvent the wheel. You roll dice, you beat up mosters, you collect treasure. I've oversimplified it I know but seriously when you get right down to the core just how different can it be.
I think WOTC has finally decide they have screwed up 4th ed so much it is time to move on. The thought of bringing Cooke back does not impress me much as I hated the whole 3rd and 3.5 editions. When they dropped this edition I had hope for the game but now I will just go play The One Ring or another rpg and just be done with Wizards.



1. if they  think they screwed it up then why are they investing so many products, software and play programs?

2. if you are done with wizards why are you posting on their forums?

3. you appear to dislike alot of RPGs, maybe this just isnt your thing. like egg thallid just said, your going to play through a long narrative, decide actions, roll dice and add modifiers to determine if  that action succeeded its not like its any diffrent if you played pathfinder, 1st-4th, the one ring, or any other tabletop game system. 


shakes head.


unconfirmed un reliable.

I would stop putting out 4e books and just erratta the rules if Iwere doing it.
( excludes novels)
5e comes out, modify current unreleased stuff to 5e and wala quick fluffy crunch for 5e.


        

a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
I'm hoping for less expected magic items (and no +X), feats to be toned down (no +X), no feat taxes (no-brainers), drop superior weapons, and of course, solve the attacks vs. defences issue people are so upset about (I would also like to see daily powers go). 



I agree with a lot of these things, particularly the first bit.  Don't get me wrong, I love 4th Edition, particularly with the concept of the racial feats (making race relevant for reasons other than +2 here or there).  But the fact of the matter is that magic items were more unique in 3rd Edition.

The bit about daily powers, however, I'm not so sure.  I think having a sort of once-per-day desperation attack can be mighty useful.  What exactly don't you like about the daily attacks? 
My opinion is the ultimate proof will be a "sabbatical year". Do you rebember the last titles of 3.5 Ed?

If 5th Ed. is announced to 2013 wouldn´t be a surprise for me, because today usually a rpg line is nearly five or six years.

I say it again. Now I can play D&D 4th ed by facebook game D&D: Heroes of Newerwinter. It´s fun but when  I buy books I want get ideas to create characters and plot, and giving special or exotic touch to my PCs (like familiars, mounts or animal companions). I don´t buy a soucerbook to get a boring list of powers about moving x spaces. Today I can use wikipedia to get inspiration about background (old movies and novels9, and I have got a great list of feats and spells from my books I bougth.

I don´t want lots of prestige classes or parangon path but cool archetypes. I don´t want more feats and powers but special mechanic game to feel my PC is dfiferent. I wish complete list of monster sidesisck (wizards´s familiar, ranger´s animal companion, paladin´s mount), monsters PCs races (what if I want my hobgobling are klingon-like people?) monsters classes (all dragons).. I want all the werebeats and all true dragons (too from Spelljammer).

I want a new d20 Modern, and a D&D to can be played without miniatures.

"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius 

Are you folks really surprised?

Why do you think they re-hired Monte Cook?  To sit there and write a blog post every two weeks?

And moreover, all these blogs talking about design principles rather than actual crunch for the game?

And the really slow product schedule, with ancillary products like "Heroes of the Feywild' and the "Book of Vile Darkness"?

They're clearly in the weird, experimental product portion of the edition cycle, and they're so obviously gearing up for 5e you'd have to be plugging your ears with your fingers and screaming "la la la" to miss it.  Which is a lot of what's going on in this thread.
Are you folks really surprised?

Why do you think they re-hired Monte Cook?  To sit there and write a blog post every two weeks?

And moreover, all these blogs talking about design principles rather than actual crunch for the game?

And the really slow product schedule, with ancillary products like "Heroes of the Feywild' and the "Book of Vile Darkness"?

They're clearly in the weird, experimental product portion of the edition cycle, and they're so obviously gearing up for 5e you'd have to be plugging your ears with your fingers and screaming "la la la" to miss it.  Which is a lot of what's going on in this thread.



I agree with you.  On all things but the "la la la" note.  I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt to those who disagree and assume that they'd prefer to work with confirmed facts than speculation.  Because even though I agree with your conclusion, that conclusion is still speculation, not cold hard fact.  If I choose to see the best in both sides, it's not a matter of ignoring the truth, but failing to see a point in idle speculation combined with exhaustion with the doomsayers who've been (wrongly) talking about the end of 4e for years now.  In the end, our "proof" of 5e coming is just a bunch of suspicions based on anecdotal evidence.  We may believe it, but that's not fact yet.
I believe that everyone should become familiar with "lex parsimoniae"

It would be my supposition that Monte was hired to fill a slot.  A slot that was open due to layoffs, employees leaving and others being promoted.
What, exactly, makes Margaret Weis' word so trustworthy?

For that matter, who the Hell, Michigan is Margaret Weis?



She is one of the creators of the Dragonlance setting.  She has written several NYT Bestsellers for that setting and other books.  I have a lot of respect for her, but she hasn't worked at WotC/TSR in several years now though, and this boils down to a Friend-of-a-Friend type rumor.  She is no longer in the loop when it comes to D&D.



And you know she's not in the loop how? Do you have her bugged so you can confirm this?
Are you folks really surprised?

Why do you think they re-hired Monte Cook?  To sit there and write a blog post every two weeks?

And moreover, all these blogs talking about design principles rather than actual crunch for the game?

And the really slow product schedule, with ancillary products like "Heroes of the Feywild' and the "Book of Vile Darkness"?

They're clearly in the weird, experimental product portion of the edition cycle, and they're so obviously gearing up for 5e you'd have to be plugging your ears with your fingers and screaming "la la la" to miss it.  Which is a lot of what's going on in this thread.



How dare you bring some logic into this discussion?
Not sure what to say here, besides my timetable is proving entirely accurate.
Not sure what to say here, besides my timetable is proving entirely accurate.




D&D 5ed is 2013? I think Monte is going to have a bit more time to work on it than 20 months...  

"Ah, the age-old conundrum. Defenders of a game are too blind to see it's broken, and critics are too idiotic to see that it isn't." - Brian McCormick

You're talking 2-3 years of development, then a year or 2 of playtesting and fine tuning, etc. Puts us around 2016 or so. Roughly the same age as 3e was when it was replaced.
You're talking 2-3 years of development, then a year or 2 of playtesting and fine tuning, etc...



lol, no.
I wonder.... I say I have got a doubt, a question.... Today RPGs are tested by videogame? If you use software to play lots of combats PCs vs monster you can know sooner the balance of power. Can´t you? Wouldn´t you use computers to testing new rules and powers and saving time?

If 5th edition is nearly 2013. What about official D&D videogames? The next computer games (like the future MMO of Newerwinter)...will be 4th or 5th ed. system? I think videogames are a very big influence to D&D, Baldruc Gate was to 3rd, Newerwinter to 4th and I suppose the current videogames to the future 5th edition.


If 5th is coming soon... we can´t bring foward it or make it late, because it is decision by WotC and discussing about the date is a waste of time. It´s better if we talk about how we would like it was.  


* If there is a 5th Ed.. relatively soon. What book would I buy? I don´t want "cards of powers" but "virtual toys", I want stats of PCs  and monster to play by my imagination, in my mind. I want help to create stories and worlds of fantasy (and sci-fi too). I want when I am creating my PC is special, different of the rest. I wish, for example, my knight PC isn´t only a warrior with different powers, but its own style of fighting (a code of honor, rules about vows and oath, duty to challenging strongest foe and special bonus by chosen cavalry order  or ninja PC isn´t a change or variationn of  thief/rogue (or a mixture of rogue and monk) with exclusive feats but it has got its special mechanic and tricks (like smoke bombs and some ki powers).



        


"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius 

You're talking 2-3 years of development, then a year or 2 of playtesting and fine tuning, etc...



lol, no.



lol yes.

this is how they put out 4e, 3e and AD&D. they have to design from the ground up you cant throw these together in 2 years while managing books, ddi, the in store playprograms (encounters & lair assault), books they have planned until 2013 and other projects.

if you think that 2013 they will have another edition on the shelves, you need to think critically or go take a buisness class. if the article above is accurate (and i highly doubt this) then they would of theoretically began when the product slowdown began around september last year.

you want to think that doubters are closing their eyes, plugging their ears and singing "lalalala" but if you believe everything you read you are a far greater fool. think for yourself.  
You're talking 2-3 years of development, then a year or 2 of playtesting and fine tuning, etc...



lol, no.



lol yes.

this is how they put out 4e, 3e and AD&D. they have to design from the ground up you cant throw these together in 2 years while managing books, ddi, the in store playprograms (encounters & lair assault), books they have planned until 2013 and other projects.

if you think that 2013 they will have another edition on the shelves, you need to think critically or go take a buisness class. if the article above is accurate (and i highly doubt this) then they would of theoretically began when the product slowdown began around september last year.

you want to think that doubters are closing their eyes, plugging their ears and singing "lalalala" but if you believe everything you read you are a far greater fool. think for yourself.  



Unless you work for Wizards of the Coast you are have no idea how long 5th edition is in the works, if it even is in the works.

Right now, even though they are rumours, it is more evidence that something could be in the works than what the naysayers have. Show me something from someone respectable saying that 5th edition isn't in the works or it's a long way off and then you may have a leg to stand on.
this is how they put out 4e, 3e and AD&D.


No, it isn't.

3e was put together in under 2 years, including playtesting, which is why it was so buggy.  They began work on 3.5 within months after 3.0 was released, and released it after 3 years.  4e also had about 3 years of development, including playtesting.  Three years is the norm.

AD&D was playtested by the local gaming groups of the writers.  TSR was too small in the 1970's to have an actual process for development and playtesting.  I'm not sure what process went into 2e, but development began in 1987, and it was released in 1989 -- 2 years.

If Monte Cook was hired to work on 5e, then I expect it will come out in three years: 2014, in time for the 40th anniversary of D&D, and will probably be announced at GenCon for release in time for the Christmas season, probably December 2014.

4e's first product was released in December 2007.  12/07 - 12/14, that makes 7 years. 
3e's first product was released in August 2000.  08/00 - 12/07 is 7 years, 4 months. 
2e's first product was released in August 1989.  08/89 - 05/98 is 8 years, 9 months.
1e's first product was released in June 1978.  06/78 - 11/88 is 10 years, 5 months.

1e and 2e each would have each lasted about seven years, if not for turmoil within TSR management.  Gygax was ousted in 1985 (7 years into 1e), and prevented from issuing a new edition (his notes comprised a lot of what became Unearthed Arcana).  Zeb Cook was told to turn his notes for 3e into what became the Player Option series in 1995 (only 6 years into 2e!).

So seven years seems about right for edition changes. 
You're talking 2-3 years of development, then a year or 2 of playtesting and fine tuning, etc...



lol, no.





To release brand new edition in 2013, that would mean that development started almost immediately after the release of 4e.

There will be a 5e. That is inevitable. If they plan on having it be a functional system, it wouldn't be out so soon.

I expect the next edition to be less of an overhaul, and will look a lot more like 1e to 2e.